SPARQL Working Group

Minutes of 20 October 2009

Seen
Alex Passant, Andy Seaborne, Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm, Chime Ogbuji, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Greg Williams, Ivan Mikhailov, Ivan Herman, Kjetil Kjernsmo, Lee Feigenbaum, Luke Wilson-Mawer, Olivier Corby, Orri Erling, Paul Gearon, Sandro Hawke, Simon Schenk, Steve Harris
Regrets
Ivan Herman, Orri Erling
Scribe
Axel Polleres, Birte Glimm
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. approved http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-10-13 link
  2. To include aggregates for COUNT, MIN, MAX, SUM, AVG and discuss others down the road, no abstentions or objections link
Topics
13:57:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/20-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/20-sparql-irc

13:58:11 <AxelPolleres> zakim, this will be sparql

Axel Polleres: zakim, this will be sparql

13:58:11 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes

13:58:32 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

13:58:37 <Zakim> + +1.312.863.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.312.863.aaaa

13:58:40 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aabb

13:58:44 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Axel Polleres

(Scribe set to Axel Polleres)

13:59:08 <Zakim> + +3539149aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +3539149aacc

13:59:13 <pgearon> Zakim, +1.312.863.aaaa is me

Paul Gearon: Zakim, +1.312.863.aaaa is me

13:59:13 <Zakim> +pgearon; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon; got it

13:59:20 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aacc is me

Zakim, aacc is me

13:59:20 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres; got it

13:59:24 <Zakim> + +0186528aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186528aadd

13:59:27 <kasei> Zakim, aabb is me

Greg Williams: Zakim, aabb is me

13:59:27 <Zakim> +kasei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it

13:59:31 <kasei> Zakim, mute me

Greg Williams: Zakim, mute me

13:59:31 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted

13:59:34 <bglimm> Zakim, who am I

Birte Glimm: Zakim, who am I

13:59:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who am I', bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who am I', bglimm

13:59:51 <bglimm> Zakim, who am I?

Birte Glimm: Zakim, who am I?

13:59:51 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bglimm.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, bglimm.

14:00:18 <Zakim> - +0186528aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: - +0186528aadd

14:00:33 <Zakim> + +7.950.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +7.950.aaee

14:00:35 <kasei> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Greg Williams: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:00:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei (muted), pgearon, AxelPolleres, +7.950.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei (muted), pgearon, AxelPolleres, +7.950.aaee

14:00:41 <AxelPolleres> Agenda is at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-10-20

Agenda is at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-10-20

14:00:47 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-10-20

AxelPolleres has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-10-20

14:00:58 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

14:01:06 <AndyS> zakim, ??P13 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P13 is me

14:01:06 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:01:15 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

14:01:19 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??p14 is me

Alex Passant: Zakim, ??p14 is me

14:01:19 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it

14:01:25 <AndyS> (probably - zakim is slow)

Andy Seaborne: (probably - zakim is slow)

14:01:35 <SteveH_> I dialed in about 1 min ago, anyone see my ID?

Steve Harris: I dialed in about 1 min ago, anyone see my ID?

14:01:37 <Zakim> + +0186528aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186528aaff

14:01:47 <bglimm> Zakim, +0186528aaff is me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, +0186528aaff is me

14:01:47 <AndyS> zakim, please mute me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, please mute me

14:01:52 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it

14:01:55 <Zakim> AndyS should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS should now be muted

14:01:56 <Zakim> + +049261287aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +049261287aagg

14:01:59 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:02:00 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

14:02:08 <SimonS> Zakim, aagg is me

Simon Schenk: Zakim, aagg is me

14:02:11 <Zakim> +SimonS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SimonS; got it

14:02:21 <AndyS> zakim, please unmute me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, please unmute me

14:02:21 <Zakim> AndyS should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS should no longer be muted

14:02:35 <AxelPolleres> still waiting for lee for a minute or two, otherwise we might just start.

still waiting for lee for a minute or two, otherwise we might just start.

14:03:21 <Zakim> + +49.238.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.238.aahh

14:03:34 <LukeWM> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Luke Wilson-Mawer: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:03:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei (muted), pgearon, AxelPolleres, +7.950.aaee, AndyS, AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), SimonS, +49.238.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei (muted), pgearon, AxelPolleres, +7.950.aaee, AndyS, AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), SimonS, +49.238.aahh

14:04:18 <SteveH> Zakim, aaee is [Garlik]

Steve Harris: Zakim, aaee is [Garlik]

14:04:18 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +[Garlik]; got it

14:04:27 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH and LukeWM

Steve Harris: Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH and LukeWM

14:04:27 <Zakim> +SteveH, LukeWM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH, LukeWM; got it

14:04:39 <bglimm> I can scribe

Birte Glimm: I can scribe

14:04:43 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me

14:04:43 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted

14:04:48 <OlivierCorby> Zakim, +49.238.aahh is me

Olivier Corby: Zakim, +49.238.aahh is me

14:04:48 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby; got it

14:04:56 <OlivierCorby> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Olivier Corby: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:04:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei (muted), pgearon, AxelPolleres, [Garlik], AndyS, AlexPassant, bglimm, SimonS, OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei (muted), pgearon, AxelPolleres, [Garlik], AndyS, AlexPassant, bglimm, SimonS, OlivierCorby

14:04:58 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM

Zakim IRC Bot: [Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM

14:04:59 <bglimm> Scribe: bglimm

(Scribe set to Birte Glimm)

14:05:00 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

14:05:10 <bglimm> Topic: Adiministrative

1. Adiministrative

14:05:27 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-10-13

PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-10-13

14:05:28 <bglimm> s/Adiministrative/Administrative/

s/Adiministrative/Administrative/

14:05:42 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approved http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-10-13

RESOLVED: approved http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-10-13

14:05:42 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Suggest to approve last week's minutes

Axel Polleres: Suggest to approve last week's minutes

14:05:59 <Zakim> +??P34

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34

14:06:01 <Zakim> -??P34

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P34

14:06:05 <bglimm> ... next week might be difficult for a meeting because of ISWC

... next week might be difficult for a meeting because of ISWC

14:06:15 <AndyS> Regrets for next week.

Andy Seaborne: Regrets for next week.

14:06:20 <bglimm> ... people will try to participate from there

... people will try to participate from there

14:06:36 <Zakim> +??P34

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34

14:06:43 <KjetilK> Zakim, ??P34 is me

Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, ??P34 is me

14:06:43 <Zakim> +KjetilK; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +KjetilK; got it

14:06:48 <KjetilK> Zakim, mute me

Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, mute me

14:06:48 <Zakim> KjetilK should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK should now be muted

14:06:52 <bglimm> LeeF: We should still have a call. It is the lastbefore F2F.

