SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 13 December 2011

Seen
Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Carlos Buil Aranda, Chimezie Ogbuji, Gregory Williams, Lee Feigenbaum, Matthew Perry, Olivier Corby, Paul Gearon, Sandro Hawke, Steve Harris
Regrets
Axel Polleres, Chimezie Ogbuji, Birte Glimm
Chair
Lee Feigenbaum
Scribe
Olivier Corby
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Accept last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-12-06 link
Topics
14:59:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/13-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/13-sparql-irc

14:59:54 <LeeF> RRSAgent, make logs world

Lee Feigenbaum: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:59:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:59:58 <LeeF> zakim, this is SPARQL

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this is SPARQL

15:00:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

15:00:01 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

15:00:03 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:00:04 <LeeF> zakim, this is SPARQL

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this is SPARQL

15:00:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now

15:00:05 <trackbot> Date: 13 December 2011
15:00:07 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

15:00:09 <kasei> Zakim, who is talking?

Gregory Williams: Zakim, who is talking?

15:00:16 <cbuilara> zakim, who is on the phone

Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, who is on the phone

15:00:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', cbuilara

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the phone', cbuilara

15:00:19 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone

15:00:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AndyS

15:00:21 <trackbot> Sorry, LeeF, I don't understand 'trackbot, get with the program'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, LeeF, I don't understand 'trackbot, get with the program'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

15:00:21 <Zakim> kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P10 (25%)

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P10 (25%)

15:00:23 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:00:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.310.729.aaaa, [IPcaller], MattPerry, ??P10

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +1.310.729.aaaa, [IPcaller], MattPerry, ??P10

15:00:36 <kasei> Zakim, aaaa is me

Gregory Williams: Zakim, aaaa is me

15:00:37 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me

15:00:45 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P10 is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, ??P10 is me

15:00:46 <Zakim> +kasei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it

15:00:47 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:00:51 <AndyS> zakim, go faster

Andy Seaborne: zakim, go faster

15:00:53 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

15:00:55 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it

15:01:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'go faster', AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'go faster', AndyS

15:01:32 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

15:01:33 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

15:01:37 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

15:01:43 <swh> hm, one of those is me...

Steve Harris: hm, one of those is me...

15:01:52 <Zakim> +sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro

15:02:10 <swh> Zakim, ??P17 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P17 is me

15:02:11 <Zakim> +swh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +swh; got it

15:02:31 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone?

15:02:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, AndyS, MattPerry, cbuilara, LeeF, pgearon, ??P14, swh, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, AndyS, MattPerry, cbuilara, LeeF, pgearon, ??P14, swh, sandro

15:03:03 <LeeF> zakim, ??P14 is Olivier_

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, ??P14 is Olivier_

15:03:03 <Zakim> +Olivier_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Olivier_; got it

15:03:29 <LeeF> Regrets: AxelPolleres, chimezie, bglimm
15:04:38 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
15:04:43 <LeeF> zakim, pick a scribe, please

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, pick a scribe, please

15:04:43 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Olivier_

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Olivier_

15:04:54 <LeeF> scribenick: Olivier_

(Scribe set to Olivier Corby)

15:05:20 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-12-06

PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-12-06

15:06:14 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-12-06

RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-12-06

15:06:29 <LeeF> next week's meeting is 12/20 at 10:00am EST

Lee Feigenbaum: next week's meeting is 12/20 at 10:00am EST

15:06:46 <swh> I'm at risk for next week

Steve Harris: I'm at risk for next week

15:06:49 <pgearon> +q

Paul Gearon: +q

15:06:57 <LeeF> ack ??P17

Lee Feigenbaum: ack ??P17

15:06:59 <LeeF> ack pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon

15:07:15 <LeeF> pgearon: at risk next week

Paul Gearon: at risk next week [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:07:52 <LeeF> LeeF: next week we will be voting on most documents publication, let me know if you won't be here

Lee Feigenbaum: next week we will be voting on most documents publication, let me know if you won't be here [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:08:04 <pgearon> q-

Paul Gearon: q-

15:09:02 <LeeF> www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall

Lee Feigenbaum: www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall

15:09:08 <LeeF> topic: query

1. query

15:10:39 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:10:59 <Olivier_> Some small text changes still needed, minor changes

