14:00:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-sparql-irc ←
14:00:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:00:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
14:00:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now ←
14:00:46 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:00:46 <trackbot> Date: 23 August 2011
14:00:48 <LeeF> zakim, this will be sparql
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be sparql ←
14:00:48 <Zakim> ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started ←
14:01:02 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
14:01:04 <kasei> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Gregory Williams: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:01:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P5, kasei, Bert, MattPerry, pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P5, kasei, Bert, MattPerry, pgearon ←
14:01:33 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
14:02:22 <cbuilara> I'm also on the phone
Carlos Buil Aranda: I'm also on the phone ←
14:02:41 <LeeF> zakim, Bert is cbuilara
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, Bert is cbuilara ←
14:02:41 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it ←
14:02:45 <LeeF> zakim, ??P5 is Olivier
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, ??P5 is Olivier ←
14:02:47 <Zakim> +Olivier; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Olivier; got it ←
14:02:56 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:03:00 <LeeF> Scribenick: MattPerry
(Scribe set to Matthew Perry)
14:03:46 <LeeF> Regrets: Birte, Axel, Alex, Andy, Sandro
14:04:17 <LeeF> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0201.html
14:04:35 <LeeF> topic: Admin
14:04:43 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-16
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-16 ←
14:05:11 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-16
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-16 ←
14:06:11 <MattPerry> LeeF: Carlos, can you scribe next week
Lee Feigenbaum: Carlos, can you scribe next week ←
14:06:15 <cbuilara> yes, I can
Carlos Buil Aranda: yes, I can ←
14:06:15 <LeeF> Next meeting is 30-August, scribe Carlos
Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting is 30-August, scribe Carlos ←
14:06:18 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.368.aaaa ←
14:06:33 <kasei> Zakim, who is talking?
Gregory Williams: Zakim, who is talking? ←
14:06:44 <Zakim> kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (90%)
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: LeeF (90%) ←
14:06:52 <LeeF> zakim, aaaa is chimezie
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, aaaa is chimezie ←
14:06:52 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +chimezie; got it ←
14:07:31 <LeeF> regrets next week from: alex, axel, sandro
Lee Feigenbaum: regrets next week from: alex, axel, sandro ←
14:07:34 <MattPerry> LeeF: anyone that can't make it next week?
Lee Feigenbaum: anyone that can't make it next week? ←
14:07:43 <SteveH__> probably
Steve Harris: probably ←
14:07:43 <MattPerry> silence
silence ←
14:07:59 <SteveH__> Zakim, what's the code?
Steve Harris: Zakim, what's the code? ←
14:07:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), SteveH__
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), SteveH__ ←
14:08:07 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
14:08:10 <SteveH__> Zakim, ??P11 is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P11 is me ←
14:08:10 <Zakim> +SteveH__; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH__; got it ←
14:08:40 <LeeF> two things to add: dataset parameters in the protocol, and graph store protocol comments
Lee Feigenbaum: two things to add: dataset parameters in the protocol, and graph store protocol comments ←
14:09:00 <LeeF> topic: BASE & GRAPH & SPARQL 1.1 Update
14:09:14 <MattPerry> LeeF: question from SteveH on the mailing list
Lee Feigenbaum: question from SteveH on the mailing list ←
14:09:14 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0195.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0195.html ←
14:09:28 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
14:10:14 <MattPerry> SteveH: application sending data to triplestore ... wrap insert data URI around turtle, but it didn't work
Steve Harris: application sending data to triplestore ... wrap insert data URI around turtle, but it didn't work ←
14:10:41 <LeeF> ack SteveH
Lee Feigenbaum: ack SteveH ←
14:10:56 <MattPerry> SteveH: expected graph to change base URI, but it didn't
Steve Harris: expected graph to change base URI, but it didn't ←
14:11:45 <MattPerry> LeeF: nothing says graph uri is part of base resolution chain
Lee Feigenbaum: nothing says graph uri is part of base resolution chain ←
14:12:44 <LeeF> 4.1.1.2 Relative IRIs
Lee Feigenbaum: 4.1.1.2 Relative IRIs ←
14:13:06 <MattPerry> LeeF: graph clause does not affect base URI
Lee Feigenbaum: graph clause does not affect base URI ←
14:13:35 <MattPerry> LeeF: should we change this behavior ... what is the cost of the change
Lee Feigenbaum: should we change this behavior ... what is the cost of the change ←
14:13:45 <MattPerry> SteveH: we shouldn't change it in query
Steve Harris: we shouldn't change it in query ←
14:14:25 <MattPerry> SteveH: it is worth explicitly mentioning this behavior in update
Steve Harris: it is worth explicitly mentioning this behavior in update ←
14:15:10 <MattPerry> pgearon: Yes. we could add an editorial note about this.
