SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 17 January 2012

Agenda
test suite
Seen
Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Carlos Buil Aranda, Gregory Williams, Lee Feigenbaum, Matthew Perry, Olivier Corby, Paul Gearon, Sandro Hawke, Steve Harris
Regrets
Axel Polleres, Andy Seaborne, Carlos Buil Aranda
Chair
Lee Feigenbaum
Scribe
Paul Gearon
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Approve last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-10 link
Topics
14:57:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/17-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/17-sparql-irc

14:57:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:57:36 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

14:57:36 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

14:57:37 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:57:37 <trackbot> Date: 17 January 2012
14:57:42 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL

14:57:42 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

14:57:44 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:57:48 <LeeF> Agenda: test suite
14:57:55 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, AndyS
14:57:59 <LeeF>  Risk: SteveH, Sandro

Lee Feigenbaum: Risk: SteveH, Sandro

14:58:06 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, AndyS, Carlos
14:58:42 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

14:58:48 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

15:00:18 <Zakim> +MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry

15:00:21 <Zakim> +kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei

15:01:11 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.4.92.38.aaaa

15:01:27 <Olivier> zakim, aaaa is me

Olivier Corby: zakim, aaaa is me

15:01:27 <Zakim> +Olivier; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Olivier; got it

15:01:30 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5

15:01:35 <swh> Zakim, ??P5 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P5 is me

15:01:35 <Zakim> +swh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +swh; got it

15:01:56 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

15:02:29 <Zakim> +sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro

15:03:05 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone?

15:03:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, MattPerry, kasei, Olivier, swh, pgearon, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see LeeF, MattPerry, kasei, Olivier, swh, pgearon, sandro

15:03:31 <pgearon> can do that

Paul Gearon: can do that

15:03:35 <LeeF> many thanks

Lee Feigenbaum: many thanks

15:03:50 <LeeF> scribenick: pgearon

(Scribe set to Paul Gearon)

15:05:05 <pgearon> LeeF: does anyone remember discussion CSV/TSV discussion? (deafening silence)

Lee Feigenbaum: does anyone remember discussion CSV/TSV discussion? (deafening silence)

15:05:46 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

15:05:57 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P15 is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, ??P15 is me

15:05:57 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

15:06:02 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

15:06:02 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

15:06:17 <pgearon> LeeF: will not review the CSV/TSV document today

Lee Feigenbaum: will not review the CSV/TSV document today

15:07:20 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-10

PROPOSED: Approve last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-10

15:07:29 <pgearon> LeeF: going to discuss test suite coverage, and make sure there are ACTIONs in place for people to fill in the holes

Lee Feigenbaum: going to discuss test suite coverage, and make sure there are ACTIONs in place for people to fill in the holes

15:08:19 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-10

RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-10

15:08:39 <LeeF> Next meeting is 1/24/2012 at same time and place

Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting is 1/24/2012 at same time and place

15:08:45 <Olivier> regrets

Olivier Corby: regrets

15:09:11 <LeeF> topic: Graph Store Protocol & Service Description

1. Graph Store Protocol & Service Description

15:09:17 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0030.html

Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0030.html

15:09:22 <LeeF> Looking at point #4

Lee Feigenbaum: Looking at point #4

15:11:16 <pgearon> kasei: concern that graph store protocol references service description, but SD does not reference the graph store protocol

Gregory Williams: concern that graph store protocol references service description, but SD does not reference the graph store protocol

15:13:01 <pgearon> sandro: don't see a problem with graph store protocol referring to SD, with the SD not knowing anything about it

Sandro Hawke: don't see a problem with graph store protocol referring to SD, with the SD not knowing anything about it

15:14:57 <pgearon> LeeF: agree that it's OK to say, "this is the vocabulary to use wrt the service description", but in this case section 5.8 of the graph store protocol seems to be talking about getting a different way of getting an SD document that isn't the same as what the SD says - not entirely sure though

Lee Feigenbaum: agree that it's OK to say, "this is the vocabulary to use wrt the service description", but in this case section 5.8 of the graph store protocol seems to be talking about getting a different way of getting an SD document that isn't the same as what the SD says - not entirely sure though

15:16:07 <pgearon> LeeF: is the graph store service IRI same or different to graph store IRI?

