deadlines: (1) query (including fed-query and ppaths) - end of Sep, mid oct is more likely (SteveH, Andy) (2) update - mid Sep (Paul, Alex) (3) entailment, RIF part mid Sep, if we can settle issues with RIF (Chime) (4) protocol - to be discussed among chairs (5) service description - mid sep (greg) (6) http-rdf-update, depends on when we get a reply from tim, to be checked with sandro, maybe. Discussion on non-grouped variables being projected ended in: one objection (souri) against NOT flagging this as an error; no real objection, but reservations (andy) for flagging it as an error, Axel will try to summarise the points on email.
13:58:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/24-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/08/24-sparql-irc ←
13:58:38 <bglimm> s/hel/hell/
Birte Glimm: s/hel/hell/ ←
13:58:39 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
13:59:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:59:13 <AndyS> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, [IPCaller] is me ←
13:59:15 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres ←
13:59:23 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
13:59:23 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
13:59:27 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
13:59:39 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-08-24
13:59:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P12, AndyS, AxelPolleres, kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P12, AndyS, AxelPolleres, kasei ←
13:59:41 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
13:59:45 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby ←
13:59:46 <AxelPolleres> regrets: Lee Feigenbaum
13:59:55 <AxelPolleres> chair: Axel Polleres
14:00:06 <AndyS> OK
Andy Seaborne: OK ←
14:00:07 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:00:09 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:00:13 <AxelPolleres> scribe: AndyS
(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)
14:00:13 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS
14:00:19 <Zakim> +MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry ←
14:00:21 <AndyS> scribe: Andy Seaborne
14:00:21 <NicholasH> zakim, ??P12 is me
Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, ??P12 is me ←
14:00:28 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:00:33 <Zakim> +NicholasH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +NicholasH; got it ←
14:00:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see NicholasH, AndyS, AxelPolleres, kasei, OlivierCorby, Ivan, MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see NicholasH, AndyS, AxelPolleres, kasei, OlivierCorby, Ivan, MattPerry ←
14:00:43 <NicholasH> Zakim, why are you so slow?
Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, why are you so slow? ←
14:00:51 <AndyS> Regrets: LeeF
14:00:59 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, NicholasH.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, NicholasH. ←
14:01:02 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
14:01:13 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
14:01:27 <NicholasH> zakim, who is speaking?
Nicholas Humfrey: zakim, who is speaking? ←
14:01:32 <AndyS> This meeting: schedule / editors then test cases then other
This meeting: schedule / editors then test cases then other ←
14:01:39 <Zakim> NicholasH, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
Zakim IRC Bot: NicholasH, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds ←
14:01:39 <bglimm> Why can I not even call France? The number you called is not available...
Birte Glimm: Why can I not even call France? The number you called is not available... ←
14:01:46 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
14:01:47 <AndyS> Topic: admin
14:01:58 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-08-17
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-08-17 ←
14:02:11 <SteveH__> ??P22 might be me, not sure
Steve Harris: ??P22 might be me, not sure ←
14:02:21 <AndyS> Corrections?
Corrections? ←
14:02:38 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-08-17
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-08-17 ←
14:02:51 <Zakim> + +1.603.791.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.791.aaaa ←
14:02:56 <bglimm> Zakim, passcode?
Birte Glimm: Zakim, passcode? ←
14:02:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), bglimm ←
14:03:24 <AxelPolleres> sandro, able to scribe next week?
Axel Polleres: sandro, able to scribe next week? ←
14:03:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:03:38 <AlexPassant> Zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, +[IPcaller] is me ←
14:03:38 <Zakim> sorry, AlexPassant, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AlexPassant, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]' ←
14:03:59 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-08-10#document_publishing_status__2f_plans
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-08-10#document_publishing_status__2f_plans ←
14:04:03 <AndyS> Topic: publication schedule
14:04:42 <AndyS> Status of query
Status of query ←
14:05:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
14:05:08 <bglimm> Zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is me ←
14:05:10 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bglimm, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]' ←
14:05:16 <bglimm> Zakim, I hate you
Birte Glimm: Zakim, I hate you ←
14:05:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I hate you', bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'I hate you', bglimm ←
14:05:18 <AndyS> SteveH: maybe end September
Steve Harris: maybe end September ←
14:05:20 <AxelPolleres> tentatively end of september
Axel Polleres: tentatively end of september ←
14:05:27 <bglimm> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me ←
14:05:27 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it ←
14:05:34 <AndyS> AndyS: Good enough target
Andy Seaborne: Good enough target ←
14:05:34 <AlexPassant> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
14:05:34 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
14:05:45 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
14:05:45 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
14:06:16 <AndyS> pgearon: missing edits to do / pregress next week / semantics ? --> mid Sept
Paul Gearon: missing edits to do / pregress next week / semantics ? --> mid Sept ←
14:06:28 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:06:28 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
14:06:52 <AndyS> bglimm: ready to go - one example to add ideally
Birte Glimm: ready to go - one example to add ideally ←
14:07:01 <AndyS> AxelPolleres: Last call status?
