None.
13:59:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-sparql-irc ←
13:59:54 <AxelPolleres> zakim, room for 20
Axel Polleres: zakim, room for 20 ←
13:59:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'room for 20', AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'room for 20', AxelPolleres ←
14:00:09 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, room for 20?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, room for 20? ←
14:00:11 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; conference Team_(sparql)14:00Z scheduled with code 772775 (SPARQL) for 60 minutes until 1500Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AxelPolleres; conference Team_(sparql)14:00Z scheduled with code 772775 (SPARQL) for 60 minutes until 1500Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked ←
14:00:51 <Zakim> Team_(sparql)14:00Z has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(sparql)14:00Z has now started ←
14:00:59 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby ←
14:01:20 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
14:02:31 <Zakim> + +1.441.865.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.441.865.aaaa ←
14:02:33 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres ←
14:02:41 <Zakim> +MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry ←
14:02:43 <bglimm> Zakim, +1.441.865.aaaa is me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, +1.441.865.aaaa is me ←
14:02:43 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it ←
14:02:44 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
14:02:46 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:02:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see OlivierCorby, kasei, bglimm, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, ??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see OlivierCorby, kasei, bglimm, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, ??P22 ←
14:02:51 <AndyS> zakim, ??P22 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P22 is me ←
14:02:52 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:03:28 <AxelPolleres> EU bridge seems still to be broken...
Axel Polleres: EU bridge seems still to be broken... ←
14:03:43 <bglimm> UK bridge asks for the code, but ignores the input
Birte Glimm: UK bridge asks for the code, but ignores the input ←
14:04:00 <AxelPolleres> Anyone else planning to join us on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Anyone else planning to join us on the phone? ←
14:04:15 <pgearon> calling now
Paul Gearon: calling now ←
14:04:59 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
14:06:15 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Gregory Williams
(Scribe set to Gregory Williams)
14:06:22 <AxelPolleres> chair: Axel Polleres
14:07:39 <kasei> AxelPolleres: want to look at organization of test suite, maybe people who were in DAWG can recap how things worked before
Axel Polleres: want to look at organization of test suite, maybe people who were in DAWG can recap how things worked before ←
14:08:31 <kasei> AndyS: we collected test cases in RDF. manifests, one per directory, divided into subject-area directories.
Andy Seaborne: we collected test cases in RDF. manifests, one per directory, divided into subject-area directories. ←
14:08:49 <kasei> ... manifest is a list of tests, test is a pair of query and result
... manifest is a list of tests, test is a pair of query and result ←
14:08:59 <AxelPolleres> manifest format proposed for SPARQL 1.1 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html
Axel Polleres: manifest format proposed for SPARQL 1.1 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html ←
14:09:04 <kasei> ... query case, action is data coming in, and a query to execute
... query case, action is data coming in, and a query to execute ←
14:09:13 <kasei> ... result is a result set or a model, depends on the type of query
... result is a result set or a model, depends on the type of query ←
14:09:19 <kasei> ... tests are typed into syntax and eval tests
... tests are typed into syntax and eval tests ←
14:09:32 <kasei> ... syntax tests are just expected to pass, no results
... syntax tests are just expected to pass, no results ←
14:09:48 <kasei> ... no top-level manifest
... no top-level manifest ←
14:10:18 <kasei> ... description of the data doesn't follow what's in service descriptions. just name file for named graphs, name is the same as the file.
... description of the data doesn't follow what's in service descriptions. just name file for named graphs, name is the same as the file. ←
14:10:46 <pgearon> +q
Paul Gearon: +q ←
14:10:48 <bglimm> q+ to ask about results format
Birte Glimm: q+ to ask about results format ←
14:10:52 <kasei> AxelPolleres: no top level manifests?
Axel Polleres: no top level manifests? ←
14:11:14 <kasei> ... need to check that structure. we can structure as we want, probably want to include existing tests
... need to check that structure. we can structure as we want, probably want to include existing tests ←
14:11:26 <AndyS> [] :include <Subdir/manifest.ttl> works for ARQ
Andy Seaborne: [] :include <Subdir/manifest.ttl> works for ARQ ←
14:11:37 <kasei> pgearon: couple of different types of graphs can be returned.
Paul Gearon: couple of different types of graphs can be returned. ←
14:11:49 <kasei> ... graphs you asked for with a CONSTRUCT, graph which describes a result set.
... graphs you asked for with a CONSTRUCT, graph which describes a result set. ←
14:11:59 <kasei> AndyS: right, but for tests, there isn't a difference.
Andy Seaborne: right, but for tests, there isn't a difference. ←
14:12:45 <kasei> AndyS: for SELECT and ASK, we used result set format. When you do a compare, you need to know if it is ordered or not.
Andy Seaborne: for SELECT and ASK, we used result set format. When you do a compare, you need to know if it is ordered or not. ←
14:14:05 <kasei> bglimm: seen some results in turtle, other cases have xml result formats. Can I choose when to use xml or turtle?
Birte Glimm: seen some results in turtle, other cases have xml result formats. Can I choose when to use xml or turtle? ←
14:14:10 <kasei> ... is the xml results format seen as a graph?
... is the xml results format seen as a graph? ←
14:14:35 <kasei> AndyS: context sensitive. srx file is a sparql xml results format. should be with a SELECT query, otherwise test is wrong.
Andy Seaborne: context sensitive. srx file is a sparql xml results format. should be with a SELECT query, otherwise test is wrong. ←
14:14:45 <kasei> ... file extension determines type.
... file extension determines type. ←
14:14:49 <AxelPolleres> srx vs n3 vs ... do we, at the moment only use file extensions?
Axel Polleres: srx vs n3 vs ... do we, at the moment only use file extensions? ←
14:15:11 <kasei> ... srx can be used unless results are order dependent.
... srx can be used unless results are order dependent. ←
14:15:40 <kasei> ... srx is not order dependent.
... srx is not order dependent. ←
14:15:49 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
14:16:43 <pgearon> solution-seq/slice-results-01.ttl
Paul Gearon: solution-seq/slice-results-01.ttl ←
14:16:49 <pgearon> Looking for the URL now
Paul Gearon: Looking for the URL now ←
14:17:25 <AxelPolleres> several broken links in the new test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html
Axel Polleres: several broken links in the new test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html ←
14:17:26 <kasei> AxelPolleres: we don't need new test cases for ordering because we don't change ORDER BY?
