SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 31 January 2012

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-01-31
Seen
Alexandre Passant, Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Carlos Buil Aranda, Chimezie Ogbuji, Gregory Williams, Lee Feigenbaum, Matthew Perry, Nicholas Humfrey, Paul Gearon, Sandro Hawke, Steve Harris
Regrets
Nicholas Humfrey, Alexandre Passant
Chair
Axel Polleres
Scribe
Matthew Perry
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-24 link
  2. approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-federated-query link
  3. approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-query link
Topics
15:00:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-sparql-irc

15:00:54 <swh> Zakim, this will be SPARQL

Steve Harris: Zakim, this will be SPARQL

15:00:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:00:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

15:00:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now

15:00:58 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:00:58 <trackbot> Date: 31 January 2012
15:01:06 <axelpolleres> I have updated the agenda with more links at: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-01-31

Axel Polleres: I have updated the agenda with more links at: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-01-31

15:01:07 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:01:07 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, AndyS

15:01:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, chimezie, axelpolleres, MattPerry, swh, MacTed, LeeF, ouvasam, SteveH, AndyS, iv_an_ru, ya, NickH, pgearon, kasei, trackbot, ericP, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, chimezie, axelpolleres, MattPerry, swh, MacTed, LeeF, ouvasam, SteveH, AndyS, iv_an_ru, ya, NickH, pgearon, kasei, trackbot, ericP, sandro

15:01:19 <AndyS> zakim, this is 77277

Andy Seaborne: zakim, this is 77277

15:01:19 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

15:01:25 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:01:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, MattPerry, ??P10, +49.897.aaaa, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, MattPerry, ??P10, +49.897.aaaa, sandro

15:01:32 <AndyS> zakim, ??P10 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P10 is me

15:01:32 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:01:36 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

15:01:40 <swh> Zakim, ??P14 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P14 is me

15:01:40 <Zakim> +swh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +swh; got it

15:02:16 <axelpolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, MattPerry, AndyS, +49.897.aaaa, sandro, swh

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, MattPerry, AndyS, +49.897.aaaa, sandro, swh

15:02:18 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

15:02:30 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P19 is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, ??P19 is me

15:02:30 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

15:02:34 <axelpolleres> Zakim, aaaa is me

Axel Polleres: Zakim, aaaa is me

15:02:35 <Zakim> +axelpolleres; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +axelpolleres; got it

15:02:38 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

15:02:38 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

15:02:51 <axelpolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, MattPerry, AndyS, axelpolleres, sandro, swh, bglimm (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, MattPerry, AndyS, axelpolleres, sandro, swh, bglimm (muted)

15:03:13 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

15:03:20 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P21 is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P21 is me

15:03:20 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it

15:03:22 <axelpolleres> Agenda:  http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-01-31
15:03:35 <axelpolleres> regrets: Nicholas, Alex
15:03:44 <axelpolleres> chair: Axel Polleres
15:04:10 <axelpolleres> scribe: MattPerry

(Scribe set to Matthew Perry)

15:04:32 <axelpolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-24

PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-24

15:04:34 <MattPerry> topic: admin

1. admin

15:04:39 <Zakim> +chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: +chimezie

15:05:00 <axelpolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-24

RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-24

15:05:36 <axelpolleres> Next regular meeting: 2012-02-07 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Alex or Nicholas)

Axel Polleres: Next regular meeting: 2012-02-07 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Alex or Nicholas)

15:05:52 <MattPerry> axel: anything from the RDF working group

Axel Polleres: anything from the RDF working group

15:06:02 <MattPerry> AndyS: nothing to report

Andy Seaborne: nothing to report

15:06:15 <axelpolleres> topic: Graph Store Protocol

2. Graph Store Protocol

15:06:38 <axelpolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-01-31

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-01-31

15:06:49 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

15:07:00 <axelpolleres> Resolutions 2 and 3 from: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-10#Graph_Store_Protocol

Axel Polleres: Resolutions 2 and 3 from: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-10#Graph_Store_Protocol

15:07:06 <axelpolleres> Consensi from last week: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17#line0051

Axel Polleres: Consensi from last week: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17#line0051

15:08:07 <MattPerry> chimezie: resolutions apply only to SPARQL 1.1. graph stores, what about things that are not graph stores?

