SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 02 October 2012

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-10-02
Seen
Andy Seaborne, Arthur Keen, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Carlos Buil Aranda, Chimezie Ogbuji, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gregory Williams, Lee Feigenbaum, Matthew Perry, Olivier Corby, Paul Gearon, Sandro Hawke, Steve Harris
Chair
Lee Feigenbaum
Scribe
Sandro Hawke
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-09-25 link
  2. Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR link
  3. It's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request. Remove test 53. At some point in the future, add negative syntax test. link
  4. Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR contingent on the text changes to note that it's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request link
  5. Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml as PR contingent on acknowledgement of response to RV-10 and contingent on ACTION-692 and ACTION-693 completion link
  6. Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/json-results/json-results.xml as PR link
  7. Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/csv-tsv-results/results-csv-tsv.html as PR link
  8. Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/Overview.xml as PR link
Topics
13:56:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/02-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/02-sparql-irc

13:57:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

13:57:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

13:57:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

13:57:04 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:57:04 <trackbot> Date: 02 October 2012
13:57:12 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL

13:57:12 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

13:57:14 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-10-02
13:57:16 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
13:57:24 <LeeF> zakim, code?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, code?

13:57:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), LeeF

13:57:56 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

13:58:03 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.310.729.aaaa

13:58:08 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

13:58:11 <kasei> Zakim, aaaa is me

Gregory Williams: Zakim, aaaa is me

13:58:11 <Zakim> +kasei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it

13:58:23 <Zakim> + +1.617.553.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.553.aabb

13:58:26 <LeeF> zakim, aabb is me

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, aabb is me

13:58:26 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF; got it

13:59:30 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.96.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.4.92.96.aacc

14:00:01 <Olivier> zakim, aacc is me

Olivier Corby: zakim, aacc is me

14:00:01 <Zakim> +Olivier; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Olivier; got it

14:00:04 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aadd

14:00:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:00:19 <Zakim> +??P7

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7

14:00:19 <MattPerry> zakim, aadd is me

Matthew Perry: zakim, aadd is me

14:00:20 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry; got it

14:00:25 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPcaller is me

14:00:25 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:00:33 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P7 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P7 is me

14:00:33 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it

14:00:35 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:00:58 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

14:01:00 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P13 is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P13 is me

14:01:00 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it

14:01:24 <Zakim> + +49.897.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.897.aaee

14:01:40 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aaee is probably me

Axel Polleres: Zakim, aaee is probably me

14:01:40 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres; got it

14:01:51 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

14:02:18 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:02:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, EricP, LeeF, Olivier, MattPerry, AndyS, SteveH, Sandro, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, EricP, LeeF, Olivier, MattPerry, AndyS, SteveH, Sandro, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, pgearon

14:02:54 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

14:03:06 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone?

14:03:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, EricP, LeeF, Olivier, MattPerry, AndyS, SteveH, Sandro, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, pgearon, ??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, EricP, LeeF, Olivier, MattPerry, AndyS, SteveH, Sandro, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, pgearon, ??P19

14:03:07 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P19 is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, ??P19 is me

14:03:08 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

14:03:25 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, it;s really me!

Axel Polleres: Zakim, it;s really me!

14:03:25 <Zakim> I don't understand 'it;s really me!', AxelPolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'it;s really me!', AxelPolleres

14:03:27 <Zakim> +Chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: +Chimezie

14:03:34 <kasei> Zakim, who is talking?

Gregory Williams: Zakim, who is talking?

14:03:45 <Zakim> kasei, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

14:03:46 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:03:46 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

14:04:13 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me

14:04:13 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted

14:04:17 <AndyS> greg - where in the test suite are these?

Andy Seaborne: greg - where in the test suite are these?

14:04:35 <sandro> scribe: sandro

(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)

14:04:35 <LeeF> scribenick: sandro
14:04:39 <LeeF> topic: admin

1. admin

14:04:40 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me

14:04:40 <Zakim> Chimezie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie should now be muted

14:04:47 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to clean up the scribelist

ACTION: axel to clean up the scribelist

14:04:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-689 - Clean up the scribelist [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-689 - Clean up the scribelist [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-09].

14:04:47 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-09-25

PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-09-25

14:05:22 <sandro> +1

+1

14:05:28 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-09-25

RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-09-25

14:05:41 <kasei> AndyS, grepping I see agg tests (avg-02, err-02, min-0[12]), coalesce01, plus-1 and plus-2

Gregory Williams: AndyS, grepping I see agg tests (avg-02, err-02, min-0[12]), coalesce01, plus-1 and plus-2

14:06:12 <sandro> lee: no open comments for query, right?