Axel Polleres: Last call status? ←
14:07:10 <AndyS> AxelPolleres: Last call status?
Axel Polleres: Last call status? ←
14:07:15 <AxelPolleres> chime, are you on the phone already?
Axel Polleres: chime, are you on the phone already? ←
14:07:20 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:07:33 <chimezie> not yet, dealing with something on my end will be joinining in a few seconds
Chimezie Ogbuji: not yet, dealing with something on my end will be joinining in a few seconds ←
14:07:37 <AndyS> ivan: some open issues with RIF
Ivan Herman: some open issues with RIF ←
14:07:42 <chimezie> Zakim, what is the passcode?
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, what is the passcode? ←
14:07:42 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), chimezie
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), chimezie ←
14:07:43 <AndyS> ack ivan
ack ivan ←
14:07:53 <AxelPolleres> open issues about rif:imports ...
Axel Polleres: open issues about rif:imports ... ←
14:08:16 <AxelPolleres> semi-sparql/semi-rif stuff
Axel Polleres: semi-sparql/semi-rif stuff ←
14:08:17 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
Zakim IRC Bot: +Chimezie_Ogbuji ←
14:08:22 <SteveH__> sorry, just looked at my diary, end sept is a bit optimistic, I'm on holiday for 2 weeks before then, mid oct is more likely
Steve Harris: sorry, just looked at my diary, end sept is a bit optimistic, I'm on holiday for 2 weeks before then, mid oct is more likely ←
14:09:18 <AndyS> AxelPolleres: open issues on RIF e.g. rif:imports - timescale?
Axel Polleres: open issues on RIF e.g. rif:imports - timescale? ←
14:09:44 <AndyS> chimezie: no interest from RIF WG yet.
Chimezie Ogbuji: no interest from RIF WG yet. ←
14:10:04 <AndyS> ivan: formally, there is an open issue on this
Ivan Herman: formally, there is an open issue on this ←
14:10:33 <AndyS> AxelPolleres; at risk?
AxelPolleres; at risk? ←
14:10:41 <AndyS> ivan: no - must be decided
Ivan Herman: no - must be decided ←
14:11:03 <AxelPolleres> should we just mark the naming of the URI rif:imports "at risk", unless we get agreement.
Axel Polleres: should we just mark the naming of the URI rif:imports "at risk", unless we get agreement. ←
14:11:07 <AndyS> ... naming is less certain - prefer to agree with RIF on URI name
... naming is less certain - prefer to agree with RIF on URI name ←
14:12:26 <AndyS> AxelPolleres: RIF call moved - inconvenient
Axel Polleres: RIF call moved - inconvenient ←
14:13:02 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: will find out about next RIF meeting and try to join, to clarify use of rif:imports URI.
ACTION: will find out about next RIF meeting and try to join, to clarify use of rif:imports URI. ←
14:13:02 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - will
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - will ←
14:13:07 <AndyS> ivan: also : URIs to use for naming entailment regimes for RIF
Ivan Herman: also : URIs to use for naming entailment regimes for RIF ←
14:14:04 <AxelPolleres> Rif is today, will try to join.
Axel Polleres: Rif is today, will try to join. ←
14:15:29 <bglimm> Can we maybe try and get at least one person from RIF to take part in the reviewing that be do before we publish?
