14:02:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/10-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/10-sparql-irc ←
14:02:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:02:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
14:02:35 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago ←
14:02:36 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:02:36 <trackbot> Date: 10 April 2012
14:03:24 <AxelPolleres> zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:03:30 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
Zakim IRC Bot: I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted ←
14:03:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see +43.664.801.173.aaaa, kasei, Olivier, SteveH, bglimm, LeeF, +1.603.897.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +43.664.801.173.aaaa, kasei, Olivier, SteveH, bglimm, LeeF, +1.603.897.aadd ←
14:03:44 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aaaa is me
Axel Polleres: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:03:44 <MattPerry> zakim, aadd is me
Matthew Perry: zakim, aadd is me ←
14:03:46 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres; got it ←
14:03:47 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry; got it ←
14:04:03 <SteveH> scribenick: SteveH
(Scribe set to Steve Harris)
14:04:04 <AxelPolleres> scribe: SteveH
14:04:08 <SteveH> scribe: SteveH
14:04:20 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-04-10
14:04:30 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
14:04:37 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-04-03
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-04-03 ←
14:05:08 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-04-03
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-04-03 ←
14:05:24 <AxelPolleres> Next regular meeting: 2012-04-17 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: cf. scribe_list)
Axel Polleres: Next regular meeting: 2012-04-17 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: cf. scribe_list) ←
14:05:35 <Olivier> I do
Olivier Corby: I do ←
14:05:46 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: anyone planning to attend WWW
Axel Polleres: anyone planning to attend WWW ←
14:05:51 <AxelPolleres> who's attending WWW in Lyon? Olivier, Axel
Axel Polleres: who's attending WWW in Lyon? Olivier, Axel ←
14:06:10 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
14:06:14 <AxelPolleres> regrets for next week
Axel Polleres: regrets for next week ←
14:06:18 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P25 is me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P25 is me ←
14:06:18 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it ←
14:06:23 <Olivier> regrets
Olivier Corby: regrets ←
14:06:37 <AxelPolleres> topic: RDF WG liaison
14:07:04 <AxelPolleres> no news from RDF
Axel Polleres: no news from RDF ←
14:07:13 <AxelPolleres> topic: Publications
14:07:29 <SteveH> … overview document, any comments?
… overview document, any comments? ←
14:07:41 <AxelPolleres> continued
Axel Polleres: continued ←
14:07:42 <SteveH> … leave til next week
… leave til next week ←
14:08:11 <SteveH> … we should publish the docs all together, maybe without Query
… we should publish the docs all together, maybe without Query ←
14:08:21 <SteveH> … so will probably try to publish existing sooner
… so will probably try to publish existing sooner ←
14:08:29 <AxelPolleres> topic: Query/PP
14:09:18 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Apr/0013.html
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Apr/0013.html ←
14:09:32 <SteveH> … link to origninal mail, several replies from commentors
… link to origninal mail, several replies from commentors ←
14:10:01 <AxelPolleres> Lee, would you mind to summarize?
Axel Polleres: Lee, would you mind to summarize? ←
14:10:15 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
14:10:17 <kasei> Wim responded, but not to the archive list, I think.
Gregory Williams: Wim responded, but not to the archive list, I think. ←
14:10:34 <AndyS> Apologies - will be 5 mins
Andy Seaborne: Apologies - will be 5 mins ←
14:11:18 <SteveH> LeeF: summary: nobody really had much to say about whether the design addresses the perf. concerns
Lee Feigenbaum: summary: nobody really had much to say about whether the design addresses the perf. concerns ←
14:11:29 <SteveH> … people would need to do research, but they think it's ok
… people would need to do research, but they think it's ok ←
14:11:51 <SteveH> … negative reaction to the actual choices, e.g. that / is counting, but * and + are not
… negative reaction to the actual choices, e.g. that / is counting, but * and + are not ←
14:12:00 <SteveH> … and removal of {} part of language
… and removal of {} part of language ←
14:12:22 <SteveH> … my take is that different people will differ on best design, but both are well-motivated
… my take is that different people will differ on best design, but both are well-motivated ←
14:12:35 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: any opinions on that
Axel Polleres: any opinions on that ←
14:12:37 <SteveH> ?
? ←
14:12:37 <Zakim> +??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←
14:12:41 <AndyS> zakim, ??P26 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P26 is me ←
14:12:41 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:13:33 <AxelPolleres> Opinions on Lee's proposal to go forward with what was decided last week?
Axel Polleres: Opinions on Lee's proposal to go forward with what was decided last week? ←
14:13:44 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:13:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, Olivier, SteveH, bglimm, LeeF, MattPerry, cbuilara, AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AxelPolleres, kasei, Olivier, SteveH, bglimm, LeeF, MattPerry, cbuilara, AndyS ←
14:14:08 <AxelPolleres> silence is agreement?
