Chatlog 2009-07-21

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13:54:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:54:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/21-sparql-irc
13:54:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:54:35 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:54:35 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:55:27 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:55:35 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
13:55:45 <Zakim> + +7.441.173.70.aabb
13:55:45 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aaaa is me
13:55:45 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
13:55:47 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
13:55:48 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
13:55:56 <LukeWM_> LukeWM_ has joined #sparql
13:55:56 <Zakim> - +7.441.173.70.aabb
13:55:58 <swh_> swh_ has joined #sparql
13:56:03 <Zakim> +john-l
13:56:11 <ericP> Zakim, please dail ericP-office
13:56:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please dail ericP-office', ericP
13:56:25 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
13:56:26 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
13:56:26 <Zakim> +EricP
13:56:29 <Zakim> + +7.441.173.70.aacc
13:56:55 <AxelPolleres> who dialed in from  +7 ?
13:57:02 <AndyS> zakim, aacc is me
13:57:02 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
13:57:05 <Zakim> + +200000aadd
13:57:08 <AndyS> It's the UK dialin
13:57:19 <Zakim> + +200000aaee
13:57:26 <alepas> Zakim, /200000aadd is me
13:57:26 <Zakim> sorry, alepas, I do not recognize a party named '/200000aadd'
13:57:34 <alepas> Zakim, +200000aadd is me
13:57:34 <Zakim> +alepas; got it
13:57:40 <AndyS> but zakim usually prints ??P foo for it.  I had to try twice to get in.
13:58:10 <Zakim> - +200000aaee
13:58:23 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #SPARQL
13:58:53 <SimonKJ> SimonKJ has joined #sparql
13:59:05 <Zakim> +kasei
13:59:09 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
13:59:09 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
13:59:30 <Zakim> + +0186528aaff
13:59:48 <Zakim> +ARonksley
13:59:56 <bglimm> Zakim, +0186528aaff
13:59:56 <Zakim> I don't understand '+0186528aaff', bglimm
14:00:06 <bglimm> Zakim, +0186528aaff is bglimm
14:00:06 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:00:18 <SteveH> can we find out which line were on?
14:00:19 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:00:19 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:00:28 <Ivan Herman> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:00:28 <Zakim> ok, Ivan Herman; the call is being made
14:00:29 <SteveH> what's the code for putting your hand up
14:00:33 <Zakim> +Ivan Herman
14:00:40 <LukeWM_> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, AndyS, alepas, kasei (muted), bglimm (muted), ARonksley, Ivan Herman
14:00:42 <AxelPolleres> Who is ARonksley?
14:00:56 <Zakim> + +1.919.663.aagg
14:01:10 <kjetil_> kjetil_ has joined #sparql
14:01:20 <SteveH> Zakim, ARonksley is [Garlik]
14:01:20 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it
14:01:27 <SimonKJ> Zakim, +1.919.663.aagg is SimonKJ
14:01:28 <Zakim> +SimonKJ; got it
14:01:30 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH LukeWM_ 
14:01:30 <Zakim> +SteveH, LukeWM_; got it
14:01:31 <AxelPolleres> ack ARonklsey
14:01:34 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:01:43 <SteveH> q-
14:01:46 <SteveH> q=
14:01:51 <SteveH> q?
14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:02:00 <SteveH> queue=
14:02:05 <bglimm> ack ARonksley
14:02:07 <SteveH> queue=""
14:02:08 <Zakim> +alepas.a
14:02:23 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, AndyS, alepas, kasei (muted), bglimm (muted), [Garlik], Ivan, SimonKJ, alepas.a
14:02:29 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM_
14:02:45 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-07-21
14:03:02 <kjetil_> Zakim, who is talking
14:03:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', kjetil_
14:03:11 <SteveH> scribenick SteveH 
14:03:15 <kjetil_> Zakim, who is talking?