Lee Feigenbaum: We should still have a call. It is the lastbefore F2F.

14:07:05 <bglimm> Topic: F2F

2. F2F

14:07:06 <Zakim> + +1.216.636.aaii

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.636.aaii

14:07:16 <Zakim> +SteveB

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveB

14:07:17 <chimezie> Zakim 636.aaii is me

Chime Ogbuji: Zakim 636.aaii is me

14:07:28 <LukeWM> q+

Luke Wilson-Mawer: q+

14:07:30 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: seems we are a small group, but some people wish to participate remotely

Axel Polleres: seems we are a small group, but some people wish to participate remotely

14:07:34 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.636.aaii is me

Chime Ogbuji: Zakim, +1.216.636.aaii is me

14:07:34 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +chimezie; got it

14:07:57 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chime Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me

14:07:57 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should now be muted

14:07:59 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

14:08:00 <bglimm> LeeF: we will only have normal telecon facilities

Lee Feigenbaum: we will only have normal telecon facilities

14:08:11 <bglimm> s/LeeF/EricP/

s/LeeF/EricP/

14:08:41 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's here?

14:08:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei (muted), pgearon, AxelPolleres, [Garlik], AndyS, AlexPassant, bglimm, SimonS, OlivierCorby, KjetilK (muted), chimezie (muted), SteveB

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei (muted), pgearon, AxelPolleres, [Garlik], AndyS, AlexPassant, bglimm, SimonS, OlivierCorby, KjetilK (muted), chimezie (muted), SteveB

14:08:44 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM

Zakim IRC Bot: [Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM

14:08:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see chimezie, LeeF, SteveH, SimonS, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgearon, AxelPolleres, OlivierCorby, ivan, LukeWM, bglimm, KjetilK, kjetil, AlexPassant, kasei, karl, iv_an_ru,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see chimezie, LeeF, SteveH, SimonS, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, pgearon, AxelPolleres, OlivierCorby, ivan, LukeWM, bglimm, KjetilK, kjetil, AlexPassant, kasei, karl, iv_an_ru,

14:08:47 <Zakim> ... ericP, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: ... ericP, trackbot

14:08:50 <LeeF> zakim, SteveB has LeeF, ericP

Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, SteveB has LeeF, ericP

14:08:50 <Zakim> +LeeF, ericP; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF, ericP; got it

14:08:51 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: I hope everybody has rejoined the WG by now.

Axel Polleres: I hope everybody has rejoined the WG by now.

14:09:04 <bglimm> .... if not, please do so.

.... if not, please do so.

14:09:29 <bglimm> ... There is news for the team contacts

... There is news for the team contacts

14:09:32 <AndyS> q?

Andy Seaborne: q?

14:09:46 <bglimm> EricP: Sandro will take over for me. Ivan will be continuing

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Sandro will take over for me. Ivan will be continuing

14:09:53 <SimonS> q+

Simon Schenk: q+

14:10:09 <sandro> zakim, what is the code?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, what is the code?

14:10:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sandro

14:10:12 <LeeF> Regarding F2F agenda - please see and reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009OctDec/0201.html

Lee Feigenbaum: Regarding F2F agenda - please see and reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009OctDec/0201.html

14:10:16 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:10:39 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Thanks from all of us to EricP for the work he has done.

Axel Polleres: Thanks from all of us to EricP for the work he has done.

14:10:42 <AndyS> Thanks to EricP (DAWG and SPARQL)

Andy Seaborne: Thanks to EricP (DAWG and SPARQL)

14:10:51 <bglimm> ... Sandro also joinded the call.

... Sandro also joinded the call.

14:11:27 <bglimm> Sandro: I should be at the second dy of the F2F

Sandro Hawke: I should be at the second dy of the F2F

14:11:46 <LeeF> ack LukeWM

Lee Feigenbaum: ack LukeWM

14:11:51 <AxelPolleres> birte, i can take over scribing

Axel Polleres: birte, i can take over scribing

14:11:57 <bglimm> Luke: I was wondering what remotely means for the F2F

Luke Wilson-Mawer: I was wondering what remotely means for the F2F

14:12:04 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Axel Polleres

(Scribe set to Axel Polleres)

14:12:15 <bglimm> Scribe: AxelPolleres
14:12:24 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me

14:12:24 <Zakim> bglimm was not muted, bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm was not muted, bglimm

14:12:31 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:12:31 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

14:12:43 <AndyS> US is still daylight time?

Andy Seaborne: US is still daylight time?

14:12:46 <AndyS> EU is not.

Andy Seaborne: EU is not.

14:12:49 <AxelPolleres> Lee: dialing into west coast might be challenging. we will see how we can arrange the schedule.

Lee Feigenbaum: dialing into west coast might be challenging. we will see how we can arrange the schedule.

14:13:25 <AxelPolleres> ... we should gather as many issues as possible now, to put the important things in the morning slot, to enable some overlap.

... we should gather as many issues as possible now, to put the important things in the morning slot, to enable some overlap.

14:14:08 <AxelPolleres> discussion about daylght saving time...

discussion about daylght saving time...

14:14:12 <pgearon> November 1

Paul Gearon: November 1

14:14:24 <AxelPolleres> Axel: think next week in Europe, one but next week US

Axel Polleres: think next week in Europe, one but next week US

14:14:28 <pgearon> Daylight time ends on Sunday, November 1 at 2 a.m.

Paul Gearon: Daylight time ends on Sunday, November 1 at 2 a.m.

14:14:40 <LeeF> ack SimonS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack SimonS

14:15:34 <AxelPolleres> SimonS: too many issues lately, axel convinced me to stay until FPWD, but will take a break until spring then.

Simon Schenk: too many issues lately, axel convinced me to stay until FPWD, but will take a break until spring then.

14:15:48 <AxelPolleres> ... hope to rejoin then, will be at ISWC.

... hope to rejoin then, will be at ISWC.

14:16:02 <AxelPolleres> Lee: thanks, paul will continue as update editor.

Lee Feigenbaum: thanks, paul will continue as update editor.

14:16:22 <pgearon> :-)

Paul Gearon: :-)

14:16:27 <AxelPolleres> Paul: have CVS access now, don't see a problem with that.

Paul Gearon: have CVS access now, don't see a problem with that.

14:16:39 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me

Chime Ogbuji: Zakim, unmute me

14:16:39 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should no longer be muted

14:16:56 <AxelPolleres> ericP: 3 more days to register for TPAC, costs 50$ per day.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: 3 more days to register for TPAC, costs 50$ per day.

