SPARQL Working Group

Minutes of 27 April 2010

Seen

Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Chimezie Ogbuji, David Charboneau, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gregory Williams, Matthew Perry, Olivier Corby, Paul Gearon, Steve Harris

IRC Log

Original and Editable Wiki Version

Resolutions

1. Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-20 link
2. Accept rewording for condition 4 for BGP extensions as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html link

Topics

1. admin

   we have to decide re-schedule to LC and Rec, need for further f2f among chairs soon

2. actions from last time on rewordings

   ISSUE-49 remains open, should probably be closed upon ACTION-227 been completed.

3. federated query document

   in principle we want to publish fed queries as separate doc in the next round.

4. next publications

   all editors to resend their status summary to the list, please try to get to reviewable status by next week.

13:51:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/27-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/27-sparql-irc ←

13:51:51 <AxelPolleres> zakim, thi will be SPARQL

Axel Polleres: zakim, thi will be SPARQL ←

13:51:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'thi will be SPARQL', AxelPolleres

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'thi will be SPARQL', AxelPolleres ←

13:52:00 <AxelPolleres> zakim, this will be sparql

Axel Polleres: zakim, this will be sparql ←

13:52:00 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes ←

13:57:31 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←

13:57:38 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←

13:57:41 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P1 is me ←

13:57:41 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←

13:58:33 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby ←

13:58:39 <Zakim> +pgearon

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←

13:58:41 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aaaa ←

13:58:50 <MattPerry> zakim, aaaa is me

Matthew Perry: zakim, aaaa is me ←

13:58:50 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry; got it ←

13:59:27 <Zakim> +bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm ←

14:00:04 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.310.729.aabb ←

14:00:15 <kasei> Zakim, aabb is me

Gregory Williams: Zakim, aabb is me ←

14:00:15 <Zakim> +kasei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it ←

14:00:33 <Zakim> +dcharbon2

Zakim IRC Bot: +dcharbon2 ←

14:01:09 <Zakim> + +04312aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +04312aacc ←

14:01:12 <Zakim> +[Garlik]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[Garlik] ←

14:01:26 <SteveH_> Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily SteveH

Steve Harris: Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily SteveH ←

14:01:26 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←

14:01:27 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←

14:01:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm, kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm, kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH ←

14:01:51 <AxelPolleres> Agenda... http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-04-27

Axel Polleres: Agenda... http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-04-27 ←

14:02:15 <kasei> very loud typing

Gregory Williams: very loud typing ←

14:02:33 <Zakim> + +1.216.636.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.636.aadd ←

14:02:37 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←

14:02:37 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←

14:02:51 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aadd is Chime

Axel Polleres: Zakim, aadd is Chime ←

14:02:51 <Zakim> +Chime; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Chime; got it ←

14:03:34 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin

14:03:39 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-20

PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-20 ←

14:03:56 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-20

RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-04-20 ←

14:04:43 <OlivierCorby> Next F2F location ?

Olivier Corby: Next F2F location ? ←

14:05:18 <OlivierCorby> Colocate with TPAC in Lyon France ?

Olivier Corby: Colocate with TPAC in Lyon France ? ←

14:06:00 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me ←

14:06:00 <Zakim> sorry, chimezie, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, chimezie, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←

14:06:01 <bglimm> When is the TPAC in Lyon?

Birte Glimm: When is the TPAC in Lyon? ←

14:06:14 <AndyS> November 1-5

Andy Seaborne: November 1-5 ←

14:06:16 <SteveH_> I can't do those dates

Steve Harris: I can't do those dates ←

14:06:26 <kasei> not impossible, but I suspect unlikely that I'd be able to make it.

Gregory Williams: not impossible, but I suspect unlikely that I'd be able to make it. ←

14:06:27 <SteveH_> I can do 1-3

Steve Harris: I can do 1-3 ←

14:06:36 <chimezie> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←

14:06:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, Chime

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, Chime ←

14:06:39 <AxelPolleres> q?