Chimezie Ogbuji: resolutions apply only to SPARQL 1.1. graph stores, what about things that are not graph stores?

15:08:46 <MattPerry> ... several things were still being discussed in email

... several things were still being discussed in email

15:09:22 <axelpolleres> Zaki, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zaki, who is on the phone?

15:09:24 <axelpolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

15:09:35 <MattPerry> ... BASE URI resolution and mt-uri

... BASE URI resolution and mt-uri

15:10:12 <axelpolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0008.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0008.html

15:10:23 <axelpolleres> (comment PF-1 )

Axel Polleres: (comment PF-1 )

15:10:45 <axelpolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Nov/0048.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Nov/0048.html

15:10:52 <axelpolleres> (comment JL-2)

Axel Polleres: (comment JL-2)

15:11:13 <axelpolleres> response before from sandro... will use similar wording.

Axel Polleres: response before from sandro... will use similar wording.

15:12:05 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:AL-1

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:AL-1

15:12:05 <axelpolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jun/0000.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jun/0000.html

15:12:09 <axelpolleres> (AL-1)

Axel Polleres: (AL-1)

15:12:33 <MattPerry> axel: do you need approval for that response

Axel Polleres: do you need approval for that response

15:12:47 <AndyS> DB-3 is editorial - response can be sent.

Andy Seaborne: DB-3 is editorial - response can be sent.

15:13:29 <MattPerry> chimezie: response mentions linked data protocol question about how to incorporate this into graph store protocol

Chimezie Ogbuji: response mentions linked data protocol question about how to incorporate this into graph store protocol

15:13:38 <AndyS> SJ-1? The response looks ready to go (and is OK).

Andy Seaborne: SJ-1? The response looks ready to go (and is OK).

15:13:53 <MattPerry> axel: we need to fix that before publishing the document

Axel Polleres: we need to fix that before publishing the document

15:14:06 <axelpolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011May/0033.html

Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011May/0033.html

15:15:30 <AndyS> q+ to talk (at some point) about base, append.  Not comment related.

Andy Seaborne: q+ to talk (at some point) about base, append. Not comment related.

15:16:17 <MattPerry> axe: let's get DB3 and SJ1 out of the way

Axel Polleres: let's get DB3 and SJ1 out of the way

15:16:26 <MattPerry> s/axe/axel
15:16:35 <MattPerry> axel: go ahead with DB3

Axel Polleres: go ahead with DB3

15:16:39 <MattPerry> ... anyone looked at SJ1

... anyone looked at SJ1

15:17:29 <MattPerry> ... from myside SJ1 looks ok as well

... from myside SJ1 looks ok as well

15:17:34 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011May/0033.html

Chimezie Ogbuji: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011May/0033.html

15:17:37 <chimezie> SJ-1

Chimezie Ogbuji: SJ-1

15:17:44 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:SJ-1

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:SJ-1

15:17:57 <axelpolleres> sandro: case spelling?

Sandro Hawke: case spelling? [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ]

15:18:11 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

15:18:20 <MattPerry> sandro: looks ok to me

Sandro Hawke: looks ok to me

15:18:39 <MattPerry> axel: anything we can do about AL1?

Axel Polleres: anything we can do about AL-1?

15:18:51 <MattPerry> s/AL1/AL-1
15:19:38 <MattPerry> axel: this is not included in the draft, right?

Axel Polleres: this is not included in the draft, right?