Axel Polleres: we don't need new test cases for ordering because we don't change ORDER BY? ←
14:17:35 <kasei> AndyS: we only need test cases for new material
Andy Seaborne: we only need test cases for new material ←
14:17:54 <kasei> is somebody in an aviary?
is somebody in an aviary? ←
14:18:02 <kasei> :)
:) ←
14:18:04 <AxelPolleres> srx is unordered, good to know!
Axel Polleres: srx is unordered, good to know! ←
14:18:49 <kasei> AxelPolleres: any more history from DAWG?
Axel Polleres: any more history from DAWG? ←
14:19:15 <kasei> ... LeeF?
... LeeF? ←
14:19:18 <AxelPolleres> topic: manifest format
14:19:20 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
14:19:26 <bglimm> ack bglimm
Birte Glimm: ack bglimm ←
14:19:27 <Zakim> bglimm, you wanted to ask about results format
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm, you wanted to ask about results format ←
14:19:32 <pgearon> q-
Paul Gearon: q- ←
14:19:34 <pgearon> no
Paul Gearon: no ←
14:19:58 <kasei> AndyS: does anybody have feedback on tests from last time? hard bits we can make easier?
Andy Seaborne: does anybody have feedback on tests from last time? hard bits we can make easier? ←
14:20:11 <kasei> q+
q+ ←
14:20:14 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:20:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see OlivierCorby, kasei, bglimm, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, AndyS, pgearon, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see OlivierCorby, kasei, bglimm, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, AndyS, pgearon, LeeF ←
14:20:19 <pgearon> There were a couple of errors in the documentation
Paul Gearon: There were a couple of errors in the documentation ←
14:20:24 <pgearon> not big ones
Paul Gearon: not big ones ←
14:20:26 <bglimm> ?? contrary by design?
Birte Glimm: ?? contrary by design? ←
14:20:38 <kasei> AndyS: you can't parse all tests in the test suite at the same time. two of them conflict.
Andy Seaborne: you can't parse all tests in the test suite at the same time. two of them conflict. ←
14:20:48 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
14:21:06 <kasei> I thought those were eval tests? So just can't *run* them all at the same time and pass...
I thought those were eval tests? So just can't *run* them all at the same time and pass... ←
14:21:35 <pgearon> vaguely
Paul Gearon: vaguely ←
14:21:43 <kasei> optional-filter/expr-5-result-not-simplified.ttl
optional-filter/expr-5-result-not-simplified.ttl ←
14:21:46 <kasei> optional-filter/expr-5-result-simplified.ttl
optional-filter/expr-5-result-simplified.ttl ←
14:21:47 <kasei> I think
I think ←
14:21:53 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
14:21:54 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
14:22:01 <kasei> pgearon: came across a few little issues.
Paul Gearon: came across a few little issues. ←
14:22:11 <kasei> ... would have to dig up details. not major.
... would have to dig up details. not major. ←
14:22:30 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
14:22:45 <kasei> AxelPolleres: maybe we should leave old manifests where they are, or make a sparql-1.0 subsection?
Axel Polleres: maybe we should leave old manifests where they are, or make a sparql-1.0 subsection? ←
14:23:20 <kasei> AndyS: don't think anything needs fixing in old test cases, but documentation is a different issue.
Andy Seaborne: don't think anything needs fixing in old test cases, but documentation is a different issue. ←
14:23:38 <kasei> ... small preference is a single test suite that can be easily used. copying over sparql 1.0 tests and adding new test cases.
... small preference is a single test suite that can be easily used. copying over sparql 1.0 tests and adding new test cases. ←
14:23:49 <kasei> ... reason is to make it easier for implementors.
... reason is to make it easier for implementors. ←
14:24:00 <kasei> AxelPolleres: anybody oppose that idea?
Axel Polleres: anybody oppose that idea? ←
14:24:04 <LeeF> +1
Lee Feigenbaum: +1 ←
14:24:25 <kasei> AxelPolleres: have to copy over old tests into a new directory, check if we want to restructure.
Axel Polleres: have to copy over old tests into a new directory, check if we want to restructure. ←
14:24:42 <kasei> ... maybe keep them in a seperate sparql-1.0 directory.
... maybe keep them in a seperate sparql-1.0 directory. ←
14:24:55 <AndyS> tests/SPARQL-1.0/... tests/SPARQL-1.1/...
Andy Seaborne: tests/SPARQL-1.0/... tests/SPARQL-1.1/... ←
14:25:00 <kasei> i was on the queue
i was on the queue ←
14:25:11 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html ←
14:25:16 <kasei> AxelPolleres: manifest format
Axel Polleres: manifest format ←
14:25:20 <AndyS> q?
Andy Seaborne: q? ←
14:25:26 <AndyS> ack AndyS
Andy Seaborne: ack AndyS ←
14:25:27 <bglimm> q+ to ask about manifest extension for ent. regimes
Birte Glimm: q+ to ask about manifest extension for ent. regimes ←
14:25:49 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:25:49 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
14:26:03 <kasei> ... two issues. I extended the vocabulary for new things (update).
... two issues. I extended the vocabulary for new things (update). ←
14:26:27 <kasei> ... update result success/failure, and what the state of the graph store is after the update.
... update result success/failure, and what the state of the graph store is after the update. ←
14:27:02 <kasei> ... idea was to make action have parameters: query, graph store before evaluation, and graph store after evaluation.
... idea was to make action have parameters: query, graph store before evaluation, and graph store after evaluation. ←
14:27:06 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#updateevaltests
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#updateevaltests ←
14:27:20 <AndyS> (Observation) slightly different design to query datasets - not that it matters that much
Andy Seaborne: (Observation) slightly different design to query datasets - not that it matters that much ←
14:27:40 <kasei> ... under discussion: is this new vocabulary ok? new prefix ut: for update tests vocabulary.
... under discussion: is this new vocabulary ok? new prefix ut: for update tests vocabulary. ←
14:28:10 <kasei> ... is it ok to model the graph store in this way? or should we point to the graph store with a single trig file?
... is it ok to model the graph store in this way? or should we point to the graph store with a single trig file? ←
14:28:22 <kasei> AndyS: any reason to not reuse the vocab in the query tests?
Andy Seaborne: any reason to not reuse the vocab in the query tests? ←
14:28:33 <kasei> AxelPolleres: no vocabulary in query tests that I'm aware of to do this.
