SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 24 January 2012

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0075.html
Seen
Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Carlos Buil Aranda, Chimezie Ogbuji, Gregory Williams, Lee Feigenbaum, Matthew Perry, Olivier Corby, Paul Gearon, Steve Harris
Regrets
Axel Polleres, Olivier Corby
Scribe
Andy Seaborne
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Approve last week's minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17 link
Topics
15:00:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/24-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/24-sparql-irc

15:00:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:00:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

15:00:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now

15:00:20 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:00:21 <trackbot> Date: 24 January 2012
15:00:27 <swh> Zakim, who's on the call?

Steve Harris: Zakim, who's on the call?

15:00:27 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, swh

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, swh

15:00:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, cbuilara, swh, MacTed, AndyS, bglimm, SteveH, iv_an_ru, LeeF, Andrei, kasei, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, cbuilara, swh, MacTed, AndyS, bglimm, SteveH, iv_an_ru, LeeF, Andrei, kasei, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro

15:00:31 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL

15:00:31 <Zakim> ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started

15:00:35 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

15:00:38 <swh> Zakim, who's on the call?

Steve Harris: Zakim, who's on the call?

15:00:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P12, ??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P12, ??P13

15:00:39 <AndyS> zakim, ??P13 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P13 is me

15:00:41 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:00:45 <swh> Zakim, ??P12 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P12 is me

15:00:47 <Zakim> +swh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +swh; got it

15:00:49 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

15:00:52 <LeeF> phone is frozen

Lee Feigenbaum: phone is frozen

15:00:54 <LeeF> nice

Lee Feigenbaum: nice

15:00:55 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P19 is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, ??P19 is me

15:00:57 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

15:00:59 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

15:00:59 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

15:01:03 <Zakim> +kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei

15:01:21 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum

15:01:29 <LeeF> zakkim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me

Lee Feigenbaum: zakkim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me

15:01:32 <LeeF> zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me

15:01:35 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF; got it

15:01:55 <Zakim> +??P29

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29

15:02:01 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P29 is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P29 is me

15:02:07 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it

15:02:09 <Zakim> +MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry

15:02:25 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone?

15:02:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see swh, AndyS, bglimm (muted), kasei, LeeF, cbuilara, MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see swh, AndyS, bglimm (muted), kasei, LeeF, cbuilara, MattPerry

15:02:58 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me

15:03:09 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS

(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)

15:03:13 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted

15:03:17 <AndyS> scribe: Andy Seaborne
15:03:41 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0075.html
15:03:45 <Zakim> + +1.540.841.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.841.aaaa

15:03:47 <LeeF> topic: Admin

1. Admin

15:04:10 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve last week's minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17

PROPOSED: Approve last week's minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17

15:04:17 <pgearon> Zakim, aaaa is me

Paul Gearon: Zakim, aaaa is me

15:04:17 <Zakim> +pgearon; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon; got it

15:04:27 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Olivier
15:04:40 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17

RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-17

15:04:49 <chimezie> Zakim, what is the passcode?

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, what is the passcode?

15:04:52 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chimezie

15:04:53 <LeeF> Next meeting is on 1/31

Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting is on 1/31

15:05:28 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.368.aabb

15:05:38 <chimezie> Zakim +1.216.368.aabb is me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim +1.216.368.aabb is me

15:05:51 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me

15:05:51 <Zakim> sorry, chimezie, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, chimezie, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

15:05:58 <LeeF> Lee: RDF WG?

