Chatlog 2010-03-03 Ent

See original RRSAgent log and preview nicely formatted version.

Please justify/explain all edits to this page, in your "edit summary" text.

17:53:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
17:53:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/03-sparql-irc
17:53:56 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
17:54:17 <bglimm> that's easy :-), but I suppose you need special powers to do that or would Zakim also do it if I asked?
17:54:24 <ivan> nop
17:54:48 <ivan> at least I do not think so
17:55:06 <sandro> you have to use just the right tone of voice.   :)
17:55:08 <bglimm> I can try another time and see what Zakim says ;-)
17:55:27 <sandro> zakim, room for 6800000000?
17:55:27 <Zakim> sandro, an adhoc conference was scheduled here less than 2 minutes ago
17:55:49 <ivan> sandro, do not break zakim:-)
17:56:07 <sandro> No, I'm not.   :)
17:58:45 <bglimm> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-03-03
17:59:27 <sandro> zakim, what is the code?
17:59:27 <Zakim> the conference code is 772775 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sandro
17:59:34 <Zakim> Team_(sparql)17:53Z has now started
17:59:41 <Zakim> +Sandro
18:00:37 <Zakim> +bglimm
18:00:42 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
18:00:42 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
18:00:43 <Zakim> +Ivan
18:06:15 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
18:06:27 <bglimm> Hi Axel,
18:06:29 <AxelPolleres> apologies... late
18:06:37 <bglimm> will you join the teleconf
18:06:41 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, code?
18:06:41 <Zakim> the conference code is 772775 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), AxelPolleres
18:07:38 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
18:11:34 <AxelPolleres> infiniteness makes aggregates very problematic
18:11:46 <AxelPolleres> what about protocol issues on the tail...
18:12:40 <AxelPolleres> ... let me put it like this, it worries me as well
18:18:13 <Zakim> + +1.216.773.aaaa
18:22:54 <AxelPolleres> "4 -- Each SPARQL extension must provide conditions on answer sets which guarantee that every BGP and AG has a finite set of answers which is unique up to RDF graph equivalence."
18:28:53 <AxelPolleres> -1 it does not comply with the condition to apply time/size limits that are not deterministic... "unique up to RDF graph equivalence."
18:30:22 <sandro> axel: with a time limit, you wont get the same results.
18:30:35 <sandro> ivan: of course, limit is always non-det
18:30:42 <sandro> axel: limit comes afterwords.
18:31:18 <bglimm> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#sparqlBGPExtend
18:34:33 <sandro> sorry, now I remember the better solution: allow finite recusion.
18:37:22 <AxelPolleres> question is whether condition 4 above allows that the RIF extension defines finiteness by an *implementaiton-dependent* recursion depth
18:38:06 <AxelPolleres> sandro: problem is that I can't write exchangeable rulesets without being able to define the ruleset.
18:39:34 <AxelPolleres> axel: one option may be to deifne recursion-depth as a parameter of rif:imports.
18:42:42 <sandro> googol = 10^100 = as the limit for recursion.    keeps things finite, but you never hit it.
18:43:39 <sandro> I dont want engines to have to check if they have hit it.
18:43:48 <sandro> this is just for the "finiteness" line in the spec.
18:45:33 <AxelPolleres> I share chime's concerns... I'd like to find out where the finiteness requirement comes from and there might have been a good reason. 
18:47:17 <sandro> axel: computing interest via rules....
18:47:45 <sandro> (or some recursive computation)
18:48:18 <sandro> sandro: maybe some list processing....
18:49:07 <AxelPolleres> as far as I remember, these interests formulae are recursive, usually.
18:49:15 <AxelPolleres> ... but I am not a financial expert.
18:51:00 <sandro> computing nth prime -- small input, maybe millions of recursions.
18:51:55 <AxelPolleres> What's the problem with RSS?
18:53:35 <AxelPolleres> +1 to Ivan.
18:53:43 <bglimm> +1 also to Ivan
18:53:50 <sandro> right be a ruleset to reformat RSS, numbering items.
18:53:59 <sandro> s/right be/write me/
18:58:31 <Zakim> -Ivan
18:58:34 <bglimm> adjourned
19:00:28 <Zakim> -bglimm
19:00:33 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/CR_Exit
19:03:43 <AxelPolleres> sandro: nobody has implemented lists2rdf or RDF2lists?
19:09:25 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/OWLRL
19:10:47 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/test/owlrl/
19:11:26 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
19:16:46 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
19:16:48 <Zakim> - +1.216.773.aaaa
19:16:48 <Zakim> -Sandro
19:16:48 <Zakim> Team_(sparql)17:53Z has ended
19:16:49 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, bglimm, Ivan, AxelPolleres, +1.216.773.aaaa
# SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC.  DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW.  SRCLINESUSED=00000070