Chatlog 2011-10-18

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13:59:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:59:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/18-sparql-irc
13:59:14 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:59:33 <AndyS> rrsagent, this will be SPARQL
13:59:33 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'this will be SPARQL', AndyS.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:59:43 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
13:59:47 <AndyS> trackbot, this will be SPARQL
13:59:47 <trackbot> Sorry, AndyS, I don't understand 'trackbot, this will be SPARQL'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
13:59:58 <AndyS> zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:59:58 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:00:03 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
14:00:08 <Zakim> +kasei
14:00:10 <Zakim> +??P22
14:00:15 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P22 is me
14:00:15 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:00:36 <Zakim> +Olivier
14:00:37 <Zakim> +??P30
14:00:40 <Zakim> +bglimm
14:00:41 <AndyS> zakim, ??P30 is me
14:00:42 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:00:52 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:00:54 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:00:54 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:01:10 <AndyS> trackbot, start meeting
14:01:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:01:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:01:14 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:01:15 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:01:15 <trackbot> Date: 18 October 2011
14:01:21 <AndyS> rrsagent, make logs public
14:02:20 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:02:23 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:28 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
14:02:31 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
14:02:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, kasei, Olivier, AndyS, bglimm (muted), MattPerry, +49.897.aaaa
14:02:57 <AndyS> who is +49? Axel?
14:03:09 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aaaa is me
14:03:20 <Zakim> +??P1
14:03:28 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
14:03:28 <AndyS> zakim, go faster please
14:03:28 <swh> Zakim, ??P1 is me
14:03:48 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-10-18
14:03:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'go faster', AndyS
14:03:58 <Zakim> +swh; got it
14:04:01 <chimezie> Zakim, passcode?
14:04:06 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chimezie
14:04:09 <AndyS> I can scribe until Sandro gets here
14:04:19 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS
14:04:30 <AndyS> Topic: Summary
14:04:44 <AndyS> Axel: review schedule and (re)charter
14:05:05 <AndyS> ... seeking opinions on how to proceed
14:05:11 <AndyS> Topic: admin
14:05:11 <AndyS> Regrets: Paul Gearon, Alex Passant
14:05:19 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-10-04
14:05:28 <AndyS> Look good to me.
14:05:42 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-10-04
14:06:01 <AndyS> Next telecon - ISWC overlap.
14:06:15 <LeeF> I'm not at ISWC & am available next week
14:06:50 <MattPerry> I will be available
14:06:53 <cbuilara> I will be available
14:07:04 <bglimm> depends on internet availablility and schedule of ISWC
14:07:09 <AndyS> Axel: next meeting in one week
14:07:29 <AndyS> (someone pls scribe)
14:07:41 <AxelPolleres> topic: RDF Liaison
14:07:44 <Zakim> +Chimezie
14:07:51 <AxelPolleres> andyS: f2f lastweek
14:07:56 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:07:56 <Zakim> Chimezie should now be muted
14:08:26 <AxelPolleres> ... resolved plain literals issue, simple literals will be XSD strings, tagged literals will have a dedicated new datatype
14:09:02 <AxelPolleres> ... discussion about named graphs. there is no desire to unify the different uses but more discussion ongoing.
14:09:34 <AxelPolleres> ... last item is about lists and sequences. whether to deprecate them or not.
14:10:04 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
14:11:16 <AxelPolleres> ... concern about usage out there.
14:13:02 <AxelPolleres> ... RDF plans to push this to (a future?) SPARQL WG.
14:13:13 <AndyS> Topic:Publications
14:13:43 <AndyS> subtopic: Federated query
14:13:56 <swh> lots of noise
14:14:01 <swh> Zakim, who's speaking
14:14:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's speaking', swh
14:14:05 <swh> Zakim, who's speaking?
