14:50:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/09-sparql-irc ←
14:50:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:50:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
14:50:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes ←
14:50:31 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
14:50:31 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:50:31 <trackbot> Date: 09 March 2010
14:50:32 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes ←
14:50:33 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:50:38 <LeeF> Scribe: Souri
(Scribe set to Souripriya Das)
14:50:44 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-03-09
14:55:36 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
14:55:42 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
14:55:47 <AndyS> zakim, ??P0 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P0 is me ←
14:55:47 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:58:26 <Zakim> +MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry ←
14:59:15 <Zakim> +kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei ←
14:59:23 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me ←
14:59:23 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted ←
15:00:09 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:00:09 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:00:11 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:00:34 <Zakim> +bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm ←
15:00:42 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:00:42 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:01:09 <Zakim> + +035840564aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +035840564aaaa ←
15:01:19 <tommik> zakim, aaaa is me
Tommi Koivula: zakim, aaaa is me ←
15:01:19 <Zakim> +tommik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tommik; got it ←
15:01:26 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
15:01:40 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:01:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, MattPerry, kasei (muted), Ivan, bglimm (muted), tommik, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, MattPerry, kasei (muted), Ivan, bglimm (muted), tommik, LeeF ←
15:01:59 <AndyS> Hi all.
Andy Seaborne: Hi all. ←
15:02:17 <Zakim> +??P19
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19 ←
15:02:21 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P19 is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??P19 is me ←
15:02:21 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
15:02:38 <LeeF> Scribe: MattPerry
(Scribe set to Matthew Perry)
15:02:41 <LeeF> Scribenick: MattPerry
15:02:46 <LeeF> Regrets+ Souri
Lee Feigenbaum: Regrets+ Souri ←
15:03:01 <Zakim> +dcharbon2
Zakim IRC Bot: +dcharbon2 ←
15:03:18 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-02
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-02 ←
15:03:59 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-02
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-03-02 ←
15:04:32 <SteveH> hi all
Steve Harris: hi all ←
15:04:34 <LeeF> Next meeting: 2010-03-16 @ 14:00 UK / 10:00 EDT
Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting: 2010-03-16 @ 14:00 UK / 10:00 EDT ←
15:05:04 <ivan> possible regrets for me
Ivan Herman: possible regrets for me ←
15:05:26 <MattPerry> LeeF: 2 weeks of 4 hr difference
Lee Feigenbaum: 2 weeks of 4 hr difference ←
15:05:31 <Zakim> + +0207735aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0207735aabb ←
15:05:43 <SteveH> Zakim, aabb is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, aabb is me ←
15:05:43 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
15:06:49 <MattPerry> LeeF: may be a problem that Paul is not here ... but we will try to make decisions anyway
Lee Feigenbaum: may be a problem that Paul is not here ... but we will try to make decisions anyway ←
15:07:13 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0428.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0428.html ←
15:07:27 <MattPerry> Topic: Blank Nodes in Delete
15:08:01 <MattPerry> Option 1: no blank nodes in delete template
Option 1: no blank nodes in delete template ←
15:08:16 <MattPerry> Option 2: blank nodes as wildcard in delete template
Option 2: blank nodes as wildcard in delete template ←
15:09:56 <MattPerry> LeeF: if prohibit blank nodes now can we change it later
Lee Feigenbaum: if prohibit blank nodes now can we change it later ←
15:10:16 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres ←
15:10:47 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:10:47 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
15:11:09 <AndyS> I don't understand why if we exclude bnode syntax now we are effectively deciding for the future.
