SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 29 May 2012

Present
Lee Feigenbaum, Gregory Williams, Andy Seaborne, Paul Gearon, Steve Harris, Sandro Hawke, Carlos Buil Aranda, Matthew Perry, Chimezie Ogbuji, Arthur Keen, Birte Glimm, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Axel Polleres
Regrets
Axel Polleres, Olivier Corby
Chair
Lee Feigenbaum
Scribe
Gregory Williams
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Accept minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-05-22 link
Topics
<kasei> Present: LeeF, kasei, AndyS, pgearon, swh, Sandro, cbuilara, MattPerry, Chimezie, Arthur, bglimm, EricP, AxelPolleres
13:58:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/29-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/29-sparql-irc

13:58:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

13:58:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

13:58:06 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:58:06 <trackbot> Date: 29 May 2012
13:58:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

13:58:53 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

13:59:00 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

13:59:10 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

13:59:19 <Zakim> +kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei

13:59:19 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P1 is me

13:59:20 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:00:39 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

14:01:11 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

14:01:16 <swh> Zakim, ??P11 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P11 is me

14:01:16 <Zakim> +swh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +swh; got it

14:02:35 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:02:52 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

14:02:56 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P22 is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P22 is me

14:03:07 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it

14:03:13 <Zakim> +MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry

14:03:34 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:03:36 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel
14:04:06 <Zakim> +Chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: +Chimezie

14:04:34 <kasei> scribenick: kasei

(Scribe set to Gregory Williams)

14:04:47 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Olivier
14:04:55 <LeeF> topic: Admin

1. Admin

14:05:01 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Accept minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-05-22

PROPOSED: Accept minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-05-22

14:05:16 <Zakim> +Arthur

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arthur

14:05:26 <Zakim> +??P37

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37

14:05:32 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P37 is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, ??P37 is me

14:05:32 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

14:05:33 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Accept minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-05-22

RESOLVED: Accept minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-05-22

14:05:39 <AndyS> +1 to minutes

Andy Seaborne: +1 to minutes

14:06:01 <kasei> LeeF: next week is during semtech

Lee Feigenbaum: next week is during semtech

14:06:09 <AndyS> and is UK holiday

Andy Seaborne: and is UK holiday

14:06:20 <kasei> ... who's going to be there?

... who's going to be there?

14:06:27 <AndyS> (Tuesday - not the whole week!)

Andy Seaborne: (Tuesday - not the whole week!)

14:06:42 <kasei> ... let's plan on a short telecon.

... let's plan on a short telecon.

14:07:04 <kasei> ... will check in on actions, try to make progress where we can.

... will check in on actions, try to make progress where we can.

14:07:46 <LeeF> topic: Document Status and To PR

2. Document Status and To PR

14:07:34 <kasei> LeeF: greg sent email out summarizing test status.

Lee Feigenbaum: greg sent email out summarizing test status.

14:07:49 <kasei> ... want to fill in detail on To_PR page. will use email as a guide.

... want to fill in detail on To_PR page. will use email as a guide.

14:07:49 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_PR

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_PR

14:08:03 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012AprJun/0182.html

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012AprJun/0182.html

14:08:38 <kasei> LeeF: starting with update.

Lee Feigenbaum: starting with update.

14:09:08 <kasei> pgearon: not entirely caught up on update issues.

Paul Gearon: not entirely caught up on update issues.

14:09:38 <kasei> LeeF: three questions: what's changed since LC? who will take responsibility for Kjetil's comment? what editorial changes are left?

Lee Feigenbaum: three questions: what's changed since LC? who will take responsibility for Kjetil's comment? what editorial changes are left?

14:09:48 <kasei> ... can we come back to update later in the call?

... can we come back to update later in the call?

14:09:56 <kasei> pgearon: what comment from Kjetil?

Paul Gearon: what comment from Kjetil?

14:10:02 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012May/0023.html

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012May/0023.html

14:10:02 <AxelPolleres> FWIW, bnode reuse across INSERT patterns is solved.

Axel Polleres: FWIW, bnode reuse across INSERT patterns is solved.