Axel Polleres: silence is agreement? ←
14:15:09 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: commenters want an official response
Axel Polleres: commenters want an official response ←
14:15:28 <kasei> I think we should push forward with option 6. The commenters seem to have a rather narrow view on what paths are for, and the required balancing act.
Gregory Williams: I think we should push forward with option 6. The commenters seem to have a rather narrow view on what paths are for, and the required balancing act. ←
14:15:42 <SteveH> … I fear the point that the commenters have, I see the concern
… I fear the point that the commenters have, I see the concern ←
14:16:00 <SteveH> … but the RDF list usecase makes sense with the proposed semantivs
… but the RDF list usecase makes sense with the proposed semantivs ←
14:16:13 <SteveH> .. two different views of naturallity
.. two different views of naturallity ←
14:16:42 <SteveH> … if we think we don't block ourselves to future use-cases, question for me is whether it's unintuative for other usecases
… if we think we don't block ourselves to future use-cases, question for me is whether it's unintuative for other usecases ←
14:17:01 <SteveH> … ones with distinct paths can be modelled with DISTINCT subqueries
… ones with distinct paths can be modelled with DISTINCT subqueries ←
14:17:21 <Zakim> + +1.781.899.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.781.899.aaee ←
14:17:37 <SteveH> … we could reply that we've come to descision via use-cases, lists and counting [something]
… we could reply that we've come to descision via use-cases, lists and counting [something] ←
14:17:55 <SteveH> … and we have scope for future operations, for e.g. counting
… and we have scope for future operations, for e.g. counting ←
14:18:16 <AxelPolleres> any further opinions on that?
Axel Polleres: any further opinions on that? ←
14:18:44 <SteveH> bglimm: one point in advantage of what we have now is that / reduces to normal BGP, so can rewrite
Birte Glimm: one point in advantage of what we have now is that / reduces to normal BGP, so can rewrite ←
14:18:57 <SteveH> … might be difficult if you had non-counting semantics
… might be difficult if you had non-counting semantics ←
14:18:57 <kasei> you can't always rewrite... (:a/:b)*
Gregory Williams: you can't always rewrite... (:a/:b)* ←
14:19:18 <SteveH> … you can rewrite the inner pattern to normal
… you can rewrite the inner pattern to normal ←
14:19:44 <SteveH> kasei: rewrite has to happen inside the exavuation
Gregory Williams: rewrite has to happen inside the exavuation ←
14:19:46 <AndyS> Non-rdf-list UC: SELECT (sum(?cost) AS ?total) { :order :hasItem/:price ?cost }
Andy Seaborne: Non-rdf-list UC: SELECT (sum(?cost) AS ?total) { :order :hasItem/:price ?cost } ←
14:20:57 <Zakim> -cbuilara
Zakim IRC Bot: -cbuilara ←
14:21:07 <AxelPolleres> Andy: would be non-intuitive otherwise
Andy Seaborne: would be non-intuitive otherwise [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:21:14 <SteveH> AndyS: I think the support and education costs of non-counting semantics would be considerable
Andy Seaborne: I think the support and education costs of non-counting semantics would be considerable ←
14:21:23 <SteveH> LeeF: volunterrs to draft response
Lee Feigenbaum: volunterrs to draft response ←
14:21:30 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: lee to draft joint official reply
ACTION: lee to draft joint official reply ←
14:21:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-608 - Draft joint official reply [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-04-17].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-608 - Draft joint official reply [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-04-17]. ←
14:21:39 <AndyS> (for "/" in the example -- i.e. on its own)
Andy Seaborne: (for "/" in the example -- i.e. on its own) ←
14:22:39 <SteveH> LeeF: intending to draft one response to all commenters
Lee Feigenbaum: intending to draft one response to all commenters ←
14:23:46 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: can you suggest date when we'll be at 2nd LC
Axel Polleres: can you suggest date when we'll be at 2nd LC ←
14:24:02 <SteveH> AndyS: I've not gone back to the document yet, but don't think it's a huge task
Andy Seaborne: I've not gone back to the document yet, but don't think it's a huge task ←
14:24:18 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
14:24:19 <AndyS> Regrets for next week.
Andy Seaborne: Regrets for next week. ←
14:24:24 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: can you update next week (on email)
Axel Polleres: can you update next week (on email) ←
14:24:34 <AxelPolleres> topic: Recent comments
14:24:38 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P3 is me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P3 is me ←
14:24:38 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it ←
14:24:41 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments ←
14:25:39 <SteveH> AxelPolleres, one comment by Alexander Dutton, two by Dave Beckett
AxelPolleres, one comment by Alexander Dutton, two by Dave Beckett ←
14:25:45 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: one comment by Alexander Dutton, two by Dave Beckett
Axel Polleres: one comment by Alexander Dutton, two by Dave Beckett ←
14:26:29 <SteveH> … any volunteers to take ownership?