15:20:14 <MattPerry> chimezie: heard a few different suggestions, don't have a good idea what the consensus of the WG is

Chimezie Ogbuji: heard a few different suggestions, don't have a good idea what the consensus of the WG is

15:20:22 <LeeF> I think the WG stands that if the doc is scoped to graph store, then we're OK

Lee Feigenbaum: I think the WG stands that if the doc is scoped to graph store, then we're OK

15:20:27 <LeeF> right, what Sandro says

Lee Feigenbaum: right, what Sandro says

15:20:32 <MattPerry> sandro: the scope of the document was the way to handle this

Sandro Hawke: the scope of the document was the way to handle this

15:20:48 <MattPerry> ... POST append is find if this only applies to SPARQL 1.1 graph stores

... POST append is fine if this only applies to SPARQL 1.1 graph stores

15:20:55 <MattPerry> s/find/fine
15:21:17 <AndyS> q?

Andy Seaborne: q?

15:21:24 <MattPerry> chimezie: I can add some text to say what the scope is

Chimezie Ogbuji: I can add some text to say what the scope is

15:22:12 <MattPerry> AndyS: I think what we need is a restriction to a certain CASE (i.e. posting to graph rather than to a container)

Andy Seaborne: I think what we need is a restriction to a certain CASE (i.e. posting to graph rather than to a container)

15:22:21 <AndyS> ackme

Andy Seaborne: ackme

15:22:24 <AndyS> ack me

Andy Seaborne: ack me

15:22:24 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to talk (at some point) about base, append.  Not comment related.

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to talk (at some point) about base, append. Not comment related.

15:23:19 <MattPerry> axel: anything to discuss related to summarizing consensus from last telecon?

Axel Polleres: anything to discuss related to summarizing consensus from last telecon?

15:23:42 <axelpolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17#line0051

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17#line0051

15:24:59 <MattPerry> chimezie: I understand wording changes for PATCH

Chimezie Ogbuji: I understand wording changes for PATCH

15:26:06 <LeeF> _not necessarily_

Lee Feigenbaum: _not necessarily_

15:26:09 <LeeF> right

Lee Feigenbaum: right

15:26:20 <MattPerry> axel: graph store protocol is not the same as the SPARQL endpoint URI

Axel Polleres: graph store protocol does not need to be the same as the SPARQL endpoint URI

15:26:48 <MattPerry> sandro: service IRI is used as the indirect identifier

Sandro Hawke: service IRI is used as the indirect identifier

15:27:07 <axelpolleres> s/is not/does not need to be/
15:27:34 <LeeF> 2 weeks ago :)

Lee Feigenbaum: 2 weeks ago :)

15:27:37 <MattPerry> ... confusion on this issue is a problem

... confusion on this issue is a problem

15:28:09 <MattPerry> axel: this needs to more explicit in the document

Axel Polleres: this needs to more explicit in the document

15:29:04 <MattPerry> chimezie: one question was what is the relationship between the service for the graph store and the service for the SPARQL protocol

Chimezie Ogbuji: one question was what is the relationship between the service for the graph store and the service for the SPARQL protocol

15:29:30 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:29:31 <MattPerry> ... the other question is how do we describe/discover the graph store service

... the other question is how do we describe/discover the graph store service

15:30:12 <MattPerry> sandro: for question 1, the SPARQL endpiont URI is not necessarily related to the graph store service URI

Sandro Hawke: for question 1, the SPARQL endpiont URI is not necessarily related to the graph store service URI

15:30:30 <MattPerry> ... a lot of people may think they are the same

... a lot of people may think they are the same

15:31:28 <MattPerry> sandro: does this get rid of the notion of a servcie URI?

Sandro Hawke: does this get rid of the notion of a servcie URI?

15:31:35 <MattPerry> chimezie: yes

Chimezie Ogbuji: yes

15:31:56 <MattPerry> sandro: if you do a get on the service, you get a service description

Sandro Hawke: if you do a get on the service, you get a service description

15:32:09 <MattPerry> chimezie: all service description references will be removed

Chimezie Ogbuji: all service description references will be removed

15:32:17 <sandro> (in the old text, to go away)

Sandro Hawke: (in the old text, to go away)

15:32:25 <MattPerry> ... there will be a few lines about how to address the graph store

... there will be a few lines about how to address the graph store

15:32:56 <MattPerry> axel: when do you think these changes will be implemented?