14:03:16 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Steve Harris
14:03:25 <Zakim> kjetil_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (12%), alepas.a (6%), Ivan Herman (4%)
14:03:37 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:03:39 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, alepas.a is kjetil
14:03:39 <Zakim> +kjetil; got it
14:03:49 <kjetil_> Zakim, alepas.a is me
14:03:49 <Zakim> sorry, kjetil_, I do not recognize a party named 'alepas.a'
14:04:38 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14
14:04:45 <SteveH> accept last minutes?
14:04:53 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14
14:05:11 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-14
14:05:35 <Prateek> Prateek has joined #sparql
14:05:53 <SteveH> ericP to scribe next week, but at risk for next 2 meetings
14:06:11 <kjetil_> Zakim: mute me
14:06:23 <SteveH> greg to scribe is eric not available
14:06:32 <Zakim> +Prateek
14:07:09 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: phase II charter, finalised just now, should go next week
14:07:26 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: should take effect sept 1st
14:07:33 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:07:35 <Ivan Herman> s/next week/this week/
14:07:45 <SteveH> queue=
14:07:58 <SteveH> vacation plans
14:08:27 <SteveH> wiki page?
14:08:40 <SteveH> ACTION: AxelPolleres to setup wiki page
14:08:40 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - AxelPolleres
14:09:10 <SteveH> ACTION: Axel to setup wiki page to capture vacation times
14:09:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Setup wiki page to capture vacation times [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-07-28].
14:09:25 <SteveH> Liassons
14:09:32 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:09:33 <SteveH> no news from OWL
14:09:35 <ericP> nothing from HCLS
14:09:46 <SteveH> nothing from XQuery
14:09:54 <SteveH> nothing from RIF
14:10:07 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:10:07 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
14:10:09 <SteveH> nothing from RDB2RDF
14:10:21 <SteveH> Actions...
14:11:44 <SteveH> SPARQL Update reviews were done
14:12:18 <SteveH> ericP: I have implemented SPARUL a coulpe of times
14:12:32 <SteveH> ericP: went a bit beyond the draft, with [some stuff couldn't hear]
14:12:38 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Eric to add review/experiences on SPARQL/update
14:12:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Add review/experiences on SPARQL/update [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-28].
14:13:33 <SteveH> kjetil_: action 58 is done
14:14:34 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0061.html
14:15:49 <SimonKJ> on #60, I didn't follow up on Kjetil's mail as I thought it, and Andy's response, summarized things well and I didn't feel I could add anything
14:15:56 <SteveH> SPARQL/Update
14:16:07 <kjetil_> SimonKJ: ok, that's fine
14:16:28 <SteveH> AlexPassant: ok with the submission
14:16:48 <SteveH> AlexPassant: INSERT two forms, feels that it would be easier for the end user to only have one
14:17:08 <SteveH> AlexPassant: Add ing a MOVE keyword would be more convienient
14:17:23 <SteveH> AlexPassant: [seomthing] would be better in the protocol than the language
14:17:37 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0069.html
14:18:06 <AlexPassant> s/[seomthing]/SILENT
14:18:16 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0073.html
14:18:25 <SteveH> LukeWM_, no strong opinions
14:18:36 <SteveH> LukeWM_, thought INSERT/UPDATE would be better in protocol?
14:18:57 <SteveH> LukeWM_, there are a bunch of verbs no clear when you can use WHERE etc.
14:19:05 <SteveH> LukeWM_, not clear when you should use MODIFY
14:19:33 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: hoping for comments on that review
14:19:55 <SteveH> ericP: people can rework grammars
14:20:10 <AxelPolleres> Eric, pointer to grammar tool to extend change the grammar.