Lee Feigenbaum: is the graph store service IRI same or different to graph store IRI?

15:16:21 <pgearon> Sandro: different. May or may not be the same as the endpoint IRI

Sandro Hawke: different. May or may not be the same as the endpoint IRI

15:17:16 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:17:53 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:18:02 <pgearon> LeeF: 5.8 in the graph store protocol is saying that the service IRI and store IRIs are the same, which I don't agree with

Lee Feigenbaum: 5.8 in the graph store protocol is saying that the service IRI and store IRIs are the same, which I don't agree with

15:18:31 <pgearon> kasei: concerned that graph store protocol casually dropping OPTIONS as a way to get the SD

Gregory Williams: concerned that graph store protocol casually dropping OPTIONS as a way to get the SD

15:19:02 <pgearon> kasei: SD language sprinkled around the graph store protocol

Gregory Williams: SD language sprinkled around the graph store protocol

15:20:51 <pgearon> LeeF and kasei in agreement on graph store protocol document saying that both IRIs are being treated as the same

LeeF and kasei in agreement on graph store protocol document saying that both IRIs are being treated as the same

15:21:26 <pgearon> LeeF: need to improve the text to show that service IRI and protocol IRI are not necessarily the same, though they may be

Lee Feigenbaum: need to improve the text to show that service IRI and protocol IRI are not necessarily the same, though they may be

15:22:03 <pgearon> sandro: if they're not the same, then if you do a GET on the graph store service IRI then should say what you'd get

Sandro Hawke: if they're not the same, then if you do a GET on the graph store service IRI then should say what you'd get

15:24:26 <pgearon> kasei: all the discussion is on 5.8 which says "informative" and then uses normative language, so we know that Chimezie will update this

Gregory Williams: all the discussion is on 5.8 which says "informative" and then uses normative language, so we know that Chimezie will update this

15:25:41 <LeeF> Consensuses (consensi) of this discussion:

Lee Feigenbaum: Consensuses (consensi) of this discussion:

15:26:05 <LeeF> * GSP Service IRI is not necessarily the same as the SPARQL Protocol Endpoint IRI

Lee Feigenbaum: * GSP Service IRI is not necessarily the same as the SPARQL Protocol Endpoint IRI

15:26:17 <LeeF> * RFC2119 language needs to be removed from 5.8

Lee Feigenbaum: * RFC2119 language needs to be removed from 5.8

15:26:25 <LeeF> * Language needs to be clearer on this distinction

Lee Feigenbaum: * Language needs to be clearer on this distinction

15:26:58 <LeeF> Open questions:

Lee Feigenbaum: Open questions:

15:27:33 <LeeF> * What happens if the IRIs for GSP Service and the Protocol Endpoint are not the same and you do a GET on the GSP Service IRI? particularly if the deployment doesn't involve a SPARQL endpoint at all?

Lee Feigenbaum: * What happens if the IRIs for GSP Service and the Protocol Endpoint are not the same and you do a GET on the GSP Service IRI? particularly if the deployment doesn't involve a SPARQL endpoint at all?

15:27:49 <LeeF> * Should we remove the recommendation to use OPTIONS for this and just go with GET?

Lee Feigenbaum: * Should we remove the recommendation to use OPTIONS for this and just go with GET?

15:28:36 <pgearon> LeeF: won't be able to conclude without chimezie, but hopefully can clear up all the issues for him to work with

Lee Feigenbaum: won't be able to conclude without chimezie, but hopefully can clear up all the issues for him to work with

15:29:01 <LeeF> Also the example in 5.5 implies the same thing that 5.8 implies about the IRIs, and needs to be made clearer

Lee Feigenbaum: Also the example in 5.5 implies the same thing that 5.8 implies about the IRIs, and needs to be made clearer

15:30:45 <LeeF> topic: Test Suites

2. Test Suites

15:30:53 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage

15:32:35 <pgearon> LeeF: need tests for errors when evaluating aggregates

Lee Feigenbaum: need tests for errors when evaluating aggregates

15:33:36 <pgearon> LeeF: and positive EXISTS tests

Lee Feigenbaum: and positive EXISTS tests

15:33:43 <LeeF> ACTION-531?