Axel Polleres: when do you think these changes will be implemented?

15:32:59 <sandro> chime: Planning to remove the notion of Service IRI, and just use the GraphStore IRI.

Chimezie Ogbuji: Planning to remove the notion of Service IRI, and just use the GraphStore IRI. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:33:02 <MattPerry> ... first we need another review

... first we need another review

15:33:05 <sandro> sandro: sounds good

Sandro Hawke: sounds good [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:33:28 <MattPerry> chimezie: probably Thursday

Chimezie Ogbuji: probably Thursday

15:33:38 <axelpolleres> ACTION: chime to send a mail to the group when final wording on GSP is in place

ACTION: chime to send a mail to the group when final wording on GSP is in place

15:33:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-582 - Send a mail to the group when final wording on GSP is in place [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-02-07].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-582 - Send a mail to the group when final wording on GSP is in place [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-02-07].

15:34:08 <axelpolleres> ACTION: sandro to review GSP upon completion of ACTION-582

ACTION: sandro to review GSP upon completion of ACTION-582

15:34:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-583 - Review GSP upon completion of ACTION-582 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2012-02-07].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-583 - Review GSP upon completion of ACTION-582 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2012-02-07].

15:34:19 <MattPerry> axel: second reviewer?

Axel Polleres: second reviewer?

15:34:46 <axelpolleres> Zakim, pick a victim

Axel Polleres: Zakim, pick a victim

15:34:46 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose bglimm (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose bglimm (muted)

15:34:54 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me

15:34:54 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted

15:35:08 <MattPerry> bglimm: not sure I'm really qualified to review it

Birte Glimm: not sure I'm really qualified to review it

15:35:19 <MattPerry> axel: I think it will be ok

Axel Polleres: I think it will be ok

15:35:29 <MattPerry> bglimm: I can do a quick review

Birte Glimm: I can do a quick review

15:35:39 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

15:35:39 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

15:35:51 <axelpolleres> ACTION: birte to review GSP upon completion of ACTION-582

ACTION: birte to review GSP upon completion of ACTION-582

15:35:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-584 - Review GSP upon completion of ACTION-582 [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-02-07].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-584 - Review GSP upon completion of ACTION-582 [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-02-07].

15:36:27 <MattPerry> topic: Test Cases

3. Test Cases

15:36:33 <LeeF> Right, the ones that are passed by ARQ and RDF::Query, in particular

Lee Feigenbaum: Right, the ones that are passed by ARQ and RDF::Query, in particular

15:36:56 <MattPerry> axel: looking to approve those that are passed by 2 implementations

Axel Polleres: looking to approve those that are passed by 2 implementations

15:37:00 <axelpolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/

15:37:03 <kasei> not represented on that page, the federation tests all pass on both ARQ and RDF::Query.

Gregory Williams: not represented on that page, the federation tests all pass on both ARQ and RDF::Query.

15:37:14 <MattPerry> axel: any updates to that list?

Axel Polleres: any updates to that list?

15:37:44 <MattPerry> kasei: test status are current, but implementation status has changed a bit

Gregory Williams: test status are current, but implementation status has changed a bit

15:37:57 <LeeF> :-)

Lee Feigenbaum: :-)

15:38:11 <MattPerry> AndyS: couple of small details that were changed in the test

Andy Seaborne: couple of small details that were changed in the test

15:38:20 <MattPerry> .... just fixing mistakes

.... just fixing mistakes

15:38:35 <MattPerry> kasei: those changes look fine to me

Gregory Williams: those changes look fine to me

15:38:46 <MattPerry> ... would be good if someone else looks at them

... would be good if someone else looks at them

15:38:58 <MattPerry> LeeF: they look fine to me, but I have not looked in detail

Lee Feigenbaum: they look fine to me, but I have not looked in detail

15:39:27 <kasei> if we have time, I'd like to discuss the COPY/MOVE tests that I emailed the list about.

