14:53:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/01-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/01-sparql-irc ←
14:53:52 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, this will be sparql
Axel Polleres: Zakim, this will be sparql ←
14:53:52 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes ←
14:56:14 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
14:56:21 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
14:56:38 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P11 is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P11 is me ←
14:56:38 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
14:56:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:57:03 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me.
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me. ←
14:57:03 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:57:25 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
14:57:32 <Zakim> +corby
Zakim IRC Bot: +corby ←
14:57:38 <SteveH> AndyS, did you just say something?
Steve Harris: AndyS, did you just say something? ←
14:57:39 <NickH> zakim, ??P13 is me
Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, ??P13 is me ←
14:57:39 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it ←
14:58:06 <AndyS> Yes - did you hear anytghing? I can't hear you. skype testing service worked though.
Andy Seaborne: Yes - did you hear anytghing? I can't hear you. skype testing service worked though. ←
14:58:21 <SteveH> I'm muted, one sec
Steve Harris: I'm muted, one sec ←
14:58:43 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
14:58:48 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
14:58:58 <NickH> getting some echo
Nicholas Humfrey: getting some echo ←
15:00:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:00:49 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting
Axel Polleres: trackbot, start meeting ←
15:00:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
15:00:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
15:00:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now ←
15:00:54 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:00:54 <trackbot> Date: 01 March 2011
15:01:06 <cbuilara> zakim, IPcaller is me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, IPcaller is me ←
15:01:06 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller' ←
15:01:29 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:01:29 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
Zakim IRC Bot: I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted ←
15:01:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveH, AndyS, NickH, corby, kasei, pgearon, [IPcaller], AxelPolleres, Sandro, MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see SteveH, AndyS, NickH, corby, kasei, pgearon, [IPcaller], AxelPolleres, Sandro, MattPerry ←
15:01:35 <cbuilara> Zakim, IPcaller is me
Carlos Buil Aranda: Zakim, IPcaller is me ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cbuilara; got it ←
15:01:44 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, mute me ←
15:01:46 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: cbuilara should now be muted ←
15:02:14 <AxelPolleres> scribe: steveH
(Scribe set to Steve Harris)
15:02:21 <AxelPolleres> chair: Axel Polleres
15:02:35 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-03-01
15:02:53 <AxelPolleres> regrets: LeeF, Chime
15:03:12 <Zakim> +bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm ←
15:03:15 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
15:03:20 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:03:20 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:03:24 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-22
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-22 ←
15:03:59 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-22
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-02-22 ←
15:04:10 <AxelPolleres> topic: comments
15:04:32 <SteveH> Axel: I've updated the comments page, picked any additional comments found on list
Axel Polleres: I've updated the comments page, picked any additional comments found on list ←
15:04:48 <SteveH> ... have several things not assigned, 1 from Greg R, from 26th of Jan
... have several things not assigned, 1 from Greg R, from 26th of Jan ←
15:05:02 <SteveH> ... not sure if there was an overall answer
... not sure if there was an overall answer ←
15:05:10 <SteveH> ... Lee thinks he's ok with the answer
... Lee thinks he's ok with the answer ←
15:05:17 <SteveH> ... Axel to check with Lee
... Axel to check with Lee ←
15:05:42 <SteveH> ... next comment from Jeremy C. on Update, graph identification
... next comment from Jeremy C. on Update, graph identification ←
15:05:52 <SteveH> ... using URIs that are IRI
... using URIs that are IRI ←
15:06:03 <SteveH> ... I will ask Chime if noone else wants to comment
... I will ask Chime if noone else wants to comment ←
15:06:28 <SteveH> next, some comment on AVG() testcase from Jeen B
next, some comment on AVG() testcase from Jeen B ←
15:06:43 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0025.html
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0025.html ←
15:06:45 <SteveH> Axel: anybody voluneering?
Axel Polleres: anybody voluneering? ←
15:07:06 <SteveH> I guess I should, but I'm really busy
I guess I should, but I'm really busy ←
15:07:40 <SteveH> Axel: I'll put Steve's name on it
Axel Polleres: I'll put Steve's name on it ←
15:07:56 <SteveH> ... we should clear all the comments before going to last call
... we should clear all the comments before going to last call ←
15:08:05 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Steve to draft an answer for JB-4
ACTION: Steve to draft an answer for JB-4 ←
15:08:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-401 - Draft an answer for JB-4 [on Steve Harris - due 2011-03-08].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-401 - Draft an answer for JB-4 [on Steve Harris - due 2011-03-08]. ←
15:08:51 <SteveH> Axel: last comment from ???, I can take a look at that
Axel Polleres: last comment from ???, I can take a look at that ←
15:08:59 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to take care of RV-7
ACTION: Axel to take care of RV-7 ←
15:08:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-402 - Take care of RV-7 [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-03-08].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-402 - Take care of RV-7 [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-03-08]. ←
15:09:04 <SteveH> ??? = Rob V.
