13:56:14 <AndyS> Present: SteveH, kasei, cbuilara, AndyS, LeeF, bglimm, MattPerry, OlivierCorby, Sandro
13:56:17 <AndyS> LeeF, you could review all but sec 18 and factor in comments by Birte and Matt. Majority are sec 18 comments - we can process those first then you review.
Andy Seaborne: LeeF, you could review all but sec 18 and factor in comments by Birte and Matt. Majority are sec 18 comments - we can process those first then you review. ←
13:56:26 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
13:56:26 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
13:56:30 <LeeF> AndyS, thanks
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, thanks ←
13:56:34 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
13:56:36 <LeeF> Scribe: Andy Seaborne
(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)
13:56:39 <LeeF> Scribenick: AndyS
13:56:46 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-03-15
13:57:03 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Alex, Chime, Paul
14:00:59 <AndyS> Topic: Admin
14:01:59 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-03-08
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-03-08 ←
14:02:26 <AndyS> seconded
seconded ←
14:02:36 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-03-08
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-03-08 ←
14:02:53 <AndyS> LeeF: No new comments to assign
Lee Feigenbaum: No new comments to assign ←
14:03:06 <LeeF> Next regular meeting: 2011-03-22 @ 14:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Lee F) NOTE DIFFERENT TIME FOR NON-US LOCATIONS
Lee Feigenbaum: Next regular meeting: 2011-03-22 @ 14:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Lee F) NOTE DIFFERENT TIME FOR NON-US LOCATIONS ←
14:03:07 <AndyS> ... Axel will do a round up next week.
... Axel will do a round up next week. ←
14:03:26 <AndyS> scribe next time: LeeF
scribe next time: LeeF ←
14:03:38 <LeeF> steveh at risk
Lee Feigenbaum: steveh at risk ←
14:03:48 <LeeF> topic: to last call
14:04:14 <AndyS> Query reviews from Birte and Matt
Query reviews from Birte and Matt ←
14:04:29 <AndyS> ... in email
... in email ←
14:04:58 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0433.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0433.html ←
14:05:06 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0436.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0436.html ←
14:05:28 <LeeF> close ACTION-391
Lee Feigenbaum: close ACTION-391 ←
14:05:29 <trackbot> ACTION-391 Review Query, particularly Section 18 closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-391 Review Query, particularly Section 18 closed ←
14:05:35 <AndyS> just waiting for LeeF now :-)
just waiting for LeeF now :-) ←
14:05:50 <AndyS> ... and Axel. Spot the connection.
... and Axel. Spot the connection. ←
14:06:46 <AndyS> AndyS update reviews http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0421.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0427.html
AndyS update reviews http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0421.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0427.html ←
14:08:09 <LeeF> bglimm: 2 significant issues - no connection between EXISTS/NOT EXISTS and algebra & property paths break entailment extension mechanism
Birte Glimm: 2 significant issues - no connection between EXISTS/NOT EXISTS and algebra & property paths break entailment extension mechanism [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:08:17 <LeeF> AndyS: re first, that's an omission
Andy Seaborne: re first, that's an omission [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:10:08 <AndyS> ... entailment doc was going to discuss entailment+prop paths -- still some discussion about what's in query doc.
... entailment doc was going to discuss entailment+prop paths -- still some discussion about what's in query doc. ←
14:10:31 <AndyS> Kendal : his org is not able to review the entailment doc.
Kendal : his org is not able to review the entailment doc. ←
14:10:45 <AndyS> LeeF: One view from Oracle (link?)
Lee Feigenbaum: One view from Oracle (link?) ←
14:10:52 <bglimm> I can ask Bijan, but I asked in our group here and no volunteers :-(
Birte Glimm: I can ask Bijan, but I asked in our group here and no volunteers :-( ←
14:11:18 <AndyS> ... will ask semweb co-ordination group - maybe someone from OWL2.