Lee Feigenbaum: RDF WG? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:06:05 <LeeF> AndyS: pretty quiet, discussing graph use cases

Andy Seaborne: pretty quiet, discussing graph use cases [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:06:11 <LeeF> ...small point around turtle and hex binary

Lee Feigenbaum: ...small point around turtle and hex binary

15:06:19 <chimezie> Zakim, 1.216.368.aabb is me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, 1.216.368.aabb is me

15:06:19 <Zakim> sorry, chimezie, I do not recognize a party named '1.216.368.aabb'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, chimezie, I do not recognize a party named '1.216.368.aabb'

15:06:22 <LeeF> ...about whitespace, but I don't think there will be progress on that

Lee Feigenbaum: ...about whitespace, but I don't think there will be progress on that

15:06:50 <AndyS> topic: tests

2. tests

15:07:10 <LeeF> implementation report is here: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/

Lee Feigenbaum: implementation report is here: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/

15:08:07 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.368.aabb is me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, +1.216.368.aabb is me

15:08:07 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +chimezie; got it

15:08:12 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me

15:08:12 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should now be muted

15:08:40 <AndyS> kasei:chnages Update syntax shortcuts, qname escapes, a few other things

Gregory Williams: chnages Update syntax shortcuts, qname escapes, a few other things

15:08:50 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone?

15:08:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see swh, AndyS, bglimm, kasei, LeeF, cbuilara, MattPerry, pgearon, chimezie (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see swh, AndyS, bglimm, kasei, LeeF, cbuilara, MattPerry, pgearon, chimezie (muted)

15:08:53 <AndyS> ... last run Oct 2011.

... last run Oct 2011.

15:09:03 <AndyS> ... despite CVS timestamp.

... despite CVS timestamp.

15:09:20 <chimezie> I can do all of the above but just for some entailment tests

Chimezie Ogbuji: I can do all of the above but just for some entailment tests

15:09:20 <AndyS> Leef: anyone else in a position to run the test suite?

Lee Feigenbaum: anyone else in a position to run the test suite?

15:09:24 <pgearon> not me at all

Paul Gearon: not me at all

15:09:35 <MattPerry> We use ARQ, so our results will basically be the same

Matthew Perry: We use ARQ, so our results will basically be the same

15:09:43 <bglimm> Hopefully I can run the tests in a few weeks (entailment tests mainly though)

Birte Glimm: Hopefully I can run the tests in a few weeks (entailment tests mainly though)

15:10:30 <AndyS> LeeF:want to batch approve all tests in two impls.

Lee Feigenbaum: want to batch approve all tests in two impls.

15:11:19 <bglimm> Michael Schneider wanted to implement ent. regimes. I haven't talked to him recently to see where he stands

Birte Glimm: Michael Schneider wanted to implement ent. regimes. I haven't talked to him recently to see where he stands

15:11:24 <AndyS> AndyS: Reach out to other implementations.

Andy Seaborne: Reach out to other implementations.

15:11:45 <AndyS> LeeF: Will go outbound soon so we get feedback on mechanisms ASAP.

Lee Feigenbaum: Will go outbound soon so we get feedback on mechanisms ASAP.

15:12:05 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to post about test suite on public-sparql-dev and -comments list and reach out to implementors

ACTION: Lee to post about test suite on public-sparql-dev and -comments list and reach out to implementors

15:12:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-579 - Post about test suite on public-sparql-dev and -comments list and reach out to implementors [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-01-31].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-579 - Post about test suite on public-sparql-dev and -comments list and reach out to implementors [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-01-31].

15:12:29 <AndyS> LeeF: Query first

Lee Feigenbaum: Query first

15:13:33 <AndyS> Mechanism -- approve all but specific tests based on last report.

Mechanism -- approve all but specific tests based on last report.

15:14:08 <LeeF> agg-err-{01,02}

Lee Feigenbaum: agg-err-{01,02}

15:16:29 <AndyS> ARQ runs the agg tests and functions all OK (from CVS)

ARQ runs the agg tests and functions all OK (from CVS)

15:19:16 <AndyS> ARQ runs the update silent test all successesfully

ARQ runs the update silent test all successesfully

15:19:35 <LeeF> close ACTION-575

Lee Feigenbaum: close ACTION-575

15:19:35 <trackbot> ACTION-575 Propose tests for ADD, MOVE, and COPY closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-575 Propose tests for ADD, MOVE, and COPY closed

15:19:50 <AndyS> LeeF: newer tests from Matt.  ARQ reports running them OK.

Lee Feigenbaum: newer tests from Matt. ARQ reports running them OK.