Lee Feigenbaum: no open comments for query, right?

14:06:23 <sandro> andy: comments page is up to date, and shows nothing open.

Andy Seaborne: comments page is up to date, and shows nothing open.

14:06:56 <sandro> lee: tests?

Lee Feigenbaum: tests?

14:06:59 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/

14:07:12 <sandro> ericP, I hear plh in the background

ericP, I hear plh in the background

14:07:54 <sandro> lee: Based on the feedback, do any of the query tests need to change?

Lee Feigenbaum: Based on the feedback, do any of the query tests need to change?

14:08:15 <sandro> eric: It seems like the goal is to have the generated values be in the canonical form?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: It seems like the goal is to have the generated values be in the canonical form?

14:08:22 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#decimal-lexical-representation

Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#decimal-lexical-representation

14:08:37 <sandro> eric: So, looking at this, I see the text.....

Eric Prud'hommeaux: So, looking at this, I see the text.....

14:08:37 <sandro> q+

q+

14:08:42 <ericP>  In all cases, leading and trailing zeroes are prohibited subject to the following:  there must be at least one digit to the right and to the left of the decimal point which may be a zero.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: In all cases, leading and trailing zeroes are prohibited subject to the following: there must be at least one digit to the right and to the left of the decimal point which may be a zero.

14:08:57 <sandro> eric: This text says to me there should be a trailing zero.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: This text says to me there should be a trailing zero.

14:09:43 <sandro> AndyS:in the algorithms section, it says if an integer, then use ... map, without decimal point

Andy Seaborne: in the algorithms section, it says if an integer, then use ... map, without decimal point

14:10:21 <sandro> sandro: Eric, is this about the specs or the test suite?

Sandro Hawke: Eric, is this about the specs or the test suite?

14:10:24 <AndyS> NB "xmlschema11-2/#decimal-lexical-representation" is different to the email ref of EricP

Andy Seaborne: NB "xmlschema11-2/#decimal-lexical-representation" is different to the email ref of EricP

14:11:02 <sandro> eric: If the spec allows any valid lex rep, then, no, this isnt about the spec.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: If the spec allows any valid lex rep, then, no, this isnt about the spec.

14:11:49 <AxelPolleres> I think we define result set equivalence by RDF simple entailment...http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#queryevaltests

Axel Polleres: I think we define result set equivalence by RDF simple entailment...http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#queryevaltests

14:12:08 <sandro> sandro: I'm proposing this as a post-PR test suite cleanup thing.

Sandro Hawke: I'm proposing this as a post-PR test suite cleanup thing.

14:12:08 <AxelPolleres> ... not more, not less.

Axel Polleres: ... not more, not less.

14:12:28 <sandro> eric: I don't see how people can pass the tests like this.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: I don't see how people can pass the tests like this.

14:12:44 <sandro> lee: We have impls that *do* pass, which is evidence to the contrary.

Lee Feigenbaum: We have impls that *do* pass, which is evidence to the contrary.

14:12:55 <sandro> eric: What result set do we get?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: What result set do we get?

14:13:29 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

14:13:39 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

14:13:39 <sandro> eric: Were the tests passed by human intervention?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Were the tests passed by human intervention?

14:14:11 <sandro> kasei: Everyone already has that burden, because we're not providing a test harness.

Gregory Williams: Everyone already has that burden, because we're not providing a test harness.

14:14:48 <sandro> kasei: We can't assume things here -- we don't control how import is done, or when/how/if canonicallization is done.

Gregory Williams: We can't assume things here -- we don't control how import is done, or when/how/if canonicallization is done.

14:14:49 <AxelPolleres> q+

Axel Polleres: q+

14:15:02 <sandro> sandro: Is that written down -- that the tests are numeric equivalence.

Sandro Hawke: Is that written down -- that the tests are numeric equivalence.

14:15:06 <sandro> q-

q-

14:15:11 <bglimm> q+

Birte Glimm: q+

14:15:12 <sandro> lee: Let's take an action to document and move on.

Lee Feigenbaum: Let's take an action to document and move on.

14:15:29 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#howto would be a good place to document this.

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#howto would be a good place to document this.

14:15:33 <Zakim> + +1.512.651.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.512.651.aaff

14:15:34 <sandro> eric: I'd like to resolve whether a zero is needed, but we can do that later.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: I'd like to resolve whether a zero is needed, but we can do that later.

