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Chatlog 2012-01-24
From SPARQL Working Group
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15:00:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql 15:00:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/24-sparql-irc 15:00:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 15:00:17 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql 15:00:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277 15:00:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now 15:00:20 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference 15:00:21 <trackbot> Date: 24 January 2012 15:00:27 <swh> Zakim, who's on the call? 15:00:27 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, swh 15:00:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, cbuilara, swh, MacTed, AndyS, bglimm, SteveH, iv_an_ru, LeeF, Andrei, kasei, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro 15:00:31 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL 15:00:31 <Zakim> ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started 15:00:35 <Zakim> +??P13 15:00:38 <swh> Zakim, who's on the call? 15:00:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P12, ??P13 15:00:39 <AndyS> zakim, ??P13 is me 15:00:41 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 15:00:45 <swh> Zakim, ??P12 is me 15:00:47 <Zakim> +swh; got it 15:00:49 <Zakim> +??P19 15:00:52 <LeeF> phone is frozen 15:00:54 <LeeF> nice 15:00:55 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P19 is me 15:00:57 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it 15:00:59 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me 15:00:59 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted 15:01:02 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql 15:01:03 <Zakim> +kasei 15:01:21 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum 15:01:29 <LeeF> zakkim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me 15:01:32 <LeeF> zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me 15:01:35 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it 15:01:55 <Zakim> +??P29 15:02:01 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P29 is me 15:02:07 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it 15:02:09 <Zakim> +MattPerry 15:02:25 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone? 15:02:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see swh, AndyS, bglimm (muted), kasei, LeeF, cbuilara, MattPerry 15:02:58 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me 15:03:09 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS 15:03:13 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted 15:03:17 <AndyS> scribe: Andy Seaborne 15:03:21 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql 15:03:41 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0075.html 15:03:45 <Zakim> + +1.540.841.aaaa 15:03:47 <LeeF> topic: Admin 15:04:10 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve last week's minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17 15:04:17 <pgearon> Zakim, aaaa is me 15:04:17 <Zakim> +pgearon; got it 15:04:27 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Olivier 15:04:39 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql 15:04:40 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17 15:04:49 <chimezie> Zakim, what is the passcode? 15:04:52 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chimezie 15:04:53 <LeeF> Next meeting is on 1/31 15:05:28 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aabb 15:05:38 <chimezie> Zakim +1.216.368.aabb is me 15:05:51 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me 15:05:51 <Zakim> sorry, chimezie, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 15:05:58 <LeeF> Lee: RDF WG? 15:06:05 <LeeF> AndyS: pretty quiet, discussing graph use cases 15:06:11 <LeeF> ...small point around turtle and hex binary 15:06:19 <chimezie> Zakim, 1.216.368.aabb is me 15:06:19 <Zakim> sorry, chimezie, I do not recognize a party named '1.216.368.aabb' 15:06:22 <LeeF> ...about whitespace, but I don't think there will be progress on that 15:06:50 <AndyS> topic: tests 15:07:10 <LeeF> implementation report is here: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/ 15:08:07 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.368.aabb is me 15:08:07 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it 15:08:12 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me 15:08:12 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted 15:08:40 <AndyS> kasei:chnages Update syntax shortcuts, qname escapes, a few other things 15:08:50 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone? 15:08:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see swh, AndyS, bglimm, kasei, LeeF, cbuilara, MattPerry, pgearon, chimezie (muted) 15:08:53 <AndyS> ... last run Oct 2011. 15:09:03 <AndyS> ... despite CVS timestamp. 15:09:20 <chimezie> I can do all of the above but just for some entailment tests 15:09:20 <AndyS> Leef: anyone else in a position to run the test suite? 15:09:24 <pgearon> not me at all 15:09:35 <MattPerry> We use ARQ, so our results will basically be the same 15:09:43 <bglimm> Hopefully I can run the tests in a few weeks (entailment tests mainly though) 15:10:30 <AndyS> LeeF:want to batch approve all tests in two impls. 15:11:19 <bglimm> Michael Schneider wanted to implement ent. regimes. I haven't talked to him recently to see where he stands 15:11:24 <AndyS> AndyS: Reach out to other implementations. 