14:10:26 <AxelPolleres> I have drafted a reply for that one, I think.

Axel Polleres: I have drafted a reply for that one, I think.

14:10:30 <LeeF> Subtopic: Protocol

2.1. Protocol

14:10:49 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:KK-15

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:KK-15

14:11:05 <kasei> LeeF: haven't made any changes to Protocol since LC.

Lee Feigenbaum: haven't made any changes to Protocol since LC.

14:11:27 <kasei> ... don't need specific reviewers unless we make new changes.

... don't need specific reviewers unless we make new changes.

14:11:42 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

14:12:05 <kasei> ... there are no open protocol comments.

... there are no open protocol comments.

14:12:09 <kasei> ... no open issues.

... no open issues.

14:13:12 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/Overview.xml

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/Overview.xml

14:13:30 <AndyS> I see comments (delayed RC-1, RC-2)

Andy Seaborne: I see comments (delayed RC-1, RC-2)

14:13:38 <kasei> ... we had added text indicating UTF-8 is the only valid charset for query via POST directly.

... we had added text indicating UTF-8 is the only valid charset for query via POST directly.

14:13:46 <kasei> ... we don't say the same thing for update via POST directly.

... we don't say the same thing for update via POST directly.

14:14:00 <kasei> ... I think this was just an oversight, and we should say so for both query and update.

... I think this was just an oversight, and we should say so for both query and update.

14:14:20 <kasei> ... does anybody have any issues with that?

... does anybody have any issues with that?

14:14:31 <AndyS> ... RC-1, RC-2 MLR-1

Andy Seaborne: ... RC-1, RC-2 MLR-1

14:15:03 <AndyS> (old, postponed - may have been answered but not recorded?)

Andy Seaborne: (old, postponed - may have been answered but not recorded?)

14:15:29 <kasei> LeeF: need to respond to old comments RC-1, RC-2, MLR-1.

Lee Feigenbaum: need to respond to old comments RC-1, RC-2, MLR-1.

14:16:15 <kasei> ... I'll draft responses to these.

... I'll draft responses to these.

14:17:18 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to draft responses to RC-1, RC-2, and MLR-1

ACTION: Lee to draft responses to RC-1, RC-2, and MLR-1

14:17:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-627 - Draft responses to RC-1, RC-2, and MLR-1 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-627 - Draft responses to RC-1, RC-2, and MLR-1 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05].

14:17:39 <LeeF> q?

Lee Feigenbaum: q?

<kasei> subsubtopic: testing
2.1.1. testing
14:18:20 <AndyS> kasei: list of tests for protocol -- work-in-progress

Gregory Williams: list of tests for protocol -- work-in-progress [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

14:18:28 <LeeF> https://gist.github.com/2770483

Lee Feigenbaum: https://gist.github.com/2770483

14:18:34 <AndyS> ... impl a validator

Andy Seaborne: ... impl a validator

14:18:43 <AndyS> ... challenges around update

Andy Seaborne: ... challenges around update

14:18:55 <kasei> http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/protocol_validator.cgi

http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/protocol_validator.cgi

14:19:44 <AndyS> Leef: where does the dataset come from?

Lee Feigenbaum: where does the dataset come from? [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

14:20:15 <AndyS> kasei: end point can refuse with and also without a dataset

Gregory Williams: end point can refuse with and also without a dataset [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

14:20:26 <AndyS> ... makes testing tricky

Andy Seaborne: ... makes testing tricky

14:21:15 <AndyS> (offline to check tests against Fuseki)

Andy Seaborne: (offline to check tests against Fuseki)

14:21:31 <AndyS> LeeF: collect endpoints and deal with what we get.

Lee Feigenbaum: collect endpoints and deal with what we get. [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

14:22:08 <AndyS> kasei: OK for query ... but update is harder

Gregory Williams: OK for query ... but update is harder [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

14:22:22 <AndyS> LeeF: Ask for targets to be provided

Lee Feigenbaum: Ask for targets to be provided [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

14:22:59 <AndyS> ... can put up a endpoint for Anzo.