Lee Feigenbaum: ACTION-531?

15:33:43 <trackbot> ACTION-531 -- Olivier Corby to check Query test cases coverage in terms of errors in aggregate evaluation and positiveEXISTS tests -- due 2011-09-27 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-531 -- Olivier Corby to check Query test cases coverage in terms of errors in aggregate evaluation and positiveEXISTS tests -- due 2011-09-27 -- OPEN

15:33:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/531

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/531

15:33:57 <kasei> I can do it.

Gregory Williams: I can do it.

15:34:06 <kasei> the EXISTS tests

Gregory Williams: the EXISTS tests

15:34:09 <kasei> oh. ok :)

Gregory Williams: oh. ok :)

15:34:17 <LeeF> close ACTION-531

Lee Feigenbaum: close ACTION-531

15:34:18 <trackbot> ACTION-531 Check Query test cases coverage in terms of errors in aggregate evaluation and positiveEXISTS tests closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-531 Check Query test cases coverage in terms of errors in aggregate evaluation and positiveEXISTS tests closed

15:34:26 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to propose tests for aggregate evaluation errors

ACTION: Greg to propose tests for aggregate evaluation errors

15:34:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-573 - Propose tests for aggregate evaluation errors [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-01-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-573 - Propose tests for aggregate evaluation errors [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-01-24].

15:34:35 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to propose tests for positive use of EXISTS

ACTION: Greg to propose tests for positive use of EXISTS

15:34:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-574 - Propose tests for positive use of EXISTS [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-01-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-574 - Propose tests for positive use of EXISTS [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-01-24].

15:35:30 <pgearon> LeeF: Update tests - not covered: shortcuts (add/move/copy), load, create

Lee Feigenbaum: Update tests - not covered: shortcuts (add/move/copy), load, create

15:36:20 <LeeF> close ACTION-517

Lee Feigenbaum: close ACTION-517

15:36:20 <trackbot> ACTION-517 Look into negative evaluation tests and "silent success test" possibility for update tests. closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-517 Look into negative evaluation tests and "silent success test" possibility for update tests. closed

15:38:12 <pgearon> LeeF: need someone to look at update tests

Lee Feigenbaum: need someone to look at update tests

15:38:29 <pgearon> MattPerry: can do some of them, but not all. ADD, MOVE, COPY

Matthew Perry: can do some of them, but not all. ADD, MOVE, COPY

15:38:36 <LeeF> ACTION: Matt to propose tests for ADD, MOVE, and COPY

ACTION: Matt to propose tests for ADD, MOVE, and COPY

15:38:36 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Matt

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - Matt

15:38:40 <LeeF> ACTION: Matthew to propose tests for ADD, MOVE, and COPY

ACTION: Matthew to propose tests for ADD, MOVE, and COPY

15:38:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-575 - Propose tests for ADD, MOVE, and COPY [on Matthew Perry - due 2012-01-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-575 - Propose tests for ADD, MOVE, and COPY [on Matthew Perry - due 2012-01-24].

15:38:56 <kasei> I'm not sure how we could test CREATE in a portable way.

Gregory Williams: I'm not sure how we could test CREATE in a portable way.

15:39:07 <LeeF> ACTION: Paul to propose tests for LOAD and - if possible - CREATE

ACTION: Paul to propose tests for LOAD and - if possible - CREATE

15:39:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-576 - Propose tests for LOAD and - if possible - CREATE [on Paul Gearon - due 2012-01-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-576 - Propose tests for LOAD and - if possible - CREATE [on Paul Gearon - due 2012-01-24].

15:39:52 <kasei> CREATE already is tested in syntax tests.

Gregory Williams: CREATE already is tested in syntax tests.

15:40:15 <LeeF> ACTION: Axel to propose a negative syntax test for turtle bnodes in DELETE DATA

ACTION: Axel to propose a negative syntax test for turtle bnodes in DELETE DATA

15:40:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-577 - Propose a negative syntax test for turtle bnodes in DELETE DATA [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-01-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-577 - Propose a negative syntax test for turtle bnodes in DELETE DATA [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-01-24].