Andy Seaborne: I don't understand why if we exclude bnode syntax now we are effectively deciding for the future. ←
15:11:22 <LeeF> AndyS, yes, that's what I was trying to say
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, yes, that's what I was trying to say ←
15:11:28 <MattPerry> bglimm: can live with no blank nodes but would be better with them
Birte Glimm: can live with no blank nodes but would be better with them ←
15:11:31 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:11:37 <LeeF> ack ivan
Lee Feigenbaum: ack ivan ←
15:12:26 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:12:31 <bglimm> q+ to ask about deleting lists without allowing bnodes
Birte Glimm: q+ to ask about deleting lists without allowing bnodes ←
15:12:33 <LeeF> ack SteveH
Lee Feigenbaum: ack SteveH ←
15:12:34 <MattPerry> ivan: there are non-entailment related use cases that need blank nodes
Ivan Herman: there are non-entailment related use cases that need blank nodes ←
15:13:30 <LeeF> DELETE { ?x :hasList (1 2 3) } WHERE { ... ?x }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE { ?x :hasList (1 2 3) } WHERE { ... ?x } ←
15:13:35 <AxelPolleres> (just to be able to follow... what is discussed - said by ivan - is that not allowing to "delete bnodes" would not allow to delete lists?
Axel Polleres: (just to be able to follow... what is discussed - said by ivan - is that not allowing to "delete bnodes" would not allow to delete lists? ←
15:14:24 <LeeF> ack bglimm
Lee Feigenbaum: ack bglimm ←
15:14:24 <Zakim> bglimm, you wanted to ask about deleting lists without allowing bnodes
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm, you wanted to ask about deleting lists without allowing bnodes ←
15:14:45 <MattPerry> SteveH: rdf list blank node shortcut doesn't add new functionality just makes it easier
Steve Harris: rdf list blank node shortcut doesn't add new functionality just makes it easier ←
15:14:48 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:14:50 <bglimm> ack bglimm
Birte Glimm: ack bglimm ←
15:14:58 <AxelPolleres> what does this mean if the data graph has two lists (1 2 3) as value of :hasList ? (with different bnode ids?)
Axel Polleres: what does this mean if the data graph has two lists (1 2 3) as value of :hasList ? (with different bnode ids?) ←
15:15:41 <AxelPolleres> q+
Axel Polleres: q+ ←
15:16:08 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
15:16:15 <AxelPolleres> q+ to ask whether the vars in the DELETE template don't need to be bou�nd in the WHERE
Axel Polleres: q+ to ask whether the vars in the DELETE template don't need to be bou�nd in the WHERE ←
15:16:36 <LeeF> ack ivan
Lee Feigenbaum: ack ivan ←
15:16:41 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:17:16 <AxelPolleres> ack axel
Axel Polleres: ack axel ←
15:17:16 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask whether the vars in the DELETE template don't need to be bou�nd in the WHERE
Zakim IRC Bot: AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask whether the vars in the DELETE template don't need to be bou�nd in the WHERE ←
15:17:17 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres ←
15:17:50 <LeeF> ack SteveH
Lee Feigenbaum: ack SteveH ←
15:17:59 <MattPerry> LeeF: long var-based list expression must be repeated in both Delete and Where
Lee Feigenbaum: long var-based list expression must be repeated in both Delete and Where ←
15:18:40 <MattPerry> SteveH: can you use property paths to get list variables?
Steve Harris: can you use property paths to get list variables? ←
15:18:48 <AxelPolleres> so, just to note, such a delete would indeed all the matching lists (answering my own question from further above)
Axel Polleres: so, just to note, such a delete would indeed all the matching lists (answering my own question from further above) ←
15:19:37 <LeeF> straw poll: preference between (1) prohibiting blank nodes in DELETE templates and (2) blank nodes in DELETE templates act as wild cards
Lee Feigenbaum: straw poll: preference between (1) prohibiting blank nodes in DELETE templates and (2) blank nodes in DELETE templates act as wild cards ←
15:19:44 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:19:54 <AndyS> Wheer are we on need "all triples must match" rule -- else chaos may result (half a list goes if wrong length)
Andy Seaborne: Wheer are we on need "all triples must match" rule -- else chaos may result (half a list goes if wrong length) ←
15:19:55 <LeeF> ack ivan
Lee Feigenbaum: ack ivan ←
15:20:12 <MattPerry> ivan: also same blank node cannot be in both delete and where
Ivan Herman: also same blank node cannot be in both delete and where ←
15:20:15 <kasei> q+
Gregory Williams: q+ ←
15:20:18 <AndyS> Pref: 2
Andy Seaborne: Pref: 2 ←
15:20:20 <bglimm> 2
Birte Glimm: 2 ←
15:20:23 <kasei> Zakim, unmute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:20:23 <Zakim> kasei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should no longer be muted ←
15:20:23 <ivan> Pref: 2
Ivan Herman: Pref: 2 ←
15:20:25 <LeeF> ack kasei
Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei ←
15:20:32 <SteveH> pref: 1, but 2 probably ok
Steve Harris: pref: 1, but 2 probably ok ←
15:20:37 <MattPerry> Pref: 2
Pref: 2 ←
15:21:13 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:21:17 <MattPerry> kasei: can rdf list be a special case?