15:19:56 <LeeF> close ACTION-574

Lee Feigenbaum: close ACTION-574

15:19:56 <trackbot> ACTION-574 Propose tests for positive use of EXISTS closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-574 Propose tests for positive use of EXISTS closed

15:20:15 <AndyS> .. EXISTS tests look OK  (2 impls pass the tests)

.. EXISTS tests look OK (2 impls pass the tests)

15:21:16 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to re-run the implementation report and check in an updated one

ACTION: Greg to re-run the implementation report and check in an updated one

15:21:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-580 - Re-run the implementation report and check in an updated one [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-01-31].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-580 - Re-run the implementation report and check in an updated one [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-01-31].

15:22:59 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:23:02 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:23:02 <AndyS> LeeF: For CR - snapshot place and fixed report place

Lee Feigenbaum: For CR - snapshot place and fixed report place

15:24:55 <AndyS> kasei: SHA384 still there

Gregory Williams: SHA384 still there

15:25:00 <AndyS> AndyS: I'll remove them.

Andy Seaborne: I'll remove them.

15:25:05 <AndyS> topic: protocol

3. protocol

15:26:23 <AndyS> LeeF: Easier to start again - need an online service that will poke a server with the protocol.

Lee Feigenbaum: Easier to start again - need an online service that will poke a server with the protocol.

15:26:33 <AndyS> ... service description testing ...

... service description testing ...

15:27:05 <AndyS> kasei: Online form, for a URL, get back a report of SD conformance 9(3 tests currently)

Gregory Williams: Online form, for a URL, get back a report of SD conformance 9(3 tests currently)

15:27:11 <kasei> http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sdvalidator.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyrdf.us%2Fsparql11&submit=Submit

Gregory Williams: http://kasei.us/2009/09/sparql/sdvalidator.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyrdf.us%2Fsparql11&submit=Submit

15:27:30 <AndyS> ... conneg -> EARl if RDF.

... conneg -> EARl if RDF.

15:28:38 <AndyS> LeeF: coverage page says we will have 2+ impls. We may need to encourage people to put up SD's

Lee Feigenbaum: coverage page says we will have 2+ impls. We may need to encourage people to put up SD's

15:29:50 <AndyS> ... mildly related ... anyone at SemTech presenting SPARQL 1.1?

... mildly related ... anyone at SemTech presenting SPARQL 1.1?

15:30:18 <AndyS> LeeF: want similar set up for protocol - something that poke a service.

Lee Feigenbaum: want similar set up for protocol - something that poke a service.

15:30:38 <AndyS> .. drive by the examples in the protocol doc.

.. drive by the examples in the protocol doc.

15:30:53 <AndyS> ... one new thing - query as application/sparql-query

... one new thing - query as application/sparql-query

15:31:50 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to work changes to protocol TR publication back into editor's draft

ACTION: Lee to work changes to protocol TR publication back into editor's draft

15:31:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-581 - Work changes to protocol TR publication back into editor's draft [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-01-31].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-581 - Work changes to protocol TR publication back into editor's draft [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-01-31].

15:32:35 <AndyS> LeeF: Overall next week, approve all that is green x2 impls

Lee Feigenbaum: Overall next week, approve all that is green x2 impls

15:33:04 <LeeF> ACTION-580?

Lee Feigenbaum: ACTION-580?

15:33:04 <trackbot> ACTION-580 -- Gregory Williams to re-run the implementation report and check in an updated one -- due 2012-01-31 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-580 -- Gregory Williams to re-run the implementation report and check in an updated one -- due 2012-01-31 -- OPEN

15:33:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/580

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/580

15:33:11 <AndyS> Topic: TSV/CSV formats

4. TSV/CSV formats

15:35:16 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2011/05/sparql-charter

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2011/05/sparql-charter

15:36:40 <AndyS> LeeF: Concern is that it is two different formats.

Lee Feigenbaum: Concern is that it is two different formats.

15:37:07 <AndyS> ... CSV is string forms, TSV is full Turtle terms.

... CSV is string forms, TSV is full Turtle terms.