... will ask semweb co-ordination group - maybe someone from OWL2. ←
14:11:47 <bglimm> I can also ask Ian whether he can think of somebody
Birte Glimm: I can also ask Ian whether he can think of somebody ←
14:12:01 <AndyS> ... do want 2 (+) reviews before LC
... do want 2 (+) reviews before LC ←
14:12:06 <MattPerry> Oracle entailment review from Zhe Whu (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0217.html)
Matthew Perry: Oracle entailment review from Zhe Whu (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0217.html) ←
14:12:11 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to ask for pre-last call reviews of entailment doc from SWCG and OWL WG
ACTION: Lee to ask for pre-last call reviews of entailment doc from SWCG and OWL WG ←
14:12:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-411 - Ask for pre-last call reviews of entailment doc from SWCG and OWL WG [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-03-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-411 - Ask for pre-last call reviews of entailment doc from SWCG and OWL WG [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-03-22]. ←
14:12:55 <AndyS> Topic: Actions
14:13:02 <AndyS> None to close
None to close ←
14:13:06 <LeeF> topic: Dataset protocol & service description
14:14:08 <AndyS> Little email discussion after last telecon
Little email discussion after last telecon ←
14:14:32 <LeeF> PROPOSED: The SPARQL 1.1 Service Description describes endpoints that implement the SPARQL 1.1 Protocol; it does not describe URIs that respond to the SPARQL 1.1 RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol.
PROPOSED: The SPARQL 1.1 Service Description describes endpoints that implement the SPARQL 1.1 Protocol; it does not describe URIs that respond to the SPARQL 1.1 RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol. ←
14:14:32 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
14:14:36 <sandro> (sorry I'm late)
Sandro Hawke: (sorry I'm late) ←
14:14:39 <AndyS> ... proposal is therefore the minimal case that service description covers protocol, not HTTP dataset protocol
... proposal is therefore the minimal case that service description covers protocol, not HTTP dataset protocol ←
14:15:07 <AndyS> ... anyone have concerns about this approach?
... anyone have concerns about this approach? ←
14:15:11 <LeeF> <silence>
Lee Feigenbaum: <silence> ←
14:15:19 <kasei> +1
Gregory Williams: +1 ←
14:15:38 <LeeF> RESOLVED: The SPARQL 1.1 Service Description describes endpoints that implement the SPARQL 1.1 Protocol; it does not describe URIs that respond to the SPARQL 1.1 RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol.
RESOLVED: The SPARQL 1.1 Service Description describes endpoints that implement the SPARQL 1.1 Protocol; it does not describe URIs that respond to the SPARQL 1.1 RDF Dataset HTTP Protocol. ←
14:16:04 <AndyS> LeeF: Overview doc needs to point this out.
Lee Feigenbaum: Overview doc needs to point this out. ←
14:16:25 <AndyS> Kasei: SD doc does not mention dataset protocol.
Gregory Williams: SD doc does not mention dataset protocol. ←
14:17:06 <AndyS> LeeF: make clear statement about what is described and leave to overview doc.
Lee Feigenbaum: make clear statement about what is described and leave to overview doc. ←
14:17:25 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to make sure overview document is clear about (non-)relationship between service description and rdf dataset http protocol
ACTION: Lee to make sure overview document is clear about (non-)relationship between service description and rdf dataset http protocol ←
14:17:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-412 - Make sure overview document is clear about (non-)relationship between service description and rdf dataset http protocol [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-03-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-412 - Make sure overview document is clear about (non-)relationship between service description and rdf dataset http protocol [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-03-22]. ←
14:18:29 <AndyS> Topic: relationship between URI of a graph store at which they can issue dataset protocol requests?
