14:54:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/08-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/08-sparql-irc ←
14:54:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:54:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
14:54:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes ←
14:54:49 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:54:49 <trackbot> Date: 08 March 2011
14:54:51 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
14:54:51 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes ←
14:54:53 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:55:02 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-03-08
14:55:13 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
14:55:17 <LeeF> Scribenick: pgearon
(Scribe set to Paul Gearon)
14:55:20 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
14:56:54 <NickH> Zakim, ??P7 is me
Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, ??P7 is me ←
14:56:54 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it ←
14:57:18 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
14:57:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:57:36 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
14:57:36 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:57:42 <Zakim> +NicoM
Zakim IRC Bot: +NicoM ←
14:57:52 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
14:58:43 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me ←
14:58:43 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted ←
14:59:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:59:57 <SteveH> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
14:59:57 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
15:00:10 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:00:20 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
15:00:48 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.368.aaaa ←
15:00:54 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.368.aaaa is me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, +1.216.368.aaaa is me ←
15:00:54 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +chimezie; got it ←
15:01:13 <Zakim> +MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry ←
15:01:43 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:01:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see NickH, LeeF, AndyS, NicoM, kasei (muted), SteveH, Sandro, pgearon, chimezie, MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see NickH, LeeF, AndyS, NicoM, kasei (muted), SteveH, Sandro, pgearon, chimezie, MattPerry ←
15:02:25 <LeeF> topic: Admin
15:02:26 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-03-01
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-03-01 ←
15:03:02 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-03-01
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-03-01 ←
15:03:13 <LeeF> Next regular meeting: 2011-03-15 @ 14:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Andy S) NOTE DIFFERENT TIME FOR NON-US LOCATIONS
Lee Feigenbaum: Next regular meeting: 2011-03-15 @ 14:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Andy S) NOTE DIFFERENT TIME FOR NON-US LOCATIONS ←
15:05:31 <LeeF> topic: To Last Call
15:06:33 <LeeF> bglimm, we are wondering if you intend to look at the formal section of SPARQL Query when you have a chance?
Lee Feigenbaum: bglimm, we are wondering if you intend to look at the formal section of SPARQL Query when you have a chance? ←
15:07:04 <pgearon> SteveH: Query in the same state as last time
Steve Harris: Query in the same state as last time ←
15:07:12 <Zakim> +bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm ←
15:07:25 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me ←
15:07:25 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should now be muted ←
15:08:11 <pgearon> bglimm: will still have a look at the formal section soon
Birte Glimm: will still have a look at the formal section soon ←
15:08:56 <pgearon> Not much happened. The main thing still outstanding is the BNode issue
Not much happened. The main thing still outstanding is the BNode issue ←
15:09:11 <pgearon> If there's anything else that needs doing, then someone should point it out
If there's anything else that needs doing, then someone should point it out ←
15:09:32 <pgearon> I was under the impression that all outstanding issues were handled (except test data)
I was under the impression that all outstanding issues were handled (except test data) ←
15:09:37 <kasei> right
Gregory Williams: right ←
15:10:18 <pgearon> for AndyS... That was a few weeks ago now, so my memory isn't clear, but I think so yes
for AndyS... That was a few weeks ago now, so my memory isn't clear, but I think so yes ←
15:11:04 <pgearon> LeeF: AndyS and kasei to be asked to review Update at their convenience
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS and kasei to be asked to review Update at their convenience ←
15:11:17 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:11:17 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:11:58 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/Overview2.xml
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/Overview2.xml ←
15:12:42 <pgearon> LeeF: some progress for "Protocol"
Lee Feigenbaum: some progress for "Protocol" ←
15:12:54 <kasei> Zakim, unmute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:12:54 <Zakim> kasei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should no longer be muted ←
15:13:10 <pgearon> topic: Service Description
15:13:55 <LeeF> "Add link to discussion on empty graphs in the Update document (when such a section exists) "
Lee Feigenbaum: "Add link to discussion on empty graphs in the Update document (when such a section exists) " ←
15:14:47 <pgearon> for LeeF: no, I wasn't
for LeeF: no, I wasn't ←