Gregory Williams: if we have time, I'd like to discuss the COPY/MOVE tests that I emailed the list about.

15:39:40 <axelpolleres> PROPOSED: approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-federated-query

PROPOSED: approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-federated-query

15:39:58 <LeeF> Seconded.

Lee Feigenbaum: Seconded.

15:39:58 <kasei> +1

Gregory Williams: +1

15:40:03 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

15:40:03 <axelpolleres> +1

Axel Polleres: +1

15:40:06 <cbuilara> +1

Carlos Buil Aranda: +1

15:40:18 <axelpolleres> RESOLVED: approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-federated-query

RESOLVED: approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-federated-query

15:40:45 <AndyS> (cbuilara? - were the changes OK with you?)

Andy Seaborne: (cbuilara? - were the changes OK with you?)

15:40:56 <MattPerry> axel: also have 100% coverage on the query language tests

Axel Polleres: also have 100% coverage on the query language tests

15:41:04 <LeeF> big kudos to Andy and Greg as shining examples for the rest of the SPARQL implementation world!

Lee Feigenbaum: big kudos to Andy and Greg as shining examples for the rest of the SPARQL implementation world!

15:41:18 <axelpolleres> PROPOSED: approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-query

PROPOSED: approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-query

15:41:22 <LeeF> seconded

Lee Feigenbaum: seconded

15:41:33 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

15:41:38 <MattPerry> +1

+1

15:41:44 <kasei> +1

Gregory Williams: +1

15:42:05 <axelpolleres> RESOLVED: approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-query

RESOLVED: approve all non-approved test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/#sparql11-query

15:42:22 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:42:30 <MattPerry> axel: Update Tests: still don't have 100% coverage

Axel Polleres: Update Tests: still don't have 100% coverage

15:42:43 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:43:10 <MattPerry> kasei: found some significant problems with the update shortcuts

Gregory Williams: found some significant problems with the update shortcuts

15:43:45 <MattPerry> ... the text says COPY/MOVE equivelent to e.g. DROP + MOVE, but is this really the case?

... the text says COPY/MOVE equivelent to e.g. DROP + ADD, but is this really the case?

15:43:52 <LeeF> I've reviewed Greg's notes and agree that the definitions are broken as-is.

Lee Feigenbaum: I've reviewed Greg's notes and agree that the definitions are broken as-is.

15:44:11 <MattPerry> s/DROP + MOVE/DROP + ADD
15:44:15 <AndyS> Suggestion - let's not approve the update tests today, discuss on email, and move on to the easy ones we can pass (results formats).  Need Paul as  update editor.

Andy Seaborne: Suggestion - let's not approve the update tests today, discuss on email, and move on to the easy ones we can pass (results formats). Need Paul as update editor.

15:44:35 <AndyS> The tests are excellent in finding this.

Andy Seaborne: The tests are excellent in finding this.

15:45:00 <MattPerry> kasei: copy graph to itself intuitively should be a no-op but strictly following the spec gets rid of the graph

Gregory Williams: copy graph to itself intuitively should be a no-op but strictly following the spec gets rid of the graph

15:45:00 <axelpolleres> COPY/MOVE definitions need to be fixed in terms of calling them shortcuts

Axel Polleres: COPY/MOVE definitions need to be fixed in terms of calling them shortcuts

15:45:20 <pgearon> I agree with kasei on the problems with the language inconsistency

Paul Gearon: I agree with kasei on the problems with the language inconsistency

15:46:17 <MattPerry> pgearon: The language inconsistency should be fixed

Paul Gearon: The language inconsistency should be fixed

15:46:53 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me

15:46:53 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should now be muted

15:47:04 <MattPerry> pgearon: I'd be inclined to use the equivalent operations and say if it's the same graph it becomes a no-op

Paul Gearon: I'd be inclined to use the equivalent operations and say if it's the same graph it becomes a no-op

15:47:30 <MattPerry> kasei: still have the issue of 1 operation vs a set of operations

Gregory Williams: still have the issue of 1 operation vs a set of operations

15:47:38 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:47:58 <MattPerry> ... are the shortcuts atomic?

