SPARQL Working Group

Minutes of 26 April 2011

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-04-26
Present
Birte Glimm, Gregory Williams, Carlos Buil Aranda, Steve Harris, Axel Polleres, Matthew Perry, Paul Gearon, Olivier Corby, Andy Seaborne, Chimezie Ogbuji, Lee Feigenbaum
Regrets
Alexandre Passant
Chair
Axel Polleres
Scribe
Gregory Williams
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. approve minutes form last time http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-04-19 link
Topics
<kasei> Present: bglimm, kasei, cbuilara, SteveH, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, pgearon, OlivierCorby, AndyS, chimezie, Lee_Feigenbaum
13:55:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/26-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/26-sparql-irc

13:55:53 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, this will be SPARQL

Axel Polleres: Zakim, this will be SPARQL

13:55:53 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

13:55:59 <bglimm> ok, then I'll dial in... no Easter holidays...

Birte Glimm: ok, then I'll dial in... no Easter holidays...

13:56:01 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011AprJun/0108.html
13:56:08 <AxelPolleres> chair: Axel Polleres
13:57:07 <AxelPolleres> regrets: Alex
13:57:21 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

13:57:30 <Zakim> + +44.186.528.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.186.528.aaaa

13:57:39 <bglimm> Zakim, +44.186.528.aaaa is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, +44.186.528.aaaa is me

13:57:39 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

13:57:40 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

13:57:55 <Zakim> +kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei

13:57:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

13:58:06 <cbuilara> zakim, IPcaller is me

Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, IPcaller is me

13:58:07 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it

13:58:24 <Zakim> -??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P3

13:58:50 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

13:58:54 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P3 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P3 is me

13:58:54 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it

13:59:09 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres

13:59:32 <Zakim> +MattPerry

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry

14:01:04 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon

14:01:06 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby

14:01:21 <AxelPolleres> tried to quickly paste things we shall discuss on the wiki: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-04-26

Axel Polleres: tried to quickly paste things we shall discuss on the wiki: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-04-26

14:01:28 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-04-26
14:02:04 <AxelPolleres> let's give it another minute...

Axel Polleres: let's give it another minute...

14:02:26 <OlivierCorby> pass code is rejected when calling  number in France (04.26.46.79.03)

Olivier Corby: pass code is rejected when calling number in France (04.26.46.79.03)

14:03:31 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

14:03:37 <AndyS> zakim, ??P14 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P14 is me

14:03:37 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:04:12 <kasei> who is scribing?

Gregory Williams: who is scribing?

14:04:31 <kasei> I can

Gregory Williams: I can

14:04:36 <kasei> scribenick: kasei

(Scribe set to Gregory Williams)

14:04:40 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.368.aabb

14:04:49 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Greg Williams
14:04:49 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.368.aabb is me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, +1.216.368.aabb is me

14:04:49 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +chimezie; got it

14:04:55 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin

1. admin

14:05:21 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve minutes form last time http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-04-19

PROPOSED: approve minutes form last time http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-04-19

14:05:44 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve minutes form last time http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-04-19

RESOLVED: approve minutes form last time http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-04-19

14:06:15 <AxelPolleres> topic: document status

2. document status

14:06:45 <kasei> AxelPolleres: plan is to go to last call for many of the documents next week.

Axel Polleres: plan is to go to last call for many of the documents next week.

14:06:59 <kasei> ... query, update, service description, graph store protocol, entailment, federated query

... query, update, service description, graph store protocol, entailment, federated query

<kasei> subtopic: query

2.1. query

14:07:38 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call

14:07:38 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call#Query

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call#Query

14:07:40 <kasei> SteveH: done all the major things. still some tidying up to be done.

Steve Harris: done all the major things. still some tidying up to be done.

14:07:45 <kasei> ... in reasonable shape.

... in reasonable shape.

14:08:03 <kasei> AndyS: I've got comments form Birte to deal with and one comment that needs a reply.

Andy Seaborne: I've got comments form Birte to deal with and one comment that needs a reply.