14:17:13 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/

http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/

14:17:42 <AxelPolleres> eric: if you are late, more expensive and unsure

Eric Prud'hommeaux: if you are late, more expensive and unsure

14:18:22 <AxelPolleres> topic: liaison

3. liaison

14:18:36 <AxelPolleres> Lee: we'll meet hcls at TPAC

Lee Feigenbaum: we'll meet hcls at TPAC

14:19:01 <AxelPolleres> eric: we'll care about federation, path expression

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we'll care about federation, path expression

14:19:30 <AxelPolleres> simons: I had some chat with hcls some time ago, can give a summary

Simon Schenk: I had some chat with hcls some time ago, can give a summary

14:20:08 <AxelPolleres> ... they are split into subgroups. results are 5-6 different knowledge bases, which need to be connected (by federation)

... they are split into subgroups. results are 5-6 different knowledge bases, which need to be connected (by federation)

14:20:09 <pgearon> +q

Paul Gearon: +q

14:20:16 <AndyS> q+ to ask that this be described in email

Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask that this be described in email

14:20:28 <AxelPolleres> ... will probably need more than what we currently have under basic federation.

... will probably need more than what we currently have under basic federation.

14:20:42 <AxelPolleres> paul: where are we going with federation?

Paul Gearon: where are we going with federation?

14:21:06 <AxelPolleres> lee: basic federation is a time-allowed feature, no actual meetings yet.

Lee Feigenbaum: basic federation is a time-allowed feature, no actual meetings yet.

14:21:14 <LeeF> ack pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon

14:21:24 <AxelPolleres> paul: this is something I'd want to get involved with.

Paul Gearon: this is something I'd want to get involved with.

14:21:58 <SimonS> +1 Paul

Simon Schenk: +1 Paul

14:22:02 <LeeF> ack AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS

14:22:02 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask that this be described in email

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask that this be described in email

14:22:08 <AxelPolleres> ... passing bindings between queries (paul pls summarise)

... passing bindings between queries (paul pls summarise)

14:22:25 <pgearon> I'd like to summarize in an email, if that's OK

Paul Gearon: I'd like to summarize in an email, if that's OK

14:22:34 <AxelPolleres> andy: would be good to have the requirements written up.

Andy Seaborne: would be good to have the requirements written up.

14:23:33 <AxelPolleres> action: paul to summarize federated querying in HCLS together with simonS in email thread

ACTION: paul to summarize federated querying in HCLS together with simonS in email thread

14:23:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-124 - Summarize federated querying in HCLS together with simonS in email thread [on Paul Gearon - due 2009-10-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-124 - Summarize federated querying in HCLS together with simonS in email thread [on Paul Gearon - due 2009-10-27].

14:23:49 <ericP> -> http://swobjects.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/swobjects/trunk/tests/7tm_receptors/flat/q.rq example of HCLS federation (using GRAPH instead of SERVICE but that will change soon)

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://swobjects.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/swobjects/trunk/tests/7tm_receptors/flat/q.rq example of HCLS federation (using GRAPH instead of SERVICE but that will change soon)

14:23:54 <AxelPolleres> topic: fpwd

4. fpwd

14:24:02 <AxelPolleres> topic: query

5. query

14:24:08 <AxelPolleres> lee: query all set

Lee Feigenbaum: query all set

14:24:12 <AxelPolleres> q+

q+

14:24:17 <AxelPolleres> q-

q-

14:24:44 <AxelPolleres> lee: all documents need to be consistent with the new naming scheme, we do that in the process of applying pubrules with eric.

Lee Feigenbaum: all documents need to be consistent with the new naming scheme, we do that in the process of applying pubrules with eric.

14:25:10 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/

14:25:11 <AxelPolleres> topic: update

6. update

14:25:26 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/

14:25:41 <SimonS> q+

Simon Schenk: q+

14:25:45 <AxelPolleres> luke: should we also move the urls in CVS?

Luke Wilson-Mawer: should we also move the urls in CVS?

14:26:01 <AxelPolleres> Lee: can we move that?

Lee Feigenbaum: can we move that?

14:26:05 <AxelPolleres> Eric: can be done

Eric Prud'hommeaux: can be done

14:26:27 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee and EricP to move update editor's draft to -1.1 URL

ACTION: Lee and EricP to move update editor's draft to -1.1 URL

14:26:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-125 - And EricP to move update editor's draft to -1.1 URL [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2009-10-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-125 - And EricP to move update editor's draft to -1.1 URL [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2009-10-27].

14:26:28 <AndyS> (Or remove the version completely in case ... :-()

Andy Seaborne: (Or remove the version completely in case ... :-()

14:26:35 <AxelPolleres> Paul: all updated in CVS

Paul Gearon: all updated in CVS

14:26:43 <SimonS> q-

Simon Schenk: q-

14:27:14 <AxelPolleres> Luke: small comments, but nothing critical. section 4.1 has a note which might be changed into an issue.

Luke Wilson-Mawer: small comments, but nothing critical. section 4.1 has a note which might be changed into an issue.

14:27:38 <AxelPolleres> SimonS: think I changed all into issues this morning.

Simon Schenk: think I changed all into issues this morning.

14:27:40 <LukeWM> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/#sec_examples

Luke Wilson-Mawer: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/#sec_examples

14:28:29 <AxelPolleres> SimonS: I changed the note to refer to section 2.1, in section 2.1 you have four related issues...

Simon Schenk: I changed the note to refer to section 2.1, in section 2.1 you have four related issues...

14:28:41 <AxelPolleres> Luke: ok, that's fine for me.

Luke Wilson-Mawer: ok, that's fine for me.

14:29:21 <AxelPolleres> Luke:other thing, mentioned graph graph patterns which weren't there

Luke Wilson-Mawer: other thing, mentioned graph graph patterns which weren't there

14:29:34 <AxelPolleres> SimonS: it is actually there , production 25

Simon Schenk: it is actually there , production 25

14:30:25 <AxelPolleres> Lee: the "red stuff" (stylesheet related) will be fixed today

Lee Feigenbaum: the "red stuff" (stylesheet related) will be fixed today

14:31:02 <AndyS> q+ about XSLT

Andy Seaborne: q+ about XSLT

14:31:18 <AxelPolleres> ... which is a result of XSL not being complete.

... which is a result of XSL not being complete.

14:31:37 <LeeF> I'd also like us to end up with a single XSLT, hoping to do that

Lee Feigenbaum: I'd also like us to end up with a single XSLT, hoping to do that

14:32:03 <LeeF> ack about

Lee Feigenbaum: ack about

14:32:04 <LeeF> ack XSLT

Lee Feigenbaum: ack XSLT

14:32:17 <AxelPolleres> Eric: if you find something wrong in the XSL, let us know, you'll catch us on IRC the next few hours.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: if you find something wrong in the XSL, let us know, you'll catch us on IRC the next few hours.

