Chatlog 2011-12-20

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00:33:46 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
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00:54:22 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
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02:33:13 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
03:12:40 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
15:00:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
15:00:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/20-sparql-irc
15:00:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
15:00:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
15:00:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:29 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:00:29 <trackbot> Date: 20 December 2011
15:00:34 <sandro> zakim, code?
15:00:34 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro
15:00:38 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
15:00:42 <sandro> trackbot, start meeting
15:00:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
15:00:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:47 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:00:47 <trackbot> Date: 20 December 2011
15:01:07 <kasei> Zakim, who is here?
15:01:07 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, kasei
15:01:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see bglimm, Zakim, RRSAgent, MattPerry, cbuilara, Olivier, iv_an_ru, chimezie, MacTed, swh, AndyS, pgearon, kasei, trackbot, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro
15:01:48 <sandro> zakim, this is sparql
15:01:49 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
15:01:55 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
15:01:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.781.899.aaaa, kasei, +1.603.897.aabb, ??P15, ??P11, ??P17, ??P16
15:01:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see bglimm, Zakim, RRSAgent, MattPerry, cbuilara, Olivier, iv_an_ru, chimezie, MacTed, swh, AndyS, pgearon, kasei, trackbot, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro
15:02:12 <bglimm> Who I am I
15:02:24 <MattPerry> zakim, aabb is me
15:02:24 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
15:02:26 <AndyS1> AndyS1 has joined #sparql
15:02:33 <bglimm> How can I do hands up?
15:02:34 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:34 <Zakim> +sandro; got it
15:02:36 <swh> Zakim, ??P15 is me
15:02:36 <Zakim> +swh; got it
15:02:51 <swh> q-
15:02:57 <swh> Zakim, q=
15:02:57 <Zakim> swh, if you meant to query the queue, please say 'q?'; if you meant to replace the queue, please say 'queue= ...'
15:02:57 <sandro> queue=
15:03:06 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P16 is me
15:03:06 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
15:03:08 <chimezie>  Zakim, passcode
15:03:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'passcode', chimezie
15:03:16 <cbuilara> q+
15:03:16 <sandro> zakim, code?
15:03:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro
15:03:17 <swh> chimezie, 77277
15:03:18 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:03:18 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:03:19 <cbuilara> q-
15:03:23 <Zakim> +pgearon
15:03:40 <cbuilara> zakim, aaaaa is me
15:03:40 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaaa'
15:03:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:47 <AndyS1> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:03:47 <Zakim> +AndyS1; got it
15:03:55 <Zakim> -??P11
15:03:59 <chimezie> ty
15:04:15 <Zakim> +??P11
15:04:19 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P11 is me
15:04:19 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
15:04:26 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aacc
15:04:31 <sandro> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0402
15:04:33 <sandro> chair: Sandro
15:04:35 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.368.aacc is me
15:04:36 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: SPARQL WG http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0402.html
15:04:36 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it
15:04:41 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aadd
15:04:43 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:04:43 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
15:04:54 <kasei> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Scribe_List
15:04:59 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
15:04:59 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
15:05:52 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:05:52 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:05:57 <AndyS1> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:05:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see sandro, kasei, MattPerry, swh, ??P17, bglimm (muted), pgearon, AndyS1, cbuilara, chimezie (muted), +1.617.324.aadd
15:06:00 <sandro> NickH, ?
15:06:38 <sandro> zakim, aadd is Eric
15:06:38 <Zakim> +Eric; got it
15:06:59 <Olivier> Olivier also on the phone
15:07:28 <sandro> zakim, ?P17 is Olivier
15:07:28 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named '?P17'
15:07:31 <sandro> zakim, P17 is Olivier
15:07:31 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'P17'
15:07:34 <sandro> zakim, ??P17 is Olivier
15:07:34 <Zakim> +Olivier; got it
15:07:43 <sandro> zakim, pick a scribe
15:07:43 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose cbuilara
15:08:00 <cbuilara> ok
15:08:04 <cbuilara> yep
15:08:09 <sandro> scibe: cbuilara 
15:08:14 <sandro> scribe: cbuilara 
15:08:35 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall
15:08:49 <cbuilara> Sandro: Agenda, to approve LC documents, post last call
15:09:05 <cbuilara> Sandro: any other issue?
15:09:38 <bglimm> Minutes
15:09:39 <AndyS1> We aren't repub JSON results in this cycle, are we?
15:09:39 <bglimm> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-12-13
15:10:01 <cbuilara> Sandro: do we have a meeting next week?
15:10:06 <sandro> PROPOSED: skip Dec 27th meeting, next mtg Jan 3rd
15:10:16 <cbuilara> Sandro: any objections to that?