Axel Polleres: q? ←

14:06:44 <bglimm> Should be ok

Birte Glimm: Should be ok ←

14:06:47 <AndyS> ISWC is Nov 7-11

Andy Seaborne: ISWC is Nov 7-11 ←

14:06:48 <chimezie> Zakim, Chime is me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, Chime is me ←

14:06:48 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +chimezie; got it ←

14:07:04 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/05/sparql-phase-II-charter.html

Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/05/sparql-phase-II-charter.html ←

14:07:37 <SteveH_> I hope that we don't need a F2F by nov...

Steve Harris: I hope that we don't need a F2F by nov... ←

14:07:46 <AndyS> What is the timescale? LC, CR etc?

Andy Seaborne: What is the timescale? LC, CR etc? ←

14:07:53 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chimezie Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me ←

14:07:53 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should now be muted ←

14:08:12 <OlivierCorby> Do we need a F2F before Nov ?

Olivier Corby: Do we need a F2F before Nov ? ←

14:08:28 <bglimm> It probably depends on how many/what kind of comments we get during LC

Birte Glimm: It probably depends on how many/what kind of comments we get during LC ←

14:08:33 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/05/sparql-phase-II-charter.html#milestones

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2009/05/sparql-phase-II-charter.html#milestones ←

14:09:49 <OlivierCorby> Last Call in June

Olivier Corby: Last Call in June ←

14:10:04 <AndyS> Unlikely.

Andy Seaborne: Unlikely. ←

14:11:20 <OlivierCorby> Last Call without F2F ?

Olivier Corby: Last Call without F2F ? ←

14:11:55 <AxelPolleres> we might be able to do without another f2f2, before LC is unlikely planningwise.

Axel Polleres: we might be able to do without another f2f2, before LC is unlikely planningwise. ←

14:13:01 <AxelPolleres> andyS; we might just block some solid time rather than all needing to travel.

Axel Polleres: andyS; we might just block some solid time rather than all needing to travel. ←

14:13:23 <AxelPolleres> ... specifical telecons and realistic deadlines.

Axel Polleres: ... specifical telecons and realistic deadlines. ←

14:13:45 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←

14:13:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, chimezie (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, chimezie (muted) ←

14:14:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec

ACTION: come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec ←

14:14:04 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - come

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - come ←

14:14:15 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec

ACTION: axel to come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec ←

14:14:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-226 - Come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-05-04].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-226 - Come up with a proposed re-schedule and suggestion on how to proceed until Rec [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-05-04]. ←

14:14:42 <bglimm> there was a comment by Kjetil

Birte Glimm: there was a comment by Kjetil ←

14:14:49 <OlivierCorby> Comment handling: not tody

Olivier Corby: Comment handling: not tody ←

14:14:57 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←

14:14:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, chimezie (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, MattPerry, bglimm (muted), kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, chimezie (muted) ←

14:15:01 <OlivierCorby> s/tody/today

Olivier Corby: s/tody/today ←

14:15:13 <OlivierCorby> Liaisons

Olivier Corby: Liaisons ←

14:15:22 <OlivierCorby> RIF to PR

Olivier Corby: RIF to PR ←

14:15:25 <AxelPolleres> RIF decided to move to PR

Axel Polleres: RIF decided to move to PR ←

14:15:25 <AxelPolleres> summary: we have to decide re-schedule to LC and Rec, need for further f2f among chairs soon

14:15:51 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

14:15:51 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

14:16:04 <AxelPolleres> topic: actions from last time on rewordings

14:16:06 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html

14:16:16 <AxelPolleres> q?

14:16:26 <bglimm> Each SPARQL extension MUST provide conditions, which guarantee

14:16:26 <bglimm>      that the set of triples obtained by instantiating BGP with each

14:16:27 <bglimm>      solution μ is uniquely specified up to RDF graph equivalence, and

14:16:27 <bglimm>      SHOULD provide further conditions to prevent trivial infinite answers

14:16:27 <bglimm>      as appropriate to the regime.