Some small text changes still needed, minor changes

15:11:27 <bglimm> Sorry for only being on IRC. I just wanted to mention that my part1 has all been addressed and I hope to send part 2 tonight

Birte Glimm: Sorry for only being on IRC. I just wanted to mention that my part1 has all been addressed and I hope to send part 2 tonight

15:11:48 <AndyS> birte, great, thanks

Andy Seaborne: birte, great, thanks

15:11:50 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:11:50 <bglimm> Talking about the Query review in case that wasn't clear

Birte Glimm: Talking about the Query review in case that wasn't clear

15:11:53 <swh> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:12:10 <Olivier_> Reread aggregate section needed ?

Reread aggregate section needed ?

15:12:43 <bglimm> I read the aggregate section again and I am mostly happy (some minor comments)

Birte Glimm: I read the aggregate section again and I am mostly happy (some minor comments)

15:12:48 <LeeF> ack swh

Lee Feigenbaum: ack swh

15:13:20 <Olivier_> Concerns exist about aggregate section

Concerns exist about aggregate section

15:15:25 <Olivier_> Include a note about it

Include a note about it

15:15:53 <AndyS> LeeF: Will buy everyone a beer if there is a serious bug in aggregates

Lee Feigenbaum: Will buy everyone a beer if there is a serious bug in aggregates [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

15:16:06 <Olivier_> We may publish it as LC next week

We may publish it as LC next week

15:16:19 <sandro> sandro: It might be good to include a note like, "This algebra has not yet been thoroughly reviewed.  If you think you found a mistake, please send in a comment."

Sandro Hawke: It might be good to include a note like, "This algebra has not yet been thoroughly reviewed. If you think you found a mistake, please send in a comment." [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:16:21 <LeeF> LeeF: birte to get in her review tonight, andy and steve to address points, group to decide on query LC2 next week

Lee Feigenbaum: birte to get in her review tonight, andy and steve to address points, group to decide on query LC2 next week [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:16:43 <LeeF> topic: Entailment

2. Entailment

15:17:17 <bglimm> Markus review is addressed and I am awaiting Axel's

Birte Glimm: Markus review is addressed and I am awaiting Axel's

15:17:32 <LeeF> bglimm, Axel's review was sent 2 days ago

Lee Feigenbaum: bglimm, Axel's review was sent 2 days ago

15:17:40 <LeeF> have you had a chance to look at it yet?

Lee Feigenbaum: have you had a chance to look at it yet?

15:17:46 <bglimm> Ups, then I overlooked it. Will check again

Birte Glimm: Ups, then I overlooked it. Will check again

15:17:54 <bglimm> No, I didn't see it

Birte Glimm: No, I didn't see it

15:18:00 <LeeF> Here's the link: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0338.html

Lee Feigenbaum: Here's the link: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0338.html

15:18:18 <LeeF> If you could take a quick look  and let us know if it looks manageable to resolve these comments this week, that would be great

Lee Feigenbaum: If you could take a quick look and let us know if it looks manageable to resolve these comments this week, that would be great

15:18:24 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

15:18:30 <bglimm> I only saw a question about synchronising the wording between Query and Ent. Reg. regarding the conditions (E-consitency etc)

Birte Glimm: I only saw a question about synchronising the wording between Query and Ent. Reg. regarding the conditions (E-consitency etc)

15:18:49 <LeeF> topic: Update

3. Update

15:18:51 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

15:18:57 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P1 is me

15:18:57 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:19:46 <Zakim> -MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry

15:20:01 <LeeF> pgearon: working through the 2nd half of Matt's review

Paul Gearon: working through the 2nd half of Matt's review [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:20:04 <Olivier_> Some minor changes still needed

Some minor changes still needed

15:20:06 <LeeF> LeeF: please check if there is anything non-editorial

Lee Feigenbaum: please check if there is anything non-editorial [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:20:07 <bglimm> Seems all managable