Paul Gearon: Yes. we could add an editorial note about this. ←
14:15:48 <LeeF> ACTION: Paul to add an editorial note to SPARQL update noting that GRAPH <uri> does not affect the base URI for triples within it for INSERT DATA (c. f. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0195.html)
ACTION: Paul to add an editorial note to SPARQL update noting that GRAPH <uri> does not affect the base URI for triples within it for INSERT DATA (c. f. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0195.html) ←
14:15:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-526 - Add an editorial note to SPARQL update noting that GRAPH <uri> does not affect the base URI for triples within it for INSERT DATA (c. f. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0195.html) [on Paul Gearon - due 2011-08-30].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-526 - Add an editorial note to SPARQL update noting that GRAPH <uri> does not affect the base URI for triples within it for INSERT DATA (c. f. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0195.html) [on Paul Gearon - due 2011-08-30]. ←
14:16:00 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
14:16:08 <LeeF> topic: dataset parameters in protocol
14:16:44 <MattPerry> LeeF: don't want to try to pass a resolution because Andy is not here
Lee Feigenbaum: don't want to try to pass a resolution because Andy is not here ←
14:16:47 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0185.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0185.html ←
14:17:00 <MattPerry> LeeF: any comments on this?
Lee Feigenbaum: any comments on this? ←
14:17:06 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
14:17:10 <LeeF> ack SteveH
Lee Feigenbaum: ack SteveH ←
14:17:16 <kasei> I took a quick look. Looks OK to me, but don't have any real preference.
Gregory Williams: I took a quick look. Looks OK to me, but don't have any real preference. ←
14:17:38 <MattPerry> SteveH: I can see use cases for this proposal and it looks sensible
Steve Harris: I can see use cases for this proposal and it looks sensible ←
14:17:47 <SteveH> …at a first glance
Steve Harris: …at a first glance ←
14:18:19 <MattPerry> LeeF: We can resolve the issue next week when Andy is here
Lee Feigenbaum: We can resolve the issue next week when Andy is here ←
14:18:27 <LeeF> topic: Comments
14:18:50 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments ←
14:19:34 <MattPerry> LeeF: one new editorial comment from Richard that Andy or SteveH can look at
Lee Feigenbaum: one new editorial comment from Richard that Andy or SteveH can look at ←
14:19:58 <chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:IM-1
Chimezie Ogbuji: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:IM-1 ←
14:20:00 <MattPerry> LeeF: chimezie, you sent some comments right?
Lee Feigenbaum: chimezie, you sent some comments right? ←
14:20:08 <MattPerry> chimezie: yes
Chimezie Ogbuji: yes ←
14:20:16 <chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:SJ-1
Chimezie Ogbuji: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:SJ-1 ←
14:20:40 <MattPerry> chimezie: first response is to Ivan
Chimezie Ogbuji: first response is to Ivan ←
14:21:34 <MattPerry> LeeF: this would be a substantial change
Lee Feigenbaum: this would be a substantial change ←
14:22:00 <MattPerry> ... is his suggestion a good idea?