14:08:13 <bglimm> q+ to ask about (NOT) EXISTS FILTER

Birte Glimm: q+ to ask about (NOT) EXISTS FILTER

14:08:15 <kasei> AxelPolleres: is there anything preventing LC next week? is that realistic?

Axel Polleres: is there anything preventing LC next week? is that realistic?

14:08:39 <kasei> AndyS: realistic to make a formal decision. there may be some things outstanding.

Andy Seaborne: realistic to make a formal decision. there may be some things outstanding.

14:08:54 <kasei> AxelPolleres: probably need some final approval from reviewers.

Axel Polleres: probably need some final approval from reviewers.

14:09:21 <kasei> bglimm: I had a look at the algebra section and still not happy with (NOT) EXISTS

Birte Glimm: I had a look at the algebra section and still not happy with (NOT) EXISTS

14:09:30 <kasei> ... I can't see how that is supposed to work.

... I can't see how that is supposed to work.

14:09:54 <kasei> AndyS: going to deal with Birte's comment.

Andy Seaborne: going to deal with Birte's comment.

14:10:31 <AxelPolleres> Query summary: Birte's comments and one public comment open ?

Axel Polleres: Query summary: Birte's comments and one public comment open ?

14:10:38 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum

Zakim IRC Bot: +Lee_Feigenbaum

14:10:56 <kasei> AxelPolleres: let us know if there are any other issues. otherwise will hopefully move forward next time.

Axel Polleres: let us know if there are any other issues. otherwise will hopefully move forward next time.

14:10:58 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:11:04 <AxelPolleres> ack birte

Axel Polleres: ack birte

14:11:09 <bglimm> Zakim, ack me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, ack me

14:11:09 <Zakim> unmuting bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: unmuting bglimm

14:11:11 <Zakim> bglimm, you wanted to ask about (NOT) EXISTS FILTER

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm, you wanted to ask about (NOT) EXISTS FILTER

14:11:11 <AxelPolleres> ack bglimm

Axel Polleres: ack bglimm

14:11:12 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see no one on the speaker queue

14:11:20 <AndyS> bglimm, what is "expire"? s//exists/?

Andy Seaborne: bglimm, what is "expire"? s//exists/?

<kasei> subtopic: update

2.2. update

14:11:42 <pgearon> There seem to be a couple of open questions, particularly around the formal semantics

Paul Gearon: There seem to be a couple of open questions, particularly around the formal semantics

14:11:47 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call#Update

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call#Update

14:12:09 <kasei> pgearon: most of the questions are around the formal semantics.

Paul Gearon: most of the questions are around the formal semantics.

14:12:17 <kasei> ... all outstanding editorial tasks have been done.

... all outstanding editorial tasks have been done.

14:12:29 <kasei> ... a couple of questions have come up lately that haven't been addressed.

... a couple of questions have come up lately that haven't been addressed.

14:12:43 <kasei> AxelPolleres: just sent a mail trying to address greg's comments.

Axel Polleres: just sent a mail trying to address greg's comments.

14:12:51 <kasei> ... still a list of open things.

... still a list of open things.

14:13:13 <kasei> ... open issue: semantics of USING concerning blank nodes.

... open issue: semantics of USING concerning blank nodes.

14:13:26 <kasei> ... up to Paul and myself to make a proposal.

... up to Paul and myself to make a proposal.

14:13:29 <kasei> ... this is the most critical.

... this is the most critical.

14:13:44 <kasei> ... other things are mostly editorial.

... other things are mostly editorial.

14:13:50 <AndyS> And the descriptive text of USING ("identicial" is not acceptable)

Andy Seaborne: And the descriptive text of USING ("identicial" is not acceptable)

14:13:53 <kasei> ... no "glue" between syntax and semantics yet.

... no "glue" between syntax and semantics yet.

14:14:15 <kasei> ... we don't have semantics of multi-operation requests.

... we don't have semantics of multi-operation requests.

14:14:34 <kasei> ... hope to address this by next week, but not realistic to make a decision yet.

... hope to address this by next week, but not realistic to make a decision yet.