Andy Seaborne: ... can put up a endpoint for Anzo.

14:23:34 <AndyS> ... like query, ask for implementers to contact WG (off list!) for testing points.

Andy Seaborne: ... like query, ask for implementers to contact WG (off list!) for testing points.

14:23:51 <kasei> LeeF: will need to approve the tests.

Lee Feigenbaum: will need to approve the tests.

14:24:06 <AndyS> ... need to do: complete tests, approve tests

Andy Seaborne: ... need to do: complete tests, approve tests

14:24:20 <AndyS> kasei: Some tests need refining

Gregory Williams: Some tests need refining [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

14:24:55 <AndyS> ... currently (hesitantly) fairly complete

Andy Seaborne: ... currently (hesitantly) fairly complete

14:25:06 <AndyS> LeeF: I will review the tests

Lee Feigenbaum: I will review the tests [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

14:25:08 <kasei> LeeF: if you can finish specing out the tests on the github page...

Lee Feigenbaum: if you can finish specing out the tests on the github page...

14:25:43 <kasei> ... work with Andy to get a Fuseki endpoint that we can run it against, and yours. Maybe Anzo as well.

... work with Andy to get a Fuseki endpoint that we can run it against, and yours. Maybe Anzo as well.

14:25:45 <AndyS> ... for approving, RDF:Query ep, Anzo ap, Jena ap

Andy Seaborne: ... for approving, RDF:Query ep, Anzo ap, Jena ap

14:26:10 <AndyS> ... validate the validator

Andy Seaborne: ... validate the validator

14:27:02 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to complete specification of protocol tests at https://gist.github.com/2770483

ACTION: Greg to complete specification of protocol tests at https://gist.github.com/2770483

14:27:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-628 - Complete specification of protocol tests at https://gist.github.com/2770483 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-628 - Complete specification of protocol tests at https://gist.github.com/2770483 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].

14:27:13 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to review protocol test specifications pending completion of ACTION-628

ACTION: Lee to review protocol test specifications pending completion of ACTION-628

14:27:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-629 - Review protocol test specifications pending completion of ACTION-628 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-629 - Review protocol test specifications pending completion of ACTION-628 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05].

14:27:29 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628

ACTION: Greg to complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628

14:27:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-630 - Complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-630 - Complete implementation of validator pending completion of ACTION-628 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].

14:27:58 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630

ACTION: Greg to work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630

14:27:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-631 - Work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-631 - Work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630 [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].

14:28:15 <kasei> LeeF: once we've done these actions, should be able to approve protocol tests.

Lee Feigenbaum: once we've done these actions, should be able to approve protocol tests.

14:28:16 <LeeF> ACTION-631?

Lee Feigenbaum: ACTION-631?

14:28:16 <trackbot> ACTION-631 -- Gregory Williams to work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630 -- due 2012-06-05 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-631 -- Gregory Williams to work with Andy (and possibly Lee, others) to check validator with existing protocol implementations pending completion of ACTION-630 -- due 2012-06-05 -- OPEN

14:28:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/631

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/631

14:29:11 <kasei> ... does Fuseki implement all the ways of sending queries?

... does Fuseki implement all the ways of sending queries?

14:29:14 <kasei> AndyS: yes.

Andy Seaborne: yes.

14:29:54 <kasei> kasei: I support all methods as well.

Gregory Williams: I support all methods as well.

14:30:01 <kasei> LeeF: I'm not sure we support them all in Anzo yet.

Lee Feigenbaum: I'm not sure we support them all in Anzo yet.

14:30:12 <kasei> ... anybody else?

... anybody else?

14:30:28 <swh> pretty sure ours is not complete

Steve Harris: pretty sure ours is not complete

14:30:30 <swh> either of them

Steve Harris: either of them

<kasei> subtopic: Service Description

2.2. Service Description

14:30:52 <LeeF> kasei: no significant changes since last call

Gregory Williams: no significant changes since last call [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

14:31:24 <AndyS> kasei: no editorial known.