15:10:18 <pgearon> seconded
15:10:18 <bglimm> +1
15:10:21 <cbuilara> +1
15:10:22 <chimezie> i can hear u
15:10:24 <sandro> RESOLVED: skip Dec 27th meeting, next mtg Jan 3rd
15:10:35 <sandro> topic: Query 
15:11:01 <bglimm> I reviewed it and I am ok with publishing Query
15:11:06 <cbuilara> Sandro: any comments or concerns?
15:11:09 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
15:11:09 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
15:11:29 <cbuilara> Andy: LC page got reduced
15:11:48 <cbuilara> Greg: I did not get really into the aggregate
15:12:01 <cbuilara> Greg: but based on the dicussions last week, I'm happy with it
15:12:13 <cbuilara> s/dicussions/discussions
15:12:45 <bglimm> I think my action ACTION-547 can be closed: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/547
15:12:47 <AndyS1> See also http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall2 (:-|)
15:13:58 <kasei> q+
15:13:59 <cbuilara> Andy: we have to decide last call period
15:14:32 <sandro> ack kasei 
15:14:40 <cbuilara> Greg: adding all the fnction URIs, can we do it after last call?
15:14:46 <cbuilara> Andy1: we can do it
15:14:55 <sandro> andy: we can do the namespace document later
15:15:07 <cbuilara> s/Andy1/AndyS1
15:15:29 <cbuilara> AndyS1: it is something editorial
15:15:37 <sandro> sandro: so we might change the namespace URI itself
15:15:40 <sandro> AndyS: yes
15:16:24 <kasei> http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql#
15:17:54 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml
15:18:01 <sandro> says "sfn:http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql# @@(process) Ensure page populated (see
15:18:01 <sandro>       this list)."
15:18:15 <cbuilara> sandro: Looks ok to me
15:18:20 <cbuilara> sandro: any other issues?
15:18:30 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish 'Query' as Last Call    
15:18:38 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
15:18:46 <kasei> +1 (RPI)
15:18:47 <cbuilara> sandro: please vote with our organization
15:18:47 <swh> +1 (Garlik)
15:18:48 <AndyS1> +1 (ASF)
15:18:49 <pgearon> +1 Revelytix
15:18:50 <bglimm> +1 (Uni Ulm)
15:18:50 <Olivier> +1 INRIA
15:18:51 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)
15:18:53 <cbuilara> +1 (UPM)
15:18:54 <chimezie> +1 (IE)
15:19:09 <ericP> +1 (W3C) (redundant against 2011-12-20T15:18:38Z <sandro> +1 (W3C))
15:19:18 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish 'Query' as Last Call    
15:19:36 <sandro> topic: Entailment  
15:19:38 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall#Entailment
15:20:00 <cbuilara> sandro: Birte, there is an action on that
15:20:22 <cbuilara> bglimm: I'm working on the document right now, I replied agreen changes
15:20:29 <sandro> birte: Axel and Markus reviews, satisfied
15:20:32 <cbuilara> sandro: any concerns
15:20:53 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish 'Entailment Regimes' as Last Call
15:20:59 <sandro> +1 W3C
15:21:05 <AndyS1> +1 (ASF)
15:21:05 <pgearon> +1 Revelytix
15:21:06 <kasei> +1 (RPI)
15:21:08 <cbuilara> +1 (UPM)
15:21:09 <bglimm> +1 (Uni Ulm)
15:21:10 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)
15:21:13 <chimezie> +1 (IE)
15:21:15 <Olivier> +1 INRIA
15:21:34 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish 'Entailment Regimes' as Last Call
15:21:46 <sandro> topic: Update
15:22:11 <pgearon> hang on...
15:22:54 <cbuilara> pgearon: made couple of editorial changes
15:23:21 <cbuilara> pgearon: document ready to go
15:24:02 <cbuilara> sandro: Paul, do you want anybody to go over the changes?
15:24:21 <swh> Zakim, who's speaking?
15:24:32 <Zakim> swh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgearon (35%), sandro (54%), swh (20%)
15:24:44 <swh> Zakim, mute me
15:24:44 <Zakim> swh should now be muted
15:24:49 <cbuilara> sandro: anybody have an opinion on Paul's email?
15:24:55 <kasei> I was happy with the DB-5 response.
15:24:59 <swh> me too
15:25:01 <AndyS1> q+
15:25:01 <cbuilara> sandro: is somebody willing to look over?