14:15:51 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres

14:16:05 <ArthurK> Zakim, +1.512.651.aaff is me

Arthur Keen: Zakim, +1.512.651.aaff is me

14:16:05 <Zakim> +ArthurK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ArthurK; got it

14:16:24 <bglimm> ack bglimm

Birte Glimm: ack bglimm

14:16:42 <LeeF> ACTION: Axel and Lee to document expectation of comparing numeric results in test results in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#howto

ACTION: Axel and Lee to document expectation of comparing numeric results in test results in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#howto

14:16:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-690 - And Lee to document expectation of comparing numeric results in test results in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#howto [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-690 - And Lee to document expectation of comparing numeric results in test results in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#howto [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-09].

14:17:20 <sandro> lee: Eric, any other problems you found?

Lee Feigenbaum: Eric, any other problems you found?

14:17:41 <sandro> eric: one of the other tests, mentioned in my email, gives a result that's very hard to explain.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: one of the other tests, mentioned in my email, gives a result that's very hard to explain.

14:17:52 <sandro> eric: graph constraint on outside of subselect.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: graph constraint on outside of subselect.

14:18:43 <sandro> eric: graph constraint on outside of graph constraint is done via a stack of graph constraints.    but for subquery (and maybe service?) is you preserve the graph constraint.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: graph constraint on outside of graph constraint is done via a stack of graph constraints. but for subquery (and maybe service?) is you preserve the graph constraint.

14:18:56 <kasei> sq03.rq: graph ?g { {select ?x where {?x ?p ?g}} }

Gregory Williams: sq03.rq: graph ?g { {select ?x where {?x ?p ?g}} }

14:20:24 <sandro> lee: I propose this is a corner case, unlikely to come up in practice.   you wont have to teach this.   I propose to change nothing.

Lee Feigenbaum: I propose this is a corner case, unlikely to come up in practice. you wont have to teach this. I propose to change nothing.

14:20:49 <sandro> eric: i just wanted to see if this resonates with anyone

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i just wanted to see if this resonates with anyone

14:20:56 <sandro> lee: you want to remove the test?

Lee Feigenbaum: you want to remove the test?

14:21:19 <sandro> eric: we could say the graph constraint,   { ... { ...      we could have the same behavior.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we could say the graph constraint, { ... { ... we could have the same behavior.

14:21:29 <sandro> lee: we're not open to a substantive change at this point.

Lee Feigenbaum: we're not open to a substantive change at this point.

14:22:25 <sandro> sandro: this is out of order, too late eric

Sandro Hawke: this is out of order, too late eric

14:22:33 <sandro> eric: no, this is implementation feedback.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: no, this is implementation feedback.

14:22:44 <sandro> eric: (argument from email)

Eric Prud'hommeaux: (argument from email)

14:23:14 <sandro> lee: personally, I'd object to that change, as unintuitive to me.    a subquery inside a graph constraint, I can't see why I'd want anything else.

Lee Feigenbaum: personally, I'd object to that change, as unintuitive to me. a subquery inside a graph constraint, I can't see why I'd want anything else.

14:23:22 <sandro> lee: anyone support eric's proposal

Lee Feigenbaum: anyone support eric's proposal

14:23:27 <sandro> <crickets>

<crickets>

14:23:40 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR

PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR

14:23:49 <kasei> +1

Gregory Williams: +1

14:23:50 <AxelPolleres> I agree that this is a corner case, were there might be different opinions, but the test case clarifies what behaviour the group expects.

Axel Polleres: I agree that this is a corner case, were there might be different opinions, but the test case clarifies what behaviour the group expects.

14:23:53 <sandro> +1

+1

14:23:53 <AxelPolleres> +1

Axel Polleres: +1

14:23:55 <Olivier> +1

Olivier Corby: +1

14:24:00 <bglimm> +1

Birte Glimm: +1

14:24:01 <AndyS> +1 ASF

Andy Seaborne: +1 ASF

14:24:04 <chimezie> +1

Chimezie Ogbuji: +1

14:24:07 <MattPerry> +1

Matthew Perry: +1

14:24:08 <pgearon> +1

Paul Gearon: +1

14:24:14 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

14:24:16 <SteveH> +1

Steve Harris: +1

14:24:22 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR

RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR

14:24:33 <cbuilara> +1

Carlos Buil Aranda: +1

14:24:40 <LeeF> topic: Update

2. Update

14:24:56 <AxelPolleres> RV-10

Axel Polleres: RV-10

14:26:40 <sandro> axel: somewhat arguable results.    I proposed test cases yesterday, there were some opinions.