Axel Polleres: no vocabulary in query tests that I'm aware of to do this. ←
14:28:57 <AndyS> qt:data and qt:graphData
Andy Seaborne: qt:data and qt:graphData ←
14:29:27 <kasei> AxelPolleres: would there be subproperties to point to name of graph?
Axel Polleres: would there be subproperties to point to name of graph? ←
14:29:29 <pgearon> re 18 minutes ago: for anyone still interested in the "ordered result" format, they can look at: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data-r2/solution-seq/slice-results-01.ttl
Paul Gearon: re 18 minutes ago: for anyone still interested in the "ordered result" format, they can look at: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data-r2/solution-seq/slice-results-01.ttl ←
14:29:37 <kasei> AndyS: the object of qt:graphData is both location of data and the graph name
Andy Seaborne: the object of qt:graphData is both location of data and the graph name ←
14:29:50 <kasei> ... those properties hang off the action node in the graph. no indirection through graph store.
... those properties hang off the action node in the graph. no indirection through graph store. ←
14:30:06 <kasei> ... all relative URIs so they work on the filesystem, off the web.
... all relative URIs so they work on the filesystem, off the web. ←
14:30:29 <AxelPolleres> ut:namedGraph ut:graph ut:named
Axel Polleres: ut:namedGraph ut:graph ut:named ←
14:30:38 <kasei> ... could use service description modeling, but we already have legacy modeling in place.
... could use service description modeling, but we already have legacy modeling in place. ←
14:30:55 <kasei> AxelPolleres: one argument for keeping existing model, people are used to it.
Axel Polleres: one argument for keeping existing model, people are used to it. ←
14:31:08 <kasei> ... another argument for going with new modeling, align with SD vocab.
... another argument for going with new modeling, align with SD vocab. ←
14:31:18 <LeeF> no strong feeling here either
Lee Feigenbaum: no strong feeling here either ←
14:31:42 <kasei> ... no preference between the two. current modeling in the new doc just because I didn't find the old modeling.
... no preference between the two. current modeling in the new doc just because I didn't find the old modeling. ←
14:31:56 <kasei> AndyS: mild preference for using SD vocab.
Andy Seaborne: mild preference for using SD vocab. ←
14:32:28 <kasei> AxelPolleres: the usage in SD is a bit different because right now the unnamed graph points to a file, not the same as in the SD vocab.
Axel Polleres: the usage in SD is a bit different because right now the unnamed graph points to a file, not the same as in the SD vocab. ←
14:33:13 <kasei> AxelPolleres: opinions? strawpoll?
Axel Polleres: opinions? strawpoll? ←
14:33:15 <AndyS> Advice to the editor
Andy Seaborne: Advice to the editor ←
14:34:21 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll,, option 1 data graphData from qt, option 2 ut: .... option3: sd: ... option 4: something different : e.g. TriG
Axel Polleres: strawpoll,, option 1 data graphData from qt, option 2 ut: .... option3: sd: ... option 4: something different : e.g. TriG ←
14:34:36 <bglimm> 1
Birte Glimm: 1 ←
14:34:51 <AxelPolleres> 2, 1 fine as well for me.
Axel Polleres: 2, 1 fine as well for me. ←
14:35:03 <kasei> 0
0 ←
14:35:08 <LeeF> still no strong feeling :-)
Lee Feigenbaum: still no strong feeling :-) ←
14:35:17 <kasei> although TriG is appealing...
although TriG is appealing... ←
14:35:21 <AndyS> netrual - noting that TriG is not as stable going forward as other formats.
Andy Seaborne: netrual - noting that TriG is not as stable going forward as other formats. ←
14:35:24 <LeeF> I use TriG in my Glitter test suite - but don't think we need to push that on the rest of the world at this moment
Lee Feigenbaum: I use TriG in my Glitter test suite - but don't think we need to push that on the rest of the world at this moment ←
14:36:00 <kasei> AxelPolleres: data/graphData then...?
Axel Polleres: data/graphData then...? ←
14:37:01 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: to rewrite README.html using qt:data/qt:graphData in the testcase manifest for updates
ACTION: to rewrite README.html using qt:data/qt:graphData in the testcase manifest for updates ←
14:37:01 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - to ←
14:37:14 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to rewrite README.html using qt:data/qt:graphData in the testcase manifest for updates
ACTION: axel to rewrite README.html using qt:data/qt:graphData in the testcase manifest for updates ←
14:37:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-267 - Rewrite README.html using qt:data/qt:graphData in the testcase manifest for updates [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-267 - Rewrite README.html using qt:data/qt:graphData in the testcase manifest for updates [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07]. ←
14:37:28 <bglimm> entailments?
Birte Glimm: entailments? ←
14:37:37 <kasei> AxelPolleres: with vocab fixed, now how to structure manifest files.
Axel Polleres: with vocab fixed, now how to structure manifest files. ←
14:38:02 <kasei> ... started collecting test cases. good starting points for aggregates, subqueries, negation, project expressions, and property paths.
... started collecting test cases. good starting points for aggregates, subqueries, negation, project expressions, and property paths. ←
14:38:45 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-192
Axel Polleres: close ACTION-192 ←
14:38:45 <trackbot> ACTION-192 Collect test cases for subqueries closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-192 Collect test cases for subqueries closed ←
14:39:00 <kasei> ... open actions on project expressions.
... open actions on project expressions. ←
14:39:13 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:39:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see OlivierCorby, kasei, bglimm, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, AndyS, pgearon, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see OlivierCorby, kasei, bglimm, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, AndyS, pgearon, LeeF ←
14:39:24 <kasei> ... won't be able to get to them for 2 weeks.
... won't be able to get to them for 2 weeks. ←
14:39:39 <kasei> ... do we need these seperately? in many cases they need to be with aggregates.
... do we need these seperately? in many cases they need to be with aggregates. ←
14:39:40 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
14:40:14 <kasei> q-
q- ←
14:40:38 <kasei> bglimm: might have different test folders for different entailment regimes.
Birte Glimm: might have different test folders for different entailment regimes. ←
14:40:48 <kasei> ... or different vocab for declaring entailment details.
... or different vocab for declaring entailment details. ←
14:41:21 <kasei> ... something like :resultsRDF and :resultsRDFS
... something like :resultsRDF and :resultsRDFS ←
14:41:31 <kasei> ... different answers for different entailment
... different answers for different entailment ←
14:41:37 <AxelPolleres> sd:entailment ?
