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Chatlog 2012-02-07
From SPARQL Working Group
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14:59:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql 14:59:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-irc 14:59:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:59:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql 14:59:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277 14:59:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute 14:59:22 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference 14:59:22 <trackbot> Date: 07 February 2012 14:59:36 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting 14:59:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'start meeting', AndyS 14:59:47 <AndyS> zakim, this is 77277 14:59:47 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM 15:00:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a] 15:00:20 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me 15:00:20 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 15:00:32 <Zakim> +??P15 15:00:35 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P15 is me 15:00:35 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it 15:00:37 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql 15:00:39 <swh> swh has joined #sparql 15:00:42 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aaaa 15:00:56 <Olivier_> Zakim, aaaa is me 15:00:56 <Zakim> +Olivier_; got it 15:01:10 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb 15:01:21 <MattPerry> zakim, aabb is me 15:01:21 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it 15:01:41 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone? 15:01:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, kasei, [IPcaller.a], cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry 15:02:13 <alexpassant> Zakim, IPcaller.a is me 15:02:13 <Zakim> +alexpassant; got it 15:03:17 <swh_> swh_ has joined #sparql 15:03:19 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql 15:03:22 <Zakim> + +49.897.aacc 15:03:31 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql 15:03:34 <Zakim> + +44.020.843.9.aadd 15:03:40 <swh_> Zakim, aadd is me 15:03:40 <Zakim> +swh_; got it 15:03:41 <AndyS> Alex - I'm you! Will flip. 15:03:44 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone 15:03:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AxelPolleres 15:03:49 <AndyS> zkiam, IPCaller.a is me 15:03:51 <alexpassant> Zakim, AndyS is me 15:03:54 <Zakim> +alexpassant; got it 15:03:59 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller.a is me 15:04:02 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller.a' 15:04:04 <swh> voip not working for me today, had to call US 15:04:07 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller.a is me 15:04:07 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller.a' 15:04:09 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:04:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant.a, kasei, alexpassant, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, +49.897.aacc, swh_ 15:04:20 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aacc is probably me 15:04:20 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres?; got it 15:04:21 <Zakim> -alexpassant 15:04:36 <alexpassant> Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:04:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant.a, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh_ 15:04:37 <alexpassant> I'm here 15:04:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 15:04:43 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me 15:04:43 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 15:04:46 <alexpassant> sure 15:04:51 <alexpassant> Zakim: alexpassant.a is me 15:04:57 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Alexpassant 15:05:01 <alexpassant> Zakim, alexpassant.a is me 15:05:01 <Zakim> +alexpassant; got it 15:05:05 <AxelPolleres> chair: axelPolleres 15:05:22 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-02-07 15:05:41 <swh> Zakim, swh_ is me 15:05:41 <Zakim> +swh; got it 15:06:18 <swh> AxelPolleres, BTW, the UK number on the agenda no longer works 15:06:27 <AxelPolleres> regrets: Lee, sandro 15:06:56 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to mail sandro about loss of UK number 15:06:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-586 - Mail sandro about loss of UK number [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-02-14]. 