Axel Polleres: somewhat arguable results. I proposed test cases yesterday, there were some opinions.

14:26:59 <sandro> lee: steve and olivier think...      andy thinks......

Lee Feigenbaum: steve and olivier think... andy thinks......

14:27:18 <sandro> lee: Did the commenter (Rob) express a preference here?

Lee Feigenbaum: Did the commenter (Rob) express a preference here?

14:27:20 <SteveH> steve and olivier think it should be different bnodes, and thinks the same

Steve Harris: steve and olivier think it should be different bnodes, and thinks the same

14:27:28 <SteveH> *andy

Steve Harris: *andy

14:27:30 <LeeF> INSERT DATA { ... _:b1 ... } ; INSERT DATA { ... _:b1 ... }

Lee Feigenbaum: INSERT DATA { ... _:b1 ... } ; INSERT DATA { ... _:b1 ... }

14:27:33 <LeeF> One bnode or two?

Lee Feigenbaum: One bnode or two?

14:27:42 <ericP> lee: steve and olivier think that multiple inserts using the same blank node label should result in different bnodes. andy thinks it should be the same

Lee Feigenbaum: steve and olivier think that multiple inserts using the same blank node label should result in different bnodes. andy thinks it should be the same [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ]

14:28:04 <AndyS> Third option - ban it.

Andy Seaborne: Third option - ban it.

14:28:30 <LeeF> sandro: think i agree with Andy, based on discussion in RDF group and resolution that in its multigraph syntax, this would be the same blank node

Sandro Hawke: think i agree with Andy, based on discussion in RDF group and resolution that in its multigraph syntax, this would be the same blank node [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

14:28:52 <AxelPolleres> RV would expect something even "more different"  ... "distinct fresh blank nodes will be generated for each usage in each block."

Axel Polleres: RV would expect something even "more different" ... "distinct fresh blank nodes will be generated for each usage in each block."

14:28:57 <SteveH> I'm not sure there's a parllell with TriG, that more like within one ;

Steve Harris: I'm not sure there's a parllell with TriG, that more like within one ;

14:29:03 <sandro> lee: That RDF-WG argument has some weight for me, yes.

Lee Feigenbaum: That RDF-WG argument has some weight for me, yes.

14:29:09 <AndyS>  FYI: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/21

Andy Seaborne: FYI: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/21

14:29:30 <sandro> AxelPolleres: Rob (commenter) expects different ones, even in nested blocks.

Axel Polleres: Rob (commenter) expects different ones, even in nested blocks.

14:29:40 <kasei> I agree with Steve. TriG is more like GRAPH :g1 {} GRAPH ?g2 {}, not multiple operations in the same request.

Gregory Williams: I agree with Steve. TriG is more like GRAPH :g1 {} GRAPH ?g2 {}, not multiple operations in the same request.

14:29:40 <sandro> AxelPolleres: Which is not what we want, I think.

Axel Polleres: Which is not what we want, I think.

14:29:52 <sandro> SteveH: That's not how I recall it.   link to message?

Steve Harris: That's not how I recall it. link to message?

14:30:01 <sandro> bglimm: Is it because of the semicolon?

Birte Glimm: Is it because of the semicolon?

14:30:47 <sandro> lee: I've always thought of blank node labels as document scope.

Lee Feigenbaum: I've always thought of blank node labels as document scope.

14:30:56 <SteveH> +1 to strawpoll

Steve Harris: +1 to strawpoll

14:31:46 <AxelPolleres> q+ to answer on sandro

Axel Polleres: q+ to answer on sandro

14:31:51 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres

14:31:51 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to answer on sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: AxelPolleres, you wanted to answer on sandro

14:32:11 <SteveH> sando gave the argument that convinced the RDF-WG

Steve Harris: sando gave the argument that convinced the RDF-WG

14:32:21 <sandro> sandro: I think the RDF-WG was swayed by the notion of serializing a dataset with shared blank nodes between graphs.

Sandro Hawke: I think the RDF-WG was swayed by the notion of serializing a dataset with shared blank nodes between graphs.

14:32:46 <LeeF> straw poll: do the occurrences of _:b1 in  "INSERT DATA { ... _:b1 ... } ; INSERT DATA { ... _:b1 ... }" refer to ONE blank node or TWO blank nodes?