14:32:20 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me

Chime Ogbuji: Zakim, mute me

14:32:20 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should now be muted

14:33:02 <AxelPolleres> Andy: you change the XSL?

Andy Seaborne: you change the XSL?

14:33:10 <AxelPolleres> Lee: yes.

Lee Feigenbaum: yes.

14:33:20 <AndyS> Query document: XSLT: <b> <cite> and tables / boxes

Andy Seaborne: Query document: XSLT: <b> <cite> and tables / boxes

14:33:29 <AxelPolleres> Andy: i see some things removed, e.g. tables not having borders, etc.

Andy Seaborne: i see some things removed, e.g. tables not having borders, etc.

14:34:03 <bglimm> +1 to Andy

Birte Glimm: +1 to Andy

14:34:47 <AxelPolleres> Andy: we should have one style across all documents.... which is actually a good intent in the new W3C styles.

Andy Seaborne: we should have one style across all documents.... which is actually a good intent in the new W3C styles.

14:35:01 <ericP> those cursed systems folks have raised expectations

Eric Prud'hommeaux: those cursed systems folks have raised expectations

14:35:31 <bglimm> I would like to have elements for query and results in examples

Birte Glimm: I would like to have elements for query and results in examples

14:35:40 <AxelPolleres> Lee: let us know if you need some special items in the XSL

Lee Feigenbaum: let us know if you need some special items in the XSL

14:36:06 <AxelPolleres> topic: protocol

7. protocol

14:36:17 <LukeWM> q+

Luke Wilson-Mawer: q+

14:36:21 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/protocol-1.1/

14:36:39 <AxelPolleres> Lee: alex/andy pointed some minor things...

Lee Feigenbaum: alex/andy pointed some minor things...

14:36:42 <LeeF> ack LukeWM

Lee Feigenbaum: ack LukeWM

14:36:57 <AxelPolleres> ... I did some global search on "SOAP" and tackled that.

... I did some global search on "SOAP" and tackled that.

14:37:08 <AxelPolleres> Luke: some more remark on update.

Luke Wilson-Mawer: some more remark on update.

14:37:16 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/22

Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/22

14:37:40 <AxelPolleres> ... issue-22 doesn't belong to update.

... ISSUE-22 doesn't belong to update.

14:38:05 <LukeWM> pgearon, it's in section 4.1

Luke Wilson-Mawer: pgearon, it's in section 4.1

14:38:05 <AxelPolleres> Lee: paul, can you remove ISSUE-22 from update.

Lee Feigenbaum: paul, can you remove ISSUE-22 from update.

14:38:33 <AxelPolleres> Lee: before closing that issue...

Lee Feigenbaum: before closing that issue...

14:39:05 <AxelPolleres> ... I want to have a call where we rush through issues, once we have FPWD out.

... I want to have a call where we rush through issues, once we have FPWD out.

14:39:19 <AxelPolleres> ... I saw that simon/kjetil created issues.

... I saw that simon/kjetil created issues.

14:39:34 <sandro> (I'm used to anyone can PROPOSE and issue, but only the chairs can declare it OPEN.)

Sandro Hawke: (I'm used to anyone can PROPOSE and issue, but only the chairs can declare it OPEN.)

14:39:45 <ericP> ISSUE+ don't abuse issues

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ISSUE+ don't abuse issues

14:39:56 <AxelPolleres> ... we might want to have a policy on that, please consider not adding issues, rather let's create/manage issues through chairs.

... we might want to have a policy on that, please consider not adding issues, rather let's create/manage issues through chairs.

14:39:57 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me

Chime Ogbuji: Zakim, unmute me

14:39:57 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie should no longer be muted

14:40:26 <AxelPolleres> topic: http-update

8. http-update

14:40:27 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/http-rdf-update/

14:40:33 <AxelPolleres> chime: no issues here

Chime Ogbuji: no issues here

14:40:33 <kasei> Zakim, unmute me

Greg Williams: Zakim, unmute me

14:40:33 <Zakim> kasei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should no longer be muted

14:40:41 <AxelPolleres> lee: all set, thanks to chime.

Lee Feigenbaum: all set, thanks to chime.

14:40:52 <AxelPolleres> topic: service description

9. service description

14:40:52 <kasei> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml

Greg Williams: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/service-description-1.1/xmlspec.xml

14:41:36 <AxelPolleres> q+

q+

14:41:48 <AlexPassant> q+ to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/service-description# being online before FPWD

Alex Passant: q+ to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/service-description# being online before FPWD

14:42:12 <AxelPolleres> q+ to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/43

q+ to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/43

14:42:19 <pgearon> Lee, I've removed issue 22

Paul Gearon: Lee, I've removed ISSUE-22

14:42:27 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres

14:42:27 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/43

Zakim IRC Bot: AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/43

14:42:30 <LeeF> thanks, pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: thanks, pgearon

14:42:42 <KjetilK> should the document link to ISSUE-44?

Kjetil Kjernsmo: should the document link to ISSUE-44?

14:43:28 <LukeWM> which document, KjetilK ?

Luke Wilson-Mawer: which document, KjetilK ?

14:43:38 <KjetilK> LukeWM, the HTTP Update

Kjetil Kjernsmo: LukeWM, the HTTP Update

14:43:45 <LukeWM> ah, OK

Luke Wilson-Mawer: ah, OK

14:43:50 <bglimm> Should I add that issue to the entailments doc then?

Birte Glimm: Should I add that issue to the entailments doc then?

14:43:55 <AxelPolleres> Lee: if we flag ISSUE-43 now in SD, it might be confusing

Lee Feigenbaum: if we flag ISSUE-43 now in SD, it might be confusing

14:44:03 <bglimm> Ok

Birte Glimm: Ok

14:44:05 <AxelPolleres> Axel: fair enough

Axel Polleres: fair enough

14:44:22 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me

14:44:22 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted

14:44:29 <AlexPassant> LeeF: i'm on the queue :)

Lee Feigenbaum: i'm on the queue :) [ Scribe Assist by Alex Passant ]

14:44:33 <kasei> Zakim, mute me

Greg Williams: Zakim, mute me

14:44:33 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted

14:44:39 <AxelPolleres> Lee: birte, would be good to have the issue in the entailment doc.

Lee Feigenbaum: birte, would be good to have the issue in the entailment doc.