Birte Glimm: Can we maybe try and get at least one person from RIF to take part in the reviewing that be do before we publish? ←
14:15:37 <AndyS> chimezie: ready mid Sept
Chimezie Ogbuji: ready mid Sept ←
14:15:41 <bglimm> s/be/we/
Birte Glimm: s/be/we/ ←
14:16:07 <chimezie> on RIF WG agenda: 5. Feedback on SPARQL ER [9-11] (20 mn)
Chimezie Ogbuji: on RIF WG agenda: 5. Feedback on SPARQL ER [9-11] (20 mn) ←
14:16:22 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
14:16:22 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
14:16:24 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: ask in RIF for another review� from them
ACTION: ask in RIF for another review� from them ←
14:16:24 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ask
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - ask ←
14:16:40 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to ask in RIF for another review from them
ACTION: axel to ask in RIF for another review from them ←
14:16:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-297 - Ask in RIF for another review from them [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-08-31].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-297 - Ask in RIF for another review from them [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-08-31]. ←
14:17:00 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to clarify se of rif:imports URI with RIF.
ACTION: axel to clarify se of rif:imports URI with RIF. ←
14:17:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-298 - Clarify se of rif:imports URI with RIF. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-08-31].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-298 - Clarify se of rif:imports URI with RIF. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-08-31]. ←
14:17:23 <AndyS> protocol - LeeF sent regrets for today
protocol - LeeF sent regrets for today ←
14:17:27 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to check with Lee about protocol
ACTION: Axel to check with Lee about protocol ←
14:17:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-299 - Check with Lee about protocol [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-08-31].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-299 - Check with Lee about protocol [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-08-31]. ←
14:17:42 <AndyS> kasei: 2 open issues
Gregory Williams: 2 open issues ←
14:17:58 <AndyS> ... one for parsable formats for endpoint
... one for parsable formats for endpoint ←
14:18:20 <AndyS> ... other entailment regimes and parameterized inference
... other entailment regimes and parameterized inference ←
14:18:34 <AndyS> ... done as much as we can do for that at the moment
... done as much as we can do for that at the moment ←
14:19:14 <bglimm> I think we concluded that there are too many different opinions and it is out of scope
Birte Glimm: I think we concluded that there are too many different opinions and it is out of scope ←
14:20:05 <SteveH__> that's my understanding
Steve Harris: that's my understanding ←
14:20:17 <SteveH__> [re. prop paths and [sth] being part of query doc]
Steve Harris: [re. prop paths and [sth] being part of query doc] ←
14:20:17 <AxelPolleres> fed-query and prop-paths within query
Axel Polleres: fed-query and prop-paths within query ←
14:20:19 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me ←
14:20:19 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted ←
14:20:19 <AndyS> AxelPolleres; Prop path & service -> query doc
AxelPolleres; Prop path & service -> query doc ←
14:20:22 <bglimm> q+ to ask about conformance criteria
Birte Glimm: q+ to ask about conformance criteria ←
14:20:37 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:20:37 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
14:20:58 <AndyS> bglimm: PF what is required?
Birte Glimm: PF what is required? ←
14:21:38 <AxelPolleres> who started to speak, please put yourself on the queue :-)
Axel Polleres: who started to speak, please put yourself on the queue :-) ←
14:22:48 <NicholasH> and there will always be bugs ;-)
Nicholas Humfrey: and there will always be bugs ;-) ←
14:22:56 <SteveH__> AndyS: you mgiht wish to reject some queries in some circumstances
Andy Seaborne: you mgiht wish to reject some queries in some circumstances [ Scribe Assist by Steve Harris ] ←
14:23:45 <kasei> sd:feature
Souripriya Das: feature [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ] ←
14:23:51 <kasei> but it was meant for features that are outside of SPARQL
Gregory Williams: but it was meant for features that are outside of SPARQL ←
14:24:27 <SteveH__> I think Andy is correct, it's very hard to cover the real world cases
Steve Harris: I think Andy is correct, it's very hard to cover the real world cases ←
14:24:33 <kasei> we do have concrete instances, but not for this.
Gregory Williams: we do have concrete instances, but not for this. ←
14:25:02 <bglimm> The problem with PP is that it changes the algebra and that means it changes the evaluation of BGPs, which is also what ent. reg. does, so there is a kind of conflict in that ent. regimes assume standard SPARQL algebra. PP is orthogonal to Ent. Regimes.