Souripriya Das: entailment ? [ Scribe Assist by Axel Polleres ] ←
14:41:45 <AndyS> [] :resultsEntailment <regime name>
Andy Seaborne: [] :resultsEntailment <regime name> ←
14:42:12 <kasei> Zakim, who is talking?
Zakim, who is talking? ←
14:42:23 <Zakim> kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (28%)
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (28%) ←
14:42:28 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description/#id247660 sd:entailRegime ?
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description/#id247660 sd:entailRegime ? ←
14:42:33 <kasei> AxelPolleres: sd:entailmentRegime an option?
Axel Polleres: sd:entailmentRegime an option? ←
14:42:54 <kasei> ... you want to assign the property to the results?
... you want to assign the property to the results? ←
14:43:08 <kasei> bglimm: if you provide different results, you'd have to do that for all the tests.
Birte Glimm: if you provide different results, you'd have to do that for all the tests. ←
14:43:26 <kasei> ... run the test and then choose which result set is appropriate to compare against.
... run the test and then choose which result set is appropriate to compare against. ←
14:43:58 <kasei> AxelPolleres: I would have thought you'd describe data graph with an entailment regime associated with it.
Axel Polleres: I would have thought you'd describe data graph with an entailment regime associated with it. ←
14:44:13 <kasei> bglimm: always one entailment regime per test.
Birte Glimm: always one entailment regime per test. ←
14:44:26 <kasei> I thought we modeled this in the SD specifically to be able to do one regime per graph?
I thought we modeled this in the SD specifically to be able to do one regime per graph? ←
14:44:46 <bglimm> did we? I thought this is still open?
Birte Glimm: did we? I thought this is still open? ←
14:45:05 <kasei> AxelPolleres: not sure if we had agreement on entailment per graph
Axel Polleres: not sure if we had agreement on entailment per graph ←
14:45:26 <AndyS> Reality is that test suite is not comprehensive. Design for 90%. More helpful to cover common parts anyway.
Andy Seaborne: Reality is that test suite is not comprehensive. Design for 90%. More helpful to cover common parts anyway. ←
14:45:31 <kasei> bglimm: answer depends on the regime
Birte Glimm: answer depends on the regime ←
14:46:11 <kasei> AxelPolleres: do you expect one regime for all of the graphs (named and default)?
Axel Polleres: do you expect one regime for all of the graphs (named and default)? ←
14:46:20 <kasei> bglimm: would need to know in advance
Birte Glimm: would need to know in advance ←
14:46:32 <kasei> AxelPolleres: when you write down the data, give properties to state which entailment regime you want.
Axel Polleres: when you write down the data, give properties to state which entailment regime you want. ←
14:47:03 <AxelPolleres> qt:data <g1>. g1 sd:entailmentRegime RDFS ...
Axel Polleres: qt:data <g1>. g1 sd:entailmentRegime RDFS ... ←
14:47:33 <kasei> ... could define entailment regime per graph. don't know if we want to allow this.
... could define entailment regime per graph. don't know if we want to allow this. ←
14:47:59 <kasei> bglimm: means systems that don't support the regime shouldn't run the test.
Birte Glimm: means systems that don't support the regime shouldn't run the test. ←
14:48:21 <kasei> ... you can still run the test, but will probably fail if you don't support the regime.
... you can still run the test, but will probably fail if you don't support the regime. ←
14:48:38 <kasei> we do this already with :approved... need to check the manifest to know if you should run the test.
we do this already with :approved... need to check the manifest to know if you should run the test. ←
14:48:43 <AndyS> In DAWG, the output of tests is an EARL report which is what is submitted in the CR process.
Andy Seaborne: In DAWG, the output of tests is an EARL report which is what is submitted in the CR process. ←
14:49:43 <kasei> AxelPolleres: add that in the manifest?
Axel Polleres: add that in the manifest? ←
14:50:01 <AndyS> There is also the vocab file.
Andy Seaborne: There is also the vocab file. ←
14:50:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to add respective example/description of entailment tests in the README
ACTION: Axel to add respective example/description of entailment tests in the README ←
14:50:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-268 - Add respective example/description of entailment tests in the README [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-268 - Add respective example/description of entailment tests in the README [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07]. ←
14:50:48 <kasei> AxelPolleres: open actions for test cases.
Axel Polleres: open actions for test cases. ←
14:51:10 <kasei> ... some proj expr. covered by aggregate tests.
... some proj expr. covered by aggregate tests. ←
14:51:30 <kasei> OlivierCorby: I sent test cases for project expressions.
Olivier Corby: I sent test cases for project expressions. ←
14:52:29 <kasei> OlivierCorby: there's an error in the first test case.
Olivier Corby: there's an error in the first test case. ←
14:52:43 <kasei> AxelPolleres: please put future test cases in manifest format.
Axel Polleres: please put future test cases in manifest format. ←
14:53:19 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-196
Axel Polleres: close ACTION-196 ←
14:53:19 <trackbot> ACTION-196 Collect test cases for Project Expressions. closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-196 Collect test cases for Project Expressions. closed ←
14:54:00 <kasei> bglimm: three folders of tests already for my tests.
Birte Glimm: three folders of tests already for my tests. ←
14:54:12 <kasei> ... can put them all together and update the manifest to declare entailment regimes.
... can put them all together and update the manifest to declare entailment regimes. ←
14:54:45 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to put Aggr test cases in manifest format inside CVS
ACTION: axel to put Aggr test cases in manifest format inside CVS ←
14:54:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-269 - Put Aggr test cases in manifest format inside CVS [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-269 - Put Aggr test cases in manifest format inside CVS [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07]. ←
14:55:37 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Olivier to put subqueries, prop paths, project espressions test cases in manifest format and add to CVS
ACTION: Olivier to put subqueries, prop paths, project espressions test cases in manifest format and add to CVS ←
14:55:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-270 - Put subqueries, prop paths, project espressions test cases in manifest format and add to CVS [on Olivier Corby - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-270 - Put subqueries, prop paths, project espressions test cases in manifest format and add to CVS [on Olivier Corby - due 2010-07-07]. ←
14:56:02 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-191
Axel Polleres: close ACTION-191 ←
14:56:02 <trackbot> ACTION-191 Collect test cases for aggegate functions closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-191 Collect test cases for aggegate functions closed ←
14:56:10 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-193
Axel Polleres: close ACTION-193 ←
14:56:10 <trackbot> ACTION-193 Collect testcases for subqueries closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-193 Collect testcases for subqueries closed ←
14:56:25 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-195
Axel Polleres: close ACTION-195 ←
14:56:25 <trackbot> ACTION-195 Collect test cases for Project Expressions. closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-195 Collect test cases for Project Expressions. closed ←
14:56:34 <kasei> AndyS: does OlivierCorby have CVS access?