14:20:11 <SteveH> AndyS: is it the same one in the submissions
14:20:21 <SteveH> ericP: no, it's the same as the one in the comment
14:20:23 <ericP> all of my comments are in http://www.w3.org/Submission/2008/04/Comment
14:20:50 <SteveH> sorry, those LukeWM_,'s should be :'s
14:21:07 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARUL_EGP?lang=perl&markup=html
14:21:18 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2005/01/yacker/uploads/SPARUL?lang=perl&markup=html
14:21:33 <SteveH> ericP, tweaked version of grammar
14:21:40 <SteveH> ericP: tweaked version of grammar
14:21:54 <LukeWM_> looks really useful, ericP
14:22:00 <SteveH> ericP: can try tweaking the grammar and see if it  still works
14:22:34 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0076.html
14:22:52 <SteveH> SimonKJ: transactions, good to be clear upfront that transactions are out of scope
14:23:11 <SteveH> SimonKJ: if youre a SQL dev. then INSERT+DEL is normal, but in a transaction
14:23:21 <AxelPolleres> Simon, transactions missing for intuitive way to "MOVE"
14:23:24 <SteveH> SimonKJ: having a move would let us make it atomic
14:23:26 <SteveH> q+
14:23:36 <SteveH> SimonKJ: same concerns about INSERT two forms
14:23:44 <SteveH> SimonKJ: went from not liking to neutral
14:24:10 <SteveH> SimonKJ: on UPDATE there is some wording around graphs existing or not, should eb consistent
14:24:21 <SteveH> SimonKJ: add some wording to sections that dont mention
14:24:35 <SteveH> SimonKJ: CLEAR needs some expansion, "does not remove graph"
14:24:38 <AxelPolleres> SimonKJ: What happens on updates on non-existing graphs?
14:24:49 <SteveH> SimonKJ: security seems to be out of band
14:25:00 <SteveH> SimonKJ: will be important in the protocol
14:25:09 <AxelPolleres> ack SteveH
14:25:18 <Zakim> -kjetil
14:26:11 <AxelPolleres> (steve pls summarize your comment on IRC I possible)
14:27:28 <kjetil_> kjetil_ has joined #sparql
14:27:38 <SteveH> AndyS: MOVE gives the impl. more scope to impose atomicity
14:27:41 <AxelPolleres> Andy: It is more an implementation issue how to support atomicity.
14:28:08 <AndyS> q+ to make a meta point
14:28:11 <Zakim> +[Garlik.a]
14:28:15 <SteveH> q-
14:28:26 <SimonKJ> if SteveH could comment on email we can pick up the discussion there
14:28:48 <AndyS> q-
14:28:55 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: suggest that we confirm to use SPARUL as the basis for SPARQL/Update
14:29:02 <ericP> +1
14:29:08 <SteveH> +1
14:29:09 <kjetil_> +1
14:29:32 <Ivan Herman> +1
14:29:39 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:29:42 <kasei> +1
14:29:42 <SteveH> what does "formally" mean in this case?
14:29:44 <AlexPassant> +1
14:29:45 <bglimm> +1
14:29:53 <AndyS> +1
14:30:00 <chimezie> +1
14:30:08 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Base "SPARQL/Update" on the SPARQL/Update submission
14:30:12 <Ivan Herman> =1
14:30:14 <Ivan Herman> +1
14:30:16 <AxelPolleres> +1
14:30:36 <SteveH> no objections, no abstentions
14:30:41 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Base "SPARQL/Update" on the SPARQL/Update submission
14:30:52 <AndyS> I think there is a significant amount of work to be done (e.g. formal model, do graphs exists at all times, MOVE, ...)
14:31:23 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: Andy has some points to raise
14:31:44 <AxelPolleres> AndyS: formal model missing
14:31:45 <kjetil_> q+
14:31:49 <SteveH> AndyS: there's no formal model of what's going on, have to create a structure
14:32:00 <AxelPolleres> ... emtpy graphs issue
14:32:03 <SteveH> AndyS: do graphs exist without triples etc.
14:32:07 <Ivan Herman> q+
14:32:17 <SteveH> AndyS: can you mix queries and updates, how do they work together
14:32:30 <SteveH> AndyS: something we would concoiusly decide not to do
14:32:43 <SteveH> AndyS: ASK in update
14:32:50 <AxelPolleres> ... can you mix queries and updates in one operation?
14:32:50 <SteveH> Subslect is maybe a better example
14:33:04 <SteveH> AxelPolleres, WHEREs?