Birte Glimm: The problem with PP is that it changes the algebra and that means it changes the evaluation of BGPs, which is also what ent. reg. does, so there is a kind of conflict in that ent. regimes assume standard SPARQL algebra. PP is orthogonal to Ent. Regimes. ←
14:25:15 <NicholasH> might support count() but not other aggregates
Nicholas Humfrey: might support count() but not other aggregates ←
14:25:20 <SteveH__> right
Steve Harris: right ←
14:25:52 <AndyS> bglimm, orthogonal - yes- not conflicting with.
bglimm, orthogonal - yes- not conflicting with. ←
14:26:10 <AndyS> ... it does not change BGP eval.
... it does not change BGP eval. ←
14:26:44 <bglimm> well, the semantics of PP can be undefined, we just don't have anything for that
Birte Glimm: well, the semantics of PP can be undefined, we just don't have anything for that ←
14:26:54 <chimezie> so we don't have a notion of a well-formed query?
Chimezie Ogbuji: so we don't have a notion of a well-formed query? ←
14:26:57 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
14:27:42 <AxelPolleres> { ?x :p* ?y } ???
Axel Polleres: { ?x :p* ?y } ??? ←
14:29:56 <AxelPolleres> andys: pp are orthogonal to entailment
Andy Seaborne: pp are orthogonal to entailment [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:30:10 <AxelPolleres> birte: then it's not a problem
Birte Glimm: then it's not a problem [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:31:04 <AxelPolleres> topic: rdf-http-update
14:31:18 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:31:18 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted ←
14:31:28 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
14:31:28 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
14:31:57 <AndyS> chimezie: "ready for publication = all major issues addressed" => TBL comments, some WG points (small)
Chimezie Ogbuji: "ready for publication = all major issues addressed" => TBL comments, some WG points (small) ←
14:32:13 <AxelPolleres> comments from timbl open, comments from the WG should be mostly handled, depends on timbl's answers.
Axel Polleres: comments from timbl open, comments from the WG should be mostly handled, depends on timbl's answers. ←
14:32:29 <AxelPolleres> axel: let's follow up with sndro as well on that
Axel Polleres: let's follow up with sndro as well on that [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:32:53 <AndyS> topic: test cases
Summary: deadlines: (1) query (including fed-query and ppaths) - end of Sep, mid oct is more likely (SteveH, Andy) (2) update - mid Sep (Paul, Alex) (3) entailment, RIF part mid Sep, if we can settle issues with RIF (Chime) (4) protocol - to be discussed among chairs (5) service description - mid sep (greg) (6) http-rdf-update, depends on when we get a reply from tim, to be checked with sandro, maybe. Discussion on non-grouped variables being projected ended in: one objection (souri) against NOT flagging this as an error; no real objection, but reservations (andy) for flagging it as an error, Axel will try to summarise the points on email.
14:32:54 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me ←
14:32:54 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted ←
14:33:09 <AndyS> two sets: select expressions, count aggregates
two sets: select expressions, count aggregates ←
14:33:14 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0242.html
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0242.html ←
14:33:22 <AndyS> count aggregate: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0242.html
count aggregate: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0242.html ←
14:33:48 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/aggregates/
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/aggregates/ ←
14:34:34 <AxelPolleres> can we approve agg01-agg07 ?
Axel Polleres: can we approve agg01-agg07 ? ←
14:35:39 <kasei> I agree with (and pass) agg01-agg07.