Gregory Williams: no editorial known. [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

14:31:34 <AndyS> ... one comment (Chime drafted)

Andy Seaborne: ... one comment (Chime drafted)

14:32:32 <kasei> LeeF: no ack on MO-1?

Lee Feigenbaum: no ack on MO-1?

14:32:34 <kasei> kasei: no.

Gregory Williams: no.

14:33:45 <kasei> LeeF: I'll send a ping on MO-1.

Lee Feigenbaum: I'll send a ping on MO-1.

14:34:37 <kasei> ... sent.

... sent.

14:35:22 <kasei> ... no ack from TI-3.

... no ack from TI-3.

14:35:29 <kasei> ... will send a ping on TI-3, also.

... will send a ping on TI-3, also.

14:36:53 <kasei> ... KR-1?

... KR-1?

14:37:12 <kasei> ... will follow up offlist to clarify status.

... will follow up offlist to clarify status.

14:37:48 <kasei> ... all comments have been responded to.

... all comments have been responded to.

14:38:06 <kasei> ... no issues.

... no issues.

14:38:28 <LeeF> kasei: i have the SD validator

Gregory Williams: i have the SD validator [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

14:38:30 <LeeF> ... conformance is minimal

Lee Feigenbaum: ... conformance is minimal

14:38:35 <LeeF> ... we only have my implementation right now

Lee Feigenbaum: ... we only have my implementation right now

14:38:42 <LeeF> ... there might be others, and conformant support is trivial

Lee Feigenbaum: ... there might be others, and conformant support is trivial

14:38:54 <kasei> LeeF: any other implementations of SD?

Lee Feigenbaum: any other implementations of SD?

14:39:10 <kasei> ... what about validating the validator? approving the tests?

... what about validating the validator? approving the tests?

14:39:16 <AndyS> Validator is where?

Andy Seaborne: Validator is where?

14:39:17 <chimezie> I have a bare bones implementation of SD

Chimezie Ogbuji: I have a bare bones implementation of SD

14:39:46 <kasei> http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sdvalidator.cgi

http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sdvalidator.cgi

14:39:59 <kasei> https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator

https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator

14:40:20 <kasei> chimezie: I have a basic SD implementation.

Chimezie Ogbuji: I have a basic SD implementation.

14:40:51 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to document what the service description validator tests

ACTION: Greg to document what the service description validator tests

14:40:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-632 - Document what the service description validator tests [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-632 - Document what the service description validator tests [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-06-05].

14:40:53 <kasei> LeeF: is there any documentation for the SD validator?

Lee Feigenbaum: is there any documentation for the SD validator?

14:40:57 <kasei> kasei: no. I'll add some.

Gregory Williams: no. I'll add some.

14:41:12 <LeeF> ACTION: Chimezie to put his SD implementation public somewhere & try the SD validator against it

ACTION: Chimezie to put his SD implementation public somewhere & try the SD validator against it

14:41:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-633 - Put his SD implementation public somewhere & try the SD validator against it [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-06-05].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-633 - Put his SD implementation public somewhere & try the SD validator against it [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-06-05].

14:41:55 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to look over the SD validator code (https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator/blob/master/sdvalidator.cgi)

ACTION: Lee to look over the SD validator code (https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator/blob/master/sdvalidator.cgi)

14:41:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-634 - Look over the SD validator code (https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator/blob/master/sdvalidator.cgi) [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-634 - Look over the SD validator code (https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-sdvalidator/blob/master/sdvalidator.cgi) [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-06-05].

14:42:02 <LeeF> ACTION-632

Lee Feigenbaum: ACTION-632

14:42:04 <LeeF> ACTION-632?

Lee Feigenbaum: ACTION-632?

14:42:04 <trackbot> ACTION-632 -- Gregory Williams to document what the service description validator tests -- due 2012-06-05 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-632 -- Gregory Williams to document what the service description validator tests -- due 2012-06-05 -- OPEN

14:42:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/632

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/632

14:43:03 <kasei> LeeF: does anybody else have plans to implement SD in coming weeks?

Lee Feigenbaum: does anybody else have plans to implement SD in coming weeks?

