Chatlog 2010-04-27

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13:51:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:51:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/27-sparql-irc
13:51:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:51:51 <AxelPolleres> zakim, thi will be SPARQL
13:51:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'thi will be SPARQL', AxelPolleres
13:52:00 <AxelPolleres> zakim, this will be sparql
13:52:00 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
13:56:28 <dcharbon2> dcharbon2 has joined #sparql
13:57:00 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
13:57:31 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:57:38 <Zakim> +??P1
13:57:41 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is me
13:57:41 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
13:58:33 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby
13:58:39 <Zakim> +pgearon
13:58:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa
13:58:50 <MattPerry> zakim, aaaa is me
13:58:50 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
13:59:27 <Zakim> +bglimm
14:00:04 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aabb
14:00:15 <kasei> Zakim, aabb is me
14:00:15 <Zakim> +kasei; got it
14:00:25 <SteveH_> SteveH_ has joined #sparql
14:00:33 <Zakim> +dcharbon2
14:01:09 <Zakim> + +04312aacc
14:01:12 <Zakim> +[Garlik]
14:01:26 <SteveH_> Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily SteveH
14:01:26 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:01:27 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm, kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH
14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> Agenda... http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-04-27
14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> Regrets: Souripriya, LeeF
14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> chair: Axel Polleres
14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Olivier Corby
14:02:15 <kasei> very loud typing
14:02:33 <Zakim> + +1.216.636.aadd
14:02:37 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:02:37 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:02:51 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aadd is Chime
14:02:51 <Zakim> +Chime; got it
14:03:17 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:03:34 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
14:03:39 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-20
14:03:56 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-20
14:04:43 <OlivierCorby> Next F2F location ?
14:05:18 <OlivierCorby> Colocate with TPAC in Lyon France ?
14:06:00 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:06:00 <Zakim> sorry, chimezie, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:06:01 <bglimm> When is the TPAC in Lyon?
14:06:14 <AndyS> November 1-5 
14:06:16 <SteveH_> I can't do those dates
14:06:26 <kasei> not impossible, but I suspect unlikely that I'd be able to make it.
14:06:27 <SteveH_> I can do 1-3
14:06:36 <chimezie> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:06:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, Chime
14:06:39 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:06:44 <bglimm> Should be ok
14:06:47 <AndyS> ISWC is Nov 7-11
14:06:48 <chimezie> Zakim, Chime is me
14:06:48 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it
14:07:04 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/05/sparql-phase-II-charter.html
14:07:37 <SteveH_> I hope that we don't need a F2F by nov...
14:07:46 <AndyS> What is the timescale? LC, CR etc?
14:07:53 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:07:53 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:08:12 <OlivierCorby> Do we need a F2F before Nov ?
14:08:28 <bglimm> It probably depends on how many/what kind of comments we get during LC
14:08:33 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/05/sparql-phase-II-charter.html#milestones
14:09:49 <OlivierCorby> Last Call in June
14:10:04 <AndyS> Unlikely.
14:11:20 <OlivierCorby> Last Call without F2F ?
14:11:55 <AxelPolleres> we might be able to do without another f2f2, before LC is unlikely planningwise.
14:13:01 <AxelPolleres> andyS; we might just block some solid time rather than all needing to travel.
14:13:23 <AxelPolleres> ... specifical telecons and realistic deadlines.
14:13:45 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:13:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, chimezie (muted)
14:14:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec
14:14:04 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - come
14:14:15 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec
14:14:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-226 - Come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-05-04].
14:14:42 <bglimm> there was a comment by Kjetil
14:14:49 <OlivierCorby> Comment handling: not tody
14:14:57 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:14:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, chimezie (muted)
14:15:01 <OlivierCorby> s/tody/today
14:15:13 <OlivierCorby> Liaisons
14:15:22 <OlivierCorby> RIF to PR
14:15:25 <AxelPolleres> RIF decided to move to PR
14:15:25 <AxelPolleres> summary: we have to decide re-schedule to LC and Rec, need for further f2f among chairs soon 
14:15:51 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:15:51 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:16:04 <AxelPolleres> topic: actions from last time on rewordings
14:16:06 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html
14:16:16 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:16:26 <bglimm> Each SPARQL extension MUST provide conditions, which guarantee
14:16:26 <bglimm>      that the set of triples obtained by instantiating BGP with each
14:16:27 <bglimm>      solution μ is uniquely specified up to RDF graph equivalence, and
14:16:27 <bglimm>      SHOULD provide further conditions to prevent trivial infinite answers
14:16:27 <bglimm>      as appropriate to the regime.