Gregory Williams: can rdf list be a special case? ←
15:21:23 <AxelPolleres> slight pref 2, still don't feel sure about implications
Axel Polleres: slight pref 2, still don't feel sure about implications ←
15:21:55 <MattPerry> kasei: grammar can enforce this
Gregory Williams: grammar can enforce this ←
15:22:11 <LeeF> ack ivan
Lee Feigenbaum: ack ivan ←
15:22:13 <MattPerry> LeeF: specification still needs to give semantics for blank nodes
Lee Feigenbaum: specification still needs to give semantics for blank nodes ←
15:22:25 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, mute me ←
15:22:25 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted ←
15:22:38 <LeeF> My preference is for #1
Lee Feigenbaum: My preference is for #1 ←
15:22:50 <MattPerry> ivan: many cases for blank nodes beyond rdf lists
Ivan Herman: many cases for blank nodes beyond rdf lists ←
15:23:00 <AxelPolleres> q+ to note that conceptually, it seems strange, since it would be the only place where bnodes have a "universal variables" meaning, whereas anywhere alse they rather indicate "existential variables"
Axel Polleres: q+ to note that conceptually, it seems strange, since it would be the only place where bnodes have a "universal variables" meaning, whereas anywhere alse they rather indicate "existential variables" ←
15:23:19 <AxelPolleres> ... but I have no better proposal
Axel Polleres: ... but I have no better proposal ←
15:23:27 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres ←
15:23:27 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to note that conceptually, it seems strange, since it would be the only place where bnodes have a "universal variables" meaning, whereas anywhere alse they
Zakim IRC Bot: AxelPolleres, you wanted to note that conceptually, it seems strange, since it would be the only place where bnodes have a "universal variables" meaning, whereas anywhere alse they ←
15:23:27 <AndyS> but they are bnodes in the data. a ?var can be bound to a data bnode
Andy Seaborne: but they are bnodes in the data. a ?var can be bound to a data bnode ←
15:23:31 <Zakim> ... rather indicate "existential variables"
Zakim IRC Bot: ... rather indicate "existential variables" ←
15:24:00 <bglimm> I think in my examples you could always use the [] notation and as I understand it, that would be allowd even under 1
Birte Glimm: I think in my examples you could always use the [] notation and as I understand it, that would be allowd even under 1 ←
15:24:42 <bglimm> and Steve
Birte Glimm: and Steve ←
15:25:06 <AndyS> opt 1 bans [] in delete template AIUI
Andy Seaborne: opt 1 bans [] in delete template AIUI ←
15:25:07 <SteveH> I'm about -0.5
Steve Harris: I'm about -0.5 ←
15:25:30 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Blank nodes in DELETE templates act as "wild cards", effectively as variables bound to all RDF terms; the same blank node cannot be used in the WHERE clause and the template, or in multiple BGPs
PROPOSED: Blank nodes in DELETE templates act as "wild cards", effectively as variables bound to all RDF terms; the same blank node cannot be used in the WHERE clause and the template, or in multiple BGPs ←
15:26:03 <kasei> +1
Gregory Williams: +1 ←
15:26:05 <ivan> second it
Ivan Herman: second it ←
15:26:06 <bglimm> +1
Birte Glimm: +1 ←
15:26:07 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:26:16 <SteveH> abstain
Steve Harris: abstain ←
15:26:20 <dcharbon2> abstain
David Charboneau: abstain ←
15:26:42 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Blank nodes in DELETE templates act as "wild cards", effectively as variables bound to all RDF terms; the same blank node cannot be used in the WHERE clause and the template, or in multiple BGPs, SteveH, dcharbon2, LeeF abstaining