14:43:11 <swh> I have an impl. but it's out of date

Steve Harris: I have an impl. but it's out of date

14:43:16 <swh> might be able to update it

Steve Harris: might be able to update it

14:43:27 <AndyS> Hope to tweak things but no guarantees

Andy Seaborne: Hope to tweak things but no guarantees

14:43:44 <kasei> LeeF: suspect ericP might have an implementation of SD.

Lee Feigenbaum: suspect ericP might have an implementation of SD.

14:43:56 <kasei> sandro: I don't think so. Possible, but haven't heard him mention it.

Sandro Hawke: I don't think so. Possible, but haven't heard him mention it.

14:44:01 <kasei> LeeF: I'll ping him about it.

Lee Feigenbaum: I'll ping him about it.

14:44:16 <Arthur> We plan to implement, but are a few months away

Arthur Keen: We plan to implement, but are a few months away

14:44:43 <LeeF> thanks, Arthur

Lee Feigenbaum: thanks, Arthur

<kasei> subtopic: Graph Store Protocol

2.3. Graph Store Protocol

14:44:45 <kasei> LeeF: regarding GSP, chime drafted responses to outstanding comments.

Lee Feigenbaum: regarding GSP, chime drafted responses to outstanding comments.

14:45:01 <kasei> ... can somebody take a look at chime's drafts?

... can somebody take a look at chime's drafts?

14:45:20 <kasei> kasei: I did this morning. Sent a comment about it.

Gregory Williams: I did this morning. Sent a comment about it.

14:47:20 <ericP> huh, i don't think i have much SD outside of a little demo mode which claims something to be a DOAP project

Eric Prud'hommeaux: huh, i don't think i have much SD outside of a little demo mode which claims something to be a DOAP project

14:47:26 <ericP> need one for CR?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: need one for CR?

14:47:28 <LeeF> ok, thanks ericP

Lee Feigenbaum: ok, thanks ericP

14:47:29 <kasei> LeeF: maybe we remove the word "REST"?

Lee Feigenbaum: maybe we remove the word "REST"?

14:47:36 <LeeF> ericP, maybe but probably not

Lee Feigenbaum: ericP, maybe but probably not

14:47:49 <kasei> chimezie: the more important part of the response is that what's being asked for is out of scope for the GSP.

Chimezie Ogbuji: the more important part of the response is that what's being asked for is out of scope for the GSP.

14:47:50 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

14:48:13 <kasei> chimezie: I'm not sure why it's not RESTful.

Chimezie Ogbuji: I'm not sure why it's not RESTful.

14:50:11 <kasei> kasei: this violates HATEOAS

Gregory Williams: this violates HATEOAS

14:50:35 <ericP> chimezie, as soon as you define a API then you've violated the generalized mechanism of HTTP

Eric Prud'hommeaux: chimezie, as soon as you define a API then you've violated the generalized mechanism of HTTP

14:51:12 <kasei> chimezie: we've tied our own hands on this, because we've decided service description is out of scope for GSP.

Chimezie Ogbuji: we've tied our own hands on this, because we've decided service description is out of scope for GSP.

14:51:43 <kasei> LeeF: we're not doing full REST because it's not practical at this point. we do have an HTTP API.

Lee Feigenbaum: we're not doing full REST because it's not practical at this point. we do have an HTTP API.

14:52:00 <kasei> ... do we remove any mention of REST? or do we add a note saying it's "REST-ish", but not actually REST?

... do we remove any mention of REST? or do we add a note saying it's "REST-ish", but not actually REST?

14:52:28 <kasei> sandro: the SD gives you a URI for the dataset.

Sandro Hawke: the SD gives you a URI for the dataset.

14:52:52 <kasei> ... why don't we take out indirect reference?

... why don't we take out indirect reference?

14:52:55 <AndyS> q+ to look at where REST is used in doc

Andy Seaborne: q+ to look at where REST is used in doc

14:53:10 <kasei> ... in practice, you'd have to not use graph names outside of your control (which is a best practice anyway)

... in practice, you'd have to not use graph names outside of your control (which is a best practice anyway)

14:53:27 <kasei> chimezie: I think parts of REST are dogma.