Andy Seaborne: does OlivierCorby have CVS access? ←
14:56:40 <kasei> OlivierCorby: no.
Olivier Corby: no. ←
14:56:50 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-198
Axel Polleres: close ACTION-198 ←
14:56:50 <trackbot> ACTION-198 Collect test cases for property paths closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-198 Collect test cases for property paths closed ←
14:56:58 <AxelPolleres> ivan?
Axel Polleres: ivan? ←
14:57:18 <kasei> AxelPolleres: will check with team contacts about CVS access.
Axel Polleres: will check with team contacts about CVS access. ←
14:57:19 <ivan> yes?
Ivan Herman: yes? ←
14:57:37 <AxelPolleres> ivan can you check CVS access for Olivier Corby?
Axel Polleres: ivan can you check CVS access for Olivier Corby? ←
14:57:45 <AxelPolleres> ... and can I give you an action on that?
Axel Polleres: ... and can I give you an action on that? ←
14:58:02 <ivan> yes
Ivan Herman: yes ←
14:58:05 <kasei> AndyS: took a lot of reorganization work in DAWG to get things sorted out and in the correct syntax, format.
Andy Seaborne: took a lot of reorganization work in DAWG to get things sorted out and in the correct syntax, format. ←
14:58:21 <kasei> ... if we can get things in the right format early on, it will make things much easier as we progress
... if we can get things in the right format early on, it will make things much easier as we progress ←
14:58:25 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: ivan to get back to Olivier on CVS access
ACTION: ivan to get back to Olivier on CVS access ←
14:58:25 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan ←
14:58:25 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail)
Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail) ←
14:58:46 <ivan> but what Olivier has to do is to send me or Sandro (or both:-) an ssh public key, together with his W3C account name
Ivan Herman: but what Olivier has to do is to send me or Sandro (or both:-) an ssh public key, together with his W3C account name ←
14:58:57 <ivan> OlivierCorby?
Ivan Herman: OlivierCorby? ←
14:58:58 <kasei> ... we've got material in email. should get it into CVS in proper formats.
... we've got material in email. should get it into CVS in proper formats. ←
14:59:13 <kasei> ... important to get things sorted out now and into CVS.
... important to get things sorted out now and into CVS. ←
14:59:18 <LeeF> Yes :)
Lee Feigenbaum: Yes :) ←
14:59:20 <LeeF> a LOT
Lee Feigenbaum: a LOT ←
14:59:30 <kasei> ... LeeF and ericP spent a *lot* of time sorting it out last time.
... LeeF and ericP spent a *lot* of time sorting it out last time. ←
14:59:30 <LeeF> organizing and reorganizing in particular
Lee Feigenbaum: organizing and reorganizing in particular ←
14:59:37 <ivan> AxelPolleres, which subdirectory do you want Olivier to have access to?
Ivan Herman: AxelPolleres, which subdirectory do you want Olivier to have access to? ←
15:00:00 <kasei> ... as a group we need discipline. very important to generate tests, but also important to generate them in a way that doesn't cause extra work.
... as a group we need discipline. very important to generate tests, but also important to generate them in a way that doesn't cause extra work. ←
15:00:14 <kasei> AxelPolleres: we have a problem if we don't have a person responsible for test cases.
Axel Polleres: we have a problem if we don't have a person responsible for test cases. ←
15:01:10 <kasei> ... standard agendum for weekly telecon to collect test cases, discuss examples, dispatch actions to add to the test suite.
... standard agendum for weekly telecon to collect test cases, discuss examples, dispatch actions to add to the test suite. ←
15:01:16 <kasei> thanks AndyS
thanks AndyS ←
15:02:22 <kasei> LeeF: key thing is to point out early on which test cases we'll discuss on the next week's call
Lee Feigenbaum: key thing is to point out early on which test cases we'll discuss on the next week's call ←
15:02:44 <AxelPolleres> standard agendum should include "test cases" collect and approve new test cases.
Axel Polleres: standard agendum should include "test cases" collect and approve new test cases. ←
15:02:45 <kasei> ... last time, people didn't look because announced at last minute.
... last time, people didn't look because announced at last minute. ←
15:02:52 <AndyS> ARQ can execute test manifests using command "arq.qtest [manifest]" -- that will at least validate the form (you may disagree with the results!)
Andy Seaborne: ARQ can execute test manifests using command "arq.qtest [manifest]" -- that will at least validate the form (you may disagree with the results!) ←
15:02:58 <kasei> ... should do this, but a hard thing to do well.
... should do this, but a hard thing to do well. ←
15:03:10 <AndyS> I can fix it to be maximum SPARQL 1.1 compatible in a few days if that helps anyone.
Andy Seaborne: I can fix it to be maximum SPARQL 1.1 compatible in a few days if that helps anyone. ←
15:03:20 <kasei> AxelPolleres: can collect in agenda tests which have been in email.
Axel Polleres: can collect in agenda tests which have been in email. ←
15:03:46 <kasei> ... if we have test case editor, can have them watch mailing list and raise them before telecons.
... if we have test case editor, can have them watch mailing list and raise them before telecons. ←
15:03:46 <AndyS> currently, call your files "???.arq" to get SPARQL 1.1 as it works in 1.0 compatibility mode otherwise.
Andy Seaborne: currently, call your files "???.arq" to get SPARQL 1.1 as it works in 1.0 compatibility mode otherwise. ←
15:04:16 <AndyS> (means we might have a "[] rdf:type :SPARQL_10")
Andy Seaborne: (means we might have a "[] rdf:type :SPARQL_10") ←
15:04:35 <kasei> AxelPolleres: what do we do with areas where we don't have test cases at the moment?
Axel Polleres: what do we do with areas where we don't have test cases at the moment? ←
15:04:46 <kasei> ... trivial one is update. should collect update test cases.
... trivial one is update. should collect update test cases. ←
15:05:00 <kasei> ... could somebody volunteer to write down some update test cases?