Lee Feigenbaum: straw poll: do the occurrences of _:b1 in "INSERT DATA { ... _:b1 ... } ; INSERT DATA { ... _:b1 ... }" refer to ONE blank node or TWO blank nodes?

14:32:47 <sandro> AxelPolleres: This is different -- you can do that, with one request with multiply GRAPH clauses.

Axel Polleres: This is different -- you can do that, with one request with multiply GRAPH clauses.

14:32:51 <sandro> sandro: ah, okay.

Sandro Hawke: ah, okay.

14:33:05 <pgearon> two

Paul Gearon: two

14:33:08 <SteveH> two

Steve Harris: two

14:33:10 <AndyS> one blank - or ban it.

Andy Seaborne: one blank - or ban it.

14:33:13 <chimezie> one

Chimezie Ogbuji: one

14:33:14 <sandro> one

one

14:33:15 <ericP> one

Eric Prud'hommeaux: one

14:33:16 <bglimm> two (slight preference)

Birte Glimm: two (slight preference)

14:33:18 <MattPerry> one

Matthew Perry: one

14:33:19 <AxelPolleres> don't care

Axel Polleres: don't care

14:33:19 <Olivier> 2

Olivier Corby: 2

14:33:38 <ArthurK> one or ban it

Arthur Keen: one or ban it

14:33:44 <SteveH> ban it would be ok

Steve Harris: ban it would be ok

14:33:56 <sandro> lee: even split.    when we had a similar issue on spanning BGPs with entailment semantics, the end result was to ban it.

Lee Feigenbaum: even split. when we had a similar issue on spanning BGPs with entailment semantics, the end result was to ban it.

14:34:08 <AxelPolleres> if you ask me as an editor, I'd switch to "�one" (because then I don't have to edit anything

Axel Polleres: if you ask me as an editor, I'd switch to "�one" (because then I don't have to edit anything

14:34:11 <SteveH> … ot make it implementation defined *ducks*

Steve Harris: … ot make it implementation defined *ducks*

14:34:12 <AxelPolleres> ;-)

Axel Polleres: ;-)

14:34:33 <sandro> PROPOSED: It's an error to use the same blank node label in two different parts.    We'd not test this, just assert it.

PROPOSED: It's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request. We'd not test this, just assert it.

14:34:52 <AndyS> s/parts/operations in the same request/
14:35:20 <sandro> PROPOSED: It's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request.    We'd not test this, just assert it.

PROPOSED: It's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request. We'd not test this, just assert it.

14:35:28 <SteveH> we're omly sort-of testing for it - the test is a bit strange

Steve Harris: we're omly sort-of testing for it - the test is a bit strange

14:35:30 <sandro> AndyS: We're already testing for it.

Andy Seaborne: We're already testing for it.

14:35:43 <sandro> AndyS: This also re-opens the query document.

Andy Seaborne: This also re-opens the query document.

14:35:49 <AxelPolleres> I don't think we have an *approved test case* for that, do we?��

Axel Polleres: I don't think we have an *approved test case* for that, do we?��

14:36:14 <sandro> AndyS: Hmmmm, what was Rob running against....

Andy Seaborne: Hmmmm, what was Rob running against....

14:37:14 <AxelPolleres> RV-10 (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Sep/0022.html) doesn't mention a test case, and the exmple he mentions isn't conflicting with the ban across requests, is it?

Axel Polleres: RV-10 (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Sep/0022.html) doesn't mention a test case, and the exmple he mentions isn't conflicting with the ban across requests, is it?

14:37:29 <sandro> lee: let's do that proposal, then unapprove test 53.

Lee Feigenbaum: let's do that proposal, then unapprove test 53.

14:37:44 <SteveH> we could make it a negative syntax test if we wanted to

Steve Harris: we could make it a negative syntax test if we wanted to

14:37:54 <sandro> lee: the publish updates and query as PR, contingient on this modification.

Lee Feigenbaum: the publish updates and query as PR, contingient on this modification.

14:38:07 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:38:07 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

14:38:15 <sandro> lee: not time for a new test.

Lee Feigenbaum: not time for a new test.

14:38:52 <sandro> PROPOSED: It's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request.   Remove test 53.   At some point in the future, add negative syntax test.

PROPOSED: It's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request. Remove test 53. At some point in the future, add negative syntax test.

14:38:55 <AndyS> Test was added  2012/05/26

Andy Seaborne: Test was added 2012/05/26

14:39:08 <sandro> +1

+1

14:39:10 <AxelPolleres> unapprove .... go for PR ... add and re-approve negative syntax test in the future.