Chimezie Ogbuji: I think parts of REST are dogma.

14:53:47 <LeeF> q+ to respond to Sandro's suggestion

Lee Feigenbaum: q+ to respond to Sandro's suggestion

14:53:57 <kasei> ... the question of HATEOAS is dogmatic.

... the question of HATEOAS is dogmatic.

14:54:11 <kasei> sandro: i've beent hinking of what are good ways to deal with datasets.

Sandro Hawke: i've beent hinking of what are good ways to deal with datasets.

14:54:26 <kasei> ... if you're using somebody else's URI as a graph name, if somebody wants to find out what's there, they might as well ask the someone else.

... if you're using somebody else's URI as a graph name, if somebody wants to find out what's there, they might as well ask the someone else.

14:54:32 <AndyS> I see it used in   abstract, intro, terminology, PATCH, references

Andy Seaborne: I see it used in abstract, intro, terminology, PATCH, references

14:54:38 <kasei> ... if they don't want to do REST, they should use SPARQL.

... if they don't want to do REST, they should use SPARQL.

14:54:45 <swh> This is a usecase we have now

Steve Harris: This is a usecase we have now

14:55:57 <kasei> sandro: the dataset uri is something they pick.

Sandro Hawke: the dataset uri is something they pick.

14:56:13 <kasei> AndyS: can we discuss where "REST" is used in the document?

Andy Seaborne: can we discuss where "REST" is used in the document?

14:56:40 <kasei> LeeF: I think a lot of people want to be able to use HTTP operations on a graph store which has graphs which may not have http URIs or be on the same host as the GSP implementation.

Lee Feigenbaum: I think a lot of people want to be able to use HTTP operations on a graph store which has graphs which may not have http URIs or be on the same host as the GSP implementation.

14:57:01 <swh> +1 to LeeF

Steve Harris: +1 to LeeF

14:57:19 <kasei> sandro: you wouldn't have this architectural problem if you used SPARQL instead of GSP for those use cases.

Sandro Hawke: you wouldn't have this architectural problem if you used SPARQL instead of GSP for those use cases.

14:57:30 <kasei> ... practically it would be much easier, because you wouldn't have to get the SD.

... practically it would be much easier, because you wouldn't have to get the SD.

14:57:56 <kasei> LeeF: because of time, let's not make a decision on this now.

Lee Feigenbaum: because of time, let's not make a decision on this now.

14:58:08 <kasei> ... we'll try to take this up again next week or the week after.

... we'll try to take this up again next week or the week after.

14:58:36 <kasei> AndyS: only found REST in abstract, intro, a few other places. Not used very much.

Andy Seaborne: only found REST in abstract, intro, a few other places. Not used very much.

14:58:40 <sandro> NO --  I'm not saying use SPARQL , I'm saying make indirect reference parse of SPARQL Protocol.

Sandro Hawke: NO -- I'm not saying use SPARQL , I'm saying make indirect reference parse of SPARQL Protocol.

14:58:42 <kasei> LeeF: who would object to removing the term "REST"?

Lee Feigenbaum: who would object to removing the term "REST"?

14:59:32 <kasei> chimezie: the term is used minimally to avoid this type of angels on a pinhead conversation.

Chimezie Ogbuji: the term is used minimally to avoid this type of angels on a pinhead conversation.

14:59:50 <kasei> ... if you don't refer to REST it makes it harder for a developer to comprehend.

... if you don't refer to REST it makes it harder for a developer to comprehend.

15:00:26 <kasei> AndyS: I have sympathy for that argument. "hardcore REST" vs. "REST style".

Andy Seaborne: I have sympathy for that argument. "hardcore REST" vs. "REST style".

15:00:40 <kasei> ... we could appeal to HTTP rather than saying it's part of "REST".

... we could appeal to HTTP rather than saying it's part of "REST".

15:00:55 <kasei> ... we want "do the natural thing in accordance with good style"

... we want "do the natural thing in accordance with good style"

15:00:55 <sandro> +1 andy -- just reference HTTP not REST, as a way through this, maybe....