15:37:10 <swh> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:37:32 <AndyS> ... found this strange - not the way I'd do it.

... found this strange - not the way I'd do it.

15:37:57 <AndyS> ... but not an issue to hold up over.  Still want some discussion on it though.

... but not an issue to hold up over. Still want some discussion on it though.

15:38:05 <LeeF> ack swh

Lee Feigenbaum: ack swh

15:39:13 <AndyS> swh: Understand the concern; CSV in excel often does not want Turtle details (experience); TSV is for programs.  No user feedback againt it.

Steve Harris: Understand the concern; CSV in excel often does not want Turtle details (experience); TSV is for programs. No user feedback againt it.

15:39:17 <AndyS> q+

q+

15:39:22 <LeeF> ack Andrei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack Andrei

15:39:25 <LeeF> ack AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS

15:39:37 <swh> AndyS: experience is that TSV is quite popular

Andy Seaborne: experience is that TSV is quite popular [ Scribe Assist by Steve Harris ]

15:39:46 <swh> … people use CSV but a little bit

Steve Harris: … people use CSV but a little bit

15:39:53 <swh> … and it's very fast to produce

Steve Harris: … and it's very fast to produce

15:40:10 <swh> … get the why does ntriples parse faster than turtle effect

Steve Harris: … get the why does ntriples parse faster than turtle effect

15:40:18 <swh> … don't see much use of CSV

Steve Harris: … don't see much use of CSV

15:40:31 <swh> … people dont see it in the wild as being different formats, lots of confusion

Steve Harris: … people dont see it in the wild as being different formats, lots of confusion

15:40:40 <swh> … there's a lot of confusion in the wild

Steve Harris: … there's a lot of confusion in the wild

15:41:09 <AndyS> LeeF: can  be explained

Lee Feigenbaum: can be explained

15:41:35 <swh> AndyS: which ones does Anzo use

Andy Seaborne: which ones does Anzo use [ Scribe Assist by Steve Harris ]

15:41:36 <AndyS> ... Anzo does the string form (CSV)

... Anzo does the string form (CSV)

15:42:39 <kasei> I'm in agreement with Lee. Seems weird, but think it can be explained.

Gregory Williams: I'm in agreement with Lee. Seems weird, but think it can be explained.

15:43:23 <AndyS> LeeF: Consensus on two formats - issue of confusion recognized as possible.

Lee Feigenbaum: Consensus on two formats - issue of confusion recognized as possible.

15:44:03 <AndyS> AndyS: Needs more examples

Andy Seaborne: Needs more examples

15:44:37 <AndyS> LeeF: Seems better to make it REC track.

Lee Feigenbaum: Seems better to make it REC track.

15:44:58 <AndyS> ... next step - complete doc and then move forward through process.

... next step - complete doc and then move forward through process.

15:45:36 <AndyS> Topic: AOB

5. AOB

15:45:44 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, unmute me

15:45:44 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should no longer be muted

15:46:00 <AndyS> LeeF: Chime - anything about graph store?

Lee Feigenbaum: Chime - anything about graph store?

15:46:00 <kasei> q+ to ask about ACTION-573 (aggregate errors)

Gregory Williams: q+ to ask about ACTION-573 (aggregate errors)

15:46:13 <AndyS> chime: next time please

Chimezie Ogbuji: next time please

15:46:23 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:46:23 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to ask about ACTION-573 (aggregate errors)

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, you wanted to ask about ACTION-573 (aggregate errors)

15:47:02 <AndyS> kasei: need more agg-error tests?

Gregory Williams: need more agg-error tests?

15:47:06 <LeeF> close ACTION-573

Lee Feigenbaum: close ACTION-573

15:47:06 <trackbot> ACTION-573 Propose tests for aggregate evaluation errors closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-573 Propose tests for aggregate evaluation errors closed

15:47:07 <AndyS> LeeF: No - it's done.

Lee Feigenbaum: No - it's done.

15:47:48 <AndyS> ADJOURNED

ADJOURNED



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This revision (#1) generated 2012-01-24 15:51:34 UTC by 'aseaborne', comments: None