15:25:07 <sandro> ack AndyS 
15:25:21 <cbuilara> AndyS: there is a comment from David Wood
15:25:56 <cbuilara> pgearon: not related to SPARQL update
15:26:56 <AndyS1> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments#Post_Last_Call_Comments
15:27:33 <cbuilara> sandro: which comment from David Wood?
15:27:59 <AndyS1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Dec/0015.html
15:28:03 <AndyS1> DW-1
15:28:10 <cbuilara> bglimm:I have one comment, I drafted another response for David Zimmerman
15:28:21 <cbuilara> bglimm: please, look at it
15:28:25 <bglimm> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:AZ-1-2
15:29:07 <AndyS1> Response looks good to me.
15:29:51 <kasei> looks fine
15:31:31 <swh> yes, have read it
15:31:38 <sandro> sandro: Steve, Greg, have you looked at DB-5 and the changes it describes?
15:31:55 <swh> I also didn't follow up w.r.t. the document
15:31:59 <cbuilara> kasei: I'm happy with it
15:32:13 <cbuilara> sandro: any other concern about update?
15:32:18 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish 'Update' as Last Call
15:32:22 <sandro> +1 W3C
15:32:26 <cbuilara> +1 UPM
15:32:28 <Olivier> +1 INRIA
15:32:32 <MattPerry> +1 Oracle
15:32:33 <kasei> +1 (RPI)
15:32:40 <swh> 0 (Garlik) [I've not read it in enough detail]
15:32:47 <bglimm> I would like to abstain as I never found the time to properly read the document
15:32:50 <chimezie> 0 (IE)
15:33:04 <swh> s/I've/we've/
15:33:06 <sandro> bglimm, just to 0 for abstain
15:33:10 <bglimm> 0
15:33:19 <bglimm> o (Uni Ulm)
15:33:28 <bglimm> 0 (Uni Ulm)
15:33:29 <pgearon> +1 Revelytix
15:33:39 <AndyS1> +1 (ASF)
15:33:47 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish 'Update' as Last Call
15:34:45 <sandro> topic: Service Description
15:35:43 <cbuilara> sandro: chimezie comments fixed
15:36:05 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
15:36:05 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
15:36:10 <cbuilara> kasei: I did not get to pass them around again, I was hoping to hearing more follow up response
15:36:55 <kasei> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0311.html
15:38:11 <cbuilara> kasei: the only issue is the update subsets, which is the second point in that email thread, your comment on discovering service description
15:38:32 <cbuilara> kase: was the following point in that email, I couldn't make sense of that email
15:38:48 <cbuilara> s/kase/kasei
15:39:39 <cbuilara> chimezie: I do not have any other outstanding issues at the end of this thread, I'm fine with publishing as last call
15:40:01 <cbuilara> kasei: issue on discovering text, purely an editorial thing
15:40:11 <cbuilara> kasei: I think we are good to go
15:40:42 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:40:42 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:40:47 <sandro> chimezie: when you have one spec that has something illdefined, because it's not in line with another, ... is that a reason not to publish one...    That will come up.
15:40:53 <cbuilara> chimezie: certain things in the editorial process that are not very clear, and shoudl be mentioned now
15:41:15 <cbuilara> chimezie. this issue will come out in the graph store protocol
15:41:19 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:41:19 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
15:41:20 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish 'Service Description' as Last Call
15:41:22 <kasei> +1 (RPI)
15:41:25 <AndyS1> +1 (ASF)
15:41:26 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
15:41:29 <Olivier> +1 INRIA
15:41:29 <cbuilara> +1 (UPM)
15:41:33 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)
15:41:35 <pgearon> +1 Revelytix
15:41:45 <swh> 0 (Garlik) [we've not read it in enough detail]
15:41:59 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish 'Service Description' as Last Call
15:42:45 <cbuilara> kasei: only editorial changes for protocol
15:43:04 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish 'Protocol' as Last Call
15:43:09 <kasei> +1 (RPI)
15:43:11 <swh> +1 (Garlik)
15:43:14 <AndyS1> +1 (ASF)
15:43:15 <sandro> +0 (W3C)     not quite sure the state here
15:43:21 <bglimm> +1 (Uni Ulm)
15:43:21 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)
15:43:22 <pgearon> +1 Revelytix
15:43:24 <cbuilara> +1 (UPM)
15:43:36 <Olivier> 0 INRIA (have not studied the doc)
15:43:37 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish 'Protocol' as Last Call
15:44:59 <sandro> andy: no need for LC2 for JSON.
15:45:36 <cbuilara> sandro: publication date January 2nd
15:46:01 <cbuilara> sandro: any objection?
15:46:05 <AndyS1> fine
15:46:21 <cbuilara> sandro: how long should we do it?