Gregory Williams: I agree with (and pass) agg01-agg07. ←
14:36:02 <SteveH__> I would like to abstain on all
Steve Harris: I would like to abstain on all ←
14:37:14 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve test cases agg01-agg07 modulo check by email from Andy
PROPOSED: Approve test cases agg01-agg07 modulo check by email from Andy ←
14:38:42 <SteveH__> I don't think I'll be able to run them for real
Steve Harris: I don't think I'll be able to run them for real ←
14:38:51 <SteveH__> [sorry, very noisy here, dont want to use phone]
Steve Harris: [sorry, very noisy here, dont want to use phone] ←
14:39:02 <SteveH__> I can "run" then on paper
Steve Harris: I can "run" then on paper ←
14:39:08 <SteveH__> sure
Steve Harris: sure ←
14:39:10 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: andy to check test cases agg01-agg07
ACTION: andy to check test cases agg01-agg07 ←
14:39:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-300 - Check test cases agg01-agg07 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2010-08-31].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-300 - Check test cases agg01-agg07 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2010-08-31]. ←
14:39:25 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: steve to check test cases agg01-agg07
ACTION: steve to check test cases agg01-agg07 ←
14:39:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-301 - Check test cases agg01-agg07 [on Steve Harris - due 2010-08-31].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-301 - Check test cases agg01-agg07 [on Steve Harris - due 2010-08-31]. ←
14:39:59 <kasei> q+ to ask whether the current test setup would allow testing of group_concat (non-deterministic w.r.t. sorting)
Gregory Williams: q+ to ask whether the current test setup would allow testing of group_concat (non-deterministic w.r.t. sorting) ←
14:40:45 <bglimm> no
Birte Glimm: no ←
14:40:48 <bglimm> ack me
Birte Glimm: ack me ←
14:40:49 <Zakim> bglimm, you wanted to ask about conformance criteria
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm, you wanted to ask about conformance criteria ←
14:40:50 <AxelPolleres> ack bglimm
Axel Polleres: ack bglimm ←
14:40:57 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
14:40:57 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
14:41:35 <SteveH__> yes, order applies after the aggregates
Steve Harris: yes, order applies after the aggregates ←
14:42:23 <AxelPolleres> andyS: order in the group vs order by
Andy Seaborne: order in the group vs order by [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:42:30 <kasei> I'm talking about results like: "1, 2" vs. "2, 1"
Gregory Williams: I'm talking about results like: "1, 2" vs. "2, 1" ←
14:43:19 <AndyS> Can't be expressed - and isn't defined
Can't be expressed - and isn't defined ←
14:43:33 <AndyS> kasei: could use a regex on a subquery
Gregory Williams: could use a regex on a subquery ←
14:43:41 <AxelPolleres> greg: could be done with an outer ask query checkin all the possiblities
Gregory Williams: could be done with an outer ask query checkin all the possiblities [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:44:00 <SteveH__> "1, 1" and "2, 2" is ok
Steve Harris: "1, 1" and "2, 2" is ok ←
14:44:01 <AxelPolleres> andy: not to write tests which are not portable
Andy Seaborne: not to write tests which are not portable [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:44:26 <kasei> seems most (portable) solutions to this involve subqueries
Gregory Williams: seems most (portable) solutions to this involve subqueries ←
14:44:34 <AxelPolleres> ... alternative to regex would be length (not perfect, but ok)
Axel Polleres: ... alternative to regex would be length (not perfect, but ok) ←
14:45:20 <AxelPolleres> there is one query with to results in the testsuite.
Axel Polleres: there is one query with to results in the testsuite. ←
14:45:30 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
14:46:16 <SteveH__> we shouldn't change the 1.0 testsuite
Steve Harris: we shouldn't change the 1.0 testsuite ←
14:46:29 <SteveH__> but we can publish a new suite
Steve Harris: but we can publish a new suite ←
14:46:41 <AxelPolleres> axel: extend testcase vocabulary by alternatives.
Axel Polleres: extend testcase vocabulary by alternatives. [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:46:57 <AxelPolleres> andy: jsut one or two alternatives isn't really the issue.
Andy Seaborne: jsut one or two alternatives isn't really the issue. [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:47:00 <Zakim> +bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm ←
14:47:17 <AxelPolleres> ... embedding tst in the outer query would be better.
Axel Polleres: ... embedding tst in the outer query would be better. ←
14:47:23 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
14:47:23 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
14:48:04 <SteveH__> bglimm, were :)
Steve Harris: bglimm, were :) ←
14:48:06 <AxelPolleres> let's see how far we get with deterministic testcases only.
Axel Polleres: let's see how far we get with deterministic testcases only. ←
14:48:09 <AndyS> I prefer to have subqueries and one result per test, not alternative results
I prefer to have subqueries and one result per test, not alternative results ←
14:49:06 <AxelPolleres> SELECT ?N COUNT(?P1) WHERE { ?P name ?N; knows ?P1 } group by ?P
Axel Polleres: SELECT ?N COUNT(?P1) WHERE { ?P name ?N; knows ?P1 } group by ?P ←
14:49:41 <chimezie> zakim, unmute me
Chimezie Ogbuji: zakim, unmute me ←
14:49:41 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted ←
14:49:52 <AndyS> q+
q+ ←
14:49:52 <kasei> undefined or error?