??? = Rob V. ←
15:09:04 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0024.html
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Feb/0024.html ←
15:09:14 <Zakim> +AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant ←
15:09:38 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:KK-7
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:KK-7 ←
15:09:59 <SteveH> Axel: one problem with comment from Jeen which we can't address yet
Axel Polleres: one problem with comment from Jeen which we can't address yet ←
15:10:07 <SteveH> ... there's a mail about it on list
... there's a mail about it on list ←
15:10:40 <SteveH> ... Jeen commented on MINUS v's NOT EXIST
... Jeen commented on MINUS v's NOT EXIST ←
15:10:44 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0369.html ... not exists vs. minus
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0369.html ... not exists vs. minus ←
15:10:53 <SteveH> ... don't know how to proceed there
... don't know how to proceed there ←
15:11:13 <kasei> that isn't true, though
Gregory Williams: that isn't true, though ←
15:11:16 <SteveH> ... Jeen says that MINUS is equiv. in all cases where it's not redundant
... Jeen says that MINUS is equiv. in all cases where it's not redundant ←
15:11:38 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
15:12:03 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:JB-2
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:JB-2 ←
15:12:16 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
15:12:24 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P11 is me
Zakim, ??P11 is me ←
15:12:24 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
15:12:52 <SteveH> kasei: Jeen posted it on his weblog before this comment, and I commented on the blog
Gregory Williams: Jeen posted it on his weblog before this comment, and I commented on the blog ←
15:13:28 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to answer to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0369.html with counterexample to JB-2
ACTION: greg to answer to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0369.html with counterexample to JB-2 ←
15:13:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-403 - Answer to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0369.html with counterexample to JB-2 [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-03-08].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-403 - Answer to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0369.html with counterexample to JB-2 [on Gregory Williams - due 2011-03-08]. ←
15:13:58 <AxelPolleres> Next regular meeting: 2011-03-08 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Paul Gearon)
Axel Polleres: Next regular meeting: 2011-03-08 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Paul Gearon) ←
15:14:18 <AxelPolleres> regrets for next week from me
Axel Polleres: regrets for next week from me ←
15:14:30 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: I will not be here but lee will be
Axel Polleres: I will not be here but lee will be ←
15:14:31 <OlivierCorby> regrets also
Olivier Corby: regrets also ←
15:14:40 <SteveH> ... geosparql has asked us for a review
... geosparql has asked us for a review ←
15:14:49 <AxelPolleres> topic: geosparql review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0343.html
15:15:05 <SteveH> MattPerry: we have a group of about 10, working on geosparql, it is straightforward, vocab + filter functions for SPARQL
Matthew Perry: we have a group of about 10, working on geosparql, it is straightforward, vocab + filter functions for SPARQL ←
15:15:30 <SteveH> ... in OGC they've had std. object models for geometry, takes on and created RDF vocab that does the same thing
... in OGC they've had std. object models for geometry, takes on and created RDF vocab that does the same thing ←
15:15:45 <SteveH> ... different classes for polygon,. point, line + dimensions and so on
... different classes for polygon,. point, line + dimensions and so on ←
15:16:07 <SteveH> ... also functions for objects, created analagous filter functions for them
... also functions for objects, created analagous filter functions for them ←
15:16:15 <SteveH> ... union intersection etc.
... union intersection etc. ←
15:16:24 <SteveH> ... translation of existing standard
... translation of existing standard ←
15:16:37 <SteveH> .... serialise these geometries in RDF, created datatypes
.... serialise these geometries in RDF, created datatypes ←
15:16:40 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2011/02/GeoSPARQL.pdf
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2011/02/GeoSPARQL.pdf ←
15:16:57 <SteveH> ... existing text based standards can be put in literals
... existing text based standards can be put in literals ←
15:17:23 <SteveH> ... use these literals as arguments to functions
... use these literals as arguments to functions ←
15:18:21 <cbuilara> I can do it, or ask anybody in my grpup
Carlos Buil Aranda: I can do it, or ask anybody in my grpup ←
15:18:25 <cbuilara> group
Carlos Buil Aranda: group ←
15:18:34 <cbuilara> zakim, unmunte me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, unmunte me ←
15:18:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmunte me', cbuilara
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'unmunte me', cbuilara ←
15:18:44 <cbuilara> zakim, unmunte me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, unmunte me ←
15:18:44 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmunte me', cbuilara
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'unmunte me', cbuilara ←
15:18:54 <cbuilara> zakim, unmute me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, unmute me ←
15:18:54 <Zakim> cbuilara should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: cbuilara should no longer be muted ←
15:19:19 <SteveH> cbuilara: people in my research group working on GML(?)