14:14:42 <LeeF> q+ to note publication moratorium

Lee Feigenbaum: q+ to note publication moratorium

14:15:07 <LeeF> We need to have our publication requests ready by May 6, or else we slip until late May - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2011JanMar/0001.html

Lee Feigenbaum: We need to have our publication requests ready by May 6, or else we slip until late May - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2011JanMar/0001.html

14:15:10 <LeeF> ack me

Lee Feigenbaum: ack me

14:15:10 <Zakim> LeeF, you wanted to note publication moratorium

Zakim IRC Bot: LeeF, you wanted to note publication moratorium

14:15:36 <kasei> kasei: mostly happy with the response to my comments and how they are being handled.

Gregory Williams: mostly happy with the response to my comments and how they are being handled.

14:15:38 <LeeF> It's a W3C publication moratorium surrounding the W3C AC Meeting

Lee Feigenbaum: It's a W3C publication moratorium surrounding the W3C AC Meeting

14:15:44 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

14:16:09 <kasei> AxelPolleres: will try to have things ready by Friday, and hope Andy and Greg can have another look.

Axel Polleres: will try to have things ready by Friday, and hope Andy and Greg can have another look.

14:16:24 <LeeF> I think fully ready :-(

Lee Feigenbaum: I think fully ready :-(

14:16:27 <kasei> AndyS: we've got to get through the pubrules. Does this moratorium mean it has to be ready by then? Or just asked for publication by then?

Andy Seaborne: we've got to get through the pubrules. Does this moratorium mean it has to be ready by then? Or just asked for publication by then?

14:16:28 <LeeF> But sandro would know best

Lee Feigenbaum: But sandro would know best

14:16:42 <LeeF> I'll see if I cna ask someone else while we continue the call

Lee Feigenbaum: I'll see if I cna ask someone else while we continue the call

14:16:57 <kasei> AndyS: might be able to turn this into a virtue. there's still the issue with the RDF WG about changes in turtle.

Andy Seaborne: might be able to turn this into a virtue. there's still the issue with the RDF WG about changes in turtle.

14:17:06 <kasei> ... if we want to keep turtle and sparql aligned, then more time would be good.

... if we want to keep turtle and sparql aligned, then more time would be good.

14:17:17 <AndyS> ack me

Andy Seaborne: ack me

14:17:20 <kasei> ... have asked that they address the issue, but haven't seen it on an agenda yet.

... have asked that they address the issue, but haven't seen it on an agenda yet.

14:17:22 <LeeF> I will bring that up at CG call ASAP as well (again)

Lee Feigenbaum: I will bring that up at CG call ASAP as well (again)

14:17:36 <kasei> AxelPolleres: are there any other issues from the RDF WG that will affect our work?

Axel Polleres: are there any other issues from the RDF WG that will affect our work?

14:17:49 <LeeF> AndyS, if there's a statement of intent, do we have any other changes we'd need to make?

Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, if there's a statement of intent, do we have any other changes we'd need to make?

14:17:51 <kasei> AndyS: worst outcome would be a long discussion for each difference.

Andy Seaborne: worst outcome would be a long discussion for each difference.

14:18:16 <kasei> AxelPolleres: should try to get as ready as we can by next week.

Axel Polleres: should try to get as ready as we can by next week.

14:18:26 <kasei> ... will clarify with sandro what is needed by the 6th.

... will clarify with sandro what is needed by the 6th.

14:18:46 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to check with sandro about what's needed for publication by May 6th

ACTION: axel to check with sandro about what's needed for publication by May 6th

14:18:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-443 - Check with sandro about what's needed for publication by May 6th [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-443 - Check with sandro about what's needed for publication by May 6th [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-05-03].

14:19:04 <kasei> AxelPolleres: will ask editors to check pubrules by next time.

Axel Polleres: will ask editors to check pubrules by next time.

14:19:44 <kasei> ... if you think it's realistic ot be ready by next week, is it possible to have text that can be reviewed by the end of this week?

... if you think it's realistic ot be ready by next week, is it possible to have text that can be reviewed by the end of this week?

14:19:50 <LeeF> wedding?

Lee Feigenbaum: wedding?

14:19:57 <kasei> AndyS: no. 4-day weekend in UK this week.