14:17:26 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Accept rewording for condition 4 for BGP extensions as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html
14:17:52 <bglimm> +1
14:17:56 <AxelPolleres> +1
14:17:57 <chimezie> +1
14:18:00 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Accept rewording for condition 4 for BGP extensions as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html
14:18:39 <AndyS> It's already done.
14:18:49 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:18:49 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:18:50 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/222
14:18:59 <bglimm> I already updated the entailment doc too to reflect the rewording
14:19:07 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile
14:19:07 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:19:09 <Zakim> +EricP
14:19:16 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:19:16 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:20:32 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0067.html
14:21:26 <AxelPolleres>  ISSUE-49: can this  be closed wrt. rewording proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0067.html?
14:21:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-49 Is a graph an information resource notes added
14:23:11 <OlivierCorby> Question about URI with fragment
14:23:23 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to clarify question about URIs with fragment ids
14:23:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-227 - Clarify question about URIs with fragment ids [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-05-04].
14:24:31 <kasei> after reading that email, i'm still not sure which way we've resolved issue 49.
14:25:04 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: close issue-49 with rewording from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0067.html and ACTION-227
14:25:15 <kasei> q+
14:27:13 <kasei> before we resolve issue 49, could we see a draft response to KjetilK's comment email?
14:25:04 <AxelPolleres> summary: ISSUE-49 remains open, should probably be closed upon ACTION-227 been completed.
14:27:16 <AxelPolleres> topic: federated query document
14:27:18 <kasei> (after ericP)
14:27:26 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:27:33 <kasei> q-
14:28:41 <AxelPolleres> ericP: explains rationale behind SERVICE keyword
14:28:47 <OlivierCorby> Integrate service into query syntax
14:30:20 <kasei> ericP, link?
14:30:52 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service.xml
14:31:25 <AndyS> 4.2 link is "#update"  !!!!
14:32:24 <AxelPolleres> Eric: what about conformance, do we want all SPARQL implementations to support this?
14:33:09 <AxelPolleres> Axel: does this really raise the bar?
14:33:31 <OlivierCorby> q+
14:34:32 <AxelPolleres> olivier: syntax has URI , could we also have variable?
14:34:36 <AndyS> Grammar has variable : VarOrIRIref
14:34:59 <AxelPolleres> ericP: might have use cases
14:35:24 <AxelPolleres> ... for asking all endpoints I know.
14:35:24 <kasei> I see grammar having just IRIref...?
14:35:52 <AxelPolleres> andy: we could assure that at point of evaluation the variable needs to be bound
14:35:59 <AxelPolleres> s/assure/require/
14:36:42 <AxelPolleres> ericP: question is what interoperability we rerquire on behavior of that feature (variables for SERVICE)
14:36:57 <AxelPolleres> ... but raises the bar for implementers possibly.
14:37:12 <kasei> q+ to note that if SERVICE isn't required of 1.1 implementation, we should have a service description feature URI for it.
14:37:31 <AxelPolleres> ack OlivierCorby
14:38:09 <AxelPolleres> ack kasei
14:38:09 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to note that if SERVICE isn't required of 1.1 implementation, we should have a service description feature URI for it.
14:39:40 <AxelPolleres> axel: let's publish it with the next round, similar to property paths, as separate doc, requesting for comments.
14:40:22 <SteveH_> lots of background noise
14:41:03 <kasei> i like the variable idea, but it fills me with The Fear
14:41:29 <SteveH_> +1 to kasei 
14:41:32 <AxelPolleres> axel: Option 1 : no variables, Option 2 is any variables,� Option 3 bound only variables
14:41:54 <SteveH_> what does "bound only" mean?