Carlos Buil Aranda: people in my research group working on GML(?) ←
15:19:25 <SteveH> ... it would be worth them looking at it
... it would be worth them looking at it ←
15:19:47 <SteveH> ... I will send a review
... I will send a review ←
15:19:54 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: carlos to look in his group� for a review for GeoSPARQL and send it to us
ACTION: carlos to look in his group� for a review for GeoSPARQL and send it to us ←
15:19:54 <trackbot> Could not create new action (failed to parse response from server) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Could not create new action (failed to parse response from server) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened. ←
15:19:54 <trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: local variable 'd' referenced before assignment) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: local variable 'd' referenced before assignment) - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened. ←
15:20:16 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: to last call...
Axel Polleres: to last call... ←
15:20:23 <SteveH> ... take a look at status of drafts
... take a look at status of drafts ←
15:20:24 <AxelPolleres> topic: to last call
15:20:25 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call ←
15:20:25 <AxelPolleres> \
Axel Polleres: \ ←
15:20:43 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:20:43 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
15:21:09 <bglimm> I had a few comments on the revised sections
Birte Glimm: I had a few comments on the revised sections ←
15:22:43 <SteveH> AndyS: there are 12 markers in doc for things to do, all editorial - Steve can you look at the eval of ToList, not sure it can be removed
Andy Seaborne: there are 12 markers in doc for things to do, all editorial - Steve can you look at the eval of ToList, not sure it can be removed ←
15:22:55 <SteveH> ... if people are happy to comment in that state we can go ahead
... if people are happy to comment in that state we can go ahead ←
15:23:04 <AxelPolleres> andy: 12 editorial markers in the� doc at the moment... apart from that, we can go ahead with review
Andy Seaborne: 12 editorial markers in the� doc at the moment... apart from that, we can go ahead with review [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
15:23:42 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: we have reviewers assigned, so can turn to BGP matching
Axel Polleres: we have reviewers assigned, so can turn to BGP matching ←
15:23:53 <AxelPolleres> BGP matching extensions rewording suggestions by Birte http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0276.html
Axel Polleres: BGP matching extensions rewording suggestions by Birte http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0276.html ←
15:24:02 <SteveH> ... has rewording suggestions
... has rewording suggestions ←
15:24:31 <SteveH> bglimm: the main problem is that terminology is outdated, uses old terminology
Birte Glimm: the main problem is that terminology is outdated, uses old terminology ←
15:24:47 <SteveH> ... uses different word from rest of text, not been updated since defintions were tested
... uses different word from rest of text, not been updated since defintions were tested ←
15:24:56 <SteveH> ... would like it updated
... would like it updated ←
15:25:17 <SteveH> ... the only thing I suggest is to require that solutions are uniquely satisfied
... the only thing I suggest is to require that solutions are uniquely satisfied ←
15:25:26 <SteveH> ... I think it's quite important
... I think it's quite important ←
15:25:41 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
15:25:44 <SteveH> ... doesn't really change any of the semantics
... doesn't really change any of the semantics ←
15:26:06 <SteveH> AndyS: looked through the text, it looked pretty good, was planning on putting that text in
Andy Seaborne: looked through the text, it looked pretty good, was planning on putting that text in ←
15:26:16 <SteveH> ... there's a couple of points I want to check
... there's a couple of points I want to check ←
15:26:36 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: one point, reformulation of cond. 1, sent to list
Axel Polleres: one point, reformulation of cond. 1, sent to list ←
15:27:08 <SteveH> [ discussion of uniquely specified issues ]
[ discussion of uniquely (up to RDF graph equivalence) specified issues ] ←
15:27:41 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
15:27:53 <AxelPolleres> s/uniquely/uniquely (up to RDF graph equivalence)/ ?