... is his suggestion a good idea? ←
14:22:05 <MattPerry> chimezie: yes
Chimezie Ogbuji: yes ←
14:22:24 <MattPerry> LeeF: we need a group decision becuase this is a substantive change
Lee Feigenbaum: we need a group decision becuase this is a substantive change ←
14:22:58 <MattPerry> ... we can aim for decisions next week
... we can aim for decisions next week ←
14:24:18 <MattPerry> LeeF: for second one, I don't think there's any substantive change
Lee Feigenbaum: for second one, I don't think there's any substantive change ←
14:24:28 <SteveH> we do the same sniffing, and consider it conformant
Steve Harris: we do the same sniffing, and consider it conformant ←
14:24:59 <MattPerry> LeeF: main question is should we support multi-part form
Lee Feigenbaum: main question is should we support multi-part form ←
14:25:25 <MattPerry> ... the change would require another last call
... the change would require another last call ←
14:25:45 <MattPerry> ... there are still documents not in last call though, so it's not quite as bad
... there are still documents not in last call though, so it's not quite as bad ←
14:25:45 <SteveH> if we are going for another last call I think we should consider dropping the direct POST feature, it's not very useful in our experience
Steve Harris: if we are going for another last call I think we should consider dropping the direct POST feature, it's not very useful in our experience ←
14:26:44 <MattPerry> SteveH: direct POST feature is not very useful and a significant burden on developers
Steve Harris: direct POST feature is not very useful and a significant burden on developers ←
14:27:28 <SteveH> …as opposed the for form-based POST request (for Update)
Steve Harris: …as opposed the for form-based POST request (for Update) ←
14:27:51 <MattPerry> chimeze: SJ-1 would require substantive changes
Chimezie Ogbuji: SJ-1 would require substantive changes ←
14:28:02 <MattPerry> s/chimeze/chimezie
14:29:13 <kasei> i would oppose the suggested requirement for cache-related headers (SJ-1 point 6)
Gregory Williams: i would oppose the suggested requirement for cache-related headers (SJ-1 point 6) ←
14:29:17 <MattPerry> chimezie: need to look at SJ-1 more thoroughly
Chimezie Ogbuji: need to look at SJ-1 more thoroughly ←
14:30:34 <MattPerry> kasei: Point 6 is more far reaching ... I support it in theory, but it is a large burden on implementors. Should not use "MUST" wording
Gregory Williams: Point 6 is more far reaching ... I support it in theory, but it is a large burden on implementors. Should not use "MUST" wording ←
14:31:16 <MattPerry> LeeF: any more comment responses
Lee Feigenbaum: any more comment responses ←
14:31:28 <MattPerry> kasei: I have one open for David Booth
Gregory Williams: I have one open for David Booth ←
14:31:34 <MattPerry> ... hoping for some feedback
... hoping for some feedback ←
14:31:43 <MattPerry> ... DB6
... DB6 ←
14:33:47 <MattPerry> kasei: Point 3: issue with range of sd:endpoint property
Gregory Williams: Point 3: issue with range of sd:endpoint property ←
14:34:22 <MattPerry> ... is this a legitimate issue?