Axel Polleres: unapprove .... go for PR ... add and re-approve negative syntax test in the future.

14:39:28 <kasei> +1

Gregory Williams: +1

14:39:30 <bglimm> +1

Birte Glimm: +1

14:39:32 <MattPerry> +1

Matthew Perry: +1

14:39:32 <ArthurK> +1

Arthur Keen: +1

14:39:33 <pgearon> abstain

Paul Gearon: abstain

14:39:41 <Olivier> abstain

Olivier Corby: abstain

14:39:42 <cbuilara> abstain

Carlos Buil Aranda: abstain

14:39:42 <AxelPolleres> +1 (also changing unapproved new basic-update tests to negative syntax tests)

Axel Polleres: +1 (also changing unapproved new basic-update tests to negative syntax tests)

14:40:30 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

14:40:45 <SteveH> +1

Steve Harris: +1

14:41:02 <LeeF> RESOLVED: It's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request.   Remove test 53.   At some point in the future, add negative syntax test.

RESOLVED: It's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request. Remove test 53. At some point in the future, add negative syntax test.

14:41:39 <AndyS> test 53 ==  syntax-update-1/syntax-update-53.ru

Andy Seaborne: test 53 == syntax-update-1/syntax-update-53.ru

14:41:56 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR contingent on the text changes to note that it's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request

PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR contingent on the text changes to note that it's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request

14:42:14 <sandro> +1 W3C

+1 W3C

14:42:18 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

14:42:20 <AndyS> +1 ASF

Andy Seaborne: +1 ASF

14:42:21 <bglimm> +1 (UUlm)

Birte Glimm: +1 (UUlm)

14:42:21 <pgearon> +1

Paul Gearon: +1

14:42:21 <cbuilara> +1

Carlos Buil Aranda: +1

14:42:23 <Olivier> +1

Olivier Corby: +1

14:42:23 <MattPerry> +1

Matthew Perry: +1

14:42:23 <SteveH> +1 Experian

Steve Harris: +1 Experian

14:42:24 <AxelPolleres> how do we check/review the change?

Axel Polleres: how do we check/review the change?

14:42:30 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

14:42:44 <AxelPolleres> +1 (plus action to approval by review)

Axel Polleres: +1 (plus action to approval by review)

14:42:57 <ArthurK> +1

Arthur Keen: +1

14:43:39 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR contingent on the text changes to note that it's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request

RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query1.1/rq25.xml as PR contingent on the text changes to note that it's an error to use the same blank node label in two different operations in the same request

14:44:19 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: SPARQL WG  : http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-10-02

sandro has changed the topic to: SPARQL WG : http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-10-02

14:44:20 <AndyS> ACTION AndyS make change to rq25 to reflect banning use of the same bNode label across operations.  Notify WG when done.

Andy Seaborne: ACTION AndyS make change to rq25 to reflect banning use of the same bNode label across operations. Notify WG when done.

14:44:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-691 - Make change to rq25 to reflect banning use of the same bNode label across operations.  Notify WG when done. [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-10-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-691 - Make change to rq25 to reflect banning use of the same bNode label across operations. Notify WG when done. [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-10-09].

14:44:20 <LeeF> ACTION: Axel to approve the change re: banning multiple same blank node label in update requests

ACTION: Axel to approve the change re: banning multiple same blank node label in update requests

14:44:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-692 - Approve the change re: banning multiple same blank node label in update requests [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-692 - Approve the change re: banning multiple same blank node label in update requests [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-09].

14:45:45 <LeeF> ACTION: Axel to update wording in update document to be consistent wiht change re: blank node labels in query doc

ACTION: Axel to update wording in update document to be consistent wiht change re: blank node labels in query doc

14:45:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-693 - Update wording in update document to be consistent wiht change re: blank node labels in query doc [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-693 - Update wording in update document to be consistent wiht change re: blank node labels in query doc [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-10-09].

14:45:48 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

14:46:11 <sandro> AxelPolleres: We need an okay from Rob.

Axel Polleres: We need an okay from Rob.

14:46:28 <sandro> AndyS: What part of Query changes?

Andy Seaborne: What part of Query changes?

14:46:48 <sandro> LeeF: I think it's just editorial, removing an editorial bit about update scope.

Lee Feigenbaum: I think it's just editorial, removing an editorial bit about update scope.