15:27:54 <SteveH> sorry, something wrong with the sip connection :(
sorry, something wrong with the sip connection :( ←
15:28:13 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
15:28:19 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P11 is me
Zakim, ??P11 is me ←
15:28:19 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
15:29:02 <SteveH> q+
q+ ←
15:29:44 <SteveH> q-
q- ←
15:29:46 <pgearon> I can try
Paul Gearon: I can try ←
15:30:01 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: no action here
Axel Polleres: no action here ←
15:31:23 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Birte to draft xml for revised Extending BGP matching section for query
ACTION: Birte to draft xml for revised Extending BGP matching section for query ←
15:31:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-405 - Draft xml for revised Extending BGP matching section for query [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-03-08].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-405 - Draft xml for revised Extending BGP matching section for query [on Birte Glimm - due 2011-03-08]. ←
15:31:38 <SteveH> ... that's all for query
... that's all for query ←
15:31:55 <SteveH> ... for update, any news? lots of discussion, will come to that later
... for update, any news? lots of discussion, will come to that later ←
15:32:10 <SteveH> ... service descirption, grega, can you give update
... service descirption, grega, can you give update ←
15:32:11 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:32:11 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:32:29 <SteveH> kasei: I've added a couple of things to the SD section, biggest thing is relationship with dataset protocol
Gregory Williams: I've added a couple of things to the SD section, biggest thing is relationship with dataset protocol ←
15:33:14 <SteveH> ... said I'd take it to email, suggested simple change to SD vocab which will be sufficient to describe a dataset in terms of the dataset protocol
... said I'd take it to email, suggested simple change to SD vocab which will be sufficient to describe a dataset in terms of the dataset protocol ←
15:33:32 <SteveH> ... if its goes beyond that I'm going to push back, to avoid getting into out of scope things
... if its goes beyond that I'm going to push back, to avoid getting into out of scope things ←
15:33:37 <SteveH> ... waiting on more discussionm
... waiting on more discussionm ←
15:33:57 <SteveH> ... been discussing conformance language with Andy
... been discussing conformance language with Andy ←
15:34:16 <SteveH> ... I'm happy discussing on email
... I'm happy discussing on email ←
15:35:07 <SteveH> I owe a review on {something}
I owe a review on {something} ←
15:35:10 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:35:10 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
15:35:23 <SteveH> bglimm: waiting for a review on entailment
Birte Glimm: waiting for a review on entailment ←
15:35:57 <SteveH> ???: the parital review that was sent out is the final one
Matthew Perry: the parital review that was sent out is the final one ←
15:36:05 <SteveH> bglimm: I saw one review
Birte Glimm: I saw one review ←
15:36:11 <AxelPolleres> s/???/Matt/
15:36:34 <SteveH> bglimm: connonicalisation issue
Birte Glimm: connonicalisation issue ←
15:36:49 <SteveH> ... only define d-entailment within some limit
... only define d-entailment within some limit ←
15:37:05 <SteveH> ... not happy, but it's what we decided, not sure if we want to revisit
... not happy, but it's what we decided, not sure if we want to revisit ←
15:37:28 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: I guess at the moment we just go on, what's your suggestion
Axel Polleres: I guess at the moment we just go on, what's your suggestion ←
15:37:46 <SteveH> bglimm: I would just remove the entailment, it's not nice that systems behave differently
Birte Glimm: I would just remove the entailment, it's not nice that systems behave differently ←
15:38:09 <SteveH> ... SPARQL doesn't specify this behaviour, so maybe it's not up to the entailments regimes
... SPARQL doesn't specify this behaviour, so maybe it's not up to the entailments regimes ←
15:38:48 <SteveH> ... you can only return ansers that occur in the graph, but that depends on parsing process
... you can only return ansers that occur in the graph, but that depends on parsing process ←
15:39:04 <SteveH> ... might have two different values, so might return two answers
... might have two different values, so might return two answers ←
15:39:22 <AxelPolleres> issue different answers and also differenct cardinalities implied.