14:33:23 <SteveH> AndyS: eg. only apply some update under these conditions
14:33:40 <SteveH> AndyS: could have an ASK to fail some request depending on result
14:33:57 <ericP> q?
14:34:12 <SteveH> AndyS: there are issues like this that need to be covered, need to be sure were solving the right problem
14:34:16 <AxelPolleres> ack kjetil
14:34:36 <SteveH> kjetil_: some of the comments, I agree with, to MODIFY verb, do we need it?
14:34:41 <AxelPolleres> (sounds like an issue to me)
14:34:58 <ericP> AndyS, do your ASK {  } INSERT {... } scenarios require a super-language anyways?
14:35:08 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:35:24 <AndyS> EricP, you mean SPARQL/Scripting? :-)
14:35:30 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: wondering whether the changes we plan on the QL, what effect will they have on the update lang
14:35:36 <kjetil_> I also feel that DELETE is a bit verbose and could be simplified
14:35:52 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: project expressions etc. do they affect the update language
14:35:52 <AxelPolleres> also sounds like an issue.
14:35:55 <kjetil_> I think it is quite close to a FP WD, but Last Call is further away
14:36:09 <AndyS> +1 to kjetil_
14:36:14 <LukeWM_> q+
14:36:23 <AxelPolleres> ack Ivan Herman
14:36:24 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: difficut to put as an issue
14:36:43 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: whenever we discuss adding to query lang, whether it could affect update
14:36:48 <AxelPolleres> ack LukeWM
14:37:07 <SteveH> LukeWM_: I think Ivan Herman has a point, worried about inference, has someone else had expereince
14:37:28 <SteveH> AndyS: it ruins your post conditions, you can delete triples but still there
14:37:41 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: what's the equivalent of subquery?
14:38:25 <SteveH> AndyS: not sure which way round, "can you have subselects inside" where, and "select which has an insert inside it" or "nested inserts and deletes"
14:38:32 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: the second one
14:39:02 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: we need a draft on the table, in order to get interactions
14:39:16 <SteveH> q?
14:39:45 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:39:45 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
14:39:49 <SteveH> looking for volunteer
14:40:03 <SteveH> to summarise issues that have come up
14:40:25 <LukeWM_> +1 to wikipage
14:40:26 <SteveH> ericP: what about a wiki page
14:40:28 <SteveH> +1
14:41:09 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: start wikipage on Update issues
14:41:09 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - start
14:41:20 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Luke to start wikipage on Update issues
14:41:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - Start wikipage on Update issues [on Luke Wilson-Mawer - due 2009-07-28].
14:42:09 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: timeline towards FPWD, in charter we'll have tight timeline, should have FPWD by end of Sept. 
14:42:22 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: in next week or so should identify editors
14:42:39 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: base on update submission to draft new document
14:43:02 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: all issues in draft in next few months, need reviewers etc.
14:43:30 <SteveH> need to draft new features in sparql/query
14:43:33 <kjetil_> could we have a straw poll on HTTP REST Update?
14:43:40 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Template:DesignQL
14:43:55 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: template to help draft extensions
14:44:07 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: should lead to draft of sparql/query
14:44:24 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: volunteers for features
14:44:44 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: people championed features, and filed out strawman
14:44:56 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: recruit as subsection editors
14:45:04 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: do people think that's a good approach
14:45:16 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:45:43 <SteveH> might do subquery
14:45:49 <SteveH> time permitting
14:45:54 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:SubSelect
14:46:30 <kjetil_> I hope to write test cases if we continue our W3C membership
14:46:33 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: people responsible for those sections
14:47:19 <SteveH> project expresions...
14:47:52 <SteveH> aggregates...
14:48:02 <SteveH> chimezie: I'll volunteer
14:48:12 <SteveH> first strawman in 2 weeks
14:48:15 <SteveH> negation...
14:48:26 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: lots of discussion already
14:48:30 <SteveH> AndyS: will do negation
14:48:39 <SteveH> ericP: I was about to
14:48:59 <SteveH> ericP: project exp. tied closely with subselect
14:49:15 <SteveH> ericP: it might improve my attitude
14:49:28 <SteveH> ericP to do project expressions
14:49:44 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: plan is to have draft on wiki under templates in 2 weeks
14:49:46 <AxelPolleres> q?