RESOLVED: Blank nodes in DELETE templates act as "wild cards", effectively as variables bound to all RDF terms; the same blank node cannot be used in the WHERE clause and the template, or in multiple BGPs, SteveH, dcharbon2, LeeF abstaining ←
15:26:50 <AxelPolleres> +1 (lacking better solutions)
Axel Polleres: +1 (lacking better solutions) ←
15:27:28 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/51
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/51 ←
15:27:28 <MattPerry> Topic: Data Sets in SPARQL Update
15:27:40 <SteveH> [[[
Steve Harris: [[[ ←
15:27:41 <SteveH> something like:
Steve Harris: something like: ←
15:27:43 <SteveH> DELETE { ?n rdf:first ?f ; rdf:rest ?n }
Steve Harris: DELETE { ?n rdf:first ?f ; rdf:rest ?n } ←
15:27:43 <SteveH> WHERE { <list> rdf:first*/rdf:rest* ?n . ?n rdf:first ?f ; rdf:next ?n }
Steve Harris: WHERE { <list> rdf:first*/rdf:rest* ?n . ?n rdf:first ?f ; rdf:next ?n } ←
15:27:44 <SteveH> ]]]
Steve Harris: ]]] ←
15:30:07 <MattPerry> LeeF: SPARQL query allows specification of an RDF Dataset, but SPARQL update does not allow query to select specific RDF Dataset
Lee Feigenbaum: SPARQL query allows specification of an RDF Dataset, but SPARQL update does not allow query to select specific RDF Dataset ←
15:30:33 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:30:49 <AndyS> Is this different from using GRAPH in the pattern?
Andy Seaborne: Is this different from using GRAPH in the pattern? ←
15:31:00 <SteveH> GRAPH ?g ... FILTER(?g = <a> || ...)
Steve Harris: GRAPH ?g ... FILTER(?g = <a> || ...) ←
15:31:24 <MattPerry> LeeF: what is the scope of graphs that the WHERE is matched against?
Lee Feigenbaum: what is the scope of graphs that the WHERE is matched against? ←
15:31:35 <AndyS> If the default dataset is changed (to some union using FROM...), it goes make a difference.
Andy Seaborne: If the default dataset is changed (to some union using FROM...), it goes make a difference. ←
15:32:19 <MattPerry> LeeF: No way to give default graph for update
Lee Feigenbaum: No way to give default graph for update ←
15:32:28 <AndyS> q+ to ask how does this interact with WITH?
Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask how does this interact with WITH? ←
15:32:30 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
15:32:33 <LeeF> ack SteveH
Lee Feigenbaum: ack SteveH ←
15:33:02 <ivan> Lees' syntax example: INSERT INTO <g1> { template } FROM g2 FROM g3 FROM NAMED g4 FROM NAMED
Ivan Herman: Lees' syntax example: INSERT INTO <g1> { template } FROM g2 FROM g3 FROM NAMED g4 FROM NAMED ←
15:33:02 <ivan> g5 WHERE { GRAPH ?g { ?s ?p ?o } }
Ivan Herman: g5 WHERE { GRAPH ?g { ?s ?p ?o } } ←
15:33:10 <LeeF> SELECT ... FROM <g1> FROM <g2> { tp1 . tp2 }
Lee Feigenbaum: SELECT ... FROM <g1> FROM <g2> { tp1 . tp2 } ←
15:33:51 <LeeF> SELECT ... { GRAPH ?g1 { tp1 } . GRAPH ?g2 { tp2 } }
Lee Feigenbaum: SELECT ... { GRAPH ?g1 { tp1 } . GRAPH ?g2 { tp2 } } ←
15:34:16 <MattPerry> LeeF: can do this with GRAPH but WHERE gets very complicated
Lee Feigenbaum: can do this with GRAPH but WHERE gets very complicated ←
15:34:17 <AndyS> not quite - tp may span g1 and g2.
Andy Seaborne: not quite - tp may span g1 and g2. ←
15:34:34 <LeeF> AndyS, one tp can span two graphs?
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, one tp can span two graphs? ←
15:34:37 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
15:34:39 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
15:34:39 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask how does this interact with WITH?