14:17:26 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Accept rewording for condition 4 for BGP extensions as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html

14:17:52 <bglimm> +1

14:17:56 <AxelPolleres> +1

14:17:57 <chimezie> +1

14:18:00 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Accept rewording for condition 4 for BGP extensions as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0066.html

14:18:39 <AndyS> It's already done.

14:18:49 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me

14:18:49 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted

14:18:50 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/222

14:18:59 <bglimm> I already updated the entailment doc too to reflect the rewording

14:19:07 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile

14:19:07 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made

14:19:09 <Zakim> +EricP

14:19:16 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

14:19:16 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

14:20:32 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0067.html

14:21:26 <AxelPolleres>  ISSUE-49: can this  be closed wrt. rewording proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0067.html?

14:21:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-49 Is a graph an information resource notes added

14:23:11 <OlivierCorby> Question about URI with fragment

14:23:23 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to clarify question about URIs with fragment ids

14:23:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-227 - Clarify question about URIs with fragment ids [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-05-04].

14:24:31 <kasei> after reading that email, i'm still not sure which way we've resolved issue 49.

14:25:04 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: close issue-49 with rewording from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0067.html and ACTION-227

14:25:15 <kasei> q+

14:27:13 <kasei> before we resolve issue 49, could we see a draft response to KjetilK's comment email?

14:25:04 <AxelPolleres> summary: ISSUE-49 remains open, should probably be closed upon ACTION-227 been completed.

14:27:16 <AxelPolleres> topic: federated query document

14:27:18 <kasei> (after ericP)

14:27:26 <AxelPolleres> q?

14:27:33 <kasei> q-

14:28:41 <AxelPolleres> ericP: explains rationale behind SERVICE keyword

14:28:47 <OlivierCorby> Integrate service into query syntax

14:30:20 <kasei> ericP, link?

14:30:52 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/fed/service.xml

14:31:25 <AndyS> 4.2 link is "#update"  !!!!

14:32:24 <AxelPolleres> Eric: what about conformance, do we want all SPARQL implementations to support this?

14:33:09 <AxelPolleres> Axel: does this really raise the bar?

14:33:31 <OlivierCorby> q+

14:34:32 <AxelPolleres> olivier: syntax has URI , could we also have variable?

14:34:36 <AndyS> Grammar has variable : VarOrIRIref

14:34:59 <AxelPolleres> ericP: might have use cases

14:35:24 <AxelPolleres> ... for asking all endpoints I know.

14:35:24 <kasei> I see grammar having just IRIref...?

14:35:52 <AxelPolleres> andy: we could assure that at point of evaluation the variable needs to be bound

14:35:59 <AxelPolleres> s/assure/require/

14:36:42 <AxelPolleres> ericP: question is what interoperability we rerquire on behavior of that feature (variables for SERVICE)

14:36:57 <AxelPolleres> ... but raises the bar for implementers possibly.

14:37:12 <kasei> q+ to note that if SERVICE isn't required of 1.1 implementation, we should have a service description feature URI for it.

14:37:31 <AxelPolleres> ack OlivierCorby

14:38:09 <AxelPolleres> ack kasei

14:38:09 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to note that if SERVICE isn't required of 1.1 implementation, we should have a service description feature URI for it.

14:39:40 <AxelPolleres> axel: let's publish it with the next round, similar to property paths, as separate doc, requesting for comments.

14:40:22 <SteveH_> lots of background noise

14:41:03 <kasei> i like the variable idea, but it fills me with The Fear

14:41:29 <SteveH_> +1 to kasei

14:41:32 <AxelPolleres> axel: Option 1 : no variables, Option 2 is any variables,� Option 3 bound only variables

14:41:54 <SteveH_> what does "bound only" mean?