... are the shortcuts atomic?

15:48:19 <MattPerry> LeeF: greg, would you prefer atomic or not?

Lee Feigenbaum: greg, would you prefer atomic or not?

15:48:26 <axelpolleres> ACTION: Paul to suggest some fixing of the wording regarding COPY/MOVE equivalent operations (reagrding atomicity and remarking that some are no-op) and about failure on empty graphs

ACTION: Paul to suggest some fixing of the wording regarding COPY/MOVE equivalent operations (reagrding atomicity and remarking that some are no-op) and about failure on empty graphs

15:48:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-585 - Suggest some fixing of the wording regarding COPY/MOVE equivalent operations (reagrding atomicity and remarking that some are no-op) and about failure on empty graphs [on Paul Gearon - due 2012-02-07].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-585 - Suggest some fixing of the wording regarding COPY/MOVE equivalent operations (reagrding atomicity and remarking that some are no-op) and about failure on empty graphs [on Paul Gearon - due 2012-02-07].

15:48:59 <MattPerry> kasei: I'd be happy to not require the shortcuts but don't think this is an option

Gregory Williams: I'd be happy to not require the shortcuts but don't think this is an option

15:49:49 <MattPerry> AndyS: the word atomic is used in 2 different places

Andy Seaborne: the word atomic is used in 2 different places

15:50:04 <MattPerry> .. for update requests and in the formal definitions

.. for update requests and in the formal definitions

15:50:17 <MattPerry> ... I don't think it needs to be in the formal section

... I don't think it needs to be in the formal section

15:50:37 <axelpolleres> "By 'atomic operation' we mean that the operation performs the described transformation of the Graph Store either completely or leaves the Graph Store unchanged, i.e., the result is either GS' or GS (in case of error)."

Axel Polleres: "By 'atomic operation' we mean that the operation performs the described transformation of the Graph Store either completely or leaves the Graph Store unchanged, i.e., the result is either GS' or GS (in case of error)."

15:51:15 <MattPerry> ... If we remove atomic from the formal section, this may fix the problem

... If we remove atomic from the formal section, this may fix the problem

15:51:50 <LeeF> kasei, if the word "atomic" were removed from the formal definition of an operation, would you be OK with that?

Lee Feigenbaum: kasei, if the word "atomic" were removed from the formal definition of an operation, would you be OK with that?

15:52:15 <kasei> LeeF: the word? or that whole sentence?

Gregory Williams: LeeF, the word? or that whole sentence?

15:52:41 <MattPerry> AndyS: if there is no reference to SILENT in the formal section, then error handling is outside of the formal definition

Andy Seaborne: if there is no reference to SILENT in the formal section, then error handling is outside of the formal definition

15:52:49 <kasei> s/LeeF:/LeeF,/
15:53:00 <LeeF> the word, I guess?

Lee Feigenbaum: the word, I guess?

15:53:07 <LeeF> But I guess the whole sentence

Lee Feigenbaum: But I guess the whole sentence

15:53:08 <LeeF> now that I read it

Lee Feigenbaum: now that I read it

15:53:09 <LeeF> :)

Lee Feigenbaum: :)

15:53:43 <MattPerry> LeeF: removing "atomic" removes a requirement

Lee Feigenbaum: removing "atomic" removes a requirement

15:53:47 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:53:54 <LeeF> ack AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS

15:54:07 <MattPerry> AndyS: you could say these operations describe the before and after state of the graph store

Andy Seaborne: you could say these operations describe the before and after state of the graph store