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask how does this interact with WITH? ←
15:34:57 <AxelPolleres> SELECT ... { GRAPH ?g1 { tp1 } . GRAPH ?g2 { tp2 } } FILTER (?g1 = <g1> or ?g1= <g2> and ?g2 = <g1> or ?g2= <g2> )
Axel Polleres: SELECT ... { GRAPH ?g1 { tp1 } . GRAPH ?g2 { tp2 } } FILTER (?g1 = <g1> or ?g1= <g2> and ?g2 = <g1> or ?g2= <g2> ) ←
15:34:59 <AxelPolleres> ?
Axel Polleres: ? ←
15:35:36 <LeeF> AxelPolleres, right
Lee Feigenbaum: AxelPolleres, right ←
15:35:37 <AndyS> tp1 can match g1 or g2, tp2 can match g1 or g2 => 4 cases
Andy Seaborne: tp1 can match g1 or g2, tp2 can match g1 or g2 => 4 cases ←
15:35:37 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
15:35:50 <AndyS> (bnodes ... :-))
Andy Seaborne: (bnodes ... :-)) ←
15:36:12 <AxelPolleres> q+
Axel Polleres: q+ ←
15:36:22 <AndyS> I'm happy to consider the design. Seems harmless (so far).
Andy Seaborne: I'm happy to consider the design. Seems harmless (so far). ←
15:36:54 <AndyS> I can see that WITH != FROM (WITH is the updated graph, FROM is the queried graph)
Andy Seaborne: I can see that WITH != FROM (WITH is the updated graph, FROM is the queried graph) ←
15:37:08 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres ←
15:38:12 <AndyS> Can't update a synthetic graph (e.g. merge of 2 graphs)
Andy Seaborne: Can't update a synthetic graph (e.g. merge of 2 graphs) ←
15:38:27 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
15:38:39 <AndyS> LeeF, your suggestion is good.
Andy Seaborne: LeeF, your suggestion is good. ←
15:39:01 <MattPerry> LeeF: interaction of WITH and FROM needs more investigation
Lee Feigenbaum: interaction of WITH and FROM needs more investigation ←
15:39:16 <AxelPolleres> I see a problem with e.g. INSERT { ?X p ?Y } FROM <g1> FROM <g2> WHERE { ?X p1 o1 . ?Y p2 o2. }
Axel Polleres: I see a problem with e.g. INSERT { ?X p ?Y } FROM <g1> FROM <g2> WHERE { ?X p1 o1 . ?Y p2 o2. } ←
15:40:31 <AxelPolleres> ... don't know what it means. A proposal should make this corner cases clear, before we can really figure out whether/where it is useful.
Axel Polleres: ... don't know what it means. A proposal should make this corner cases clear, before we can really figure out whether/where it is useful. ←
15:41:09 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to work with Paul to flesh out design proposal for FROM/FROM NAMED (datasets) in SPARQL Update
ACTION: Lee to work with Paul to flesh out design proposal for FROM/FROM NAMED (datasets) in SPARQL Update ←
15:41:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-202 - Work with Paul to flesh out design proposal for FROM/FROM NAMED (datasets) in SPARQL Update [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-03-16].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-202 - Work with Paul to flesh out design proposal for FROM/FROM NAMED (datasets) in SPARQL Update [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-03-16]. ←
15:41:45 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0432.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0432.html ←
15:42:00 <MattPerry> Topic: Update Fault Types
15:42:55 <MattPerry> AndyS: with HTTP there are few error codes
Andy Seaborne: with HTTP there are few error codes ←
15:44:03 <MattPerry> dcharbon2: WSDL 2.0 has no limit on error codes
David Charboneau: WSDL 2.0 has no limit on error codes ←
15:44:06 <dcharbon2> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/CR-wsdl20-adjuncts-20060327/#http-fault-decl
David Charboneau: http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/CR-wsdl20-adjuncts-20060327/#http-fault-decl ←
15:45:41 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:45:43 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:46:09 <LeeF> ACK SteveH
Lee Feigenbaum: ACK SteveH ←
15:49:07 <Zakim> +??P2
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2 ←
15:49:08 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P2 is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??P2 is me ←
15:49:08 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
15:49:22 <MattPerry> LeeF: does it make sense to have a lot of faults if there are only a couple of error codes?