14:44:44 <LeeF> ack AlexPassant

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AlexPassant

14:44:44 <Zakim> AlexPassant, you wanted to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/service-description# being online before FPWD

Zakim IRC Bot: AlexPassant, you wanted to ask about http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/service-description# being online before FPWD

14:45:23 <AlexPassant> either put the vocab online or mention that it's not here *yet*

Alex Passant: either put the vocab online or mention that it's not here *yet*

14:45:25 <AlexPassant> yes LeeF

Alex Passant: yes LeeF

14:45:39 <kasei> good catch. should also have agreement on the iri (?)

Greg Williams: good catch. should also have agreement on the iri (?)

14:45:39 <AxelPolleres> Alex: can we get the namespace http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/service-description# online before FPWD?

Alex Passant: can we get the namespace http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/service-description# online before FPWD?

14:45:56 <AxelPolleres> Eric: we could put a placeholder document

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we could put a placeholder document

14:46:03 <AlexPassant> yes

Alex Passant: yes

14:46:06 <kasei> Zakim, unmute me

Greg Williams: Zakim, unmute me

14:46:06 <Zakim> kasei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should no longer be muted

14:46:30 <AxelPolleres> greg: I have just couned that URI, is it ok wirth everyone?

Greg Williams: I have just couned that URI, is it ok wirth everyone?

14:47:23 <AxelPolleres> ... is that inline with W3C naming convention?

... is that inline with W3C naming convention?

14:47:23 <sandro> this is a namespace?    for XML or RDF?

Sandro Hawke: this is a namespace? for XML or RDF?

14:48:00 <sandro> www.w3.org/ns/service#

Sandro Hawke: www.w3.org/ns/service#

14:48:11 <sandro> www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service#

Sandro Hawke: www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service#

14:48:48 <sandro> yeah, I didn;'t mean to leave out "sparql"

Sandro Hawke: yeah, I didn;'t mean to leave out "sparql"

14:49:35 <AxelPolleres> andyS: maybe better to not block the namespace now, since it gives it more weight, we might not want that, unless we are sure about the namespace.

Andy Seaborne: maybe better to not block the namespace now, since it gives it more weight, we might not want that, unless we are sure about the namespace.

14:49:46 <sandro> There MUST be a document at the namespace URI if the namespace is used in a TR.

Sandro Hawke: There MUST be a document at the namespace URI if the namespace is used in a TR.

14:50:14 <sandro> yes, it can say "subject to change, etc"

Sandro Hawke: yes, it can say "subject to change, etc"

14:50:24 <AxelPolleres> sandro: pubrules prsecribe that there has to be a document at any namespace mentioned.

Sandro Hawke: pubrules prsecribe that there has to be a document at any namespace mentioned.

14:50:27 <sandro> yes

Sandro Hawke: yes

14:50:54 <sandro> and note in the Spec where the NS is mentions.

Sandro Hawke: and note in the Spec where the NS is mentions.

14:50:55 <AxelPolleres> Lee: anybody unhappy with www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service# ?

Lee Feigenbaum: anybody unhappy with www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service# ?

14:51:02 <SteveH> +1 to +description

Steve Harris: +1 to +description

14:51:04 <LeeF> sparql-service# vs. sparql-service-description#

Lee Feigenbaum: sparql-service# vs. sparql-service-description#

14:51:08 <SteveH> it's a little confusing otherwise

Steve Harris: it's a little confusing otherwise

14:51:13 <AxelPolleres> greg: prefer service description.

Greg Williams: prefer service description.

14:51:26 <sandro> "description" seems redundant to me, but I'm new.

Sandro Hawke: "description" seems redundant to me, but I'm new.

14:51:34 <AxelPolleres> +1 to include description

+1 to include description

14:51:37 <ericP> +1 to apathy

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to apathy

14:51:45 <SteveH> +0 to apathy

Steve Harris: +0 to apathy

14:52:04 <AxelPolleres> Lee: www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service-description# be it

Lee Feigenbaum: www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service-description# be it

14:52:07 <LeeF> ACTION: Eric and Lee to request .../ns/sparql-service-description# and put a "subject to change" doc there

ACTION: Eric and Lee to request .../ns/sparql-service-description# and put a "subject to change" doc there

14:52:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-126 - And Lee to request .../ns/sparql-service-description# and put a "subject to change" doc there [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-10-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-126 - And Lee to request .../ns/sparql-service-description# and put a "subject to change" doc there [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-10-27].

14:52:27 <AxelPolleres> eric: HTML for now there.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: HTML for now there.

14:52:49 <AxelPolleres> ... anybody objecting to conneg there?

... anybody objecting to conneg there?

14:53:01 <sandro> html for now, RDFa and/or conneg later

Sandro Hawke: html for now, RDFa and/or conneg later

14:53:06 <kasei> LeeF, will you change that ns in the doc when you are making changes today, or should I?

Greg Williams: LeeF, will you change that ns in the doc when you are making changes today, or should I?

14:53:07 <AxelPolleres> sandro: we can do RDFa later on

Sandro Hawke: we can do RDFa later on

14:53:08 <AndyS> if RDFa, then RDF as well please.

Andy Seaborne: if RDFa, then RDF as well please.

14:53:16 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to update NS in serv. description document

ACTION: Lee to update NS in serv. description document

14:53:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-127 - Update NS in serv. description document [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2009-10-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-127 - Update NS in serv. description document [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2009-10-27].

14:53:17 <sandro> plus 6 grddl transforms.  :-)

Sandro Hawke: plus 6 grddl transforms. :-)

14:53:32 <kasei> Zakim, mute me

Greg Williams: Zakim, mute me

14:53:32 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted

14:53:37 <AxelPolleres> topic: entailment document

10. entailment document

14:53:42 <AndyS> OK if server side ;-)

Andy Seaborne: OK if server side ;-)

14:53:52 <AxelPolleres> birte: all in CVS, looks alright for me.

Birte Glimm: all in CVS, looks alright for me.

14:54:03 <AxelPolleres> ... not sure how it looks for everyone.

... not sure how it looks for everyone.

14:54:06 <LeeF> to set access go to http://URI/URI/,access

Lee Feigenbaum: to set access go to http://URI/URI/,access

14:54:23 <AxelPolleres> eric: you should be able to set .access

Eric Prud'hommeaux: you should be able to set .access

14:54:29 <bglimm> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml

Birte Glimm: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml

14:55:26 <sandro> I see it in CVS.

Sandro Hawke: I see it in CVS.

14:55:29 <AxelPolleres> birte: might be a commit issue.

Birte Glimm: might be a commit issue.

14:55:41 <AxelPolleres> eric: let's pick that up after the call on irc.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: let's pick that up after the call on irc.