... is this a legitimate issue? ←
14:34:49 <MattPerry> LeeF: I'm not concerned ... I would just clarify to David
Lee Feigenbaum: I'm not concerned ... I would just clarify to David ←
14:36:36 <MattPerry> ... Point 4: IRI vs URI
... Point 4: IRI vs URI ←
14:36:52 <MattPerry> LeeF: answer should fall out of other relevant specs
Lee Feigenbaum: answer should fall out of other relevant specs ←
14:37:44 <MattPerry> kasei: Point 7 r.e. testing ... only thing we can test is whether or not it returns RDF and does it have a certain triple
Gregory Williams: Point 7 r.e. testing ... only thing we can test is whether or not it returns RDF and does it have a certain triple ←
14:38:14 <MattPerry> LeeF: we could test optional parts to show levels of support
Lee Feigenbaum: we could test optional parts to show levels of support ←
14:38:53 <MattPerry> kasei: Point 10 -- distinguish between read only and allows update
Gregory Williams: Point 10 -- distinguish between read only and allows update ←
14:39:31 <MattPerry> LeeF: this only one of many such possible properties
Lee Feigenbaum: this only one of many such possible properties ←
14:39:58 <MattPerry> kasei: Point 11 is syntactic ... I mostly agree but am hesitant to change them
Gregory Williams: Point 11 is syntactic ... I mostly agree but am hesitant to change them ←
14:41:07 <MattPerry> ... Point 12 same as Point 3
... Point 12 same as Point 3 ←
14:41:44 <MattPerry> ... Point 15 -- use of "default dataset" ... it is not used anywhere else
... Point 15 -- use of "default dataset" ... it is not used anywhere else ←
14:42:23 <MattPerry> LeeF: anyone else have comments
Lee Feigenbaum: anyone else have comments ←
14:42:26 <MattPerry> silence
silence ←
14:42:42 <LeeF> topic: implementation report
14:42:49 <kasei> http://kasei.us/code/rdf-query/dawg11/report.html
Gregory Williams: http://kasei.us/code/rdf-query/dawg11/report.html ←
14:43:35 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:43:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Olivier, kasei, cbuilara, MattPerry, pgearon, LeeF, chimezie, SteveH__
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Olivier, kasei, cbuilara, MattPerry, pgearon, LeeF, chimezie, SteveH__ ←
14:43:44 <MattPerry> kasei: have reports for RDF::Query and Rasqal
Gregory Williams: have reports for RDF::Query and Rasqal ←
14:43:55 <SteveH> sparql 1.1 tests: sorry, no
Steve Harris: sparql 1.1 tests: sorry, no ←
14:43:59 <MattPerry> LeeF: anyone else have a report
Lee Feigenbaum: anyone else have a report ←
14:44:07 <MattPerry> chimezie: hope to but not yet
Chimezie Ogbuji: hope to but not yet ←
14:44:12 <MattPerry> pgearon: I haven't
Paul Gearon: I haven't ←
14:44:59 <MattPerry> LeeF: we talked about using EricP's scripts from SPARQL 1.0 for SPARQL 1.1
Lee Feigenbaum: we talked about using EricP's scripts from SPARQL 1.0 for SPARQL 1.1 ←
14:45:13 <MattPerry> kasei: EricP's sripts do more stuff
Gregory Williams: EricP's sripts do more stuff ←
14:45:29 <MattPerry> LeeF: I think it will be easier to use kasei's scripts
Lee Feigenbaum: I think it will be easier to use kasei's scripts ←
14:45:40 <MattPerry> kasei: I would be fine with moving my stuff to W3C
Gregory Williams: I would be fine with moving my stuff to W3C ←
14:46:39 <MattPerry> LeeF: can you bundle your code up?
Lee Feigenbaum: can you bundle your code up? ←
14:47:11 <MattPerry> kasei: there's probably quite a bit of pain to move it all over
Gregory Williams: there's probably quite a bit of pain to move it all over ←
14:47:28 <MattPerry> LeeF: we can leave the code where it is
Lee Feigenbaum: we can leave the code where it is ←
14:48:13 <LeeF> ACTION: Gregory to let us know where the impl report code is in git and to put the generated report file somewhere in our CVS space
ACTION: Gregory to let us know where the impl report code is in git and to put the generated report file somewhere in our CVS space ←
14:48:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-527 - Let us know where the impl report code is in git and to put the generated report file somewhere in our CVS space [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-08-30].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-527 - Let us know where the impl report code is in git and to put the generated report file somewhere in our CVS space [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-08-30]. ←
14:48:36 <MattPerry> kasei: the entailment tests aren't marked as optional
Gregory Williams: the entailment tests aren't marked as optional ←
14:50:02 <MattPerry> LeeF: I thought we would have multiple super manifests, so you could pick e.g. a query test suite
Lee Feigenbaum: I thought we would have multiple super manifests, so you could pick e.g. a query test suite ←
14:50:20 <MattPerry> ... right now we have only 1 super manifest
... right now we have only 1 super manifest ←
14:50:45 <MattPerry> chimezie: we should do this so the tests are more modular
Chimezie Ogbuji: we should do this so the tests are more modular ←
14:51:18 <MattPerry> LeeF: we should at least have spec granularity
Lee Feigenbaum: we should at least have spec granularity ←
14:51:29 <MattPerry> kasei: I would be happy with that level of granularity
Gregory Williams: I would be happy with that level of granularity ←
14:53:05 <MattPerry> LeeF: anyone not like this way of splitting up tests?