Lee Feigenbaum: does it make sense to have a lot of faults if there are only a couple of error codes? ←
15:50:29 <MattPerry> dcharbon2: could start with 2 basic error codes and see what users think
David Charboneau: could start with 2 basic error codes and see what users think ←
15:50:30 <kasei> i'd be interested in seeing the use of many of the 2xx http codes be conformant (going beyond the idea of just faults). 202 in particular.
Gregory Williams: i'd be interested in seeing the use of many of the 2xx http codes be conformant (going beyond the idea of just faults). 202 in particular. ←
15:51:23 <MattPerry> LeeF: what code does drop non-existent graph map to?
Lee Feigenbaum: what code does drop non-existent graph map to? ←
15:51:26 <kasei> 400 bad request seems like a potential status code...
Gregory Williams: 400 bad request seems like a potential status code... ←
15:51:56 <AndyS> "202 Accepted" is not an error? 2xx are all positives? Text is "Successful 2xx"
Andy Seaborne: "202 Accepted" is not an error? 2xx are all positives? Text is "Successful 2xx" ←
15:52:06 <AndyS> ?? "304 Not Modified"
Andy Seaborne: ?? "304 Not Modified" ←
15:52:13 <SteveH> could be
Steve Harris: could be ←
15:52:20 <MattPerry> SteveH: there are many more-specific HTTP codes to use
Steve Harris: there are many more-specific HTTP codes to use ←
15:53:10 <MattPerry> LeeF: lets hold off on error codes until update language is set
Lee Feigenbaum: lets hold off on error codes until update language is set ←
15:54:02 <MattPerry> AndyS: it is still useful to identify what the possible errors are even though they are not exposed in the SPARQL protocol
Andy Seaborne: it is still useful to identify what the possible errors are even though they are not exposed in the SPARQL protocol ←
15:54:14 <SteveH> +1 to AndyS
Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS ←
15:54:21 <MattPerry> AndyS: informative text can do this
Andy Seaborne: informative text can do this ←
15:55:35 <MattPerry> LeeF: Next week HTTP protocol, Property Paths, what is and is not in update language, and F2F
Lee Feigenbaum: Next week HTTP protocol, Property Paths, what is and is not in update language, and F2F ←
15:55:49 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
15:55:50 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
15:55:50 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
15:55:50 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres ←
15:55:53 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:55:54 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
15:55:56 <Zakim> -dcharbon2
Zakim IRC Bot: -dcharbon2 ←
15:55:56 <ivan> zakim, drop me
Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me ←
15:55:56 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected ←
15:55:58 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:55:58 <Zakim> -tommik
Zakim IRC Bot: -tommik ←
15:56:12 <SteveH> it's spooky that zakim knows more of my phone umber than I do :)
Steve Harris: it's spooky that zakim knows more of my phone umber than I do :) ←
15:56:20 <AndyS> zakim, drop me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, drop me ←
15:56:20 <Zakim> AndyS is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS is being disconnected ←
15:56:22 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:58:52 <kasei> can anyone help me parse a sentence from the RDF/XML spec?
Gregory Williams: can anyone help me parse a sentence from the RDF/XML spec? ←
15:59:13 <LeeF> kasei, can try :D
Lee Feigenbaum: kasei, can try :D ←
15:59:25 <kasei> i'm looking for a URI that identifies RDF/XML, the serialization format.
Gregory Williams: i'm looking for a URI that identifies RDF/XML, the serialization format. ←
15:59:33 <kasei> section 5.1 says, "The RDF Vocabulary is identified by this namespace name"
Gregory Williams: section 5.1 says, "The RDF Vocabulary is identified by this namespace name" ←
15:59:42 <kasei> I'm trying to sort out if "RDF Vocabulary" is what I'm after.
Gregory Williams: I'm trying to sort out if "RDF Vocabulary" is what I'm after. ←
15:59:51 <kasei> I suspect not, but not totally sure.
Gregory Williams: I suspect not, but not totally sure. ←
15:59:56 <AndyS> no, it's not.