Birte Glimm: Seems all managable

15:20:09 <Zakim> +MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry

15:20:28 <bglimm> I'll have Ent. Reg. ready next week then

Birte Glimm: I'll have Ent. Reg. ready next week then

15:20:34 <LeeF> MattPerry: mainly editorial - one thing was a clarification of words of SHOULD/MUST

Matthew Perry: mainly editorial - one thing was a clarification of words of SHOULD/MUST [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:20:48 <pgearon> just finished looking, and it's all fine

Paul Gearon: just finished looking, and it's all fine

15:21:14 <LeeF> LeeF: pgearon to finish matt's review shortly and matt to review the changes to see if OK to publish

Lee Feigenbaum: pgearon to finish matt's review shortly and matt to review the changes to see if OK to publish [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:21:34 <LeeF> topic: service description

4. service description

15:22:08 <LeeF> LeeF: chimezie sent his review last week, what's outstanding?

Lee Feigenbaum: chimezie sent his review last week, what's outstanding? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:22:15 <LeeF> kasei: remaining issue is wording on property feature

Gregory Williams: remaining issue is wording on property feature [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:23:12 <Olivier_> Some open issues

Some open issues

15:23:20 <Olivier_> not substantive

not substantive

15:25:28 <LeeF> LeeF: for property features, suggest changing to "Relates an instance of sd:Service to a resource representing an implemented feature that extends the SPARQL Query or Update language and that is accessed by using the named property."

Lee Feigenbaum: for property features, suggest changing to "Relates an instance of sd:Service to a resource representing an implemented feature that extends the SPARQL Query or Update language and that is accessed by using the named property." [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:27:05 <Olivier_> It may be published next week

It may be published next week

15:27:33 <Olivier_> topic: graph protocol

5. graph protocol

15:27:33 <LeeF> topic: graph store protocol

6. graph store protocol

15:27:41 <LeeF> LeeF: sandro, do you have anything to add beyond what's in email?

Lee Feigenbaum: sandro, do you have anything to add beyond what's in email? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:27:50 <LeeF> sandro: not much; probably OK with most things but concerned with POST being append

Sandro Hawke: not much; probably OK with most things but concerned with POST being append [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:28:19 <LeeF> sandro: the question here is what should happen if you POST to a graph resource

Sandro Hawke: the question here is what should happen if you POST to a graph resource [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:28:28 <LeeF> ... in general in REST, that's up in the air - you send a message to the thing and what happens depends on the thing

Lee Feigenbaum: ... in general in REST, that's up in the air - you send a message to the thing and what happens depends on the thing

15:28:47 <LeeF> ... if the thing is a piece of a SPARQL database, saying that a reasonable thing to do is append to the graph seems ok

Lee Feigenbaum: ... if the thing is a piece of a SPARQL database, saying that a reasonable thing to do is append to the graph seems ok

15:29:06 <LeeF> ... at linked enterprise workshop, people are using RDF and REST with other applications / data models

Lee Feigenbaum: ... at linked enterprise workshop, people are using RDF and REST with other applications / data models

15:29:13 <LeeF> ... there are a lot of other things that you might want to do

Lee Feigenbaum: ... there are a lot of other things that you might want to do

15:29:27 <LeeF> ... so i'd like to keep POST open - give the ability to POST a message to something asking it to do something

Lee Feigenbaum: ... so i'd like to keep POST open - give the ability to POST a message to something asking it to do something

15:29:32 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:29:33 <LeeF> ... can always append with PATCH

Lee Feigenbaum: ... can always append with PATCH

15:29:41 <LeeF> ... suggest we back off on this specification

Lee Feigenbaum: ... suggest we back off on this specification

15:29:51 <LeeF> ... recognize problems with PATCH - it's new, not implemented by IE9 (from JavaScript)

Lee Feigenbaum: ... recognize problems with PATCH - it's new, not implemented by IE9 (from JavaScript)

15:29:57 <LeeF> ack kasei

Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei

15:30:30 <LeeF> kasei: worried about making this change because we explicitly went through this and made PATCH informative because we were worried about the newness/widespread support with PATCH, and thought we had consensus on POST as append

Gregory Williams: worried about making this change because we explicitly went through this and made PATCH informative because we were worried about the newness/widespread support with PATCH, and thought we had consensus on POST as append [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:30:53 <LeeF> sandro: i supporeted that, but 2 new bits of information

Sandro Hawke: i supporeted that, but 2 new bits of information [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:31:04 <LeeF> ... 1) people using this with things other than RDF store

Lee Feigenbaum: ... 1) people using this with things other than RDF store

15:31:09 <LeeF> ... 2) people at workshop happy with using PATCH

Lee Feigenbaum: ... 2) people at workshop happy with using PATCH

15:33:13 <LeeF> LeeF: steve, do you implement POST to a graph?