14:56:02 <AndyS> I see it in CVS.  last update Oct 20 15:42

Andy Seaborne: I see it in CVS. last update Oct 20 15:42

14:56:11 <AxelPolleres> lee: did you address all the issues we talked about?

Lee Feigenbaum: did you address all the issues we talked about?

14:56:50 <AxelPolleres> birte: yes, but might need more reviewers, removed entailment regimes we haven't really worked on, just left RDF/RDFS

Birte Glimm: yes, but might need more reviewers, removed entailment regimes we haven't really worked on, just left RDF/RDFS

14:57:03 <AxelPolleres> lee: should be ok.

Lee Feigenbaum: should be ok.

14:57:07 <sandro> 7 years bad luck

Sandro Hawke: 7 years bad luck

14:57:32 <AxelPolleres> topic: overall fpwd issues

11. overall fpwd issues

14:58:20 <AxelPolleres> eric: we will turn around a lot  at grammar, how many docs have grammar in them?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we will turn around a lot at grammar, how many docs have grammar in them?

14:58:43 <sandro> weird.   the mirrors say http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment doesn't exist, but when I did a an update -d on 2009/sparql it was created for me, with contents.

Sandro Hawke: weird. the mirrors say http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment doesn't exist, but when I did a an update -d on 2009/sparql it was created for me, with contents.

14:58:46 <LeeF> Regrets: IvanH, Orri
14:58:53 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me

14:58:53 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted

14:59:12 <AxelPolleres> andy/eric discussing grammar...

andy/eric discussing grammar...

15:00:10 <AxelPolleres> Andy: query isn't xmlspec'ed yet. is in HMTL, should be ok.

Andy Seaborne: query isn't xmlspec'ed yet. is in HMTL, should be ok.

15:00:22 <AxelPolleres> ... more important things than styling so far.

... more important things than styling so far.

15:01:05 <SteveH> +1 to aggregates

Steve Harris: +1 to aggregates

15:01:10 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

15:01:12 <AxelPolleres> Lee: 60mins up, would like to continue shortly about the aggregate issues.

Lee Feigenbaum: 60mins up, would like to continue shortly about the aggregate issues.

15:01:15 <AxelPolleres> +1

+1

15:01:31 <AxelPolleres> andy: we may not agree, but let's start the issues.

Andy Seaborne: we may not agree, but let's start the issues.

15:01:50 <SteveH> not really , no

Steve Harris: not really , no

15:01:50 <AxelPolleres> Lee: almost all include we should include count.

Lee Feigenbaum: almost all include we should include count.

15:01:52 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

15:02:01 <AxelPolleres> ... do we have a starting point for that?

... do we have a starting point for that?

15:02:24 <AxelPolleres> Andy: shall we start with the relational one?

Andy Seaborne: shall we start with the relational one?

15:02:25 <AndyS> COUNT, MIN, MAX, SUM

Andy Seaborne: COUNT, MIN, MAX, SUM

15:02:33 <LukeWM> AVG?

Luke Wilson-Mawer: AVG?

15:02:56 <LeeF> GROUP_CONCAT

Lee Feigenbaum: GROUP_CONCAT

15:03:09 <LeeF> SAMPLE

Lee Feigenbaum: SAMPLE

15:03:09 <AxelPolleres> basically any XPATH/XQuery funct that accepts sequences could be allowed?

basically any XPATH/XQuery funct that accepts sequences could be allowed?

15:03:10 <AndyS> StsveH - can you define it in email?  Still hazy on details (prob happy with it)

Andy Seaborne: StsveH - can you define it in email? Still hazy on details (prob happy with it)

15:03:30 <pgearon> first?

Paul Gearon: first?

15:03:33 <SteveH> AndyS, sure

Steve Harris: AndyS, sure

15:03:34 <AndyS> XP/XQ has issues in the details

Andy Seaborne: XP/XQ has issues in the details

15:03:37 <AxelPolleres> e.g. string-join

e.g. string-join

15:03:41 <AndyS> SteveH, ta

Andy Seaborne: SteveH, ta

15:03:46 <LeeF> STDDEV

Lee Feigenbaum: STDDEV

15:04:01 <AxelPolleres> lee:  statistics, e.g. STDDEV

Lee Feigenbaum: statistics, e.g. STDDEV

15:04:17 <ericP> my pref would have been COUNT, MIN, MAX, SUM, AVG, but i think a system that has debugging from the start is a very good developer draw

Eric Prud'hommeaux: my pref would have been COUNT, MIN, MAX, SUM, AVG, but i think a system that has debugging from the start is a very good developer draw

15:04:28 <ericP> so also like SAMPLE

Eric Prud'hommeaux: so also like SAMPLE

15:04:29 <pgearon> we'd be a laughing stock if we didn't include COUNT

Paul Gearon: we'd be a laughing stock if we didn't include COUNT

15:04:30 <LukeWM> I'd like AVG to be called something different.

Luke Wilson-Mawer: I'd like AVG to be called something different.

15:04:48 <AxelPolleres> COUNT  seems to be agreed.

COUNT seems to be agreed.

15:05:13 <pgearon> +1 for MIN/MAX (mixed types aside)

Paul Gearon: +1 for MIN/MAX (mixed types aside)

15:05:41 <AxelPolleres> axel: MIN/MAX don't add expressivity, but  very useful

Axel Polleres: MIN/MAX don't add expressivity, but very useful

15:06:04 <AxelPolleres> andyS: actually they do add: usable in GROUP BY

Andy Seaborne: actually they do add: usable in GROUP BY

15:06:42 <AxelPolleres> q+

q+

15:07:21 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres

15:07:34 <AxelPolleres> SUM also sounds like it has support

SUM also sounds like it has support

15:07:49 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:07:52 <AxelPolleres> AVG might need to be named different.

AVG might need to be named different.