14:14:08 <chimezie> getting noise
14:14:16 <Zakim> swh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cbuilara (15%), AndyS (21%)
14:14:50 <AndyS> Axel: status was changes in progress , Greg to review
14:14:53 <kasei> "Note that there are no evaluation semantics in the current document for the SPARQL pattern SERVICE VAR. Therefore, in the following table we present the intuitive solutions for this query with the data above:"
14:15:32 <AndyS> kasei: can accept what we have now (in the spirit of progressing publication)
14:15:53 <kasei> q+
14:15:57 <AndyS> Carlos: doc just suggests possible answers for SERVICE ?srv
14:16:17 <AndyS> ... we do not give it normative semantics
14:16:50 <AndyS> kasei: suggest moving to beginning of section.
14:17:04 <AndyS> ... otherwise current wording is acceptable
14:17:11 <AndyS> carlos: OK
14:17:29 <AndyS> Axel: ready for LC?  or more reviews?
14:18:01 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service as LC WD at http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-federated-query/
14:18:25 <AxelPolleres> ... modulo moving the said sentence to the beginning of section.
14:18:50 <AndyS> +1 to pubilsh fed as LC 
14:18:58 <LeeF> If kasei is +1, then so am I
14:19:02 <MattPerry> +1
14:19:11 <kasei> +1
14:19:16 <LeeF> +1
14:19:18 <chimezie> +1
14:19:19 <AxelPolleres> +1
14:19:19 <AndyS> +1 ASF
14:19:19 <bglimm> 0 - Ulm (I haven't read the document)
14:19:19 <Olivier> +1
14:19:21 <cbuilara> +1
14:19:56 <AndyS> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service as LC WD at http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-federated-query/  modulo moving the said sentence to the beginning of section.  No Objections.
14:20:24 <pgearon> pgearon has joined #sparql
14:20:39 <AndyS> Axel: Carlos, please pub-smith the doc.
14:20:54 <AndyS> ... we may publish in a group
14:21:01 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: carlos to check pubrules for fed query.
14:21:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-542 - Check pubrules for fed query. [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-10-25].
14:21:02 <AndyS> ... of docs
14:21:13 <AndyS> subtopic: overview doc
14:21:20 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview
14:22:01 <AndyS> Axel: section ordering still "as is"
14:22:25 <AndyS> AndyS: No time to review this FPWD
14:22:32 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/Overview.xml as FPWD at http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-overview/
14:22:50 <MattPerry> +1
14:22:51 <AndyS> +1 ASF
14:22:52 <AxelPolleres> +1 
14:22:55 <cbuilara> +1
14:22:55 <Olivier> +1
14:22:56 <bglimm> +1 Ulm
14:23:02 <kasei> +1
14:23:03 <chimezie> +1
14:23:06 <LeeF> aye
14:23:32 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/Overview.xml as FPWD at http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-overview/ .no objections, no abstentions.
14:23:44 <AndyS> subtopic: Protocol doc
14:24:49 <AndyS> LeeF: Not quite ready yet.  Some progress (kasei, LeeF)
14:25:06 <AndyS> Axel: Timescale? Assign reviewers next week?
14:25:25 <AndyS> LeeF: can try, can't guarantee
14:25:36 <Zakim> +??P10
14:25:46 <Zakim> -cbuilara
14:25:46 <NickH> Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:25:48 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
14:26:05 <AndyS> topic: Post LC
14:26:06 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall
14:26:10 <NickH> Zakim, mute me
14:26:10 <Zakim> NickH should now be muted
14:26:26 <Zakim> +??P11
14:26:30 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P11 is me
14:26:30 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:26:39 <AndyS> subtopic: Query
14:28:09 <AxelPolleres> andy: these are things that need to be done... http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall#Query
14:28:18 <AxelPolleres> main things are BIND and function changes.
14:28:49 <AxelPolleres> ... also the big red boxes.
14:28:55 <AxelPolleres> ... needs 2nd last call
14:29:26 <AxelPolleres> axel: timeframe to 2nd LC?
14:30:14 <AxelPolleres> ... aim at publication end of Nov?