Andy Seaborne: no. 4-day weekend in UK this week.

14:21:10 <kasei> AxelPolleres: I can propose text for open update issues, but need help for checkign pubrules, etc.

Axel Polleres: I can propose text for open update issues, but need help for checkign pubrules, etc.

14:21:17 <kasei> pgearon: I can commit to helping with that.

Paul Gearon: I can commit to helping with that.

14:21:34 <AxelPolleres> paul and axel to chat later on skype

Axel Polleres: paul and axel to chat later on skype

<kasei> subtopic: service description

2.3. service description

14:22:11 <bglimm> I wrote an email on that

Birte Glimm: I wrote an email on that

14:22:55 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q?

14:23:41 <kasei> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011AprJun/0102.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011AprJun/0102.html

14:23:57 <kasei> bglimm: I suggested one way of handling the entailment issue

Birte Glimm: I suggested one way of handling the entailment issue

14:24:11 <kasei> q+

q+

14:24:39 <kasei> bglimm: at the moment, you can specify a default regime and a regime per named graph.

Birte Glimm: at the moment, you can specify a default regime and a regime per named graph.

14:24:54 <kasei> ... suggested that domain of the entailment regime property should be Graph, not NamedGraph.

... suggested that domain of the entailment regime property should be Graph, not NamedGraph.

14:25:17 <kasei> ... also, right now Profiles are attached to graphs.

... also, right now Profiles are attached to graphs.

14:25:18 <AxelPolleres> a) renaming graph property, b) profiles assigned to service not to graphs

Axel Polleres: a) renaming graph property, b) profiles assigned to service not to graphs

14:27:26 <AxelPolleres> as for b) greg's sees a problem, possibly every profile attached to any regime.

Axel Polleres: as for b) greg's sees a problem, possibly every profile attached to any regime.

14:27:51 <kasei> AxelPolleres: didn't we already agree that entailment regimes are assigned to graphs?

Axel Polleres: didn't we already agree that entailment regimes are assigned to graphs?

14:28:18 <kasei> bglimm: yes, but if you support owl direct semantics and rdf-based semantics, saying "OWL RL" isn't enough, because RL can be used in either Direct or RDF-based semantics.

Birte Glimm: yes, but if you support owl direct semantics and rdf-based semantics, saying "OWL RL" isn't enough, because RL can be used in either Direct or RDF-based semantics.

14:28:29 <kasei> ... does RL apply to both semantics if you calim RL is a supported profile?

... does RL apply to both semantics if you calim RL is a supported profile?

14:28:40 <kasei> ... at the moment, there's no way of distinguishing.

... at the moment, there's no way of distinguishing.

14:28:57 <kasei> ... the semantics and the profile belong together.

... the semantics and the profile belong together.

14:29:36 <kasei> ... it's a bit weird to assign the profile to graphs. a graph doesn't "have a profile".

... it's a bit weird to assign the profile to graphs. a graph doesn't "have a profile".

14:30:02 <kasei> AxelPolleres: is there any action here? does anybody else have a strong opinion?

Axel Polleres: is there any action here? does anybody else have a strong opinion?

14:30:13 <kasei> bglimm: taking it to email is probably best.

Birte Glimm: taking it to email is probably best.

14:30:15 <chimezie> it might help (me) if we had an example, perhaps

Chimezie Ogbuji: it might help (me) if we had an example, perhaps

14:30:24 <AxelPolleres> Birte and Greg to discuss a path forward

Axel Polleres: Birte and Greg to discuss a path forward

14:30:36 <bglimm> I added an example (of an SD) to my email

Birte Glimm: I added an example (of an SD) to my email

14:30:55 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Birte to report on outcome of entailment and SD discussion on email

ACTION: Birte to report on outcome of entailment and SD discussion on email

14:30:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-444 - Report on outcome of entailment and SD discussion on email [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-444 - Report on outcome of entailment and SD discussion on email [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-05-03].

14:30:56 <chimezie> ok, thanks (I missed that)

Chimezie Ogbuji: ok, thanks (I missed that)

<kasei> subtopic: graph store protocol

2.4. graph store protocol

14:31:31 <kasei> chimezie: no substantive outstanding issues.