Sandro Hawke: +1 andy -- just reference HTTP not REST, as a way through this, maybe....

15:00:56 <swh> +1 to AndyS

Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS

15:01:17 <kasei> ... don't want to get into arguments about having to use http URIs for things, because there are reasons to use urns, etc.

... don't want to get into arguments about having to use http URIs for things, because there are reasons to use urns, etc.

15:01:33 <kasei> LeeF: Andy's suggestion is very appealing to me.

Lee Feigenbaum: Andy's suggestion is very appealing to me.

15:02:03 <kasei> ... share chimezie's worldview, but it may be the best compromise to appeal to HTTP instead of REST.

... share chimezie's worldview, but it may be the best compromise to appeal to HTTP instead of REST.

15:02:22 <kasei> AndyS: long-running situation which led to HATEOAS.

Andy Seaborne: long-running situation which led to HATEOAS.

15:02:53 <kasei> chimezie: it makes sense. the parts of REST I think of as engineering principles correspond one-to-one with HTTP.

Chimezie Ogbuji: it makes sense. the parts of REST I think of as engineering principles correspond one-to-one with HTTP.

15:03:28 <kasei> ... I'm convinced that it's the prudent thing to do. Emphasize conformance to HTTP, remove "REST".

... I'm convinced that it's the prudent thing to do. Emphasize conformance to HTTP, remove "REST".

15:03:46 <kasei> sandro: should we mention "REST" as "some people might call this REST"?

Sandro Hawke: should we mention "REST" as "some people might call this REST"?

15:04:03 <bglimm> sorry, I have another meeting now and can't stay longer... talk to you next week

Birte Glimm: sorry, I have another meeting now and can't stay longer... talk to you next week

15:04:23 <kasei> chimezie: unless not mentioning REST would cause somebody to object, I don't see the value in keeping it in.

Chimezie Ogbuji: unless not mentioning REST would cause somebody to object, I don't see the value in keeping it in.

15:04:35 <kasei> LeeF: upside is that if somebody searches for "SPARQL REST", they're more likely to find the document.

Lee Feigenbaum: upside is that if somebody searches for "SPARQL REST", they're more likely to find the document.

15:04:46 <kasei> sandro: but somebody will write a blog post that they find anyway.

Sandro Hawke: but somebody will write a blog post that they find anyway.

15:05:06 <kasei> LeeF: mentioning REST will cause people to have the concerns they've already expressed.

Lee Feigenbaum: mentioning REST will cause people to have the concerns they've already expressed.

15:05:17 <kasei> chimezie: would that be an editorial change?

Chimezie Ogbuji: would that be an editorial change?

15:05:23 <kasei> LeeF: I think the WG would consider that editorial.

Lee Feigenbaum: I think the WG would consider that editorial.

15:05:53 <kasei> ... sandro, would you like to still explore the indirect identification stuff?

... sandro, would you like to still explore the indirect identification stuff?

15:05:55 <kasei> sandro: no.

Sandro Hawke: no.

15:06:10 <kasei> LeeF: if we had a resolution about this, we should have a new one.

Lee Feigenbaum: if we had a resolution about this, we should have a new one.

15:06:21 <kasei> ... but that shouldn't stop you from rewording in the document.

... but that shouldn't stop you from rewording in the document.

15:06:40 <swh> sorry, have to go, late for another call

Steve Harris: sorry, have to go, late for another call

15:06:46 <LeeF> ACTION: Chimezie to draft text for GSP that replaces REST references with HTTP references and send summary/diff to the mailing list

ACTION: Chimezie to draft text for GSP that replaces REST references with HTTP references and send summary/diff to the mailing list

15:06:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-635 - Draft text for GSP that replaces REST references with HTTP references and send summary/diff to the mailing list [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-06-05].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-635 - Draft text for GSP that replaces REST references with HTTP references and send summary/diff to the mailing list [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-06-05].



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This revision (#1) generated 2012-05-29 15:26:28 UTC by 'gwilliam', comments: None