… any volunteers to take ownership? ←
14:26:47 <AxelPolleres> anybody volunteering to take ownerhip for AD-1 and AH-1?
Axel Polleres: anybody volunteering to take ownerhip for AD-1 and AH-1? ←
14:26:59 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, pick a victim
Axel Polleres: Zakim, pick a victim ←
14:26:59 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose bglimm ←
14:29:39 <AxelPolleres> Any volunteers for DBeckett-4?
Axel Polleres: Any volunteers for DBeckett-4? ←
14:29:47 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, pick a victim
Axel Polleres: Zakim, pick a victim ←
14:29:47 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF ←
14:29:58 <kasei> is dajobe asking for a new test type in the manifests?
Gregory Williams: is dajobe asking for a new test type in the manifests? ←
14:30:39 <SteveH> LeeF: I think it would make more sense for someone who's looked into it
Lee Feigenbaum: I think it would make more sense for someone who's looked into it ←
14:30:44 <SteveH> … I'm not sure what he's asking for
… I'm not sure what he's asking for ←
14:31:15 <SteveH> … we have these evaluation tests that really test syntax
… we have these evaluation tests that really test syntax ←
14:31:58 <bglimm> q+ to ask about the comments I got assigned
Birte Glimm: q+ to ask about the comments I got assigned ←
14:32:43 <SteveH> [discussion about test types]
[discussion about test types] ←
14:33:26 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
14:35:05 <kasei> mf:CSVResultFormatTest
Gregory Williams: mf:CSVResultFormatTest ←
14:35:07 <AxelPolleres> something like CSV_Result_Test?
Axel Polleres: something like CSV_Result_Test? ←
14:35:19 <LeeF> I'm ok with that, kasei
Lee Feigenbaum: I'm ok with that, kasei ←
14:35:43 <SteveH> bglimm: the comments I got assigned suggest changing the semantics of BIND - is that even an option at this point?
Birte Glimm: the comments I got assigned suggest changing the semantics of BIND - is that even an option at this point? ←
14:35:53 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
14:36:30 <SteveH> AndyS: Dutton's comment suggests multiple BINDINGS, doesn't change semantics, but there's a gotcha
Andy Seaborne: Dutton's comment suggests multiple BINDINGS, doesn't change semantics, but there's a gotcha ←
14:36:44 <SteveH> … could be made to work, but it's not simple
… could be made to work, but it's not simple ←
14:37:04 <AxelPolleres> Dutton's comment looks more like a future-work-items comment, if anything?
Axel Polleres: Dutton's comment looks more like a future-work-items comment, if anything? ←
14:37:15 <SteveH> … Hogan's is quite different to current semanitcs
… Hogan's is quite different to current semanitcs ←
14:37:57 <SteveH> bglimm: he wants some examples added to current spec, I can't do that myself
Birte Glimm: he wants some examples added to current spec, I can't do that myself ←
14:38:01 <SteveH> q+
q+ ←
14:38:16 <bglimm> Zakim, ack me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, ack me ←
14:38:16 <Zakim> bglimm, you wanted to ask about the comments I got assigned
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm, you wanted to ask about the comments I got assigned ←
14:38:18 <Zakim> I see SteveH on the speaker queue
Zakim IRC Bot: I see SteveH on the speaker queue ←
14:38:45 <SteveH> SteveH: I don't think we should add more examples to the spec text - it's too big already
Steve Harris: I don't think we should add more examples to the spec text - it's too big already ←
14:39:03 <AndyS> (Just for the record, I prefer loop semantics so FILTERS work with BINDINGS)
Andy Seaborne: (Just for the record, I prefer loop semantics so FILTERS work with BINDINGS) ←
14:39:21 <AxelPolleres> Way forward on examples would be to check whether we have test cases for those example and refer to it.
Axel Polleres: Way forward on examples would be to check whether we have test cases for those example and refer to it. ←
14:39:31 <SteveH> bglimm: so I could say we don't add an example, but we've added a test case / there is already a test case XYZ
Birte Glimm: so I could say we don't add an example, but we've added a test case / there is already a test case XYZ ←
14:41:35 <kasei> there's big performance implications on doing the loop semantics. they might make sense for a few bindings, but sending in a huge list of bindings could be bad.