Lee Feigenbaum: steve, do you implement POST to a graph? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:33:16 <LeeF> swh: yes, it's append for us

Steve Harris: yes, it's append for us [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:33:32 <LeeF> LeeF: sandro, the IBM implementation handles POST to a collection, not a graph, right?

Lee Feigenbaum: sandro, the IBM implementation handles POST to a collection, not a graph, right? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:33:50 <LeeF> sandro: yes, i'm thinking about the implications of that general idea extended to POSTing to graph

Sandro Hawke: yes, i'm thinking about the implications of that general idea extended to POSTing to graph [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:33:58 <LeeF> sandro: steve, would you have problems changing to using PATCH for append?

Sandro Hawke: steve, would you have problems changing to using PATCH for append? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:34:00 <kasei> PATCH seems pretty underspecified in the document right now. I assume this would require a big change to the document from its current state...?

Gregory Williams: PATCH seems pretty underspecified in the document right now. I assume this would require a big change to the document from its current state...?

15:34:14 <LeeF> swh: not enthusiastic about it given lack of support in HTTP libraries and need to change existing code

Steve Harris: not enthusiastic about it given lack of support in HTTP libraries and need to change existing code [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:35:50 <LeeF> AndyS: I believe that PATCH is the open-ended one, lets you send any sort of change to a resource, not just append

Andy Seaborne: I believe that PATCH is the open-ended one, lets you send any sort of change to a resource, not just append [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:37:31 <LeeF> sandro: will think about this & see if there is a more compelling argument by next week

Sandro Hawke: will think about this & see if there is a more compelling argument by next week [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:38:06 <LeeF> sandro: ...a collection is also a graph

Sandro Hawke: ...a collection is also a graph [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:38:20 <LeeF> sandro: ...so POST to that particular graph means something different

Sandro Hawke: ...so POST to that particular graph means something different [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:38:28 <LeeF> AndyS: Where is that specified?

Andy Seaborne: Where is that specified? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:46:11 <sandro> sandro: I think this protocol does or should apply to RDF+REST everywhere -- not just being SPARQL.    And collections should be a kind of graph.

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Sandro Hawke: I think this protocol does or should apply to RDF+REST everywhere -- not just being SPARQL. And collections should be a kind of graph. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:47:18 <sandro> sandro: so POST to collecition (a kind of graph) is different from POST to other graphs?

Sandro Hawke: so POST to collecition (a kind of graph) is different from POST to other graphs? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:49:53 <sandro> "Protocol enhancements for update. The group will also define protocol to update RDF graphs using ReSTful methods. "

Sandro Hawke: "Protocol enhancements for update. The group will also define protocol to update RDF graphs using ReSTful methods. "

15:50:21 <sandro> from http://www.w3.org/2011/05/sparql-charter

Sandro Hawke: from http://www.w3.org/2011/05/sparql-charter

15:50:32 <AndyS> AndyS: I see no evidence presented that a collection IS a graph.  It may have a partial representation as a graph (c.f. RDFa)

Andy Seaborne: I see no evidence presented that a collection IS a graph. It may have a partial representation as a graph (c.f. RDFa) [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ]

15:50:36 <LeeF> LeeF: Suggestion is to ask Sandro to produce a proposed change and decide on it next week; also happy to facilitate an out-of-band discussion between now and then for interested parties

Lee Feigenbaum: Suggestion is to ask Sandro to produce a proposed change and decide on it next week; also happy to facilitate an out-of-band discussion between now and then for interested parties [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:50:40 <sandro> sandro: If that's what we're doing here, I think we need to keep in mind the bigger picture, beyond just SPARQL.