Gregory Williams: undefined or error? ←
14:50:20 <kasei> q-
Gregory Williams: q- ←
14:50:21 <chimezie> i would think this should be an error
Chimezie Ogbuji: i would think this should be an error ←
14:51:08 <MattPerry> Oracle SQL will give an error
Matthew Perry: Oracle SQL will give an error ←
14:51:27 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-26#line0804
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-26#line0804 ←
14:53:15 <AndyS> q-
q- ←
14:53:51 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll: should ungrouped variabled in project expressions generate an error?
STRAWPOLL: should ungrouped variabled in project expressions generate an error? ←
14:53:56 <AndyS> what about a warning?
what about a warning? ←
14:54:13 <chimezie> +1
Chimezie Ogbuji: +1 ←
14:54:14 <AxelPolleres> s/project expresisons/projections/
Axel Polleres: s/project expresisons/projections/ ←
14:54:22 <bglimm> +1
Birte Glimm: +1 ←
14:54:22 <kasei> +1
Gregory Williams: +1 ←
14:54:26 <MattPerry> +1 for error
Matthew Perry: +1 for error ←
14:54:26 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
14:54:34 <NicholasH> 0
14:54:35 <AndyS> 0
0 ←
14:54:40 <OlivierCorby> 0
Olivier Corby: 0 ←
14:54:44 <SteveH__> 0
Steve Harris: 0 ←
14:54:45 <pgearon> 0
Paul Gearon: 0 ←
14:54:45 <AlexPassant> 0
14:54:48 <ivan> 0
Ivan Herman: 0 ←
14:54:49 <AxelPolleres> (DERI hat��) +1
Axel Polleres: (DERI hat��) +1 ←
14:55:33 <SteveH__> didn't we already have a descision on this, or is it a new issue?
Steve Harris: didn't we already have a descision on this, or is it a new issue? ←
14:55:43 <AndyS> we have discussed this before
we have discussed this before ←
14:55:44 <bglimm> I agree with CHime
Birte Glimm: I agree with CHime ←
14:55:55 <MattPerry> I agree with chime too
Matthew Perry: I agree with chime too ←
14:55:57 <kasei> i'd probably have to know what "not an error" actually is... unbound? undefined behaviour?
Gregory Williams: i'd probably have to know what "not an error" actually is... unbound? undefined behaviour? ←
14:56:01 <Souri> I'd object I think
Souripriya Das: I'd object I think ←
14:57:42 <AxelPolleres> we have one objection (souri) against not error... and no objection against error...
Axel Polleres: we have one objection (souri) against not error... and no objection against error... ←
14:57:44 <bglimm> all queries, if you don't like them
Birte Glimm: all queries, if you don't like them ←
14:58:10 <AxelPolleres> Andy: we don't have other cases for queries which are syntactically correct, but should raise an error
Andy Seaborne: we don't have other cases for queries which are syntactically correct, but should raise an error [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:58:29 <AxelPolleres> Chime: we don't have a notion of "well-formed" queries
Chimezie Ogbuji: we don't have a notion of "well-formed" queries [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:59:40 <AxelPolleres> axel: how is that different from bnodes being shared between groups?
Axel Polleres: how is that different from bnodes being shared between groups? [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
15:00:48 <AxelPolleres> probably we need to take that to email...
Axel Polleres: probably we need to take that to email... ←
15:01:14 <AxelPolleres> Andy: if we find a class of queries for that case, it might be ok.
Andy Seaborne: if we find a class of queries for that case, it might be ok. [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
15:01:23 <SteveH__> I belive that the current text says it an error, FWIW
Steve Harris: I belive that the current text says it an error, FWIW ←
15:01:28 <SteveH__> but doesn't define an mechanism
Steve Harris: but doesn't define an mechanism ←
15:01:30 <Souri> if we can statically figure out that it does not conform, IMO we should consider giving an error
Souripriya Das: if we can statically figure out that it does not conform, IMO we should consider giving an error ←
15:02:02 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to try to summarise the positions on projecting ungrouped variables
ACTION: Axel to try to summarise the positions on projecting ungrouped variables ←
15:02:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-302 - Try to summarise the positions on projecting ungrouped variables [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-08-31].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-302 - Try to summarise the positions on projecting ungrouped variables [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-08-31]. ←
15:02:10 <AxelPolleres> adjourn
Axel Polleres: adjourn ←
15:02:18 <ivan> zakim, drop me
Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me ←
15:02:18 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected ←
15:02:19 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:02:41 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
15:02:42 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make records public ←
15:02:54 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
Zakim IRC Bot: -Chimezie_Ogbuji ←
15:02:59 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres ←
15:03:20 <Zakim> -??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22 ←
15:03:40 <AndyS> SELECT (SAMPLE(?P) AS ?P) ....