... could somebody volunteer to write down some update test cases? ←
15:05:14 <pgearon> I can make a start
Paul Gearon: I can make a start ←
15:05:22 <kasei> ... could be just writing down tests we already have in manifest format. browse through email discussions on update.
... could be just writing down tests we already have in manifest format. browse through email discussions on update. ←
15:05:41 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: paul to collect initial update test cases and put them in CVS in manifest format.
ACTION: paul to collect initial update test cases and put them in CVS in manifest format. ←
15:05:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-271 - Collect initial update test cases and put them in CVS in manifest format. [on Paul Gearon - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-271 - Collect initial update test cases and put them in CVS in manifest format. [on Paul Gearon - due 2010-07-07]. ←
15:05:48 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:05:48 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:06:00 <kasei> AxelPolleres: will anybody else volunteer as well?
Axel Polleres: will anybody else volunteer as well? ←
15:06:05 <MattPerry> I can take a shot at it
Matthew Perry: I can take a shot at it ←
15:06:34 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Matt to collect some Update test cases and put them in CVS
ACTION: Matt to collect some Update test cases and put them in CVS ←
15:06:34 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Matt
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - Matt ←
15:06:56 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Matthew to collect some Update test cases and put them in CVS
ACTION: Matthew to collect some Update test cases and put them in CVS ←
15:06:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-272 - Collect some Update test cases and put them in CVS [on Matthew Perry - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-272 - Collect some Update test cases and put them in CVS [on Matthew Perry - due 2010-07-07]. ←
15:07:42 <kasei> AxelPolleres: let us know on the mailing list on status updates
Axel Polleres: let us know on the mailing list on status updates ←
15:08:04 <kasei> ... other areas: Protocol, federated queries, service description...
... other areas: Protocol, federated queries, service description... ←
15:08:29 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
15:08:29 <kasei> ... opinions on any of these?
... opinions on any of these? ←
15:08:33 <bglimm> no
Birte Glimm: no ←
15:08:37 <pgearon> �q+
Paul Gearon: �q+ ←
15:08:38 <bglimm> ack bglimm
Birte Glimm: ack bglimm ←
15:08:39 <Zakim> bglimm, you wanted to ask about manifest extension for ent. regimes
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm, you wanted to ask about manifest extension for ent. regimes ←
15:08:42 <AxelPolleres> ack bglimm
Axel Polleres: ack bglimm ←
15:09:13 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:09:13 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:09:27 <kasei> pgearon: is SERVICE applied to a releative URL?
Paul Gearon: is SERVICE applied to a releative URL? ←
15:09:32 <AndyS> Yes.
Andy Seaborne: Yes. ←
15:09:42 <kasei> AxelPolleres: federated query test cases?
Axel Polleres: federated query test cases? ←
15:09:47 <AndyS> And no - parser converts to absolute.
Andy Seaborne: And no - parser converts to absolute. ←
15:09:48 <AxelPolleres> we are at test cases for fed.queries now
Axel Polleres: we are at test cases for fed.queries now ←
15:09:54 <kasei> pgearon: thinking how to set up a general test for SERVICE keyword.
Paul Gearon: thinking how to set up a general test for SERVICE keyword. ←
15:10:11 <kasei> AndyS: no relative URLs. everything is resolved to absolute URLs before you get to it.
Andy Seaborne: no relative URLs. everything is resolved to absolute URLs before you get to it. ←
15:10:26 <kasei> ... you may want relative URLs, but RDF is all about absolute URLs.
... you may want relative URLs, but RDF is all about absolute URLs. ←
15:10:36 <kasei> AxelPolleres: might be useful to have test cases for that.
Axel Polleres: might be useful to have test cases for that. ←
15:10:43 <kasei> ... what do we need for describing federated query test cases?
... what do we need for describing federated query test cases? ←
15:10:56 <kasei> ... need graph store and services.
... need graph store and services. ←
15:11:03 <kasei> ... all of those have pre- and post-states.
... all of those have pre- and post-states. ←
15:11:30 <AndyS> SERVICE <../service2> {} will be "SERVICE <file:///dir/service2> ...." which is prob not what you want :-) use BASE (but whole query affected)
Andy Seaborne: SERVICE <../service2> {} will be "SERVICE <file:///dir/service2> ...." which is prob not what you want :-) use BASE (but whole query affected) ←
15:11:33 <kasei> AxelPolleres: we have SERVICE in the WHERE part of Update, right?
Axel Polleres: we have SERVICE in the WHERE part of Update, right? ←
15:12:12 <kasei> ... we should be fine if we add to the manifest vocabulary some infrastructure to define the datasets of the services.
... we should be fine if we add to the manifest vocabulary some infrastructure to define the datasets of the services. ←
15:12:56 <AxelPolleres> how about adding something like qt:service [ qt:seviceName ... ;qt:dada ; qt:dataGraph ... ]
Axel Polleres: how about adding something like qt:service [ qt:seviceName ... ;qt:dada ; qt:dataGraph ... ] ←
15:13:23 <AxelPolleres> s/sevice/service
Axel Polleres: s/sevice/service ←
15:13:27 <kasei> not sure how the test eval will actually work...
not sure how the test eval will actually work... ←
15:13:35 <AxelPolleres> any objections?
Axel Polleres: any objections? ←
15:14:02 <kasei> pgearon: worried you've moved the hard part out of the query and into the (manifest?) file.
Paul Gearon: worried you've moved the hard part out of the query and into the (manifest?) file. ←
15:14:24 <kasei> ... at the moment when we describe locations, it's in the manifest. in the protocol you can override graphs and named graphs.
... at the moment when we describe locations, it's in the manifest. in the protocol you can override graphs and named graphs. ←
15:14:42 <kasei> ... there's no such thing in queries.
... there's no such thing in queries. ←
15:14:58 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:15:27 <kasei> AndyS: w3c could run a test service with the right data behind it.
Andy Seaborne: w3c could run a test service with the right data behind it. ←
15:15:28 <pgearon> Oooh, I like that :-)
Paul Gearon: Oooh, I like that :-) ←
15:15:49 <kasei> ... if we want something to test the client side, we may need to provide the server side to test against.
... if we want something to test the client side, we may need to provide the server side to test against. ←
15:16:29 <kasei> AxelPolleres: that is an option. not sure if we need both sever side and local-equivalent based just on the manifests.