15:40:22 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:40:37 <pgearon> Sandro: could test CREATE by seeing if it shows up in the Service Description

Sandro Hawke: could test CREATE by seeing if it shows up in the Service Description

15:40:39 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:40:58 <Zakim> -sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro

15:40:59 <pgearon> kasei: graphs do not have to show up in the SD (optional)

Gregory Williams: graphs do not have to show up in the SD (optional)

15:42:02 <pgearon> LeeF: see if we can use the tests from the last WG to test protocol

Lee Feigenbaum: see if we can use the tests from the last WG to test protocol

15:42:15 <pgearon> LeeF: protocol testing will at least stick with action 495

Lee Feigenbaum: protocol testing will at least stick with ACTION-495

15:42:42 <pgearon> kasei: testing conformance trivial, but can't think how this will fit into current test framework

Gregory Williams: testing conformance trivial, but can't think how this will fit into current test framework

15:43:19 <pgearon> kasei: thinking of starting with an endpoint URL and get back a response of "yes/no: it conforms / it doesn't conform"

Gregory Williams: thinking of starting with an endpoint URL and get back a response of "yes/no: it conforms / it doesn't conform"

15:43:46 <pgearon> LeeF: wanted something like that for "protocol", but didn't have bandwidth

Lee Feigenbaum: wanted something like that for "protocol", but didn't have bandwidth

15:44:35 <pgearon> LeeF: if something like that is constructed then should be usable for both SD testing and protocol testing

Lee Feigenbaum: if something like that is constructed then should be usable for both SD testing and protocol testing

15:45:03 <pgearon> LeeF: even if used for just the life of this WG then that will probably the best way to proceed

Lee Feigenbaum: even if used for just the life of this WG then that will probably the best way to proceed

15:45:10 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to talk with Lee about putting a test system in place to test endpoints for protocol and service description conformance

ACTION: Greg to talk with Lee about putting a test system in place to test endpoints for protocol and service description conformance

15:45:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-578 - Talk with Lee about putting a test system in place to test endpoints for protocol and service description conformance [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-01-24].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-578 - Talk with Lee about putting a test system in place to test endpoints for protocol and service description conformance [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-01-24].

15:45:26 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me

15:45:26 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted

15:45:41 <pgearon> LeeF: entailment tests. have a whole bunch, but also some missing ones

Lee Feigenbaum: entailment tests. have a whole bunch, but also some missing ones

15:45:53 <pgearon> bglimm: thinks still has open action to add test cases

Birte Glimm: thinks still has open action to add test cases

15:45:59 <LeeF> close ACTION-547

Lee Feigenbaum: close ACTION-547

15:45:59 <trackbot> ACTION-547 Review query 2nd LC as soon as it's ready closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-547 Review query 2nd LC as soon as it's ready closed

15:46:10 <LeeF> ACTION-518?

Lee Feigenbaum: ACTION-518?

15:46:10 <trackbot> ACTION-518 -- Birte Glimm to add missing test cases to improve http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#Entailment -- due 2011-08-16 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-518 -- Birte Glimm to add missing test cases to improve http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#Entailment -- due 2011-08-16 -- OPEN

15:46:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/518

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/518

15:46:30 <pgearon> bglimm: need to find the time for these tests

Birte Glimm: need to find the time for these tests

15:46:35 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

15:46:35 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

15:46:53 <pgearon> LeeF: federated query. Some things not covered, but doesn't overly concern me

Lee Feigenbaum: federated query. Some things not covered, but doesn't overly concern me

15:47:58 <pgearon> LeeF: some tests on JSON. Need someone to check if we're missing coverage

Lee Feigenbaum: some tests on JSON. Need someone to check if we're missing coverage

15:48:39 <pgearon> LeeF: don't think that protocol and XML format were separated in tests in SPARQL 1

Lee Feigenbaum: don't think that protocol and XML format were separated in tests in SPARQL 1

15:49:19 <pgearon> LeeF: letting TSV/CSV ride until AndyS is available

Lee Feigenbaum: letting TSV/CSV ride until AndyS is available

15:49:45 <pgearon> LeeF: any other topics?

Lee Feigenbaum: any other topics?



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#1) generated 2012-01-17 16:30:32 UTC by 'pgearon', comments: 'Fixed reference to Risk, as this is not a CommonScribe option'