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Chatlog 2009-09-08
From SPARQL Working Group
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<SimonKJ> Present: LeeF, swh, kasei, AndyS, pgearon, bglimm, SimonKJ, bijan, chimezie, ivanh, ericP, SimonS, SteveH 13:52:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql 13:52:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/08-sparql-irc 13:52:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 13:52:08 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql 13:52:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277 13:52:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes 13:52:11 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference 13:52:11 <trackbot> Date: 08 September 2009 13:52:12 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL 13:52:12 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes 13:52:30 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF 13:52:41 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-09-08 13:52:48 <LeeF> LeeF has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-09-08 13:52:57 <LeeF> Regrets: AlexP, Orri 13:53:39 <LeeF> Possible regrets from Kjetil 13:57:35 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started 14:02:12 <bijan> zakim, who is here? 14:02:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, swh, pgearon, ??P11, +1.919.663.aacc 14:02:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see bijan, SimonKJ, bglimm, swh, Zakim, RRSAgent, iv_an_ru, pgearon, AndyS, ivan, LeeF, karl, kasei, trackbot, ericP 14:04:17 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone? 14:04:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, kasei (muted), AndyS, swh, pgearon, bijan (muted), SimonKJ 14:06:06 <LeeF> Scribe: SimonKJ 14:06:19 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-08-25 14:06:48 <AndyS> I was there - not regrets 14:07:48 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-08-25, noting that AndyS was present 14:08:04 <LeeF> Next meeting: 2009-09-15 @ 15:00 BST / 10:00 EDT, Alex Passant to scribe (Scribe List) 14:08:25 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F2 14:09:04 <bijan> I might call in if reasonable. 14:09:13 <SteveH> I'm at risk 14:09:46 <SimonKJ> SimonKJ still fighting the approval process 14:10:08 <pgearon> The approval has to come from my manager, who has been conferencing and traveling a lot lately, so I've yet to hear 14:10:14 <chimezie> I might be able to call in for portions of the agenda 14:11:02 <SimonKJ> if I cannot make it in person I have scheduled the time so will definitely call in 14:12:00 <SteveH> SWIG 14:12:48 <kasei> hearing the echo here 14:13:47 <SimonKJ> direct all efforts to getting out the first public working draft; shooting for end of Sep but will likely slip into October 14:14:32 <chimezie> Im not certain i can state the additional 30 mins 14:14:39 <SteveH> I can't do 90 today 14:14:44 <chimezie> i.e., some days I'll be able to stay over - others not so much 14:14:44 <kasei> I may have trouble with the last few minutes (have to dash across campus to another meeting), but most of the extra 30 min should be OK. 14:14:45 <SimonKJ> to that end will schedule the next few teleconferences for 90mins rather than 60; who cannot make 90 14:15:14 <SimonKJ> will at least try to do a few in a row starting next week 14:15:39 <ericP> i will likely have conflicts from a couple weeks onwards 14:15:53 <bijan> OWL is finished CR and heading toward PR. 14:16:02 <bijan> XMLLiteral is no longer at risk, but accepted. 