Andy Seaborne: no, it's not. ←
16:00:10 <AndyS> RDF vocab is "rdf:type" etc.
Andy Seaborne: RDF vocab is "rdf:type" etc. ←
16:00:23 <kasei> bah. annoyed that we've been able to get this far without URIs for some very basic stuff!
Gregory Williams: bah. annoyed that we've been able to get this far without URIs for some very basic stuff! ←
16:00:32 <AndyS> Not sure there is a URI for the synatx - is there a URI for every MIME type?
Andy Seaborne: Not sure there is a URI for the synatx - is there a URI for every MIME type? ←
16:01:09 <AndyS> There is naming competition between MIME types and formats ... so not sure if anyone has been bold enough to go there.
Andy Seaborne: There is naming competition between MIME types and formats ... so not sure if anyone has been bold enough to go there. ←
16:01:10 <kasei> well, much like the rdf/xml spec, there's probably an offical information resource for mime types, but that's different.
Gregory Williams: well, much like the rdf/xml spec, there's probably an offical information resource for mime types, but that's different. ←
16:01:27 <AndyS> Fairly certain W3C hasn't - would be a nice suprise if they had.
Andy Seaborne: Fairly certain W3C hasn't - would be a nice suprise if they had. ←
16:01:30 <AndyS> ivan?
Andy Seaborne: ivan? ←
16:02:13 <kasei> wonder if this is the sort of thing that might be added to rdf/xml based on the upcoming workshop...
Gregory Williams: wonder if this is the sort of thing that might be added to rdf/xml based on the upcoming workshop... ←
16:02:43 <AndyS> kasei, Graham Klyne would be a good person to ask - he tracks IETF and W3C.
Andy Seaborne: kasei, Graham Klyne would be a good person to ask - he tracks IETF and W3C. ←
16:02:50 <kasei> if we go ahead with this saddle:resultFormat stuff in the SDs, I'd like to be able to point to URIs for the standard formats.
Gregory Williams: if we go ahead with this saddle:resultFormat stuff in the SDs, I'd like to be able to point to URIs for the standard formats. ←
16:03:06 <SteveH> kasei, didn't saddle: use mime types?
Steve Harris: kasei, didn't saddle: use mime types? ←
16:03:31 <kasei> it used both mime types and a link to the spec's webpage.
Gregory Williams: it used both mime types and a link to the spec's webpage. ←
16:03:37 <SteveH> right
Steve Harris: right ←
16:03:47 <SteveH> given that conneg works on mime types, that's not a bad idea
Steve Harris: given that conneg works on mime types, that's not a bad idea ←
16:03:53 <kasei> which is fine if you don't have a proper URI, I suppose, but I think we can/should do better.
Gregory Williams: which is fine if you don't have a proper URI, I suppose, but I think we can/should do better. ←
16:05:19 <kasei> also, with the confusion around some mime types for rdf, I'd rather not lean too heavily on them as identifiers.
Gregory Williams: also, with the confusion around some mime types for rdf, I'd rather not lean too heavily on them as identifiers. ←
16:05:47 <SteveH> true
Steve Harris: true ←
16:06:23 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
16:06:23 <kasei> especially n-triples. text/plain isn't exactly the most useful thing for conneg.
Gregory Williams: especially n-triples. text/plain isn't exactly the most useful thing for conneg. ←
16:06:24 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended ←
16:06:25 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, MattPerry, kasei, Ivan, bglimm, +035840564aaaa, tommik, LeeF, AlexPassant, dcharbon2, +0207735aabb, SteveH, AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were AndyS, MattPerry, kasei, Ivan, bglimm, +035840564aaaa, tommik, LeeF, AlexPassant, dcharbon2, +0207735aabb, SteveH, AxelPolleres ←
16:09:21 <AndyS> agree re text/plain. They didn't plan to let it out of the WG as a format - but it escaped. Feral format.
Andy Seaborne: agree re text/plain. They didn't plan to let it out of the WG as a format - but it escaped. Feral format. ←
16:09:40 <kasei> heh
Gregory Williams: heh ←
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This revision (#1) generated 2010-03-15 13:50:09 UTC by 'unknown', comments: None