15:46:35 <cbuilara> AndyS: 4 weeks I think
15:46:51 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
15:46:52 <cbuilara> sandro: any objection?
15:47:12 <sandro> PROPOSED:  we'll publish as soon as practical after the moratiorium, and have a review period of 4 weeks
15:47:19 <AndyS1> +1
15:47:28 <sandro> +1
15:47:34 <MattPerry> +1
15:47:39 <sandro> RESOLVED:  we'll publish as soon as practical after the moratiorium, and have a review period of 4 weeks
15:47:55 <cbuilara> sandro: graph store protocol
15:48:08 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
15:48:08 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
15:48:17 <sandro> topic: Graph Store HTTP Protocol
15:48:37 <sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0403.html
15:49:12 <AndyS1> I am not that keen on skipping CR (it's a community/social thing) but will not formally object.
15:49:25 <swh> +1 to AndyS1 
15:51:55 <sandro> Proposed: we'll include the text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0403.html in each LC draft
15:52:00 <cbuilara> sandro: can we go ahead with this text?
15:52:04 <sandro> +1
15:52:13 <kasei> +1
15:52:24 <sandro> RESOLVED: we'll include the text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0403.html in each LC draft
15:52:32 <sandro> topic: graph store htttp protocol
15:53:22 <cbuilara> sandro: I think we are far away of a LC status
15:53:58 <cbuilara> sandro: the one thing I care is the SPARQL update should be accepted as a patch
15:55:35 <cbuilara> sandro: mu argument is that we should require that everybody in this use case, if you are able to use graph protocol, you should implement SPARQL update
15:55:49 <ericP> q+ to say that i'd prefer text like "there is a subset of resources, which we will call POST2Update, which MUST follow this behavior..."
15:55:58 <swh> agreed, I think very high cost is ok
15:56:16 <sandro> andy: I think high cost of implementation is enough to ignore a SHOULD.
15:56:27 <ericP> q-
15:56:37 <AndyS1> I think high cost is sufficient not do a SHOULD.  Also, CAPS text not in a "informative"
15:56:44 <cbuilara> sandro: label section as informative
15:56:45 <swh> SHOULD - http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
15:57:06 <Zakim> -AndyS1
15:57:44 <AndyS1> Thx zakim
15:57:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:58:06 <AndyS1> zakim, IPCaller is me
15:58:06 <Zakim> +AndyS1; got it
15:58:18 <sandro> sandro: I don't understand how we can have "should" statements in a non-normative section.
15:58:53 <cbuilara> kasei: the alternative is to say is that there is this behavior
15:59:07 <cbuilara> s/kasei/chimezie
15:59:17 <sandro> s/chimezie/eric
16:00:20 <cbuilara> sandro: take out the recommended word
16:00:32 <sandro> sandro: I'm fine as long as this is really non-normative.
16:01:04 <AndyS1> Have to go.  See you on email.
16:02:21 <AndyS1> AndyS1 has left #sparql
16:02:26 <Zakim> -AndyS1
16:02:34 <swh> I can stay for 10 mins
16:02:40 <bglimm> 5 min is ok
16:02:44 <pgearon> I can't stay
16:03:30 <kasei> q+ to say it's not just comments. I'm still not happy with the text about service descriptions.
16:03:33 <cbuilara> chimezie: there are more comments, wiki not up to date
16:03:47 <sandro> looking at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments re graphstore
16:03:54 <ericP> q+ to say that i suspect that we won't get a satisfactory closure in 5 mins and that the cost of delaying doesn't appear as high as the cost of premature publication
16:04:11 <ericP> cbuilara, i'll move to adjourn
16:04:20 <sandro> chime: I think it's okay to publish next draft before closing loop with Arnaud
16:04:44 <Zakim> -cbuilara
16:05:14 <swh> +1 ro ericP 
16:05:31 <sandro> kasei: There's also a lot of text about service description that I'm not happy with
16:05:45 <sandro> chimezie: we agreed on that in principle
16:06:01 <sandro> thank pgearon 
16:06:08 <Zakim> -chimezie
16:06:11 <Zakim> -pgearon
16:06:17 <bglimm> OK, I am off too
16:06:22 <swh> bye everyone
16:06:24 <MattPerry> bye
16:06:24 <bglimm> Merry Christmas to all of you
16:06:25 <Zakim> -swh
16:06:25 <sandro> ADJOURNED
16:06:25 <ericP> ADJOURNED
16:06:26 <Zakim> -Olivier
16:06:32 <Zakim> -kasei
16:06:32 <sandro> great work everyone, happy holidays!
16:06:33 <Zakim> -MattPerry
16:06:36 <Zakim> -bglimm
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