15:15:34 <pgearon> kasei: service description describes dropping empty graphs
Gregory Williams: service description describes dropping empty graphs ←
15:16:00 <pgearon> kasei: supporting empty graphs
Gregory Williams: supporting empty graphs ←
15:16:11 <pgearon> LeeF: this needs to have some reference in the Update document
Lee Feigenbaum: this needs to have some reference in the Update document ←
15:16:36 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#graphUpdate
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#graphUpdate ←
15:17:21 <pgearon> kasei: Update doc describes dropping graphs. Not clear from this description if it describes supporting empty graphs
Gregory Williams: Update doc describes dropping graphs. Not clear from this description if it describes supporting empty graphs ←
15:17:58 <pgearon> LeeF: Update may not need to say what is supported in a store. Service description can describe this
Lee Feigenbaum: Update may not need to say what is supported in a store. Service description can describe this ←
15:18:59 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#sd-emptygraphs
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#sd-emptygraphs ←
15:19:14 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to propose text for SD document explaining 3.4.7 sd:EmptyGraphs
ACTION: Lee to propose text for SD document explaining 3.4.7 sd:EmptyGraphs ←
15:19:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-406 - Propose text for SD document explaining 3.4.7 sd:EmptyGraphs [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-03-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-406 - Propose text for SD document explaining 3.4.7 sd:EmptyGraphs [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-03-15]. ←
15:19:43 <pgearon> In the DROP section I was trying to describe how a store would behave in the 2 situations: 1. supporting empty graphs. 2. Not recording empty graphs. I tried hard not to commit to saying what should/should not be supported
In the DROP section I was trying to describe how a store would behave in the 2 situations: 1. supporting empty graphs. 2. Not recording empty graphs. I tried hard not to commit to saying what should/should not be supported ←
15:20:09 <LeeF> pgearon, thanks, I'll take a look at that too
Lee Feigenbaum: pgearon, thanks, I'll take a look at that too ←
15:20:28 <pgearon> kasei: would like someone to glance at conformance section for service description
Gregory Williams: would like someone to glance at conformance section for service description ←
15:21:16 <pgearon> kasei: conformance section says, "must include one triple". AndyS would like this to say, "must include at least one triple"
Gregory Williams: conformance section says, "must include one triple". AndyS would like this to say, "must include at least one triple" ←
15:21:23 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to change conformance section in SD to refer to including "at least" one triple...
ACTION: Greg to change conformance section in SD to refer to including "at least" one triple... ←
15:21:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-407 - Change conformance section in SD to refer to including "at least" one triple... [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-03-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-407 - Change conformance section in SD to refer to including "at least" one triple... [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-03-15]. ←
15:21:24 <SteveH> +1 to that
Steve Harris: +1 to that ←
15:21:33 <LeeF> ACTION: Andy to look over current conformance section in service description modulo "at least" change from ACTION-407
ACTION: Andy to look over current conformance section in service description modulo "at least" change from ACTION-407 ←
15:21:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-408 - Look over current conformance section in service description modulo "at least" change from ACTION-407 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-03-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-408 - Look over current conformance section in service description modulo "at least" change from ACTION-407 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-03-15]. ←
15:21:56 <pgearon> topic: HTTP protocol document
15:21:59 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me ←
15:21:59 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted ←
15:22:11 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:22:11 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should no longer be muted ←
15:22:57 <pgearon> LeeF: comments on relationship to service description. Also comment from Leigh Dodds with other operations that might be included
Lee Feigenbaum: comments on relationship to service description. Also comment from Leigh Dodds with other operations that might be included ←
15:23:29 <pgearon> chimezie: Thinks that operations in POST are beyond scope, but we should have this discussion
Chimezie Ogbuji: Thinks that operations in POST are beyond scope, but we should have this discussion ←
15:23:47 <pgearon> LeeF: will come back to new operations
Lee Feigenbaum: will come back to new operations ←
15:24:05 <pgearon> LeeF: SteveH still has pending review on this doc
Lee Feigenbaum: SteveH still has pending review on this doc ←
15:24:18 <pgearon> LeeF: Entailment document
Lee Feigenbaum: Entailment document ←
15:24:34 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:24:34 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
15:24:53 <pgearon> LeeF: received review from Jay. Should mark this off on Wiki page. Still waiting on review from Clark and Parsia
Lee Feigenbaum: received review from Jay. Should mark this off on Wiki page. Still waiting on review from Clark and Parsia ←
15:25:29 <pgearon> LeeF: to bglimm, should we discuss D-entailment today?