14:50:08 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: steve to draft subqueries in template
14:50:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-64 - Draft subqueries in template [on Steve Harris - due 2009-07-28].
14:50:20 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Eric to draft project expressions
14:50:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-65 - Draft project expressions [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-28].
14:50:31 <SteveH> due date is wrong
14:50:32 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to draft aggregates
14:50:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-66 - Draft aggregates [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2009-07-28].
14:50:50 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Andy to draft negation 
14:50:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-67 - Draft negation  [on Andy Seaborne - due 2009-07-28].
14:51:05 <SteveH> ericP: what form of negation are we talking about?
14:51:11 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: good question
14:51:19 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: that's not been decided
14:51:23 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:51:23 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
14:51:28 <SteveH> ericP: would be decided by who drafted it
14:51:40 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: should we discuss it before we draft it out
14:52:15 <SteveH> ericP: the working group understands the two problems fairly well, still at wiki stage, until we select one we can't put it into draft
14:52:29 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: can we reach agreement on that in the time remaining
14:52:57 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: wither draft something pointing out both options, how either would work, or...
14:53:09 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: but could put on agenda for next week
14:53:34 <SteveH> ericP: I prefer to keep sketching in the place where it is now
14:53:41 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Template:DesignQL
14:53:45 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: actions are to put it into design templates
14:53:46 <Zakim> -[Garlik.a]
14:54:04 <SteveH> ericP: prefer not to put it there yet, better to discuss on wiki
14:54:20 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: all the drafts go into feature sketch places?
14:54:31 <SteveH> ericP: good trackability
14:54:49 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: the idea of templates is to bring into existing spec structure
14:55:17 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: seems that negation is still a bit open, maybe good discussion for next week
14:55:27 <SteveH> AndyS: what are you hoping to achieve
14:55:34 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: agreement on which way to go
14:55:45 <SteveH> AndyS: email seemed to peter out
14:56:16 <SteveH> AndyS: more support from people not dealing with theory for FILTER, waiting for discussion to complete
14:56:29 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: waiting for clarification
14:56:49 <SteveH> ericP: AndyS was going to write down algebra for FILTER, ericP was going to work out MINUS approach
14:56:55 <SteveH> q+
14:56:56 <AndyS> Andy has done that.
14:57:14 <SteveH> ericP will do algebra for FILTER approach
14:57:18 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Eric to sketch algebra for minus.
14:57:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Sketch algebra for minus. [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-28].
14:57:40 <SteveH> AndyS: one of the important questions is are there any usecases where MINUS can express things that FILTER can't
14:57:47 <AxelPolleres> AndyS: Are ther use cases where minus can express what unsaid can't?
14:57:52 <SteveH> AndyS: what real usecases are we trying to address
14:58:17 <kjetil_> kjetil_ has joined #sparql
14:58:23 <SteveH> ericP: I hear pushback from people who like monotonic from people who like NAF
14:58:57 <SteveH> ericP: in terms of what you can express, if you do a set minus, where it's close to a relational set minus, then there are a case where !bounds have a particular effect
14:59:07 <AxelPolleres> Eric, can you point us to the email with the example?
14:59:10 <Zakim> +[Garlik.a]
14:59:11 <AndyS> q+ to ask where eric heard that
14:59:12 <SteveH> ericP: it comes down to what happens when you've got optionals that aren't bound on the outside
14:59:24 <SteveH> ericP: in the general case their identical
14:59:35 <AxelPolleres> ack SteveH
14:59:53 <LukeWM_> I can scribe for steve ...
15:00:02 <Ivan Herman> q+ a side issue for the minutes...
15:00:05 <AxelPolleres> SteveH: people who don't care about theory mostly care about theory?