14:16:45 <ivanh> RDB2RDF should start any day (only admin left) 14:16:54 <LeeF> topic: FPWD Status Check 14:17:25 <LeeF> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/open 14:17:41 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-16 14:17:42 <trackbot> ACTION-16 Send fleshed out example of Andy's subquery to the list { {?x :p ?v } { SELECT * { ?x :q ?w FILTER (?v>3) } } } closed 14:17:52 <AndyS> Eric helped with CVS - actions 87 and 88 are done. 14:19:14 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-87 14:19:14 <trackbot> ACTION-87 Find the editor's draft of features and rats closed 14:19:18 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-88 14:19:18 <trackbot> ACTION-88 Figure out where to find SPARQL2 CVS edit space closed 14:19:42 <AndyS> Query doc is: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/ 14:20:09 <SteveH> I think we both answered, go andy 14:20:09 <Prateek> Prateek has joined #sparql 14:21:33 <AndyS> trackbot, close ACTION-84 14:21:33 <trackbot> ACTION-84 And SteveH to decide whether FPWD should be inegrated or only new features closed 14:23:22 <LeeF> ISSUE: Can variable used as aliases for expressions be themselves used in other expressions? 14:23:22 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-39 - Can variable used as aliases for expressions be themselves used in other expressions? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/39/edit . 14:23:24 <AndyS> Example : SELECT (?x+?y) AS ?z (?z+1) AS ?w 14:24:33 <chimezie> why not make it an issue then, since all we have is an 'issue' tracker 14:24:38 <chimezie> and note that we know a workaround 14:26:49 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to go through issues list, figure out status, which need to be discussed in TCs, which have pending actions, which can be resolved 14:26:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-89 - Go through issues list, figure out status, which need to be discussed in TCs, which have pending actions, which can be resolved [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2009-09-15]. 14:28:40 <ericP> q+ to ask if xmlspec variants are acceptable 14:28:45 <SimonKJ> we have editors for the SPARQL 11 update document and update language. 14:29:12 <ericP> 43 14:29:29 <SimonKJ> where does the work on RESTful operations, and correspondence to update protocol go? 14:29:59 <chimezie> how much administrative overhead do we introduce with separate docs/editors 14:30:02 <chimezie> ? 14:30:03 <SimonKJ> should RESTful operations go into the update language or in the protocol (reduce number of docs from 3 to 2) 14:30:13 <chimezie> if not much, seems putting them in one document makes sense to me 14:30:26 <SimonKJ> ericP in favor of separate documents as they seem orthogonal 14:30:48 <SimonS_> +1 to having separate documents 14:31:21 <bijan> Overhead : Maintaining links between, multiple documents for people to sort through, multiple documents to be reviewed and to engage with 14:31:26 <chimezie> s/putting them in one document/separating them 14:31:36 <bijan> Advantages : modular, can advance at different rates, etc. 14:33:03 <AndyS> Suggest separate docs at the moment, esp as content accumulated - can later merge in. Reverse is harder if has been published. 14:33:54 <ivanh> return format? 14:34:04 <chimezie> +1 on AndyS's argument for having the second option open at a later point 14:34:18 <ivanh> so the number is 6 or 7... 14:34:35 <ivanh> s/return/result/ 14:34:41 <bijan> But it's still "in our space" 14:35:00 <ivanh> json format? 14:35:54 <SimonKJ> if the JSON format is just a note, we still have it in our space and its still active (URL?) 14:36:26 <AndyS> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-json-res/ 14:37:15 <ericP> q 14:37:16 <ivanh> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-overview/ OWL Overivew document 14:37:41 <bijan> A good home page would be fine 14:37:44 <ericP> q+ to talk about XQuery/XSLT/F&O 14:37:55 <LeeF> ack ericP 14:37:55 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask if xmlspec variants are acceptable and to talk about XQuery/XSLT/F&O 14:38:01 <bijan> This image would be useful: http://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-overview/OWL2-structure2-800.png 14:38:53 <bijan> In OWL, the Wiki maintained cross links pretty well. but it's not just technical, it's editing, e.g., "see results format" 14:39:13 <ivanh> q+ 14:39:16 <AndyS> Info : The Q doc has a results example + link. 14:39:37 <LeeF> ack ivan 14:40:55 <bijan> Really!??!?! Won't they wave it for content that's been IPR reviewed!??! 