15:07:53 <chimezie> q+ consensus on general, expected behavior of aggregate functions

Chime Ogbuji: q+ consensus on general, expected behavior of aggregate functions

15:08:00 <LeeF> ack AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS

15:08:04 <chimezie> q+

Chime Ogbuji: q+

15:08:07 <LeeF> ack consensus

Lee Feigenbaum: ack consensus

15:08:07 <Zakim> consensus, you wanted to comment on general, expected behavior of aggregate functions

Zakim IRC Bot: consensus, you wanted to comment on general, expected behavior of aggregate functions

15:08:17 <AxelPolleres> Lee: different naming was suggested by Luke

Lee Feigenbaum: different naming was suggested by Luke

15:08:19 <LeeF> q+ chimezie to discuss  consensus on general, expected behavior of aggregate functions

Lee Feigenbaum: q+ chimezie to discuss consensus on general, expected behavior of aggregate functions

15:08:27 <AxelPolleres> Luke: better call it "mean"

Luke Wilson-Mawer: better call it "mean"

15:08:43 <SteveH> can have AVG as an alias for MEAN

Steve Harris: can have AVG as an alias for MEAN

15:08:59 <SteveH> a la isURI and isIRI

Steve Harris: a la isURI and isIRI

15:09:01 <AxelPolleres> Lee: AVG would assume same behaviour as in SQL

Lee Feigenbaum: AVG would assume same behaviour as in SQL

15:09:16 <pgearon> MEAN implies a numeric operation, while people might try to apply AVG to other things... but what's the average of "foo" and "bar"? :-)

Paul Gearon: MEAN implies a numeric operation, while people might try to apply AVG to other things... but what's the average of "foo" and "bar"? :-)

15:09:44 <kasei> pgearon, probably depends on the current text encoding :)

Greg Williams: pgearon, probably depends on the current text encoding :)

15:09:46 <AxelPolleres> Lee: would lean towards AVG

Lee Feigenbaum: would lean towards AVG

15:10:04 <pgearon> +1 for aggregates

Paul Gearon: +1 for aggregates

15:10:18 <AxelPolleres> either both SUM and AVG or no arithmetic at all

either both SUM and AVG or no arithmetic at all

15:10:32 <pgearon> I mean, for and "average" aggregate

Paul Gearon: I mean, for and "average" aggregate

15:10:50 <LeeF> ISSUE: Should the average/arithmetic mean aggregate be called AVG, MEAN, both, or something else?

ISSUE: Should the average/arithmetic mean aggregate be called AVG, MEAN, both, or something else?

15:10:50 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-50 - Should the average/arithmetic mean aggregate be called AVG, MEAN, both, or something else? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/50/edit .

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-50 - Should the average/arithmetic mean aggregate be called AVG, MEAN, both, or something else? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/50/edit .

15:11:27 <LukeWM> no

Luke Wilson-Mawer: no

15:11:33 <kasei> 0

Greg Williams: 0

15:11:35 <SteveH> STDDEV is quite useful

Steve Harris: STDDEV is quite useful

15:11:41 <AxelPolleres> Lee: Excel has a core set that includes SDTDEV, does anybody think we should include that?

Lee Feigenbaum: Excel has a core set that includes SDTDEV, does anybody think we should include that?

15:12:12 <AxelPolleres> ... extensibility should enable including these.

... extensibility should enable including these.

15:12:40 <AxelPolleres> Lee: GROUPCONCAT very much like string-join

Lee Feigenbaum: GROUPCONCAT very much like string-join

15:12:53 <AxelPolleres> ... we use it all the time.

... we use it all the time.

15:13:02 <AndyS> Name is horrible!

Andy Seaborne: Name is horrible!

15:13:09 <kasei> is the "GROUP" in that just to distinguish it as an aggregate function?

Greg Williams: is the "GROUP" in that just to distinguish it as an aggregate function?

15:13:22 <SteveH> kasei, yes

Steve Harris: kasei, yes

15:13:26 <AxelPolleres> ... no strong feeling whether it should belong to thee core.

... no strong feeling whether it should belong to thee core.

15:13:29 <SteveH> the name is horrible, yes

Steve Harris: the name is horrible, yes

15:13:46 <KjetilK> +1

Kjetil Kjernsmo: +1

15:13:48 <SteveH> +1

Steve Harris: +1

15:13:55 <AndyS> 0

Andy Seaborne: 0

15:14:02 <LeeF> ack chimezie

Lee Feigenbaum: ack chimezie

15:14:02 <Zakim> chimezie, you wanted to discuss  consensus on general, expected behavior of aggregate functions

Zakim IRC Bot: chimezie, you wanted to discuss consensus on general, expected behavior of aggregate functions

15:14:02 <AxelPolleres> ... I am not wedded to the name "GROUPCONCAT", aside that would we want to include it?

... I am not wedded to the name "GROUPCONCAT", aside that would we want to include it?

15:14:10 <kasei> AndyS, seems tricky without the ability to escape the underlying values first

Greg Williams: AndyS, seems tricky without the ability to escape the underlying values first

15:14:17 <SteveH> defn, from mysql, FWIW: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/group-by-functions.html#function_group-concat

Steve Harris: defn, from mysql, FWIW: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/group-by-functions.html#function_group-concat

15:14:34 <AndyS> escaping?

Andy Seaborne: escaping?

15:14:40 <kasei> for csv

Greg Williams: for csv

15:14:40 <AxelPolleres> chime: shouldn't we rather think of criteria of what a well-behaved function should look like?

Chime Ogbuji: shouldn't we rather think of criteria of what a well-behaved function should look like?

15:14:44 <AndyS> StevbeH - does that escape sep?

Andy Seaborne: StevbeH - does that escape sep?

15:14:59 <AxelPolleres> ... than discussing the single aggregates?

... than discussing the single aggregates?

15:15:05 <SteveH> AndyS, no

Steve Harris: AndyS, no

15:15:12 <SteveH> not in mysql anyway

Steve Harris: not in mysql anyway

15:15:18 <AndyS> NP - add a fucntion call.

Andy Seaborne: NP - add a fucntion call.

15:15:21 <SteveH> yup

Steve Harris: yup

15:15:27 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:15:36 <AxelPolleres> Lee: we aren't even sure yet whether we want aggregates to define single return values.

Lee Feigenbaum: we aren't even sure yet whether we want aggregates to define single return values.

15:15:38 <LeeF> ack AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS

15:16:02 <AxelPolleres> AndyS: I already have a definition which ties it to a single value.

Andy Seaborne: I already have a definition which ties it to a single value.

15:16:33 <Zakim> -chimezie

Zakim IRC Bot: -chimezie

15:16:53 <AxelPolleres> Lee: will the issues we have discussed today go into the FPWD?

Lee Feigenbaum: will the issues we have discussed today go into the FPWD?

15:16:57 <AndyS> -99 to definition.

Andy Seaborne: -99 to definition.

15:17:26 <AxelPolleres> Steve: already a list of candidates there, which we might extend, no definition at this point.

Steve Harris: already a list of candidates there, which we might extend, no definition at this point.

15:17:41 <AxelPolleres> Lee: let's continue the list ...

Lee Feigenbaum: let's continue the list ...

15:17:47 <AxelPolleres> ... SAMPLE.

... SAMPLE.