14:19:04 <AndyS> LeeF: a bit unclear currently : not an issue in SPARQL 1.0 in practice,
Lee Feigenbaum: a bit unclear currently : not an issue in SPARQL 1.0 in practice, ←
14:20:09 <AndyS> SteveH: /sparql/dataset and /data/dataset
Steve Harris: /sparql/dataset and /data/dataset ←
14:21:04 <AndyS> AndyS: Fuseki uses /dataset/sparql, /dataset/update and /dataset/data (and /dataset)
Andy Seaborne: Fuseki uses /dataset/sparql, /dataset/update and /dataset/data (and /dataset) ←
14:22:37 <AndyS> LeeF: SD assumes you have a URI to GET to start process
Lee Feigenbaum: SD assumes you have a URI to GET to start process ←
14:23:56 <AndyS> LeeF: Leave as is for now there being no proposals
Lee Feigenbaum: Leave as is for now there being no proposals ←
14:24:09 <AndyS> Topic: More operations besides POSTing to a Graph Store
14:24:00 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0013.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0013.html ←
14:24:22 <LeeF> """
Lee Feigenbaum: """ ←
14:24:23 <LeeF> However my comment relates to management of Datasets, not graphs. I
Lee Feigenbaum: However my comment relates to management of Datasets, not graphs. I ←
14:24:23 <LeeF> think it would be useful to be able to:
Lee Feigenbaum: think it would be useful to be able to: ←
14:24:23 <LeeF> * Add/Remove Datasets
Lee Feigenbaum: * Add/Remove Datasets ←
14:24:23 <LeeF> * Add/Remove Graphs from Datasets
Lee Feigenbaum: * Add/Remove Graphs from Datasets ←
14:24:23 <LeeF> The specification already discusses the addition and removal of Graphs.
Lee Feigenbaum: The specification already discusses the addition and removal of Graphs. ←
14:24:25 <LeeF> """
Lee Feigenbaum: """ ←
14:25:26 <AndyS> q+ to ask why point 2 isn't always covered
q+ to ask why point 2 isn't always covered ←
14:25:29 <kasei> I don't understand what the first one means. How would you then use a new dataset if it's not a 'default' dataset?
Gregory Williams: I don't understand what the first one means. How would you then use a new dataset if it's not a 'default' dataset? ←
14:26:03 <kasei> q+ to clarify datasets vs. SD
Gregory Williams: q+ to clarify datasets vs. SD ←
14:26:06 <AndyS> LeeF: We do not provide a lifecycle for datasets
Lee Feigenbaum: We do not provide a lifecycle for datasets ←
14:26:09 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
14:26:09 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask why point 2 isn't always covered
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask why point 2 isn't always covered ←
14:27:02 <AndyS> Leigh may have a model of a set of graphs that can be assembled in datasets
Leigh may have a model of a set of graphs that can be assembled in datasets ←
14:27:23 <LeeF> ack kasei
Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei ←
14:27:23 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to clarify datasets vs. SD
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, you wanted to clarify datasets vs. SD ←
14:27:54 <AndyS> Who's handling the comment?
Who's handling the comment? ←
14:29:20 <AndyS> Thread for LD-3
Thread for LD-3 ←
14:30:52 <AndyS> leeF: advice to Chime that the request isn't clear
Lee Feigenbaum: advice to Chime that the request isn't clear ←
14:31:19 <LeeF> AndyS: work in RDF WG on quads may enable Leigh's request in the future
Andy Seaborne: work in RDF WG on quads may enable Leigh's request in the future [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:31:21 <AndyS> AndyS: Some work in RDF-WG may impact this.
Andy Seaborne: Some work in RDF-WG may impact this. ←
14:31:39 <AndyS> LeeF: will follow up with Chime.
Lee Feigenbaum: will follow up with Chime. ←
14:32:00 <AndyS> Topic: D-entailment canonicalization issue
14:32:41 <AndyS> Birte: problem is that there are multiple lexical forms for the same value.
Birte Glimm: problem is that there are multiple lexical forms for the same value. ←
14:33:10 <AndyS> ... no specification as to whether canonicalization should be done.
... no specification as to whether canonicalization should be done. ←
14:33:36 <AndyS> ... if no canonicalization done, may get multiple answers for same value.
... if no canonicalization done, may get multiple answers for same value. ←
14:34:05 <AndyS> ... and also issue as to which datatypes are supported.
... and also issue as to which datatypes are supported. ←
14:34:26 <AndyS> LeeF: What is state of the art?
Lee Feigenbaum: What is state of the art? ←
14:34:30 <SteveH> silence?
Steve Harris: silence? ←
14:35:07 <AndyS> Birte: XSD numerical datatypes common
Birte Glimm: XSD numerical datatypes common ←
14:36:11 <LeeF> AndyS: what about overlapping value spaces of decimal and double?