Chimezie Ogbuji: no substantive outstanding issues.

14:31:40 <kasei> ... just sent out a draft response to KjetilK.

... just sent out a draft response to KjetilK.

14:31:53 <kasei> ... nothing else other than editorial thigns like pubrules checks

... nothing else other than editorial thigns like pubrules checks

14:32:02 <kasei> ... ready for LC by next week.

... ready for LC by next week.

14:32:23 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to check pubrules on graph protocol doc

ACTION: chime to check pubrules on graph protocol doc

14:32:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-445 - Check pubrules on graph protocol doc [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-445 - Check pubrules on graph protocol doc [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2011-05-03].

14:32:45 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to check pubrules for SD

ACTION: greg to check pubrules for SD

14:32:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-446 - Check pubrules for SD [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-446 - Check pubrules for SD [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-05-03].

14:33:06 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: paul to do pubrules check for Updates

ACTION: paul to do pubrules check for Updates

14:33:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-447 - Do pubrules check for Updates [on Paul Gearon - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-447 - Do pubrules check for Updates [on Paul Gearon - due 2011-05-03].

14:33:37 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: steve to check pubrules on query

ACTION: steve to check pubrules on query

14:33:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-448 - Check pubrules on query [on Steve Harris - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-448 - Check pubrules on query [on Steve Harris - due 2011-05-03].

<kasei> subtopic: entailment

2.5. entailment

14:33:46 <bglimm> wiki page for that: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Pub-Process

Birte Glimm: wiki page for that: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Pub-Process

14:34:01 <kasei> bglimm: still waiting for replies. mainly editorial issues.

Birte Glimm: still waiting for replies. mainly editorial issues.

14:34:24 <kasei> ... could take silence as agreement.

... could take silence as agreement.

14:34:48 <kasei> AxelPolleres: I suggest you try one more time. Take no response by the end of the week as agreement.

Axel Polleres: I suggest you try one more time. Take no response by the end of the week as agreement.

14:35:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Birte to ping jeff one more time to ask for confirmaiton of rewordings, otherwise takes silence as agreement

ACTION: Birte to ping jeff one more time to ask for confirmaiton of rewordings, otherwise takes silence as agreement

14:35:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-449 - Ping jeff one more time to ask for confirmaiton of rewordings, otherwise takes silence as agreement [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-449 - Ping jeff one more time to ask for confirmaiton of rewordings, otherwise takes silence as agreement [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-05-03].

14:35:11 <kasei> AxelPolleres: anything else open?

Axel Polleres: anything else open?

14:35:15 <kasei> bglimm: no, that's the last thing.

Birte Glimm: no, that's the last thing.

14:35:30 <kasei> AxelPolleres: one small thing from sandro about the RIF in RDF document.

Axel Polleres: one small thing from sandro about the RIF in RDF document.

14:35:45 <kasei> ... I assume it can wait until after LC. Just need that published before rec.

... I assume it can wait until after LC. Just need that published before rec.

14:35:52 <kasei> ... not a roadblock to LC.

... not a roadblock to LC.

14:36:15 <kasei> bglimm: issue on property paths and entailment.

Birte Glimm: issue on property paths and entailment.

14:36:45 <kasei> AxelPolleres: what's written in the entailment doc is that entailment works at the BGP level (only extension point we have)

Axel Polleres: what's written in the entailment doc is that entailment works at the BGP level (only extension point we have)

14:36:58 <kasei> ... property paths are not affected by entailment regime.

... property paths are not affected by entailment regime.

14:37:11 <kasei> ... property paths are first simplified, then matched.

... property paths are first simplified, then matched.

14:37:22 <kasei> ... arbitrary/zero length paths are different.

... arbitrary/zero length paths are different.

14:37:42 <kasei> ... some cases where you would expect entailment to work on arbitrary paths.

... some cases where you would expect entailment to work on arbitrary paths.

14:38:11 <kasei> ... worried that we've locked ourselves in on any future entailment work working at this level.