15:07:06 <alexpassant> french number seems also down 15:07:10 <alexpassant> topic: admin 15:07:13 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin 15:07:28 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-31 15:07:35 <Olivier_> french phone number does not work 15:08:21 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-31 15:08:23 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: no comments about last minutes 15:08:27 <alexpassant> … approving minutes 15:08:38 <AxelPolleres> Next regular meeting: 2012-02-14 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST 15:08:39 <alexpassant> … next meeting in a week 15:08:46 <Olivier_> regrets for next week 15:08:57 <cbuilara> regrets for next week too 15:09:26 <AxelPolleres> nicholas or steve to scribe next time 15:09:28 <alexpassant> … scribe will be SteveH 15:09:39 <AxelPolleres> topic: RDF liaison 15:09:44 <alexpassant> … liaison with RDF WG 15:09:50 <alexpassant> AndyS: several things to report 15:09:57 <alexpassant> … first one is about QUADS 15:10:02 <alexpassant> … proposed to adopt TRIG to dump RDF stores 15:10:17 <alexpassant> … one issue is that the WG is not decided if QUADS will be used for NG 15:10:27 <alexpassant> … may lead to 2 architectures for named graphs in W3C 15:11:51 <alexpassant> … no decision yet 15:12:26 <AxelPolleres> topic: comments 15:12:28 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql 15:12:36 <AndyS> I updated the comments: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments 15:12:37 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: 2 pending comments 15:12:45 <alexpassant> … one already discussed on the list 15:12:49 <AxelPolleres> JP-4 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0009.html 15:12:49 <AndyS> 7 LC comments 15:12:52 <alexpassant> … JP-4 15:13:02 <alexpassant> … would like to open discussion about it 15:14:27 <alexpassant> AndyS: bglimm discussed issues between properties path and entailment 15:14:33 <alexpassant> … may be marked as optional feature 15:14:39 <bglimm> I wrote an email about it just before the teleconf: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0128.html 15:15:04 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: no option to mark something as optional. 15:15:13 <alexpassant> … can be not normative / informative, not sure there's other alternative 15:16:10 <alexpassant> AndyS: clash between styles, more UC-driven versus computational-theory background 15:19:17 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: should probably answer that 1) we value their work to point the issue and give options for optimization 2) tone that down for CR version of their paper 15:21:39 <alexpassant> … their paper propose an orthogonal way to look at property path 15:22:39 <AndyS> DISTINCT(:p*) 15:22:48 <AndyS> :q/DISTINCT(:p*)/:r 15:23:03 <AndyS> ?x :q/DISTINCT(:p*)/:r ?z . 15:24:03 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aaee 15:24:09 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone? 15:24:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh, AndyS, +1.216.368.aaee 15:24:16 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.368.aaee is me 15:24:16 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it 15:24:18 <kasei> I agree with AndyS about defaulting to the counting semantics 15:24:21 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me 15:24:21 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted 15:25:09 <AxelPolleres> q? 15:25:31 <alexpassant> Olivier_: may have a DISTINCT keyword in the path. could help to solve the problem 15:25:45 <alexpassant> … could also build artificial queries w/o path that are very expensive 15:26:20 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:26:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh, AndyS, chimezie (muted) 15:26:23 <alexpassant> I haven't checked the issue in detail 15:26:40 <swh> FWIW I read the mail, but haven't implemented PPs, so no real opinion 15:27:12 <cbuilara> Ihavent checked the email in detail 15:27:29 <AxelPolleres> Strawpoll... We keep defaulting to counting paths semantics (+1) 15:27:35 <swh> 0 15:27:36 <kasei> +1 15:27:38 <MattPerry> +1 15:27:44 <cbuilara> 0 15:27:51 <alexpassant> 0 15:27:51 <chimezie> 0 (not very well swapped into issue(s)) 15:27:55 <bglimm> 0 (not being able to follow the spoken discussion) 15:28:08 <AndyS> +1 15:28:22 <AndyS> Also - issue about another LC cycle. 15:28:24 <AxelPolleres> 0 15:28:49 <Olivier_> 0 need to think about it more 15:29:05 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: no one strongly to change the default behavior 15:29:24 <kasei> are we discussing adding the DISTINCT(pp) thing in 1.1? or just leaving it open for the future? 15:29:36 <AxelPolleres> Andy: Another LC cycle is anyways necessary if we change the grammar 15:30:11 <chimezie> i would like to be swapped in, just didn't find the time to read the email(s) in detail - so inclined to concur with WG 15:31:23 <AxelPolleres> probably discuss with team contacts whether this is still possible in our current schedule 15:34:49 <AxelPolleres> Option 1... keep everything as it is in the grammar, and explain which DISTINCT path subqueries can be optimized, Option 2 ... add DISTINCT around paths. 15:35:52 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to summarize option 1 and 2 in email 15:35:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-587 - Summarize option 1 and 2 in email [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-02-14]. 15:36:04 <AxelPolleres> we strive for a decision next week. 15:37:06 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: next comment MO-1 15:37:07 <AxelPolleres> next one: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0010.html 15:37:11 <kasei> Andy suggested new wording: "sd:availableGraphs Relates an instance of sd:Service to a description of the __usable__ graphs where the service limits the scope of the construction of a dataset either via the SPARQL Protocol, with FROM/FROM NAMED clauses in a query, or with USING/USING NAMED in an update request." 