Axel Polleres: that is an option. not sure if we need both sever side and local-equivalent based just on the manifests. ←
15:16:49 <kasei> AndyS: not sure how W3C would feel about running conformance tests against non-w3c services.
Andy Seaborne: not sure how W3C would feel about running conformance tests against non-w3c services. ←
15:17:15 <kasei> ... we could keep the things sent over the wire simple. BGP against a small amount of data.
... we could keep the things sent over the wire simple. BGP against a small amount of data. ←
15:17:32 <kasei> ... could put on sparql.org, but then you're depending on that being there and having the right implementation.
... could put on sparql.org, but then you're depending on that being there and having the right implementation. ←
15:17:47 <kasei> ... execution on server side shouldn't be that complicated since testing client side.
... execution on server side shouldn't be that complicated since testing client side. ←
15:17:59 <AxelPolleres> aren't we also depending on the data there?
Axel Polleres: aren't we also depending on the data there? ←
15:18:01 <kasei> ... naming-wise, sparql.org is relatively neutral.
... naming-wise, sparql.org is relatively neutral. ←
15:18:03 <pgearon> for kasei: SPARQL 1.0 can set the FROM and FROM NAMED for a query with the protocol. Because of this we can describe them in the test manifest. However, SERVICE is not configurable in this way, and is completely embedded inside the query. Hence we can't just put it into the manifest.
Paul Gearon: for kasei: SPARQL 1.0 can set the FROM and FROM NAMED for a query with the protocol. Because of this we can describe them in the test manifest. However, SERVICE is not configurable in this way, and is completely embedded inside the query. Hence we can't just put it into the manifest. ←
15:18:19 <kasei> thanks pgearon
thanks pgearon ←
15:19:08 <kasei> AxelPolleres: can discuss with team contacts about options
Axel Polleres: can discuss with team contacts about options ←
15:19:26 <pgearon> q+
Paul Gearon: q+ ←
15:19:35 <AndyS> q-
Andy Seaborne: q- ←
15:19:37 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to ask team contacts on what we can do towards a central service for SPARQL SERVICE testing...
ACTION: Axel to ask team contacts on what we can do towards a central service for SPARQL SERVICE testing... ←
15:19:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-273 - Ask team contacts on what we can do towards a central service for SPARQL SERVICE testing... [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-273 - Ask team contacts on what we can do towards a central service for SPARQL SERVICE testing... [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07]. ←
15:19:59 <kasei> AxelPolleres: not sure if it will work. there has to be a guaranteed service running to answer queries.
Axel Polleres: not sure if it will work. there has to be a guaranteed service running to answer queries. ←
15:20:21 <kasei> ... if it needs to do anything complex (join processing), may be difficult
... if it needs to do anything complex (join processing), may be difficult ←
15:20:23 <pgearon> q?
Paul Gearon: q? ←
15:20:54 <kasei> pgearon: can see a few options. first, just put in http localhost.
Paul Gearon: can see a few options. first, just put in http localhost. ←
15:21:14 <kasei> ... alternatively, put in example.com which won't work but will show what to do.
... alternatively, put in example.com which won't work but will show what to do. ←
15:21:27 <kasei> ... could put in variable. %X or something.
... could put in variable. %X or something. ←
15:21:44 <kasei> AxelPolleres: need exta vocabulary to indicate what data we expect to be on those sources.
Axel Polleres: need exta vocabulary to indicate what data we expect to be on those sources. ←
15:22:24 <pgearon> This reminds me of a regular request I've had for parameterized queries
Paul Gearon: This reminds me of a regular request I've had for parameterized queries ←
15:22:55 <kasei> AxelPolleres: do we have volunteers to write down some test cases? I can do some for federated queries in the manifest.
Axel Polleres: do we have volunteers to write down some test cases? I can do some for federated queries in the manifest. ←
15:23:42 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to draft some extra bit for federated query tests manifest vocabulary plus example.
ACTION: axel to draft some extra bit for federated query tests manifest vocabulary plus example. ←
15:23:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-274 - Draft some extra bit for federated query tests manifest vocabulary plus example. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-274 - Draft some extra bit for federated query tests manifest vocabulary plus example. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07]. ←
15:24:03 <AxelPolleres> volunteers for adding test cases for fed query?
Axel Polleres: volunteers for adding test cases for fed query? ←
15:24:38 <kasei> AxelPolleres: anything to do for HTTP Update protocol, service description?
Axel Polleres: anything to do for HTTP Update protocol, service description? ←
15:24:58 <kasei> I can think of one or two simple SD tests, but it's open-ended by design, so hard to test.
I can think of one or two simple SD tests, but it's open-ended by design, so hard to test. ←
15:25:09 <kasei> LeeF: protocol is annoying to test.
Lee Feigenbaum: protocol is annoying to test. ←
15:25:40 <kasei> ... we didn't have rigorous tests last time. not a good approach. haven't thought about if we can do better this time around.
... we didn't have rigorous tests last time. not a good approach. haven't thought about if we can do better this time around. ←
15:25:47 <kasei> ... don't know how to automate it.
... don't know how to automate it. ←
15:25:54 <kasei> ... tested response codes.
... tested response codes. ←
15:26:12 <kasei> ... Elias Torres may be able to help reconstruct memory of what we did.
... Elias Torres may be able to help reconstruct memory of what we did. ←
15:26:13 <AndyS> Two kinds: client-side and server-side tests
Andy Seaborne: Two kinds: client-side and server-side tests ←
15:26:36 <kasei> AxelPolleres: could add to test vocab terms for expected http response codes.
Axel Polleres: could add to test vocab terms for expected http response codes. ←
15:27:30 <kasei> LeeF: testing http response codes not very interesting. will be 200 OK.
Lee Feigenbaum: testing http response codes not very interesting. will be 200 OK. ←
15:27:44 <kasei> AxelPolleres: leave it with the editors.
Axel Polleres: leave it with the editors. ←
15:27:53 <LeeF> OK
Lee Feigenbaum: OK ←
15:27:53 <AxelPolleres> protocol, leave it with the editors for now...
Axel Polleres: protocol, leave it with the editors for now... ←
15:27:59 <AndyS> 200
Andy Seaborne: 200 ←
15:28:39 <AxelPolleres> service-description equally unclear, even unclearer...
Axel Polleres: service-description equally unclear, even unclearer... ←
15:29:11 <AxelPolleres> leave sd out of test cases for now.