Lee Feigenbaum: to bglimm, should we discuss D-entailment today? ←
15:26:29 <pgearon> LeeF: JSON doc waiting for reviewers to have some time
Lee Feigenbaum: JSON doc waiting for reviewers to have some time ←
15:26:33 <bglimm> I reminded C&P (talked o Hector) and he'll try to push Evren who is doing the review
Birte Glimm: I reminded C&P (talked o Hector) and he'll try to push Evren who is doing the review ←
15:26:36 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me ←
15:26:36 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should now be muted ←
15:27:40 <pgearon> LeeF: can people please consider tests as we get closer to LC
Lee Feigenbaum: can people please consider tests as we get closer to LC ←
15:28:17 <pgearon> LeeF: also need to review existing tests, as these have taken a back seat to editorial issues recently
Lee Feigenbaum: also need to review existing tests, as these have taken a back seat to editorial issues recently ←
15:28:19 <AndyS> 405 is done
Andy Seaborne: 405 is done ←
15:28:34 <bglimm> I think I had one, which I completed, but can't remember what it was
Birte Glimm: I think I had one, which I completed, but can't remember what it was ←
15:28:42 <AndyS> .. that was 405.
Andy Seaborne: .. that was 405. ←
15:28:50 <bglimm> I'll search for it
Birte Glimm: I'll search for it ←
15:28:56 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-405
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-405 ←
15:28:57 <trackbot> ACTION-405 Draft xml for revised Extending BGP matching section for query closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-405 Draft xml for revised Extending BGP matching section for query closed ←
15:28:58 <kasei> LeeF, I've completed 396 and 403
Gregory Williams: LeeF, I've completed 396 and 403 ←
15:28:59 <bglimm> Thans
Birte Glimm: Thanks ←
15:29:07 <bglimm> s/Thans/Thanks/
15:29:14 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-396
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-396 ←
15:29:14 <trackbot> ACTION-396 Contact chime on Dataset Update Protocol issue closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-396 Contact chime on Dataset Update Protocol issue closed ←
15:29:28 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-403
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-403 ←
15:29:28 <trackbot> ACTION-403 Answer to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0369.html with counterexample to JB-2 closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-403 Answer to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0369.html with counterexample to JB-2 closed ←
15:29:37 <bglimm> 398 I also did
Birte Glimm: 398 I also did ←
15:29:47 <bglimm> prepare test cases for approval
Birte Glimm: prepare test cases for approval ←
15:29:51 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-398
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-398 ←
15:29:51 <trackbot> ACTION-398 Prepare entailment tests for next week for approval closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-398 Prepare entailment tests for next week for approval closed ←
15:29:57 <bglimm> Axel looked at them too
Birte Glimm: Axel looked at them too ←
15:30:06 <LeeF> topic: Blank nodes in DELETE templates
15:30:08 <pgearon> LeeF: Next topic. Blank nodes in DELETE templates
Lee Feigenbaum: Next topic. Blank nodes in DELETE templates ←
15:31:20 <pgearon> LeeF: resolution was for blank nodes to represent wildcards when deleting
Lee Feigenbaum: resolution was for blank nodes to represent wildcards when deleting ←
15:31:39 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0409.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0409.html ←
15:31:44 <pgearon> LeeF: recently SteveH, AndyS, pgearon found issues around implementation
Lee Feigenbaum: recently SteveH, AndyS, pgearon found issues around implementation ←
15:32:13 <SteveH> andy didn't capture my preference which was make it an error
Steve Harris: andy didn't capture my preference which was make it an error ←
15:32:14 <pgearon> LeeF: AndyS also did work on how to delete lists without this "shortcut"
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS also did work on how to delete lists without this "shortcut" ←
15:32:31 <LeeF> PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Update forbids blank nodes in DELETE templates
PROPOSED: SPARQL 1.1 Update forbids blank nodes in DELETE templates ←
15:33:07 <SteveH> seconded
Steve Harris: seconded ←
15:33:10 <bglimm> seconded
Birte Glimm: seconded ←
15:33:11 <pgearon> LeeF: does anyone have anything further to discuss on this, or serious concerns?