15:11:45 <AndyS> LeeF: Will go outbound soon so we get feedback on mechanisms ASAP. 15:12:05 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to post about test suite on public-sparql-dev and -comments list and reach out to implementors 15:12:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-579 - Post about test suite on public-sparql-dev and -comments list and reach out to implementors [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-01-31]. 15:12:29 <AndyS> LeeF: Query first 15:13:33 <AndyS> Mechanism -- approve all but specific tests based on last report. 15:14:08 <LeeF> agg-err-{01,02} 15:16:29 <AndyS> ARQ runs the agg tests and functions all OK (from CVS) 15:19:16 <AndyS> ARQ runs the update silent test all successesfully 15:19:35 <LeeF> close ACTION-575 15:19:35 <trackbot> ACTION-575 Propose tests for ADD, MOVE, and COPY closed 15:19:50 <AndyS> LeeF: newer tests from Matt. ARQ reports running them OK. 15:19:56 <LeeF> close ACTION-574 15:19:56 <trackbot> ACTION-574 Propose tests for positive use of EXISTS closed 15:20:15 <AndyS> .. EXISTS tests look OK (2 impls pass the tests) 15:21:16 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to re-run the implementation report and check in an updated one 15:21:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-580 - Re-run the implementation report and check in an updated one [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-01-31]. 15:22:59 <kasei> q+ 15:23:02 <LeeF> ack kasei 15:23:02 <AndyS> LeeF: For CR - snapshot place and fixed report place 15:24:55 <AndyS> kasei: SHA384 still there 15:25:00 <AndyS> AndyS: I'll remove them. 15:25:05 <AndyS> topic: protocol 15:26:23 <AndyS> LeeF: Easier to start again - need an online service that will poke a server with the protocol. 15:26:33 <AndyS> ... service description testing ... 15:27:05 <AndyS> kasei: Online form, for a URL, get back a report of SD conformance 9(3 tests currently) 15:27:11 <kasei> http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sdvalidator.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyrdf.us%2Fsparql11&submit=Submit 15:27:30 <AndyS> ... conneg -> EARl if RDF. 15:28:38 <AndyS> LeeF: coverage page says we will have 2+ impls. We may need to encourage people to put up SD's 15:29:50 <AndyS> ... mildly related ... anyone at SemTech presenting SPARQL 1.1? 15:30:18 <AndyS> LeeF: want similar set up for protocol - something that poke a service. 15:30:38 <AndyS> .. drive by the examples in the protocol doc. 15:30:53 <AndyS> ... one new thing - query as application/sparql-query 15:31:50 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to work changes to protocol TR publication back into editor's draft 15:31:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-581 - Work changes to protocol TR publication back into editor's draft [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-01-31]. 15:32:35 <AndyS> LeeF: Overall next week, approve all that is green x2 impls 15:33:04 <LeeF> ACTION-580? 15:33:04 <trackbot> ACTION-580 -- Gregory Williams to re-run the implementation report and check in an updated one -- due 2012-01-31 -- OPEN 15:33:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/580 15:33:11 <AndyS> Topic: TSV/CSV formats 15:35:16 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2011/05/sparql-charter 15:36:40 <AndyS> LeeF: Concern is that it is two different formats. 15:37:07 <AndyS> ... CSV is string forms, TSV is full Turtle terms. 15:37:10 <swh> q+ 15:37:32 <AndyS> ... found this strange - not the way I'd do it. 15:37:57 <AndyS> ... but not an issue to hold up over. Still want some discussion on it though. 15:38:05 <LeeF> ack swh 15:39:13 <AndyS> swh: Understand the concern; CSV in excel often does not want Turtle details (experience); TSV is for programs. No user feedback againt it. 15:39:17 <AndyS> q+ 15:39:22 <LeeF> ack Andrei 15:39:25 <LeeF> ack AndyS 15:39:37 <swh> AndyS: experience is that TSV is quite popular 15:39:46 <swh> … people use CSV but a little bit 15:39:53 <swh> … and it's very fast to produce 15:40:10 <swh> … get the why does ntriples parse faster than turtle effect 15:40:18 <swh> … don't see much use of CSV 15:40:31 <swh> … people dont see it in the wild as being different formats, lots of confusion 15:40:40 <swh> … there's a lot of confusion in the wild 15:41:09 <AndyS> LeeF: can be explained 15:41:35 <swh> AndyS: which ones does Anzo use 15:41:36 <AndyS> ... Anzo does the string form (CSV) 15:42:39 <kasei> I'm in agreement with Lee. Seems weird, but think it can be explained. 15:43:23 <AndyS> LeeF: Consensus on two formats - issue of confusion recognized as possible. 15:44:03 <AndyS> AndyS: Needs more examples 15:44:37 <AndyS> LeeF: Seems better to make it REC track. 15:44:58 <AndyS> ... next step - complete doc and then move forward through process. 15:45:36 <AndyS> Topic: AOB 15:45:44 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me 15:45:44 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted 15:46:00 <AndyS> LeeF: Chime - anything about graph store? 15:46:00 <kasei> q+ to ask about ACTION-573 (aggregate errors) 15:46:13 <AndyS> chime: next time please 15:46:23 <LeeF> ack kasei 15:46:23 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to ask about ACTION-573 (aggregate errors) 15:47:02 <AndyS> kasei: need more agg-error tests? 15:47:06 <LeeF> close ACTION-573 15:47:06 <trackbot> ACTION-573 Propose tests for aggregate evaluation errors closed 15:47:07 <AndyS> LeeF: No - it's done. 15:47:48 <AndyS> ADJOURNED # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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