Lee Feigenbaum: anyone not like this way of splitting up tests? ←
14:53:08 <MattPerry> silence
silence ←
14:53:37 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to create new "collective" manifests at the granularity of spec conformance (query, update, entailment, fed query, json results, ...)
ACTION: Lee to create new "collective" manifests at the granularity of spec conformance (query, update, entailment, fed query, json results, ...) ←
14:53:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-528 - Create new "collective" manifests at the granularity of spec conformance (query, update, entailment, fed query, json results, ...) [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-30].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-528 - Create new "collective" manifests at the granularity of spec conformance (query, update, entailment, fed query, json results, ...) [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-08-30]. ←
14:53:59 <kasei> q+
Gregory Williams: q+ ←
14:54:13 <LeeF> ack kasei
Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei ←
14:55:19 <MattPerry> kasei: we have currently be using mf:requires for optional things ... if we split into separate parts then these annotations may need to change
Gregory Williams: we have currently be using mf:requires for optional things ... if we split into separate parts then these annotations may need to change ←
14:55:43 <MattPerry> ... it's useful to have those annotations on tests
... it's useful to have those annotations on tests ←
14:56:29 <MattPerry> chimezie: what does it mean in terms of implementation reports for something to be optional
Chimezie Ogbuji: what does it mean in terms of implementation reports for something to be optional ←
14:57:09 <MattPerry> LeeF: the optional tests don't count towards conformance
Lee Feigenbaum: the optional tests don't count towards conformance ←
14:58:10 <MattPerry> LeeF: any more issues
Lee Feigenbaum: any more issues ←
14:58:21 <MattPerry> pgearon: Comment DB-5
Paul Gearon: Comment DB-5 ←
14:58:48 <MattPerry> ... first item -- add virtual graph or keep copy, add, remove shortcuts
... first item -- add virtual graph or keep copy, add, remove shortcuts ←
14:59:04 <MattPerry> ... those features are still marked as at risk
... those features are still marked as at risk ←
14:59:32 <MattPerry> LeeF: we should basically consider this as feeback to keep these features
Lee Feigenbaum: we should basically consider this as feeback to keep these features ←
15:00:03 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
15:00:04 <MattPerry> pgearon: I'd like to remove the at risk notes for these
Paul Gearon: I'd like to remove the at risk notes for these ←
15:00:18 <pgearon> sorry, got kicked off
Paul Gearon: sorry, got kicked off ←
15:00:21 <MattPerry> LeeF: I think we should leave at risk and wait for implementation reports
Lee Feigenbaum: I think we should leave at risk and wait for implementation reports ←
15:00:53 <LeeF> Adjourned.
Lee Feigenbaum: Adjourned. ←
15:00:54 <chimezie> bye
Chimezie Ogbuji: bye ←
15:00:57 <Zakim> -chimezie
Zakim IRC Bot: -chimezie ←
15:01:00 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/ ←
15:01:12 <Zakim> -cbuilara
Zakim IRC Bot: -cbuilara ←
15:01:12 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
15:01:13 <Zakim> -Olivier
Zakim IRC Bot: -Olivier ←
15:01:13 <Zakim> -SteveH__
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH__ ←
15:01:15 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
15:01:16 <pgearon> Thanks
Paul Gearon: Thanks ←
15:01:16 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:01:18 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended ←
15:01:20 <Zakim> Attendees were kasei, MattPerry, pgearon, LeeF, cbuilara, Olivier, +1.216.368.aaaa, chimezie, SteveH__
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were kasei, MattPerry, pgearon, LeeF, cbuilara, Olivier, +1.216.368.aaaa, chimezie, SteveH__ ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2011-08-23 15:08:54 UTC by 'mperry', comments: None