Sandro Hawke: If that's what we're doing here, I think we need to keep in mind the bigger picture, beyond just SPARQL. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:51:19 <sandro> LeeF: Anyone on the call interested in joining a call on this?

Lee Feigenbaum: Anyone on the call interested in joining a call on this? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:51:34 <sandro> Lee: Sandro, Andy, Lee, Steve... anyone else?

Lee Feigenbaum: Sandro, Andy, Lee, Steve... anyone else? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:52:27 <sandro> kasei: I'm with Andy in being kind of horrified that the SD is returned on a GET from the GraphStore

Gregory Williams: I'm with Andy in being kind of horrified that the SD is returned on a GET from the GraphStore [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:53:09 <sandro> kasei: I don't know how we got to there

Gregory Williams: I don't know how we got to there [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:53:23 <AndyS> There is an example of GET on the graph store URI in the POST section.

Andy Seaborne: There is an example of GET on the graph store URI in the POST section.

15:54:56 <sandro> kasei: The text seems to say you should return the SD *even if* the GraphStore doesn't implement SPARQL.

Gregory Williams: The text seems to say you should return the SD *even if* the GraphStore doesn't implement SPARQL. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:55:54 <LeeF> LeeF: need to discuss 5.8 of GSP -- Lee, Andy, kasei are surprised and worried about what's there

Lee Feigenbaum: need to discuss 5.8 of GSP -- Lee, Andy, kasei are surprised and worried about what's there [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:57:11 <kasei> the graph store protocol document also seems to suggest that SD be returned from an OPTIONS requests, which also might deserve its own discussion.

Gregory Williams: the graph store protocol document also seems to suggest that SD be returned from an OPTIONS requests, which also might deserve its own discussion.

15:57:16 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to try to organize a conversation on POSTing to a graph this week

ACTION: Lee to try to organize a conversation on POSTing to a graph this week

15:57:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-571 - Try to organize a conversation on POSTing to a graph this week [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-12-20].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-571 - Try to organize a conversation on POSTing to a graph this week [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-12-20].

15:57:59 <LeeF> topic: Protocol

7. Protocol

15:58:06 <LeeF> LeeF: remaining issues are editorial, specifically cleaning up references

Lee Feigenbaum: remaining issues are editorial, specifically cleaning up references [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:59:32 <Zakim> -LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF

15:59:33 <Zakim> -sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro

15:59:34 <Zakim> -swh

Zakim IRC Bot: -swh

15:59:35 <Zakim> -MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry

15:59:38 <Zakim> -pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon

15:59:39 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

15:59:40 <Zakim> -kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei

15:59:41 <Zakim> -Olivier_

Zakim IRC Bot: -Olivier_

15:59:42 <LeeF> LeeF: decide on most documents next week - please let me know if you won't be here

Lee Feigenbaum: decide on most documents next week - please let me know if you won't be here [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:59:42 <Zakim> -cbuilara

Zakim IRC Bot: -cbuilara

15:59:43 <LeeF> Adjourned.

Lee Feigenbaum: Adjourned.

15:59:44 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

15:59:46 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.310.729.aaaa, MattPerry, kasei, AndyS, LeeF, cbuilara, pgearon, sandro, swh, Olivier_

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.310.729.aaaa, MattPerry, kasei, AndyS, LeeF, cbuilara, pgearon, sandro, swh, Olivier_

16:21:29 <AndyS> LeeF - transport endpoint -- you mean http://services.data.gov.uk/transport/sparql ?

(No events recorded for 21 minutes)

Andy Seaborne: LeeF - transport endpoint -- you mean http://services.data.gov.uk/transport/sparql ?

16:23:56 <LeeF> AndyS, maybe, checking :-)

Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, maybe, checking :-)

16:24:07 <LeeF> no, but let me try that one

Lee Feigenbaum: no, but let me try that one

16:24:36 <AndyS> IIRC There are 2+ hosted copies.  Which one did you use?

Andy Seaborne: IIRC There are 2+ hosted copies. Which one did you use?