Axel Polleres: issue different answers and also differenct cardinalities implied. ←
15:39:23 <SteveH> ... can get different cardinality
... can get different cardinality ←
15:39:40 <SteveH> ... do you want to require canonicalisation - seems to be the only way to solve this problem
... do you want to require canonicalisation - seems to be the only way to solve this problem ←
15:40:24 <SteveH> bglimm will add a note to the document
bglimm will add a note to the document ←
15:40:27 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the call?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:40:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, NickH, corby, kasei, pgearon, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, Sandro, MattPerry, bglimm, AlexPassant, SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, NickH, corby, kasei, pgearon, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, Sandro, MattPerry, bglimm, AlexPassant, SteveH ←
15:40:32 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
15:40:56 <SteveH> cbuilara: proposed semantics of service algebra, difficult to understand what I was proposing in email, I will follow your comments
Carlos Buil Aranda: proposed semantics of service algebra, difficult to understand what I was proposing in email, I will follow your comments ←
15:41:16 <SteveH> ... it is almost finished I think, will be finished this/next week
... it is almost finished I think, will be finished this/next week ←
15:41:44 <SteveH> formal update semantics]
formal update semantics] ←
15:41:51 <AxelPolleres> topic: Update Formal Semantics (incl. bnodes as DELETE-wildcards)
15:41:53 <SteveH> particularly bnodes as wildcards
particularly bnodes as wildcards ←
15:41:59 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
Carlos Buil Aranda: zakim, mute me ←
15:41:59 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: cbuilara should now be muted ←
15:42:25 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: summary - there were concerns about update semantics as in current draft
Axel Polleres: summary - there were concerns about update semantics as in current draft ←
15:42:28 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#formalModel
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.1/Overview.xml#formalModel ←
15:42:48 <SteveH> ... because it doesn't cover the resolution that we wanted to create blank nodes in delete patters as wildcards
... because it doesn't cover the resolution that we wanted to create blank nodes in delete patters as wildcards ←
15:42:57 <SteveH> ... there were some mails with suggestions
... there were some mails with suggestions ←
15:42:59 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0305.html
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0305.html ←
15:43:19 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html ←
15:43:19 <SteveH> ... three options
... three options ←
15:43:39 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
15:43:52 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
15:43:59 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P0 is me
Zakim, ??P0 is me ←
15:43:59 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
15:44:11 <SteveH> ... several coinflip descisions on what it means
... several coinflip descisions on what it means ←
15:44:37 <SteveH> ... do the bns match all resources which are available, or whether they are [something]
... do the bns match all resources which are available, or whether they are [something] ←
15:44:43 <SteveH> ... people not so convinced
... people not so convinced ←
15:44:55 <SteveH> ... third option is to revisit resolution. no blank nodes as wildcards
... third option is to revisit resolution. no blank nodes as wildcards ←
15:44:57 <SteveH> q+
q+ ←
15:46:52 <SteveH> q-
q- ←
15:46:55 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:47:10 <AxelPolleres> Option 1: Bnode match all resources in the graph (essentially rewriting 1 in the mails)
Axel Polleres: Option 1: Bnode match all resources in the graph (essentially rewriting 1 in the mails) ←
15:48:12 <AxelPolleres> Option 2 : bnodes match whatever they match if treated as "moficy_tmeplate copied tyo body"
Axel Polleres: Option 2 : bnodes match whatever they match if treated as "moficy_tmeplate copied tyo body" ←
15:48:39 <AxelPolleres> (essentially rewriting 2)
Axel Polleres: (essentially rewriting 2) ←
15:49:14 <SteveH> AndyS: are there usecases where 1 & 2 are different
Andy Seaborne: are there usecases where 1 & 2 are different ←
15:49:24 <AxelPolleres> Option 1 and 2 differ �, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html
Axel Polleres: Option 1 and 2 differ �, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0317.html ←
15:51:12 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: at end of mail there's a simple example, so prolem with unbound is there
Axel Polleres: at end of mail there's a simple example, so prolem with unbound is there ←
15:51:21 <AxelPolleres> Option 3: treat bnodes as in CONSTRUCT/INSERT, i.e. as new bnodes... would mean they don't match anything.