15:38:42 <kasei> ("__usable__" wording is mine) 15:38:45 <AndyS> I'm +1 to reply whether SD doc changes and leave the decision to the editor. 15:38:54 <AndyS> I'm +1 to reply whether SD doc changes or not and leave the decision to the editor. 15:38:57 <AxelPolleres> "allowed?" 15:39:26 <alexpassant> kasei: will make change about wording if everyone is ok 15:39:39 <kasei> current wording: "Relates an instance of <a href="#sd-Service"><code>sd:Service</code></a> to a description of the graphs that may be used in the construction of a dataset either via the SPARQL Protocol, with FROM/FROM NAMED clauses in a query, or with USING/USING NAMED in an update request." 15:42:21 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: kasei to draft a reply to MO-1 with better wording to the list 15:42:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-588 - Draft a reply to MO-1 with better wording to the list [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-02-14]. 15:42:58 <AxelPolleres> topic: test cases/implementations 15:43:00 <AndyS> q+ to note action 579 15:43:02 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/ 15:45:13 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Andy to ping lee on ACTION-579 and in case draft a respective mail to comments/dev lists 15:45:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-589 - Ping lee on ACTION-579 and in case draft a respective mail to comments/dev lists [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-02-14]. 15:45:15 <AndyS> ack me 15:45:15 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to note action 579 15:46:58 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists01-http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists05 15:47:07 <kasei> +1 15:47:08 <AxelPolleres> +! 15:47:12 <AxelPolleres> +1 15:47:13 <Olivier_> +1 15:47:15 <AndyS> +1 15:47:17 <MattPerry> +1 15:47:25 <chimezie> +1 15:47:31 <swh> + 15:47:33 <swh> +1 15:47:44 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists01-http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists05 15:48:02 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: next topic : update TC 15:48:10 <alexpassant> … discussion on COPY and MOVE 15:49:39 <alexpassant> … can approve all TC except COPY-5 and MOVE-5 15:50:14 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move05 and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy05 15:50:22 <kasei> +1 15:50:26 <MattPerry> +1 15:52:00 <swh> I'm not confident about MOVE COPY at the moment 15:52:38 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move?? and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy?? 15:52:48 <AxelPolleres> +1 15:53:03 <kasei> +1 15:53:04 <Olivier_> +1 15:53:06 <MattPerry> +1 15:53:10 <AxelPolleres> +1 15:53:14 <AndyS> +1 15:53:35 <alexpassant> +1 15:53:36 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move?? and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy?? 15:53:58 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:53:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh, AndyS, chimezie (muted) 15:54:34 <AxelPolleres> can we approve json-res/manifest#jsonres01 15:55:09 <kasei> I have no idea why we didn't approve it before, but that certainly seems like it would be relevant... 15:56:58 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-16#resolution_2 16:00:18 <AndyS> kasei, the triple for non-classified wasn't removed. Will fix. 16:00:24 <AndyS> kasei: the triple for non-classified wasn't removed. Will fix. 16:01:43 <Zakim> -swh 16:01:58 <MattPerry> bye 16:01:58 <Zakim> -chimezie 16:02:02 <AndyS> ADJOURNED 16:02:06 <Zakim> -cbuilara 16:02:07 <Zakim> -Olivier_ 16:02:08 <Zakim> -MattPerry 16:02:09 <Zakim> -alexpassant 16:02:13 <Zakim> -AndyS 16:02:16 <AxelPolleres> we'll discuss the copy and move test cases next week and I'll drop paul a mail where he is regarding the update rewording. 16:02:17 <Zakim> -kasei 16:02:40 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres 16:02:41 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended 16:02:41 <Zakim> Attendees were kasei, cbuilara, +33.4.92.38.aaaa, Olivier_, +1.603.897.aabb, MattPerry, alexpassant, +49.897.aacc, +44.020.843.9.aadd, AxelPolleres, AndyS, swh, chimezie 16:02:44 <kasei> I'll update the test manifests with the new approval status. 16:02:48 <alexpassant> RRSAgent: make minutes 16:02:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html alexpassant 17:45:10 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql 17:55:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sparql 18:08:55 <kasei> are there minutes from today's meeting? 18:46:57 <alex> alex has joined #sparql 20:01:00 <swh> swh has joined #sparql 20:27:07 <alex> alex has joined #sparql 20:50:37 <alex> alex has joined #sparql 21:03:21 <alex> alex has joined #sparql # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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