Lee Feigenbaum: does anyone have anything further to discuss on this, or serious concerns? ←
15:33:26 <LeeF> RESOLVED: SPARQL 1.1 Update forbids blank nodes in DELETE templates
RESOLVED: SPARQL 1.1 Update forbids blank nodes in DELETE templates ←
15:33:43 <pgearon> Sure
Sure ←
15:34:00 <pgearon> I'll change it either way, but an action helps track it
I'll change it either way, but an action helps track it ←
15:34:02 <LeeF> ACTION: Paul to edit Update document to note that blank nodes in DELETE templates are an error
ACTION: Paul to edit Update document to note that blank nodes in DELETE templates are an error ←
15:34:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-409 - Edit Update document to note that blank nodes in DELETE templates are an error [on Paul Gearon - due 2011-03-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-409 - Edit Update document to note that blank nodes in DELETE templates are an error [on Paul Gearon - due 2011-03-15]. ←
15:34:20 <LeeF> topic: Dataset protocol & service description
15:35:14 <pgearon> LeeF: service description initially conceived as description of features and capabilities of endpoints supporting SPARQL protocol
Lee Feigenbaum: service description initially conceived as description of features and capabilities of endpoints supporting SPARQL protocol ←
15:35:45 <pgearon> LeeF: scope expanded to description of things like endpoint URLs
Lee Feigenbaum: scope expanded to description of things like endpoint URLs ←
15:36:45 <pgearon> LeeF: do we need additions to service description to include dataset protocol. Preference is to not make large changes
Lee Feigenbaum: do we need additions to service description to include dataset protocol. Preference is to not make large changes ←
15:36:49 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:36:49 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should no longer be muted ←
15:37:15 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0013.html
Chimezie Ogbuji: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0013.html ←
15:37:19 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jan/0029.html
Chimezie Ogbuji: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jan/0029.html ←
15:37:23 <pgearon> chimezie: main comments are from Leigh Dodds and Rob Vesse
Chimezie Ogbuji: main comments are from Leigh Dodds and Rob Vesse ←
15:37:38 <pgearon> chimezie: Leigh wants to do GET/PUT on protocol
Chimezie Ogbuji: Leigh wants to do GET/PUT on graph store ←
15:37:47 <LeeF> s/protocol/graph store
15:38:30 <LeeF> Leigh asks: how do you find the URL to POST new graphs to?