Axel Polleres: Option 3: treat bnodes as in CONSTRUCT/INSERT, i.e. as new bnodes... would mean they don't match anything. ←
15:51:38 <AxelPolleres> (that is against our earlier resolution)
Axel Polleres: (that is against our earlier resolution) ←
15:51:55 <AxelPolleres> Option 4: is to forbid bnodes in DELETE
Axel Polleres: Option 4: is to forbid bnodes in DELETE ←
15:51:55 <AndyS> q-
Andy Seaborne: q- ←
15:52:03 <SteveH> SteveH: rather to make it an error
Steve Harris: rather to make it an error ←
15:52:18 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: one mail from birte, not happy with rewritings
Axel Polleres: one mail from birte, not happy with rewritings ←
15:52:26 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:52:26 <Zakim> bglimm was not muted, bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm was not muted, bglimm ←
15:52:50 <SteveH> bglimm: you could just define that you wanted all things deleteed that are an instance of the graph
Birte Glimm: you could just define that you wanted all things deleteed that are an instance of the graph ←
15:53:16 <SteveH> ... not specifiy how you want the deletion, reqriting is one way of doing the delete, would like a more abstract definition
... not specifiy how you want the deletion, reqriting is one way of doing the delete, would like a more abstract definition ←
15:53:35 <SteveH> ... would have to do some graph matching to decide which triples are deleted
... would have to do some graph matching to decide which triples are deleted ←
15:53:39 <SteveH> ... re. option 2
... re. option 2 ←
15:53:42 <AndyS> IIUC version 1 does not reflect pattern of bNode use -> makes me v nervious
Andy Seaborne: IIUC version 1 does not reflect pattern of bNode use -> makes me v nervious ←
15:54:21 <SteveH> ... equiv. to option 1, but not specified with UNIONs
... equiv. to option 1, but not specified with UNIONs ←
15:54:31 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: think it could be done but not sure anyone has time
Axel Polleres: think it could be done but not sure anyone has time ←
15:55:12 <SteveH> ... need some kind of skolemisation/deskolemisation
... need some kind of skolemisation/deskolemisation ←
15:55:25 <AndyS> Who was a supporter of the original point of making bNodes variables at all? Do we need to check with them?
Andy Seaborne: Who was a supporter of the original point of making bNodes variables at all? Do we need to check with them? ←
15:55:34 <SteveH> bglimm: they are like variables in normal evaluation, don't have to skolemise
Birte Glimm: they are like variables in normal evaluation, don't have to skolemise ←
15:56:20 <SteveH> bglimm: think it's more difficult to delete lists
Birte Glimm: think it's more difficult to delete lists ←
15:56:31 <SteveH> AndyS: do any of the mechanisms actually help?
Andy Seaborne: do any of the mechanisms actually help? ←
15:57:01 <AxelPolleres> Can someone draft a Testcase that does list deletion?
Axel Polleres: Can someone draft a Testcase that does list deletion? ←
15:57:05 <SteveH> bglimm: I think they do
Birte Glimm: I think they do ←
15:57:12 <SteveH> AndyS: only works where you know the links
Andy Seaborne: only works where you know the links ←
15:57:14 <SteveH> q+
q+ ←
15:57:25 <SteveH> bglimm: that's the main usecase
Birte Glimm: that's the main usecase ←
15:57:34 <SteveH> AxelPolleres: only works with fixed length lists
Axel Polleres: only works with fixed length lists ←
15:59:19 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
15:59:37 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
15:59:41 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P0 is me
Zakim, ??P0 is me ←
15:59:41 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
16:00:23 <AndyS> Hmm - something like DELETE { ?x rdf:first ?f ; rdf:rest ?y } WHERE { ?list rdf:rest* ?x . ?x rdf:first ?f ; rdf:rest ?y }
Andy Seaborne: Hmm - something like DELETE { ?x rdf:first ?f ; rdf:rest ?y } WHERE { ?list rdf:rest* ?x . ?x rdf:first ?f ; rdf:rest ?y } ←
16:00:33 <SteveH> 4, where forbidden = causes an error, rather than bannedby syntax
4, where forbidden = causes an error, rather than bannedby syntax ←
16:00:34 <bglimm> 3 or 4
Birte Glimm: 3 or 4 ←
16:00:41 <pgearon> option 4 (followed by 3)
Paul Gearon: option 4 (followed by 3) ←
16:00:43 <AndyS> which works by finding the list element one at a time
Andy Seaborne: which works by finding the list element one at a time ←
16:00:48 <kasei> 0
16:00:50 <sandro> (sorry, undecided.)
Sandro Hawke: (sorry, undecided.) ←
16:00:54 <AndyS> no opinion - need to see details.
Andy Seaborne: no opinion - need to see details. ←
16:01:02 <OlivierCorby> don't know yet
Olivier Corby: don't know yet ←
16:01:12 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
16:01:15 <AxelPolleres> Strawpoll Option1-4 ?
Axel Polleres: Strawpoll Option1-4 ? ←
16:01:16 <AxelPolleres> prefer 1 over 2 , but can live with 3/4
Axel Polleres: prefer 1 over 2 , but can live with 3/4 ←
16:01:39 <AxelPolleres> let's take it to email
Axel Polleres: let's take it to email ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2011-03-07 02:56:17 UTC by 'lfeigenb', comments: 'thanks to Steve for scribing'