Andy Seaborne: what about overlapping value spaces of decimal and double? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:36:21 <LeeF> bglimm: XSD says that the value spaces are disjoint
Birte Glimm: XSD says that the value spaces are disjoint [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:36:44 <AndyS> LeeF: What are the options?
Lee Feigenbaum: What are the options? ←
14:37:00 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x0fec6340
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x0fec6340 ←
14:37:40 <LeeF> bglimm: 1) remove D-entailment 2) require canonicalization and identify a set of datatypes
Birte Glimm: 1) remove D-entailment 2) require canonicalization and identify a set of datatypes [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:37:44 <AndyS> Birte: (1) remove d-entailment (2) require canonicalization + some datatypes (3) no changes to doc
Birte Glimm: (1) remove d-entailment (2) require canonicalization + some datatypes (3) no changes to doc ←
14:37:45 <LeeF> AndyS: a fixed set of datatypes?
Andy Seaborne: a fixed set of datatypes? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:37:49 <LeeF> bglimm: no could be extended
Birte Glimm: no could be extended [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:39:16 <MattPerry> I would vote for option 2
Matthew Perry: I would vote for option 2 ←
14:40:55 <MattPerry> Oracle does it for most xsd types
Matthew Perry: Oracle does it for most xsd types ←
14:41:23 <MattPerry> numeric, date, boolean, string
Matthew Perry: numeric, date, boolean, string ←
14:42:23 <bglimm> OWL 2 doesn't support xsd:date, just xsd:dateTime & xsd:dateTimeStamp
Birte Glimm: OWL 2 doesn't support xsd:date, just xsd:dateTime & xsd:dateTimeStamp ←
14:42:54 <AndyS> What's dateTimeStamp?
What's dateTimeStamp? ←
14:43:20 <AndyS> Canonicalization is done by a few systems - they do not claim D-ent
Canonicalization is done by a few systems - they do not claim D-ent ←
14:43:22 <bglimm> I would have to look it up
Birte Glimm: I would have to look it up ←
14:43:53 <MattPerry> Same at Oracle, we don't say anything about D-entailment
Matthew Perry: Same at Oracle, we don't say anything about D-entailment ←
14:44:16 <MattPerry> just canonicalization
Matthew Perry: just canonicalization ←
14:44:18 <AndyS> AndyS: e.g. <s> <p> 1 . <s> <p> 01 .
Andy Seaborne: e.g. <s> <p> 1 . <s> <p> 01 . ←
14:44:56 <AndyS> Birte: one triple counts for query answers
Birte Glimm: one triple counts for query answers ←
14:45:27 <bglimm> D-Entailment includes also RDFS Entailment
Birte Glimm: D-Entailment includes also RDFS Entailment ←
14:45:55 <AndyS> LeeF; D-ent only of interest to systems that do not canonicalize.
LeeF; D-ent only of interest to systems that do not canonicalize. ←
14:46:04 <AndyS> .. any such systems?
.. any such systems? ←
14:46:38 <AndyS> ... now understand better. Take one week to survey and if too few, remove section.
... now understand better. Take one week to survey and if too few, remove section. ←
14:46:45 <MattPerry> That's fine
Matthew Perry: That's fine ←
14:47:06 <AndyS> AndyS: Acceptable.
Andy Seaborne: Acceptable. ←
14:47:22 <AndyS> LeeF: any other business?
Lee Feigenbaum: any other business? ←
14:47:41 <AndyS> AndyS: tests?
Andy Seaborne: tests? ←
14:48:12 <AndyS> LeeF: some pending - maybe a "tests telecon" - some open actions on checking and extending tests.
Lee Feigenbaum: some pending - maybe a "tests telecon" - some open actions on checking and extending tests. ←
14:49:01 <AndyS> LeeF: Repeat for encouragement - checking does not take too long.
Lee Feigenbaum: Repeat for encouragement - checking does not take too long. ←
14:50:30 <AndyS> LeeF: Semtech June seems a bit late for a F2F
Lee Feigenbaum: Semtech June seems a bit late for a F2F ←
14:50:56 <AndyS> ... could get together for impl report etc as we might be in CR
... could get together for impl report etc as we might be in CR ←
14:51:17 <MattPerry> bye
Matthew Perry: bye ←
14:51:18 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
ADJOURNED ←
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