Lee Feigenbaum: Leigh asks: how do you find the URL to POST new graphs to? ←
15:38:47 <pgearon> chimezie: Leigh has question on graph store being a dataset, but don't think it is
Chimezie Ogbuji: Leigh has question on graph store being a dataset, but don't think it is ←
15:39:05 <LeeF> Leigh would also want to implement the dataset protocol without exposing SPARQL query or SPARQL update endpoints, but SD document assumes that you're talking about SPARQL protocol & not dataset protocol
Lee Feigenbaum: Leigh would also want to implement the dataset protocol without exposing SPARQL query or SPARQL update endpoints, but SD document assumes that you're talking about SPARQL protocol & not dataset protocol ←
15:39:20 <LeeF> Rob V says similar comments
Lee Feigenbaum: Rob V says similar comments ←
15:40:01 <LeeF> Greg proposed including a RESTDataset class, but not more substantive changes at this time
Lee Feigenbaum: Greg proposed including a RESTDataset class, but not more substantive changes at this time ←
15:40:06 <Zakim> -NickH
Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH ←
15:40:26 <LeeF> chimezie: there's currently an informative section in dataset protocol document talking about relationship with SD
Chimezie Ogbuji: there's currently an informative section in dataset protocol document talking about relationship with SD [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:40:33 <chimezie> sd:RESTDataset
Souripriya Das: RESTDataset [ Scribe Assist by Chimezie Ogbuji ] ←
15:40:33 <LeeF> ... could introduce vocabulary there
Lee Feigenbaum: ... could introduce vocabulary there ←
15:40:39 <chimezie> sd:defaultGraphStoreDescription
Souripriya Das: defaultGraphStoreDescription [ Scribe Assist by Chimezie Ogbuji ] ←
15:41:20 <kasei> I don't understand what sd:defaultGraphStoreDescription would mean.
Gregory Williams: I don't understand what sd:defaultGraphStoreDescription would mean. ←
15:41:26 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#http-option
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/#http-option ←
15:41:39 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
15:41:46 <NickH> Zakim, ??P7 is me
Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, ??P7 is me ←
15:41:46 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it ←
15:42:05 <LeeF> q+ to ask if it really needs to support update
Lee Feigenbaum: q+ to ask if it really needs to support update ←
15:42:44 <pgearon> chimezie: current relationship between services and dataset in the service desc doc
Chimezie Ogbuji: current relationship between services and dataset in the service desc doc ←
15:42:52 <chimezie> sd:defaultDatasetDescription
Souripriya Das: defaultDatasetDescription [ Scribe Assist by Chimezie Ogbuji ] ←
15:43:07 <pgearon> chimezie: can't reuse this term because the range is Dataset
Chimezie Ogbuji: can't reuse this term because the range is Dataset ←
15:43:09 <LeeF> the range of that term is sd:Dataset
Lee Feigenbaum: the range of that term is sd:Dataset ←
15:43:25 <pgearon> chimezie: my understanding is that a graph store is not a dataset
Chimezie Ogbuji: my understanding is that a graph store is not a dataset ←
15:43:28 <AndyS> q+ to talk about g-boxes and g-snaps
Andy Seaborne: q+ to talk about g-boxes and g-snaps ←
15:43:28 <kasei> Zakim, unmute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:43:30 <Zakim> kasei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should no longer be muted ←
15:43:38 <pgearon> chimezie: new term would be the same thing, but relates service to a graph store instead
Chimezie Ogbuji: new term would be the same thing, but relates service to a graph store instead ←
15:43:51 <pgearon> LeeF: do we need to define a graph store class?
Lee Feigenbaum: do we need to define a graph store class? ←
15:44:35 <LeeF> chimezie: the object of the sd:defaultGraphStoreDescription would be the URL against which dataset protocol operations should be sent
Chimezie Ogbuji: the object of the sd:defaultGraphStoreDescription would be the URL against which dataset protocol operations should be sent [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:44:52 <LeeF> kasei: but it's the dataset protocol, not the graph store protocol?
Gregory Williams: but it's the dataset protocol, not the graph store protocol? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:45:14 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
15:46:01 <LeeF> what about sd:datasetProtocolLocation or something ?