... worried that we've locked ourselves in on any future entailment work working at this level.

14:38:24 <AndyS> Arbitrary length paths have cardinality=1 makes entailment future easier. (speculation)

Andy Seaborne: Arbitrary length paths have cardinality=1 makes entailment future easier. (speculation)

14:38:32 <kasei> bglimm: could say that for queries that can't be simplified into BGPs, behaviour is not defined. leaves open for future versions.

Birte Glimm: could say that for queries that can't be simplified into BGPs, behaviour is not defined. leaves open for future versions.

14:38:54 <kasei> ... if you use entailment, only some property paths are guaranteed to work. others aren't specified.

... if you use entailment, only some property paths are guaranteed to work. others aren't specified.

14:39:22 <kasei> AxelPolleres: is this section informative?

Axel Polleres: is this section informative?

14:39:31 <kasei> bglimm: yes.

Birte Glimm: yes.

14:39:59 <kasei> AxelPolleres: would feel better if that was made clearer.

Axel Polleres: would feel better if that was made clearer.

14:40:17 <kasei> bglimm: I can do that today.

Birte Glimm: I can do that today.

14:40:46 <kasei> AxelPolleres: would it make sense to add a statement that future work may address this issue?

Axel Polleres: would it make sense to add a statement that future work may address this issue?

14:41:03 <kasei> AndyS: how can you make it clearer than "informative" in the title?

Andy Seaborne: how can you make it clearer than "informative" in the title?

14:41:11 <LeeF> <blink>

Lee Feigenbaum: <blink>

14:41:20 <kasei> LeeF++

LeeF++

14:41:22 <LeeF> ...or unicode snowmen

Lee Feigenbaum: ...or unicode snowmen

14:41:36 <kasei> AxelPolleres: want to point out the problematic cases.

Axel Polleres: want to point out the problematic cases.

14:42:05 <Zakim> -bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm

14:43:05 <AxelPolleres> informative probably enough, but admittedle not entirely happy with it.

Axel Polleres: informative probably enough, but admittedle not entirely happy with it.

14:43:19 <AxelPolleres> take that back to email.

Axel Polleres: take that back to email.

14:43:28 <Zakim> +bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm

14:43:34 <bglimm> Sorry I dropped out

Birte Glimm: Sorry I dropped out

14:44:07 <kasei> bglimm: will try to make the text clearer.

Birte Glimm: will try to make the text clearer.

14:44:28 <AxelPolleres> axel: show what's the limits would be good

Axel Polleres: show what's the limits would be good [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ]

<kasei> subtopic: federated query

2.6. federated query

14:44:59 <kasei> cbuilara: waiting for comments.

Carlos Buil Aranda: waiting for comments.

14:45:12 <LeeF> I'm hoping to get my comments by tonight

Lee Feigenbaum: I'm hoping to get my comments by tonight

14:45:18 <kasei> AxelPolleres: some questions on BINDINGS section?

Axel Polleres: some questions on BINDINGS section?

14:45:45 <kasei> ... not sure if I'll be able to look through it, but will check what cbuilara and LeeF discuss.

... not sure if I'll be able to look through it, but will check what cbuilara and LeeF discuss.

14:45:50 <kasei> ... apart form that, ready for LC?

... apart form that, ready for LC?

14:46:05 <kasei> cbuilara: yes. I've applied previous comments.

Carlos Buil Aranda: yes. I've applied previous comments.

14:46:25 <kasei> ... depends on comments being waited on, but think it can go.

... depends on comments being waited on, but think it can go.

14:46:38 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: carlos to check pubrules

ACTION: carlos to check pubrules

14:46:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-450 - Check pubrules [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-450 - Check pubrules [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-05-03].

14:47:02 <bglimm> Yes

Birte Glimm: Yes

14:47:12 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: birte to check pubrules on entailment

ACTION: birte to check pubrules on entailment

14:47:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-451 - Check pubrules on entailment [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-451 - Check pubrules on entailment [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-05-03].

14:47:46 <kasei> AxelPolleres: that's it for the documents.

Axel Polleres: that's it for the documents.