14:46:50 <AndyS> ack me

Andy Seaborne: ack me

14:47:42 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml as PR contingent on acknowledgement of response to RV-10 and contingent on ACTION-693 completion

PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml as PR contingent on acknowledgement of response to RV-10 and contingent on ACTION-693 completion

14:47:59 <AxelPolleres> q+ to maybe approve RV-10 just now? http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RV-10

Axel Polleres: q+ to maybe approve RV-10 just now? http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RV-10

14:48:21 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml as PR contingent on acknowledgement of response to RV-10 and contingent on ACTION-692 and ACTION-693 completion

PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml as PR contingent on acknowledgement of response to RV-10 and contingent on ACTION-692 and ACTION-693 completion

14:48:22 <sandro> AndyS: Continent on 692 as well?

Andy Seaborne: Continent on 692 as well?

14:50:14 <LeeF> kasei: +1

Gregory Williams: +1 [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

14:50:19 <AxelPolleres> +1 (siemens)

Axel Polleres: +1 (siemens)

14:50:22 <AndyS> +1 ASF

Andy Seaborne: +1 ASF

14:50:24 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

14:50:26 <bglimm> +1 (UUlm)

Birte Glimm: +1 (UUlm)

14:50:26 <pgearon> +1

Paul Gearon: +1

14:50:27 <cbuilara> +1

Carlos Buil Aranda: +1

14:50:28 <sandro> +1

+1

14:50:29 <MattPerry> +1 Oracle

Matthew Perry: +1 Oracle

14:50:35 <Olivier> +1

Olivier Corby: +1

14:50:36 <ArthurK> +1

Arthur Keen: +1

14:50:39 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml as PR contingent on acknowledgement of response to RV-10 and contingent on ACTION-692 and ACTION-693 completion

RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml as PR contingent on acknowledgement of response to RV-10 and contingent on ACTION-692 and ACTION-693 completion

14:52:49 <Zakim> -Chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: -Chimezie

14:52:52 <sandro> lee: GSP?    later, Chime isn't here.

Lee Feigenbaum: GSP? later, Chime isn't here.

14:53:01 <sandro> lee: FedQ ?

Lee Feigenbaum: FedQ ?

14:53:17 <Zakim> +Chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: +Chimezie

14:53:29 <sandro> cbuilara: One comment, just a suggestion.

Carlos Buil Aranda: One comment, just a suggestion.

14:53:34 <cbuilara> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jul/0013.html

Carlos Buil Aranda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jul/0013.html

14:54:27 <AxelPolleres> RV-10 draft response updated at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RV-10 (sending contingent to completion of ACTIONS on edits in query and update doc)

Axel Polleres: RV-10 draft response updated at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RV-10 (sending contingent to completion of ACTIONS on edits in query and update doc)

14:55:39 <sandro> lee: Since we need another week anyway, might as well go around with Peter again.   Carlos can you tell Peter that given where we are in the WG, we'd prefer to handle this in a future WG?

Lee Feigenbaum: Since we need another week anyway, might as well go around with Peter again. Carlos can you tell Peter that given where we are in the WG, we'd prefer to handle this in a future WG?

14:55:46 <sandro> cbuilara: yes, I'll do that today.

Carlos Buil Aranda: yes, I'll do that today.

14:56:08 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/json-results/json-results.xml as PR

PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/json-results/json-results.xml as PR

14:56:12 <sandro> +1

+1

14:56:35 <AxelPolleres> +1 (siemens)

Axel Polleres: +1 (siemens)

14:56:36 <sandro> lee: 3 100% test results

Lee Feigenbaum: 3 100% test results

14:56:36 <bglimm> +1 (UUlm)

Birte Glimm: +1 (UUlm)

14:56:40 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

14:56:41 <cbuilara> +1

Carlos Buil Aranda: +1

14:56:45 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)

Matthew Perry: +1 (Oracle)

14:56:46 <SteveH> +1 Experian

Steve Harris: +1 Experian

14:56:47 <Olivier> +1

Olivier Corby: +1

14:56:53 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/json-results/json-results.xml as PR

RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/json-results/json-results.xml as PR

14:56:59 <AndyS> +1 ASF

Andy Seaborne: +1 ASF

14:57:09 <ArthurK> +1 Algebraix

Arthur Keen: +1 Algebraix

14:57:27 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/csv-tsv-results/results-csv-tsv.html as PR

PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/csv-tsv-results/results-csv-tsv.html as PR

14:57:36 <sandro> lee: csv/tst -- also three at 100%

Lee Feigenbaum: csv/tst -- also three at 100%

14:57:39 <sandro> +1

+1

14:57:41 <AxelPolleres> +1 (siemens)