14:41:55 <AndyS> +1 to option 1
14:41:56 <dcharbon2> Option 1 - could relax later if needed/desired
14:41:58 <MattPerry> +1 for no variables
14:41:59 <AndyS> opps
14:42:01 <SteveH_> leaning to no variables though
14:42:02 <AndyS> +1 to option 2
14:42:04 <pgearon> +1 no variables
14:42:12 <chimezie> +0
14:42:19 <bglimm> 0 (no clear understanding of the implications)
14:42:23 <kasei> +1 to option 1 (leave variables as an extentions people can implement)
14:42:25 <OlivierCorby> 2 or 3
14:42:31 <AxelPolleres> +1 to Option 1 (with Option 3 sounding interesting, but not sure about doable in time)
14:43:06 <AndyS> opt 3 is meaningless in the current doc BTW join(A,B) == join(B,A)
14:45:21 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: ericP to put in an editor's note discussing bound only variables
14:45:21 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ericP
14:45:42 <AxelPolleres> ACTION:  eric to put in an editor's note discussing bound only variables
14:45:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-228 - Put in an editor's note discussing bound only variables [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2010-05-04].
14:46:47 <AxelPolleres> summary: in principle we want to publish fed queries as separate doc in the next round.  
14:46:57 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:47:07 <ericP> caio all!
14:47:17 <OlivierCorby> topic : Publication
14:47:18 <Zakim> -EricP
14:47:28 <AxelPolleres> topic: next publications
14:48:25 <AxelPolleres> query?
14:48:33 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:49:03 <AxelPolleres> ack aacc
14:49:05 <SteveH_> q=
14:49:10 <SteveH_> queue=
14:49:19 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aacc is me
14:49:19 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
14:49:27 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:49:27 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:50:58 <AxelPolleres> andy to resenc summary to the list.
14:51:02 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0085.html
14:51:44 <AxelPolleres> query seems to progress well enough to warrant another publication
14:51:53 <AxelPolleres> update?
14:52:35 <AndyS> syntax?
14:52:56 <AxelPolleres> paul: changes can be in the doc by the end of the week.
14:53:33 <AxelPolleres> ... which would include all the F2F discussed changes.
14:54:15 <AxelPolleres> andy: update syntax needs to be pinned down.
14:55:32 <AxelPolleres> paul please reply to the list with a summary
14:55:48 <AxelPolleres> entailment?
14:57:10 <AxelPolleres> changes in the conditions and for LC we'd need to fix whether we want Datatype only entailment (currently a note), basically ready for review
14:58:49 <AxelPolleres> greg: chasing sandro for fixing final issue before ready to review.
14:58:56 <kasei> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0082.html
14:59:03 <AxelPolleres> that was service description.
14:59:38 <AxelPolleres> http-update
14:59:57 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE-20, ISSUE-49 need to be addressed.
15:00:48 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE-20 is closed by f2f3
15:00:56 <AxelPolleres> so the note can be removed.
15:01:22 <bglimm> Should I remove the closed issues from the related issues section of the document?
15:01:29 <AxelPolleres> propertypaths?
15:02:03 <AxelPolleres> currently a placeholder pointing to the document. will be included time allowed for next publication round.
15:02:43 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:02:46 <MattPerry> bye
15:02:50 <AxelPolleres> adjourned.
15:02:50 <Zakim> -dcharbon2
15:02:53 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:02:55 <Zakim> -bglimm
15:02:57 <Zakim> -chimezie
15:02:58 <Zakim> -kasei
15:02:58 <Zakim> -MattPerry
15:02:59 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
15:02:59 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
15:03:04 <Zakim> -pgearon
15:03:06 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:03:08 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, +1.603.897.aaaa, MattPerry, bglimm, +1.310.729.aabb, kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, +1.216.636.aadd, chimezie, EricP,
15:03:11 <Zakim> ... AxelPolleres
15:03:30 <OlivierCorby> OlivierCorby has left #sparql
15:03:32 <AxelPolleres> summary: all editors to resend their status summary to the list, please try to get to reviewable status by next week.
15:03:36 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
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