15:17:48 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:17:56 <SteveH> SAMPLE is neccesary if we don't allow aggregate values to be projected, which had support previously

Steve Harris: SAMPLE is neccesary if we don't allow aggregate values to be projected, which had support previously

15:18:18 <AxelPolleres> q+ worried about non-determinism (as usual).

q+ worried about non-determinism (as usual).

15:18:20 <AndyS> ack me

Andy Seaborne: ack me

15:18:23 <LeeF> ack AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS

15:18:46 <AndyS> ah - "non aggregated variables" ??

Andy Seaborne: ah - "non aggregated variables" ??

15:18:53 <pgearon> what about just using FIRST?

Paul Gearon: what about just using FIRST?

15:18:58 <AxelPolleres> Lee: axel, yes it is nondeterministic, but it is very explcicitly non-deterministic.

Lee Feigenbaum: axel, yes it is nondeterministic, but it is very explcicitly non-deterministic.

15:19:09 <pgearon> +q

Paul Gearon: +q

15:19:15 <AndyS> A change to design but NP.

Andy Seaborne: A change to design but NP.

15:19:17 <LeeF> ack pgearon

Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon

15:19:35 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:19:54 <AxelPolleres> Paul: FIRST is fine in conncection with order by.

Paul Gearon: FIRST is fine in conncection with order by.

15:20:03 <SteveH> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:20:06 <LeeF> ack AndyS

Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS

15:20:14 <AxelPolleres> ... without order by SAMPLE is just the same as FIRST.

... without order by SAMPLE is just the same as FIRST.

15:20:25 <SteveH> q-

Steve Harris: q-

15:21:08 <AxelPolleres> Andy: seems there are different assumptions here, don't see how you can sort the variabes coming out of a group by.

Andy Seaborne: seems there are different assumptions here, don't see how you can sort the variabes coming out of a group by.

15:21:21 <SteveH> in SQL yu can do AGGREGATE (?x ORDER BY ...)

Steve Harris: in SQL yu can do AGGREGATE (?x ORDER BY ...)

15:21:30 <AndyS> MIN or MAX nearly= FIRST?

Andy Seaborne: MIN or MAX nearly= FIRST?

15:21:31 <AxelPolleres> paul: honestly, it's a while since I chekced that in SQL

Paul Gearon: honestly, it's a while since I chekced that in SQL

15:22:40 <SteveH> action?

Steve Harris: action?

15:22:57 <LeeF> PROPOSED: To include aggregates for COUNT, MIN, MAX, SUM, AVG and discuss others down the road

PROPOSED: To include aggregates for COUNT, MIN, MAX, SUM, AVG and discuss others down the road

15:23:04 <SteveH> seconded

Steve Harris: seconded

15:23:15 <bglimm> +1

Birte Glimm: +1

15:23:17 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

15:23:18 <pgearon> +1

Paul Gearon: +1

15:23:29 <LeeF> RESOLVED: To include aggregates for COUNT, MIN, MAX, SUM, AVG and discuss others down the road, no abstentions or objections

RESOLVED: To include aggregates for COUNT, MIN, MAX, SUM, AVG and discuss others down the road, no abstentions or objections

15:23:35 <iv_an_ru> +1

Ivan Mikhailov: +1

15:24:03 <AxelPolleres> +0.95 (guess we can get around the involved issues, so fair enough)

+0.95 (guess we can get around the involved issues, so fair enough)

15:24:30 <AxelPolleres> Lee: let's close... some more hint for those at ISWC

Lee Feigenbaum: let's close... some more hint for those at ISWC

15:25:09 <AxelPolleres> ... we have a panel at ISWC, Wendesday, Oct 28, 10:30

... we have a panel at ISWC, Wendesday, Oct 28, 10:30

15:25:34 <AxelPolleres> AndyS: When  will the agenda go out for F2F, was due.

Andy Seaborne: When will the agenda go out for F2F, was due.

15:25:49 <AxelPolleres> LeeF: aggregate issues, for sure.

Lee Feigenbaum: aggregate issues, for sure.

15:25:58 <AxelPolleres> ... stil soliciting issues.

... stil soliciting issues.

15:26:19 <AxelPolleres> Lee, Axel to do the agenda by end of the week.

Lee, Axel to do the agenda by end of the week.

15:26:31 <AndyS> Tues OK : Mon - not first thing

Andy Seaborne: Tues OK : Mon - not first thing

15:27:15 <LeeF> adjourned

Lee Feigenbaum: adjourned

15:27:15 <bglimm> Zakim, unute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unute me

15:27:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unute me', bglimm

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'unute me', bglimm

15:27:19 <bglimm> yes

Birte Glimm: yes

15:27:21 <Zakim> -KjetilK

Zakim IRC Bot: -KjetilK

15:27:26 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me

Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me

15:27:26 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted

15:27:27 <AxelPolleres> Axel: suggest we collect issues by end of the week and on next call discuss how to schedule them best

Axel Polleres: suggest we collect issues by end of the week and on next call discuss how to schedule them best

15:27:27 <Zakim> -SimonS

Zakim IRC Bot: -SimonS

15:27:28 <Zakim> -kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei

15:27:30 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

15:27:32 <AndyS> Thanks all.

Andy Seaborne: Thanks all.

15:27:33 <Zakim> -AlexPassant

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant

15:27:40 <AndyS> Was not me @AndyS then!

Andy Seaborne: Was not me @AndyS then!

15:27:44 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby

15:27:44 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public

rrsagent, make records public

15:27:45 <Zakim> -[Garlik]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[Garlik]

15:27:53 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who was on the phone?

Zakim, who was on the phone?

15:27:53 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AxelPolleres.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, AxelPolleres.

15:28:00 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, list attendees

Zakim, list attendees

15:28:00 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.518.276.aabb, +3539149aacc, pgearon, AxelPolleres, +0186528aadd, kasei, +7.950.aaee, AndyS, AlexPassant, bglimm, +049261287aagg, SimonS,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been +1.518.276.aabb, +3539149aacc, pgearon, AxelPolleres, +0186528aadd, kasei, +7.950.aaee, AndyS, AlexPassant, bglimm, +049261287aagg, SimonS,

15:28:03 <Zakim> ... SteveH, LukeWM, OlivierCorby, EricP, KjetilK, chimezie, LeeF, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: ... SteveH, LukeWM, OlivierCorby, EricP, KjetilK, chimezie, LeeF, Sandro

15:28:19 <pgearon> ericP, can you let me know when the renaming and other updates are done please? I'll update cvs once you let me know

Paul Gearon: ericP, can you let me know when the renaming and other updates are done please? I'll update cvs once you let me know

15:29:21 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public

rrsagent, make records public



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This revision (#6) generated 2009-11-04 16:59:55 UTC by 'apollere2', comments: None