Lee Feigenbaum: what about sd:datasetProtocolLocation or something ? ←
15:46:02 <sandro> q+ to say I think a dataset can be mutable even if a graph isn't -- in changing it, you're changing what graphs are in it
Sandro Hawke: q+ to say I think a dataset can be mutable even if a graph isn't -- in changing it, you're changing what graphs are in it ←
15:46:15 <pgearon> chimezie: if we're going to say that a graph store is not a dataset then don't know if protocol or SD docs are the place to say that
Chimezie Ogbuji: if we're going to say that a graph store is not a dataset then don't know if protocol or SD docs are the place to say that ←
15:46:25 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
15:46:25 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to talk about g-boxes and g-snaps
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to talk about g-boxes and g-snaps ←
15:47:23 <sandro> (but datasets in SPARQL *do* change, right?)
Sandro Hawke: (but datasets in SPARQL *do* change, right?) ←
15:47:58 <kasei> isn't the dataset protocol about moving from one dataset to another?
Gregory Williams: isn't the dataset protocol about moving from one dataset to another? ←
15:48:05 <LeeF> sandro: don't all existing implementations of SPARQL 1.0 involve datasets changing?
Sandro Hawke: don't all existing implementations of SPARQL 1.0 involve datasets changing? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:48:41 <LeeF> AndyS: it's not the dataset which is changing, it's what the service is currently supporting that is changing
Andy Seaborne: it's not the dataset which is changing, it's what the service is currently supporting that is changing [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:48:56 <LeeF> sandro: do people conceptualize this as replacing one dataset from another ?
Sandro Hawke: do people conceptualize this as replacing one dataset from another ? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:49:06 <chimezie> thread on mutability of datasets and graphs: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Oct/0038.html
Chimezie Ogbuji: thread on mutability of datasets and graphs: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Oct/0038.html ←
15:49:15 <LeeF> AndyS: not necessarily, but in the same way that people using a programming language think of sets as mutable, even though mathematical sets are immutable
Andy Seaborne: not necessarily, but in the same way that people using a programming language think of sets as mutable, even though mathematical sets are immutable [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:49:27 <LeeF> sandro: wonder if treating datasets as a mutable structure is a simple way to deal with this ?
Sandro Hawke: wonder if treating datasets as a mutable structure is a simple way to deal with this ? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:49:35 <LeeF> AndyS: we call the mutable structure a graph store
Andy Seaborne: we call the mutable structure a graph store [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:50:07 <LeeF> sandro: seems somewhat confusing to draw this distinction
Sandro Hawke: seems somewhat confusing to draw this distinction [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:50:15 <LeeF> AndyS: changing update document to remove term "graph store" would be a big change
Andy Seaborne: changing update document to remove term "graph store" would be a big change [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:51:22 <pgearon> AndyS: the slight trick is that we don't put datasets on the web. We put graphs on the web
Andy Seaborne: the slight trick is that we don't put datasets on the web. We put graphs on the web ←
15:51:37 <pgearon> AndyS: don't have a theory of datasets as computational objects
Andy Seaborne: don't have a theory of datasets as computational objects ←
15:51:40 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
15:52:21 <kasei> q+
Gregory Williams: q+ ←
15:52:25 <LeeF> AndyS: is it a dataset protocol?
Andy Seaborne: is it a dataset protocol? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:52:38 <Zakim> + +41.86.528.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +41.86.528.aabb ←
15:52:47 <bglimm> Zakim, +41.86.528.aabb is me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, +41.86.528.aabb is me ←
15:52:47 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it ←
15:52:58 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:52:58 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:53:19 <LeeF> ack kasei
Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei ←
15:53:25 <AndyS> q-
Andy Seaborne: q- ←
15:53:44 <LeeF> kasei: hesitant to split up definition of SD across multiple documents
Gregory Williams: hesitant to split up definition of SD across multiple documents [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:53:57 <LeeF> ... there's a lot of value to having it contained to one document
Lee Feigenbaum: ... there's a lot of value to having it contained to one document ←
15:54:28 <LeeF> kasei: would sd:defaultGraphStoreDescription be used in addition to sd:defaultDatasetDescription for services that implement both protocols?