SELECT (SAMPLE(?P) AS ?P) .... ←
15:04:14 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:04:27 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:04:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see NicholasH, AndyS, kasei, OlivierCorby, MattPerry, pgearon, +1.603.791.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see NicholasH, AndyS, kasei, OlivierCorby, MattPerry, pgearon, +1.603.791.aaaa ←
15:04:31 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:04:40 <SteveH__> AndyS, yeah, that's probably what I'd do in an impl. given a free hand
Steve Harris: AndyS, yeah, that's probably what I'd do in an impl. given a free hand ←
15:04:40 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:04:43 <Zakim> -NicholasH
Zakim IRC Bot: -NicholasH ←
15:04:45 <SteveH__> it's a little crazy
Steve Harris: it's a little crazy ←
15:04:53 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby ←
15:04:59 <SteveH__> but sueful
Steve Harris: but sueful ←
15:05:16 <Souri> The error in Oracle database for an incorrect use of select list expression in the presence of GROUP BY (select empno, count(*) from scott.emp group by ename) is: ORA-00979: not a GROUP BY expression
Souripriya Das: The error in Oracle database for an incorrect use of select list expression in the presence of GROUP BY (select empno, count(*) from scott.emp group by ename) is: ORA-00979: not a GROUP BY expression ←
15:05:28 <Souri> zakim, aaaa is me
Souripriya Das: zakim, aaaa is me ←
15:05:28 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri; got it ←
15:05:35 <AndyS> currently wording prohibits any reuse of the name even if completely different variable (e.g. another subquery, or a different union branch)
currently wording prohibits any reuse of the name even if completely different variable (e.g. another subquery, or a different union branch) ←
15:05:50 <SteveH_> AndyS, yes
Steve Harris: AndyS, yes ←
15:06:22 <AndyS> but a subquery without group can reuse a variable ... err !
but a subquery without group can reuse a variable ... err ! ←
15:06:40 <AxelPolleres> apologies for having had to run quickly... seems my "let's adjourn" was not heard by another conversation on top
Axel Polleres: apologies for having had to run quickly... seems my "let's adjourn" was not heard by another conversation on top ←
15:06:43 <AndyS> Needs to define use (not introduction) in expressions in SELECT
Needs to define use (not introduction) in expressions in SELECT ←
15:06:58 <AndyS> .. add to SELECT expressions section?
.. add to SELECT expressions section? ←
15:07:50 <AxelPolleres> seemed that steve and andy kept on discussing, didn't want to stop them
Axel Polleres: seemed that steve and andy kept on discussing, didn't want to stop them ←
15:07:53 <Souri> got to go ... bye
Souripriya Das: got to go ... bye ←
15:08:13 <AxelPolleres> bye all, sorry for the somewhat chaotic end of the call
Axel Polleres: bye all, sorry for the somewhat chaotic end of the call ←
15:08:26 <AxelPolleres> thanks for scribing to andy
Axel Polleres: thanks for scribing to andy ←
15:08:28 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
15:08:36 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make records public ←
15:08:36 <AxelPolleres> summary: deadlines: (1) query (including fed-query and ppaths) - end of Sep, mid oct is more likely (SteveH, Andy) (2) update - mid Sep (Paul, Alex) (3) entailment, RIF part mid Sep, if we can settle issues with RIF (Chime) (4) protocol - to be discussed among chairs (5) service description - mid sep (greg) (6) http-rdf-update, depends on when we get a reply from tim, to be checked with sandro, maybe. Discussion on non-grouped variables being projected ended in: one objection (souri) against NOT flagging this as an error; no real objection, but reservations (andy) for flagging it as an error, Axel will try to summarise the points on email.
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2010-08-24 15:37:56 UTC by 'apollere2', comments: None