14:31:05 <AxelPolleres> steve: plan to get any of my changes done by end of this month
14:31:17 <AxelPolleres> andy: won't have time before Nov.
14:31:37 <AxelPolleres> andy: main thing is clearing the comments list.
14:33:59 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
14:35:43 <LeeF> I'll take care of the rest of that one
14:35:51 <LeeF> from Andy
14:35:55 <LeeF> yes, I"m now the owner
14:37:05 <AndyS> reuse of prefixes (DB-9)
14:37:13 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Sep/0004.html
14:38:09 <AndyS> Axel: What about Turtle?
14:38:22 <AndyS> AndyS: Turtle does not allow this.  
14:39:09 <AndyS> ... it is now late in our process
14:39:20 <AndyS> Axel: Will draft response to DB
14:39:52 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to draft an answer to DB-9, stating that it is too late in the process for this change.
14:39:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-543 - Draft an answer to DB-9, stating that it is too late in the process for this change. [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-10-25].
14:40:25 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Sep/0000.html
14:40:34 <AxelPolleres> steve: think I drafted a response.
14:41:32 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:41:32 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:42:06 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:42:06 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:42:06 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:42:15 <kasei> q-
14:42:20 <AndyS> subtopic: Update
14:42:58 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall#Update
14:44:15 <AndyS> DB-12
14:44:18 <AxelPolleres> DB-12 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Sep/0008.html
14:44:49 <AxelPolleres> [[ If a graph is created implicitly by an update operation, then the behavior of the Graph Store MUST be functionally equivalent to its behavior if the graph had been created explicitly by a CREATE operation. ]]
14:44:50 <AndyS> Axel: David thinks we should add text about "CREATE GRAPH"
14:45:46 <AndyS> ... problem is that doc says a graph store may remove empty graphs
14:46:05 <AndyS> ... but not that it always does or does not
14:46:16 <AndyS> ... so some may be dropped, and some may
14:46:19 <AndyS> q+
14:47:48 <AndyS> q-
14:48:11 <AndyS> AndyS: I think doc covers this via the formal semantics.
14:49:37 <AndyS> Axel: What should we proscribe?
14:50:02 <AndyS> ... make a distinction between graph and non-graph aware graph stores?
14:51:44 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-update/#def_clearOperation
14:54:12 <chimezie> does that effect operations involving data?
14:55:42 <AndyS> Axel: What should I as editor do?
14:55:56 <chimezie> Zakim unmute me
14:56:44 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:56:44 <Zakim> Chimezie was already muted, chimezie
14:57:01 <AxelPolleres> Axel: will try to draft another response along the lines that yes in this case, that's a bug, but, since the spec doesn't prescribe when graphs are removed and when not, the suggested text wouldn't change anything.
14:57:21 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:57:21 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:58:24 <AndyS> bglimm: outstanding comment  (only one reply)
14:58:34 <AxelPolleres> please reply/discuss by next time the open comment Birte is dealing with on D-entailment...
14:58:52 <bglimm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0033.html
14:59:47 <Zakim> -Chimezie
14:59:49 <AndyS> trackbot, end meeting
14:59:49 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:59:49 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been kasei, cbuilara, Olivier, bglimm, AndyS, MattPerry, +49.897.aaaa, AxelPolleres, swh, Chimezie, Lee_Feigenbaum, NickH
14:59:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:59:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/18-sparql-minutes.html trackbot
14:59:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:59:51 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/18-sparql-actions.rdf :
14:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: carlos to check pubrules for fed query. [1]
14:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/18-sparql-irc#T14-21-01
14:59:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Axel to draft an answer to DB-9, stating that it is too late in the process for this change. [2]
14:59:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/10/18-sparql-irc#T14-39-52
14:59:52 <Zakim> -swh
14:59:52 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:59:52 <Zakim> -cbuilara
14:59:53 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
14:59:54 <Zakim> -NickH
14:59:55 <Zakim> -Olivier
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