15:00:16 <AxelPolleres> s/about theory/about syntax/
15:00:17 <Ivan Herman> q+ to report a side issue before he has to go
15:00:35 <LukeWM_> AndyS: can you back that up?
15:01:06 <kjetil_> q+ to ask about completion of F&R
15:01:28 <SteveH> AndyS: wanted to ask ericP where he was getting pushback from
15:01:37 <SteveH> ericP: from experience of previous WG
15:01:49 <SteveH> ericP: when we have UNSAID we had objections
15:01:57 <SteveH> AndyS but we didn't have minus at that time
15:02:04 <SteveH> AndyS: but we didn't have minus at that time
15:02:15 <SteveH> ericP: it's easier to express that to them as it's this minus that
15:02:25 <SteveH> ericP: I think it would be a more appealing algebra
15:02:51 <Ivan Herman> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2009JulSep/0013.html
15:02:52 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: ericP can you elaborate on the usecase differences
15:03:04 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: charter call has just gone out
15:03:04 <AxelPolleres> Charter call has gone out.
15:03:13 <SteveH> Ivan Herman: get your AC reps to vote
15:03:18 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:03:22 <Ivan Herman> q-
15:03:25 <AndyS> q-
15:03:27 <kjetil_> when is the deadline for voting?
15:03:29 <kjetil_> ack me
15:03:29 <Zakim> kjetil_, you wanted to ask about completion of F&R
15:03:39 <Zakim> -Ivan Herman
15:03:39 <AxelPolleres> ack kjetil
15:03:41 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:03:52 <SteveH> kjetil_: completion of F&R
15:04:02 <SteveH> kjetil_: do we have any plan for the completion
15:04:08 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: on agenda for next time
15:04:25 <SteveH> kjetil_: I'm officialy on vacation next week, but will be there
15:04:35 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: time permitting features
15:05:15 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: will need to work independently, not spend much telecon time until we've addressed the required features
15:05:17 <kjetil_> AxelPolleres: also, would be nice to have a straw-man poll on HTTP RESTful Update :-)
15:05:37 <kjetil_> AxelPolleres, also, would be nice to have a straw-man poll on HTTP RESTful Update :-)
15:05:40 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: have a look at features and consider joining taskforces where you're interested
15:05:58 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: RESTful updates, we have to discuss
15:06:01 <SteveH> next week
15:06:13 <Zakim> -SimonKJ
15:06:15 <Zakim> -john-l
15:06:16 <Zakim> -[Garlik]
15:06:18 <Zakim> -[Garlik.a]
15:06:19 <Zakim> -alepas
15:06:28 <Zakim> -bglimm
15:06:51 <AndyS> http://jena.sourceforge.net/ARQ/service.html
15:07:05 <Zakim> -Prateek
15:07:40 <SteveH> AxelPolleres, what needs to be done to make the minutes visible?
15:08:07 <LukeWM> LukeWM has joined #sparql
15:10:22 <AndyS> SERVICE <http://sparql.org/books>
15:10:22 <AndyS>  { pattern }
15:10:56 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to update deadlines of design draft actions.
15:10:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Update deadlines of design draft actions. [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-07-28].
15:10:56 <AndyS> FETCH <http://sparql.org/booksGraph>
15:11:02 <Ivan Herman> Ivan Herman has left #sparql
15:11:06 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, list attendees
15:11:06 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +3539149aaaa, +7.441.173.70.aabb, AxelPolleres, john-l, EricP, +7.441.173.70.aacc, AndyS, +200000aaee, alepas, kasei, bglimm, Ivan Herman,
15:11:09 <Zakim> ... SimonKJ, SteveH, LukeWM_, Chimezie_Ogbuji, kjetil, Prateek, [Garlik]
15:11:18 <AndyS> FETCH ?g
15:11:59 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/07/21-sparql-minutes.html AxelPolleres
15:12:07 <AndyS> http://seaborne.blogspot.com/2008/10/walking-web.html
15:12:11 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make minutes public
15:12:11 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', AxelPolleres.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:12:30 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make public minutes 
15:12:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make public minutes ', AxelPolleres.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:13:13 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
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