15:54:11 <pgearon> +q

Paul Gearon: +q

15:54:54 <MattPerry> axel: I think you're right that we can drop it

Axel Polleres: I think you're right that we can drop it

15:55:06 <axelpolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

15:55:16 <AndyS> ack kasei

Andy Seaborne: ack kasei

15:55:23 <MattPerry> kasei: I'm worried that we are going to require code changes

Gregory Williams: I'm worried that we are going to require code changes

15:55:34 <LeeF> It's a bug fix

Lee Feigenbaum: It's a bug fix

15:55:36 <MattPerry> ... for people that used the equivalent expanded form

... for people that used the equivalent expanded form

15:56:14 <axelpolleres> Agreement to remive "atomic" from http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-update/#def_updateoperation?

Axel Polleres: Agreement to remove "atomic" from http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-update/#def_updateoperation?

15:57:19 <MattPerry> s/remive/remove
15:57:53 <LeeF> ack pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon

15:58:13 <MattPerry> pgearon: I'm concerned about a non-atomic implementation during concurrent queries

Paul Gearon: I'm concerned about a non-atomic implementation during concurrent queries

15:58:21 <MattPerry> ... is this ok?

... is this ok?

15:59:07 <MattPerry> AndyS: is it the overall request that should be atomic?

Andy Seaborne: is it the overall request that should be atomic?

15:59:26 <MattPerry> pgearon: what about while the update is processing

Paul Gearon: what about while the update is processing

15:59:52 <AndyS> ping - formats tests?  I can stay for +10 mins.

Andy Seaborne: ping - formats tests? I can stay for +10 mins.

16:00:29 <axelpolleres> ACTION-585, Paul to remove "atomic" from http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-update/#def_updateoperation

Axel Polleres: ACTION-585, Paul to remove "atomic" from http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-update/#def_updateoperation

16:00:29 <trackbot> ACTION-585 Suggest some fixing of the wording regarding COPY/MOVE equivalent operations (reagrding atomicity and remarking that some are no-op) and about failure on empty graphs notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-585 Suggest some fixing of the wording regarding COPY/MOVE equivalent operations (reagrding atomicity and remarking that some are no-op) and about failure on empty graphs notes added

16:01:28 <LeeF> want to discuss prop path comments next time - saw some IRC discussion - would be good to have it on mailing list

Lee Feigenbaum: want to discuss prop path comments next time - saw some IRC discussion - would be good to have it on mailing list

16:01:31 <Zakim> -LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF

16:01:48 <Zakim> -chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: -chimezie

16:01:49 <axelpolleres> adjourned

Axel Polleres: adjourned

16:01:52 <Zakim> -MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry

16:01:53 <bglimm> bze

Birte Glimm: bze

16:01:54 <Zakim> -sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro

16:01:56 <bglimm> bye

Birte Glimm: bye

16:01:59 <Zakim> -swh

Zakim IRC Bot: -swh

16:02:04 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:02:06 <Zakim> -bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm

16:02:08 <Zakim> -cbuilara

Zakim IRC Bot: -cbuilara

16:02:12 <axelpolleres> rrsagent, makre records public

Axel Polleres: rrsagent, makre records public

16:02:12 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'makre records public', axelpolleres.  Try /msg RRSAgent help

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'makre records public', axelpolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:02:22 <axelpolleres> rrsagent, make records public

Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make records public

16:02:33 <Zakim> -axelpolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: -axelpolleres

16:02:35 <Zakim> -kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei

16:03:37 <Zakim> -pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon

16:03:38 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

16:03:44 <Zakim> Attendees were kasei, MattPerry, +49.897.aaaa, sandro, AndyS, swh, bglimm, axelpolleres, cbuilara, chimezie, pgearon, LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were kasei, MattPerry, +49.897.aaaa, sandro, AndyS, swh, bglimm, axelpolleres, cbuilara, chimezie, pgearon, LeeF



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This revision (#2) generated 2012-01-31 16:15:56 UTC by 'apollere2', comments: None