14:42:29 <bijan> I'll note the HTML5 spec management tool: http://hg.gsnedders.com/anolis/raw-file/1.0RC1/README.html 14:43:21 <LeeF> (1) SPARQL/Query 1.1 (2) SPARQL/Update 1.0 (3) SPARQL/Protocol 1.1 (4) Service Description (5) RESTful Update operations (6) SPARQL + entailment 14:44:02 <AndyS> q+ to ask about 3 14:44:15 <AndyS> (as convenient) 14:44:24 <LeeF> ack AndyS 14:44:24 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about 3 14:44:36 <SimonKJ> proposing 6 documents to get us to FPWD, can argue in the future around the RESTful operations 14:45:59 <SimonKJ> updates to (3) raise the WSDL issue (AndyS?) 14:46:16 <AndyS> +1 to protocol 1.1 14:46:37 <SimonKJ> proposal to version (3) as 1.1 in keeping with the agreement for (1) 14:46:57 <SimonKJ> AndyS - want to expand on the issue? 14:47:15 <AndyS> After call? 14:47:16 <bijan> http://wiki.webont.org/page/SPARQL/OWL 14:49:23 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to work with Axel to find editors for protocol, service description, and RESTful Update operations this week 14:49:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-90 - Work with Axel to find editors for protocol, service description, and RESTful Update operations this week [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2009-09-15]. 14:51:08 <LeeF> topic: Custom aggregates 14:51:09 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0248.html 14:51:59 <SteveH> +1 to custom aggregates 14:52:37 <pgearon> I actually liked Andy's suggestion of marking functions that are aggregate functions 14:52:48 <pgearon> (even though other's didn't seem to enjoy the syntax) 14:53:06 <SteveH> Can't you always tell from the syntactic position? 14:53:12 <SteveH> eg. HAVING v's FILTER? 14:53:27 <pgearon> I'm just commenting on custom aggregate extensions here, not the standard ones 14:54:11 <SteveH> q+ 14:54:14 <chimezie> we may need some syntactic sugar 14:54:17 <pgearon> no, because standard functions could appear in HAVING (though not vice-versa) 14:54:20 <LeeF> ack SteveH 14:54:59 <pgearon> +q 14:55:05 <LeeF> ack pgearon 14:55:48 <chimezie> +1 readability 14:56:03 <SimonKJ> pgearon - issue is not about processing the HAVING clause, but readability 14:56:24 <AndyS> HAVING (fn:myFunction(agg:mycount(?x))) has an aggrgeate and a regular function 14:56:35 <SimonKJ> issue is that extension functions in a WHERE clause are relatively easy to understand, but in a HAVING clause may be harder to understand 14:59:05 <SteveH> I'm a 0 FWIW 14:59:28 <SteveH> if someone has a syntax that's not horrible I'd be more in favour 14:59:41 <SteveH> CUSTOM(uri, ...) would be less horrible 15:01:41 <SimonKJ> AndyS - where is the update spec? LeeF, an update of the doc is due a week from today 15:01:52 <ivanh> bye everybody 15:01:53 <SteveH> bye all 15:01:56 <SimonKJ> bye 15:01:57 <bglimm> bye 15:04:39 <bijan> Pointer to xml spec langauge? 15:05:08 <bijan> Anolis, I beleive, just uses IDs on elements. 15:05:40 <Zakim> -bijan 15:07:14 <AndyS> SimonKJ - WSDL? 15:08:05 <SimonKJ> AndyS - I assume this is a previous topic rearing up again, is there a link to the conversation? 15:08:38 <Zakim> -ericP 15:09:03 <AndyS> Not a specifc thread - was recurring issue for protocol because we seemed to be first to use WSDL for HTTP for a spec. 15:09:39 <AndyS> And to impl we less than many SOAP impls - it was (and is?) not popular for SPARQL. 15:11:52 <pgearon> quoll71 15:13:16 <AndyS> CEST 15:13:56 <AndyS> www.timeanddate.com 15:14:58 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended 15:14:59 <Zakim> Attendees were LeeF, +1.518.276.aaaa, kasei, AndyS, +1.312.863.aabb, swh, pgearon, Bijan, bglimm, SimonKJ, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Ivan, +49.261.287.aadd, ericP, SimonS_, +1.937.775.aaee # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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