Gregory Williams: would sd:defaultGraphStoreDescription be used in addition to sd:defaultDatasetDescription for services that implement both protocols? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:54:35 <LeeF> chimezie: the name probably isn't great
Chimezie Ogbuji: the name probably isn't great [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:54:47 <LeeF> chimezie: my intuition is that it would use both
Chimezie Ogbuji: my intuition is that it would use both [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:54:51 <sandro> q-
Sandro Hawke: q- ←
15:55:45 <LeeF> kasei: i thought we accomplish this already by typing an existing dataset as a RESTDataset
Gregory Williams: i thought we accomplish this already by typing an existing dataset as a RESTDataset [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:56:18 <LeeF> chimezie: we don't have an explicit axiom saying a RESTDataset is disjoint from a Dataset, but there's an implication that they are disjoint, so it would be confusing to use them in that way
Chimezie Ogbuji: we don't have an explicit axiom saying a RESTDataset is disjoint from a Dataset, but there's an implication that they are disjoint, so it would be confusing to use them in that way [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:56:37 <LeeF> kasei: we may run into problems because people are not going to understand that they're disjoint
Gregory Williams: we may run into problems because people are not going to understand that they're disjoint [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:56:53 <LeeF> kasei: i think of one as a mutable version of the other, or an access point to move from one dataset to the next
Gregory Williams: i think of one as a mutable version of the other, or an access point to move from one dataset to the next [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:57:28 <LeeF> chimezie: via Leigh's comments, the question is out there as to the relationship between a graph store and a dataset
Chimezie Ogbuji: via Leigh's comments, the question is out there as to the relationship between a graph store and a dataset [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
16:00:29 <LeeF> q-
Lee Feigenbaum: q- ←
16:02:03 <NickH> is it decided if a GET to a SPARQL endpoint returns the service description?
Nicholas Humfrey: is it decided if a GET to a SPARQL endpoint returns the service description? ←
16:02:15 <kasei> NickH, yes
Gregory Williams: NickH, yes ←
16:02:30 <Zakim> -chimezie
Zakim IRC Bot: -chimezie ←
16:02:32 <MattPerry> bye
Matthew Perry: bye ←
16:02:33 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
16:02:37 <Zakim> -NicoM
Zakim IRC Bot: -NicoM ←
16:02:40 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
16:02:42 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:02:43 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
16:02:43 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
16:02:45 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
16:02:49 <NickH> kasei: ok, thanks
Gregory Williams: ok, thanks [ Scribe Assist by Nicholas Humfrey ] ←
16:02:54 <Zakim> -NickH
Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH ←
16:02:59 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
16:03:09 <LeeF> LeeF: With chair hat on, I'm very tempted to say that given resource and experience constraints, that SD is only about SPARQL protocol and is unrelated to the dataset protocol
Lee Feigenbaum: With chair hat on, I'm very tempted to say that given resource and experience constraints, that SD is only about SPARQL protocol and is unrelated to the dataset protocol [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
16:03:38 <LeeF> NickH, yes, see http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#accessing
Lee Feigenbaum: NickH, yes, see http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml#accessing ←
16:03:55 <LeeF> pgearon, can you do the http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/ magic to generate the minutes, please?
Lee Feigenbaum: pgearon, can you do the http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/ magic to generate the minutes, please? ←
16:04:03 <pgearon> sure
sure ←
16:04:07 <LeeF> many thanks
Lee Feigenbaum: many thanks ←
16:06:44 <NickH> LeeF: thanks, just checking if that has been confirmed
Lee Feigenbaum: thanks, just checking if that has been confirmed [ Scribe Assist by Nicholas Humfrey ] ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2011-03-08 19:06:44 UTC by 'pgearon', comments: 'Added topics. Thanks to LeeF for picking up the slack on scribing'