Axel Polleres: leave sd out of test cases for now. ←
15:29:43 <kasei> AxelPolleres: implementation status?
Axel Polleres: implementation status? ←
15:29:51 <kasei> ... how did people implement tests last time?
... how did people implement tests last time? ←
15:30:14 <kasei> q+
q+ ←
15:30:18 <pgearon> q-
Paul Gearon: q- ←
15:30:26 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/impl-report-ql
Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/impl-report-ql ←
15:31:30 <AndyS> Current: post REC results included: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/implementations
Andy Seaborne: Current: post REC results included: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/implementations ←
15:32:00 <AxelPolleres> greg arguing to improve the explanation of test cases
Axel Polleres: greg arguing to improve the explanation of test cases ←
15:34:27 <kasei> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2 ←
15:34:41 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#updateevaltests
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html#updateevaltests ←
15:35:03 <AndyS> Tests README = README and formal def? Split?
Andy Seaborne: Tests README = README and formal def? Split? ←
15:35:38 <kasei> AxelPolleres: need to think about the structure of these documents
Axel Polleres: need to think about the structure of these documents ←
15:35:44 <kasei> ... need explanation of manifest format
... need explanation of manifest format ←
15:35:48 <kasei> ... list of test cases
... list of test cases ←
15:35:59 <AxelPolleres> Explanation of manifest format, we need a list of test cases, what else?
Axel Polleres: Explanation of manifest format, we need a list of test cases, what else? ←
15:36:01 <kasei> overview document/paragraph
overview document/paragraph ←
15:36:31 <kasei> AndyS: indroductory material would be great. but infinite blackhole of what we can do to make tests easy to use.
Andy Seaborne: indroductory material would be great. but infinite blackhole of what we can do to make tests easy to use. ←
15:36:35 <kasei> ... tradeoff with time.
... tradeoff with time. ←
15:36:44 <AxelPolleres> and where does more introductory material go to, e.g. such that only "approved" docs need to be passed, etc.?
Axel Polleres: and where does more introductory material go to, e.g. such that only "approved" docs need to be passed, etc.? ←
15:36:53 <kasei> ... always more explanation or tutorials, etc. that we want to create.
... always more explanation or tutorials, etc. that we want to create. ←
15:36:54 <LeeF> Test suite work is pretty thankless - it's not an easy thing to say, but I think things like great documentation are going to exist if someone steps up and creates them
Lee Feigenbaum: Test suite work is pretty thankless - it's not an easy thing to say, but I think things like great documentation are going to exist if someone steps up and creates them ←
15:36:58 <LeeF> we're not going to hold up the schedule for it
Lee Feigenbaum: we're not going to hold up the schedule for it ←
15:37:21 <kasei> agree. it's just that there didn't feel like there was *any* introductory text last time.
agree. it's just that there didn't feel like there was *any* introductory text last time. ←
15:37:54 <LeeF> we probably could have written an OK intro in the time we've been discussing this :-)
Lee Feigenbaum: we probably could have written an OK intro in the time we've been discussing this :-) ←
15:38:11 <kasei> AxelPolleres: for the moment, leave structure/tests in place, think about how to improve.
Axel Polleres: for the moment, leave structure/tests in place, think about how to improve. ←
15:38:19 <kasei> ... not sure what else to do with it.
... not sure what else to do with it. ←
15:38:35 <AndyS> We had 14 reports last time.
Andy Seaborne: We had 14 reports last time. ←
15:38:46 <kasei> hard to know how to improve because there are so few *new* implementors to ask what they have issues with.
hard to know how to improve because there are so few *new* implementors to ask what they have issues with. ←
15:38:51 <AxelPolleres> How to run the test suite section in either TestCases or Test Cases structure document?
Axel Polleres: How to run the test suite section in either TestCases or Test Cases structure document? ←
15:39:18 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to add a dummy section in test cases structure doc
ACTION: axel to add a dummy section in test cases structure doc ←
15:39:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-275 - Add a dummy section in test cases structure doc [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-275 - Add a dummy section in test cases structure doc [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-07]. ←
15:39:36 <kasei> AxelPolleres: can start from old test cases document.
Axel Polleres: can start from old test cases document. ←
15:40:08 <LeeF> URL?
Lee Feigenbaum: URL? ←
15:40:30 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2 ←
15:41:04 <kasei> LeeF: /tests/r2 was automatically generated, but not sure with what.
Lee Feigenbaum: /tests/r2 was automatically generated, but not sure with what. ←
15:41:10 <kasei> ... ericP probably knows.
... ericP probably knows. ←
15:41:35 <kasei> giving perl a bad name!
giving perl a bad name! ←
15:41:45 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: LeeF to find out whether the scripts for auto-generating http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2 are reusable?
ACTION: LeeF to find out whether the scripts for auto-generating http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2 are reusable? ←
15:41:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-276 - Find out whether the scripts for auto-generating http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2 are reusable? [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-276 - Find out whether the scripts for auto-generating http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/r2 are reusable? [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-07-07]. ←
15:42:05 <LeeF> i thought i was giving eric a bad name :)
Lee Feigenbaum: i thought i was giving eric a bad name :) ←
15:42:14 <kasei> ah, maybe
ah, maybe ←
15:42:16 <AxelPolleres> topic: AOB?
15:42:22 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
15:42:28 <kasei> q-
q- ←
15:42:46 <kasei> AxelPolleres: thanks for the work
Axel Polleres: thanks for the work ←
15:43:05 <kasei> ... start seeing tests in CSV soon hopefully.
... start seeing tests in CSV soon hopefully. ←
15:43:26 <AxelPolleres> adjoirned
Axel Polleres: adjoirned ←
15:43:28 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
15:43:30 <pgearon> thank you
Paul Gearon: thank you ←
15:43:34 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
15:43:35 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
15:43:37 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby ←
15:43:39 <kasei> link to minutes publishing page?
link to minutes publishing page? ←
15:43:44 <kasei> AndyS?
AndyS? ←
15:43:45 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make minutes public
Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make minutes public ←
15:43:45 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', AxelPolleres. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
15:43:57 <AndyS> Yes greg?
Andy Seaborne: Yes greg? ←
15:44:01 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
15:44:05 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
Axel Polleres: rrsagent, make records public ←
15:44:09 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2010-06-30 15:57:14 UTC by 'apollere2', comments: None