16:24:46 <LeeF> AndyS, i meant choosing "transportation" from the drop-down at http://data.gov.uk/sparql

Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, i meant choosing "transportation" from the drop-down at http://data.gov.uk/sparql

16:25:30 <LeeF> the one you gave me gives a similarly empty response to my apparently broken / bit rotten query :-)

Lee Feigenbaum: the one you gave me gives a similarly empty response to my apparently broken / bit rotten query :-)

16:25:40 <LeeF> basically, i have a query in my tutorial that used to work, and now doesn't return any results

Lee Feigenbaum: basically, i have a query in my tutorial that used to work, and now doesn't return any results

16:25:49 <LeeF> and was trying to short-circuit the process of debugging it by asking those in the know :)

Lee Feigenbaum: and was trying to short-circuit the process of debugging it by asking those in the know :)

16:26:27 <AndyS> They are the same actually.

Andy Seaborne: They are the same actually.

16:26:53 <LeeF> ah ok

Lee Feigenbaum: ah ok

16:27:09 <LeeF> this query used to work but now returns no results:

Lee Feigenbaum: this query used to work but now returns no results:

16:27:10 <LeeF> PREFIX skos: <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#>

Lee Feigenbaum: PREFIX skos: <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#>

16:27:10 <LeeF> PREFIX roads: <http://transport.data.gov.uk/0/ontology/roads#>

Lee Feigenbaum: PREFIX roads: <http://transport.data.gov.uk/0/ontology/roads#>

16:27:10 <LeeF> SELECT ?cat_name (COUNT(DISTINCT ?thing) AS ?roads)

Lee Feigenbaum: SELECT ?cat_name (COUNT(DISTINCT ?thing) AS ?roads)

16:27:10 <LeeF> WHERE {

Lee Feigenbaum: WHERE {

16:27:10 <LeeF>    ?thing  a roads:Road ; roads:category ?cat .

Lee Feigenbaum: ?thing a roads:Road ; roads:category ?cat .

16:27:11 <LeeF>    ?cat skos:prefLabel ?cat_name

Lee Feigenbaum: ?cat skos:prefLabel ?cat_name

16:27:14 <LeeF> }

Lee Feigenbaum: }

16:27:15 <LeeF> GROUP BY ?cat_name

Lee Feigenbaum: GROUP BY ?cat_name

16:27:18 <LeeF> and not sure what in particular changed...

Lee Feigenbaum: and not sure what in particular changed...

16:30:17 <AndyS> I see no roads:Road

Andy Seaborne: I see no roads:Road

16:30:56 <LeeF> right... so question is whether there is something that replaced it, or moved, or what

Lee Feigenbaum: right... so question is whether there is something that replaced it, or moved, or what

16:31:09 <LeeF> i tried to do a general query for the rdf:types in the dataset, but it timed out for me

Lee Feigenbaum: i tried to do a general query for the rdf:types in the dataset, but it timed out for me

16:32:05 <AndyS> The endpoint is run by Talis - you can ask on IRC freenode #talis (or maybe #kasabi)  The time out is the platofmr's 30s time out but try LIMIT / OFFSET for slicing which might help.

Andy Seaborne: The endpoint is run by Talis - you can ask on IRC freenode #talis (or maybe #kasabi) The time out is the platofmr's 30s time out but try LIMIT / OFFSET for slicing which might help.

16:35:18 <AndyS> Their should be a dump somewhere close.  I can't the ontology either to check URIs.  Bad LD.

Andy Seaborne: Their should be a dump somewhere close. I can't the ontology either to check URIs. Bad LD.

16:35:33 <LeeF> thanks very much, Andy!

Lee Feigenbaum: thanks very much, Andy!

16:35:46 <AndyS> SELECT * { ?s <http://jena.hpl.hp.com/ARQ/property:version> ?y } works :-)

Andy Seaborne: SELECT * { ?s <http://jena.hpl.hp.com/ARQ/property:version> ?y } works :-)

16:36:31 <AndyS> Some SPARQL 1.1 features are turned off IIRC (to stop accidental DOS-isms).

Andy Seaborne: Some SPARQL 1.1 features are turned off IIRC (to stop accidental DOS-isms).

16:36:53 <AndyS> Did the query once work?

Andy Seaborne: Did the query once work?

16:41:09 <AndyS> Ah - see it did.