Axel Polleres: +1 (siemens)

14:57:43 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

14:57:43 <Olivier> +1

Olivier Corby: +1

14:57:44 <bglimm> +1 (UUlm)

Birte Glimm: +1 (UUlm)

14:57:44 <cbuilara> +1

Carlos Buil Aranda: +1

14:57:49 <AndyS> +1 ASF

Andy Seaborne: +1 ASF

14:57:50 <ArthurK> +1 Algebraix

Arthur Keen: +1 Algebraix

14:57:52 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)

Matthew Perry: +1 (Oracle)

14:57:56 <SteveH> +1 Experian

Steve Harris: +1 Experian

14:58:02 <pgearon> +1

Paul Gearon: +1

14:58:04 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/csv-tsv-results/results-csv-tsv.html as PR

RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/csv-tsv-results/results-csv-tsv.html as PR

14:58:32 <sandro> lee: Anything pending with Overview?

Lee Feigenbaum: Anything pending with Overview?

14:58:37 <Zakim> -Chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: -Chimezie

14:58:43 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/Overview.xml as PR

PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/Overview.xml as PR

14:58:47 <sandro> axel: Nope.

Axel Polleres: Nope.

14:58:48 <sandro> +1

+1

14:58:51 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

14:58:51 <AxelPolleres> +1 (siemens)

Axel Polleres: +1 (siemens)

14:58:54 <ArthurK> +1 Algebraix

Arthur Keen: +1 Algebraix

14:58:55 <bglimm> +1 (UUlm)

Birte Glimm: +1 (UUlm)

14:58:55 <cbuilara> +1

Carlos Buil Aranda: +1

14:58:57 <MattPerry> +1 (Oracle)

Matthew Perry: +1 (Oracle)

14:58:59 <AndyS> +1 ASF

Andy Seaborne: +1 ASF

14:59:08 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/Overview.xml as PR

RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/Overview.xml as PR

14:59:08 <Olivier> +1

Olivier Corby: +1

15:00:26 <Zakim> -LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF

15:00:29 <Zakim> -cbuilara

Zakim IRC Bot: -cbuilara

15:00:30 <sandro> sandro: I'll send an email on a little thing with XML Results format

Sandro Hawke: I'll send an email on a little thing with XML Results format

15:00:31 <Zakim> -SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH

15:00:32 <sandro> ADJOURN

ADJOURN

15:00:32 <Zakim> -kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei

15:00:33 <Zakim> -bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm

15:00:33 <Zakim> -Olivier

Zakim IRC Bot: -Olivier

15:00:35 <Zakim> -MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry

15:00:41 <Zakim> -pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon

15:02:20 <Zakim> -ArthurK

Zakim IRC Bot: -ArthurK

15:05:14 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-XMLres/

http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-XMLres/

15:05:24 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/XMLres-errata

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/XMLres-errata

15:06:19 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres

15:06:20 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

15:06:30 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:06:31 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

15:06:31 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.310.729.aaaa, EricP, kasei, +1.617.553.aabb, LeeF, +33.4.92.96.aacc, Olivier, +1.603.897.aadd, MattPerry, AndyS, SteveH, Sandro, cbuilara, +49.897.aaee,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.310.729.aaaa, EricP, kasei, +1.617.553.aabb, LeeF, +33.4.92.96.aacc, Olivier, +1.603.897.aadd, MattPerry, AndyS, SteveH, Sandro, cbuilara, +49.897.aaee,

15:06:31 <Zakim> ... AxelPolleres, pgearon, bglimm, Chimezie, ArthurK

Zakim IRC Bot: ... AxelPolleres, pgearon, bglimm, Chimezie, ArthurK

16:04:38 <AndyS> Enacting bNode label in update operations "change"/"clarification" : looks like one test failure - not  syntax-update-53.ru  which is actually OK -- one of Axel's new tests which are not approved.  insert-data-same-bnode2.ru

(No events recorded for 58 minutes)

Andy Seaborne: Enacting bNode label in update operations "change"/"clarification" : looks like one test failure - not syntax-update-53.ru which is actually OK -- one of Axel's new tests which are not approved. insert-data-same-bnode2.ru

19:30:23 <kasei> what's the status of the same-bnode tests. are they all expected to fail now?

(No events recorded for 205 minutes)

Gregory Williams: what's the status of the same-bnode tests. are they all expected to fail now?



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This revision (#2) generated 2012-10-09 14:51:13 UTC by 'sandro', comments: None