14:48:21 <kasei> ... do we have dataset-merge definition still in query?

... do we have dataset-merge definition still in query?

14:48:23 <kasei> AndyS: yes.

Andy Seaborne: yes.

14:48:42 <kasei> AxelPolleres: where do we go with that? I put in an alternative version in the update document.

Axel Polleres: where do we go with that? I put in an alternative version in the update document.

14:48:48 <kasei> ... not sure if that addresses Peter's comment.

... not sure if that addresses Peter's comment.

14:49:08 <kasei> AndyS: I did some editing, new wording.

Andy Seaborne: I did some editing, new wording.

14:49:28 <kasei> ... nervous about describing a dataset as a bunch of slots.

... nervous about describing a dataset as a bunch of slots.

14:50:16 <kasei> AxelPolleres: is the RDF WG going to take that up?

Axel Polleres: is the RDF WG going to take that up?

14:50:40 <kasei> AndyS: don't know. It's there because if there's going to be a distinguished version of dataset-merge, makes sense to have it next to the definition for dataset.

Andy Seaborne: don't know. It's there because if there's going to be a distinguished version of dataset-merge, makes sense to have it next to the definition for dataset.

14:51:03 <kasei> AndyS: don't have a picture of what the possible outcomes are.

Andy Seaborne: don't have a picture of what the possible outcomes are.

14:51:46 <kasei> AxelPolleres: should we leave it in optionally? at risk?

Axel Polleres: should we leave it in optionally? at risk?

14:52:05 <kasei> AndyS: just leave it in.

Andy Seaborne: just leave it in.

14:52:27 <kasei> ... does update need a merge?

... does update need a merge?

14:52:45 <kasei> AxelPolleres: not really sure. worried if we describe the LOAD operation in terms of dataset UNION, have to say something extra about blank nodes.

Axel Polleres: not really sure. worried if we describe the LOAD operation in terms of dataset UNION, have to say something extra about blank nodes.

14:52:53 <kasei> ... if I use dataset merge, then I don't.

... if I use dataset merge, then I don't.

14:53:08 <kasei> AndyS: LOAD is only on a single graph. so renaming can happen when the graph is read. it's coming from syntax.

Andy Seaborne: LOAD is only on a single graph. so renaming can happen when the graph is read. it's coming from syntax.

14:53:50 <kasei> AxelPolleres: if we don't need union, would also work for me.

Axel Polleres: if we don't need union, would also work for me.

14:54:34 <kasei> AndyS: the only problem is if the syntax introduces bnodes with clashing labels.

Andy Seaborne: the only problem is if the syntax introduces bnodes with clashing labels.

14:54:42 <kasei> ... somewhere it should say "don't".

... somewhere it should say "don't".

14:55:10 <kasei> AxelPolleres: probably don't need merge in update.

Axel Polleres: probably don't need merge in update.

14:55:41 <kasei> AxelPolleres: don't know how to keep the blank nodes adopting the definitions from query.

Axel Polleres: don't know how to keep the blank nodes adopting the definitions from query.

14:55:47 <kasei> ... so came up with the skolemization text.

... so came up with the skolemization text.

14:56:32 <kasei> AxelPolleres: we'll get to BINDING tests next week.

Axel Polleres: we'll get to BINDING tests next week.

14:56:52 <kasei> cbuilara: did tests for BINDINGS only, not yet SERVICE.

Carlos Buil Aranda: did tests for BINDINGS only, not yet SERVICE.

14:57:10 <kasei> AxelPolleres: I had an open action for federated tests. If you could suggest something, that would be great.

Axel Polleres: I had an open action for federated tests. If you could suggest something, that would be great.

14:58:05 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Carlos to think about Federated query testing (essentially helping on ACTION-274)

ACTION: Carlos to think about Federated query testing (essentially helping on ACTION-274)

14:58:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-452 - Think about Federated query testing (essentially helping on ACTION-274) [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-05-03].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-452 - Think about Federated query testing (essentially helping on ACTION-274) [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-05-03].



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This revision (#1) generated 2011-04-26 15:32:04 UTC by 'gwilliam', comments: 'Cleaned up minutes.'