Andy Seaborne: Ah - see it did.

16:41:29 <AndyS> I'm not in the know but I know who to ask ...

Andy Seaborne: I'm not in the know but I know who to ask ...

16:43:11 <AndyS> I do know what code it being run .. but the data?  A bit above my level of the stack.

Andy Seaborne: I do know what code it being run .. but the data? A bit above my level of the stack.

16:43:43 <LeeF> :-)

Lee Feigenbaum: :-)

16:43:53 <LeeF> would you be able to point me to who to ask about the data?

Lee Feigenbaum: would you be able to point me to who to ask about the data?

16:47:13 <AndyS> beobal (Sam Tunnicliffe - head of platform team at Talis) - we're on freenode #jena talking about it

Andy Seaborne: beobal (Sam Tunnicliffe - head of platform team at Talis) - we're on freenode #jena talking about it

16:51:34 <LeeF> having trouble connecting to freenode for some reason

Lee Feigenbaum: having trouble connecting to freenode for some reason

16:52:09 <AndyS> That's freenode.  It's free and

Andy Seaborne: That's freenode. It's free and

17:56:05 <bglimm>  SteveH, are you still on IRC?

(No events recorded for 63 minutes)

Birte Glimm: SteveH, are you still on IRC?

17:56:36 <SteveH> hi bglimm, yeah

Steve Harris: hi bglimm, yeah

17:56:47 <bglimm> What did Olivier mean with

Birte Glimm: What did Olivier mean with

17:56:47 <bglimm> Olivier_: Concerns exist about aggregate section

Olivier Corby: Concerns exist about aggregate section [ Scribe Assist by Birte Glimm ]

17:56:47 <bglimm> [15:15] Olivier_: Include a note about it

Birte Glimm: [15:15] Olivier_: Include a note about it

17:57:18 <bglimm> I more or less finished reading the algebra and don't see major problems

Birte Glimm: I more or less finished reading the algebra and don't see major problems

17:57:25 <bglimm> am I overlooking something?

Birte Glimm: am I overlooking something?

17:57:50 <bglimm> Is that refering to the agg_i issue that also Andy pointed out in his email?

Birte Glimm: Is that refering to the agg_i issue that also Andy pointed out in his email?

17:58:24 <bglimm> E.g., what happens if a user uses ?agg1 in the query?

Birte Glimm: E.g., what happens if a user uses ?agg1 in the query?

18:13:35 <SteveH> bglimm, yes, just that conversation between you and Andy

(No events recorded for 15 minutes)

Steve Harris: bglimm, yes, just that conversation between you and Andy

18:13:42 <bglimm> ok

Birte Glimm: ok

18:13:44 <SteveH> bglimm, nothing new

Steve Harris: bglimm, nothing new

18:14:15 <bglimm> I was worried that there is something new since the scribe wasn't to informative

Birte Glimm: I was worried that there is something new since the scribe wasn't too informative

18:14:24 <bglimm> s/to/too/
18:16:41 <SteveH> yeah, sure

Steve Harris: yeah, sure

20:36:48 <AndyS> LeeF - did you get to the bottom of the cause of the lack of results of your query?

(No events recorded for 140 minutes)

Andy Seaborne: LeeF - did you get to the bottom of the cause of the lack of results of your query?

20:37:42 <LeeF> *just* this sec found time to start looking at it again

Lee Feigenbaum: *just* this sec found time to start looking at it again

20:37:49 <LeeF> basically just looks like totally different data then it used to be

Lee Feigenbaum: basically just looks like totally different data then it used to be

20:55:33 <AndyS> A small difference esp. if it wasn't reloaded.  I did see they are running a customized ARQ

(No events recorded for 17 minutes)

Andy Seaborne: A small difference esp. if it wasn't reloaded. I did see they are running a customized ARQ

20:56:12 <AndyS> ... which looks mildly recent.  But the mod (which is now in the codebase) is only for "order by" according to the logs.

Andy Seaborne: ... which looks mildly recent. But the mod (which is now in the codebase) is only for "order by" according to the logs.



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This revision (#1) generated 2011-12-14 08:51:52 UTC by 'apollere2', comments: None