Gregory Williams: there's big performance implications on doing the loop semantics. they might make sense for a few bindings, but sending in a huge list of bindings could be bad. ←
14:47:12 <cbuilara> There is a system call FedX that implements SERVICE and implements a BIND JOIN, it gets the results from one SERVICE call and creates a set of queries ot the other remote SPARQL endpoints
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Carlos Buil Aranda: There is a system call FedX that implements SERVICE and implements a BIND JOIN, it gets the results from one SERVICE call and creates a set of queries ot the other remote SPARQL endpoints ←
14:47:42 <cbuilara> in a remote SPARQL endpoint configuration without result limit, it generates like 20000+ queries
Carlos Buil Aranda: in a remote SPARQL endpoint configuration without result limit, it generates like 20000+ queries ←
14:47:50 <cbuilara> using this BIND JOIN
Carlos Buil Aranda: using this BIND JOIN ←
14:47:51 <AxelPolleres> we do looping semantics in XSPARQL (SPARQL in XQUERY, where we also have SERVICE)
Axel Polleres: we do looping semantics in XSPARQL (SPARQL in XQUERY, where we also have SERVICE) ←
14:49:11 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
14:49:23 <AxelPolleres> greg: late in the game for changing the semantics
Gregory Williams: late in the game for changing the semantics [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:49:35 <SteveH> [discussion on semantics of BINDINGS]
[discussion on semantics of BINDINGS] ←
14:50:17 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: if we want something like templating, how would we do that with a non-conflicting design?
Axel Polleres: if we want something like templating, how would we do that with a non-conflicting design? ←
14:51:13 <SteveH> AndyS: I don't see the federated query issue - if it's loop substitiution semantics, I don't see why then engine can't [rewrite?]
Andy Seaborne: I don't see the federated query issue - if it's loop substitiution semantics, I don't see why then engine can't [rewrite?] ←
14:51:25 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: let's discuss on mailing lisyt
Axel Polleres: let's discuss on mailing lisyt ←
14:51:30 <AxelPolleres> I guess we need to let this comment simmer for a week or so and hopefully address AH-1 next time
Axel Polleres: I guess we need to let this comment simmer for a week or so and hopefully address AH-1 next time ←
14:51:42 <SteveH> … other issues?
… other issues? ←
14:51:50 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
14:51:53 <AndyS> can't not rewrite and send a single SERVICE and the bindings to the other end (hard to explain without a picture)
Andy Seaborne: can't not rewrite and send a single SERVICE and the bindings to the other end (hard to explain without a picture) ←
14:51:58 <SteveH> Zakim, ack me
Zakim, ack me ←
14:51:58 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
Zakim IRC Bot: I see no one on the speaker queue ←
14:52:38 <SteveH> AndyS: was there a discussion of schedule at start?
Andy Seaborne: was there a discussion of schedule at start? ←
14:53:05 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: yes, but didn't discuss schedule for other docs already into LC, into PR
Axel Polleres: yes, but didn't discuss schedule for other docs already into LC, into PR ←
14:53:36 <AxelPolleres> GSP, CSV, Overview should be published LC as soon as possible.
Axel Polleres: GSP, CSV, Overview should be published LC as soon as possible. ←
14:53:37 <SteveH> AndyS: Graph store protocol was approved in Feb. we should press on with that
Andy Seaborne: Graph store protocol was approved in Feb. we should press on with that ←
14:54:06 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
14:54:09 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: hopefully we will decide to publish Overview next week
Axel Polleres: hopefully we will decide to publish Overview next week ←
14:54:53 <AxelPolleres> plan for next week, to decide to publish GSP, CSV and Overview LC together asap (short after WWW), and talk about schedule for other docs (as well as test case licensing, etc.
Axel Polleres: plan for next week, to decide to publish GSP, CSV and Overview LC together asap (short after WWW), and talk about schedule for other docs (as well as test case licensing, etc. ←
14:55:43 <Zakim> - +1.781.899.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.781.899.aaee ←
14:55:44 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
14:55:46 <Zakim> -Olivier
Zakim IRC Bot: -Olivier ←
14:55:49 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
14:55:51 <Zakim> -cbuilara
Zakim IRC Bot: -cbuilara ←
14:55:53 <SteveH> adjourned
adjourned ←
14:55:56 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
14:55:58 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
14:56:03 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres ←
14:56:04 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
Axel Polleres: adjourned ←
14:56:04 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make records public ←
14:56:09 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
14:56:25 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
14:56:27 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended ←
14:56:27 <Zakim> Attendees were +43.664.801.173.aaaa, kasei, +33.4.92.38.aabb, Olivier, SteveH, bglimm, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, +1.603.897.aadd, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, cbuilara, AndyS,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +43.664.801.173.aaaa, kasei, +33.4.92.38.aabb, Olivier, SteveH, bglimm, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, +1.603.897.aadd, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, cbuilara, AndyS, ←
14:56:27 <Zakim> ... +1.781.899.aaee, EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.781.899.aaee, EricP ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2012-04-10 15:18:52 UTC by 'sharris2', comments: None