14:41:55 <AndyS> +1 to option 1

14:41:56 <dcharbon2> Option 1 - could relax later if needed/desired

14:41:58 <MattPerry> +1 for no variables

14:41:59 <AndyS> opps

14:42:01 <SteveH_> leaning to no variables though

14:42:02 <AndyS> +1 to option 2

14:42:04 <pgearon> +1 no variables

14:42:12 <chimezie> +0

14:42:19 <bglimm> 0 (no clear understanding of the implications)

14:42:23 <kasei> +1 to option 1 (leave variables as an extentions people can implement)

14:42:25 <OlivierCorby> 2 or 3

14:42:31 <AxelPolleres> +1 to Option 1 (with Option 3 sounding interesting, but not sure about doable in time)

14:43:06 <AndyS> opt 3 is meaningless in the current doc BTW join(A,B) == join(B,A)

14:45:21 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: ericP to put in an editor's note discussing bound only variables

14:45:21 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ericP

14:45:42 <AxelPolleres> ACTION:  eric to put in an editor's note discussing bound only variables

14:45:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-228 - Put in an editor's note discussing bound only variables [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2010-05-04].

14:46:47 <AxelPolleres> summary: in principle we want to publish fed queries as separate doc in the next round.

14:46:57 <AxelPolleres> q?

14:47:07 <ericP> caio all!

14:47:17 <OlivierCorby> topic : Publication

14:47:18 <Zakim> -EricP

14:47:28 <AxelPolleres> topic: next publications

14:48:25 <AxelPolleres> query?

14:48:33 <AxelPolleres> q?

14:49:03 <AxelPolleres> ack aacc

14:49:05 <SteveH_> q=

14:49:10 <SteveH_> queue=

14:49:19 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aacc is me

14:49:19 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it

14:49:27 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

14:49:27 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

14:50:58 <AxelPolleres> andy to resenc summary to the list.

14:51:02 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0085.html

14:51:44 <AxelPolleres> query seems to progress well enough to warrant another publication

14:51:53 <AxelPolleres> update?

14:52:35 <AndyS> syntax?

14:52:56 <AxelPolleres> paul: changes can be in the doc by the end of the week.

14:53:33 <AxelPolleres> ... which would include all the F2F discussed changes.

14:54:15 <AxelPolleres> andy: update syntax needs to be pinned down.

14:55:32 <AxelPolleres> paul please reply to the list with a summary

14:55:48 <AxelPolleres> entailment?

14:57:10 <AxelPolleres> changes in the conditions and for LC we'd need to fix whether we want Datatype only entailment (currently a note), basically ready for review

14:58:49 <AxelPolleres> greg: chasing sandro for fixing final issue before ready to review.

14:58:56 <kasei> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0082.html

14:59:03 <AxelPolleres> that was service description.

14:59:38 <AxelPolleres> http-update

14:59:57 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE-20, ISSUE-49 need to be addressed.

15:00:48 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE-20 is closed by f2f3

15:00:56 <AxelPolleres> so the note can be removed.

15:01:22 <bglimm> Should I remove the closed issues from the related issues section of the document?

15:01:29 <AxelPolleres> propertypaths?

15:02:03 <AxelPolleres> currently a placeholder pointing to the document. will be included time allowed for next publication round.

15:02:43 <Zakim> -SteveH

15:02:46 <MattPerry> bye

15:02:50 <AxelPolleres> adjourned.

15:02:50 <Zakim> -dcharbon2

15:02:53 <Zakim> -AndyS

15:02:55 <Zakim> -bglimm

15:02:57 <Zakim> -chimezie

15:02:58 <Zakim> -kasei

15:02:58 <Zakim> -MattPerry

15:02:59 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby

15:02:59 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres

15:03:04 <Zakim> -pgearon

15:03:06 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

15:03:08 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, OlivierCorby, pgearon, +1.603.897.aaaa, MattPerry, bglimm, +1.310.729.aabb, kasei, dcharbon2, +04312aacc, SteveH, +1.216.636.aadd, chimezie, EricP,

15:03:11 <Zakim> ... AxelPolleres

15:03:32 <AxelPolleres> summary: all editors to resend their status summary to the list, please try to get to reviewable status by next week.

15:03:36 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public