13:26:16 <KjetilK> wow, LeeF is here!
Kjetil Kjernsmo: wow, LeeF is here! ←
13:58:33 <AndyS> zakim, this is sparql
(No events recorded for 32 minutes)
Andy Seaborne: zakim, this is sparql ←
13:58:33 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM ←
13:59:06 <Zakim> + +539149aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +539149aacc ←
13:59:19 <Zakim> +??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←
13:59:31 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aacc is probably me
Axel Polleres: Zakim, aacc is probably me ←
13:59:31 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AxelPolleres; got it ←
13:59:34 <AndyS> zakim, ??P28 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P28 is me ←
13:59:34 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
13:59:58 <pgearon> I didn't see it when I came on a couple of minutes ago
Paul Gearon: I didn't see it when I came on a couple of minutes ago ←
14:00:05 <Zakim> +??P30
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30 ←
14:00:09 <bijan> zakim, ??p30 is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??p30 is me ←
14:00:09 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
14:00:13 <Zakim> +??P31
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31 ←
14:00:21 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P31 is me
Alex Passant: Zakim, ??P31 is me ←
14:00:21 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
14:00:40 <Zakim> +??P34
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34 ←
14:00:44 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who's on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:00:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.518.276.aaaa, +1.312.863.aabb, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, ??P34
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +1.518.276.aaaa, +1.312.863.aabb, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, ??P34 ←
14:01:02 <Zakim> + +1.937.775.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.937.775.aadd ←
14:01:10 <kasei> Zakim, aaaa is me
Greg Williams: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:01:10 <Zakim> +kasei; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it ←
14:01:13 <LukeWM> +??P34 is LukeWM
Luke Wilson-Mawer: +??P34 is LukeWM ←
14:01:16 <Prateek> +Prateek
Prateek Jain: +Prateek ←
14:01:19 <Zakim> +??P36
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P36 ←
14:01:19 <LukeWM> zakim, +??P34 is LukeWM
Luke Wilson-Mawer: zakim, +??P34 is LukeWM ←
14:01:23 <Zakim> sorry, LukeWM, I do not recognize a party named '+??P34'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, LukeWM, I do not recognize a party named '+??P34' ←
14:01:31 <KjetilK> Zakim, ??P36 is me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, ??P36 is me ←
14:01:34 <Prateek> Zakim +1.937.775.aadd is Prateek
Prateek Jain: Zakim +1.937.775.aadd is Prateek ←
14:01:39 <Zakim> +KjetilK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +KjetilK; got it ←
14:01:43 <AxelPolleres> zakim, P34 is KjetilK
Axel Polleres: zakim, P34 is KjetilK ←
14:01:53 <Zakim> + +1.919.200.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.919.200.aaee ←
14:01:59 <Zakim> sorry, AxelPolleres, I do not recognize a party named 'P34'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AxelPolleres, I do not recognize a party named 'P34' ←
14:02:13 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, ??P36 is LukeWM
Axel Polleres: Zakim, ??P36 is LukeWM ←
14:02:19 <IvanHerman> zakim, dial IvanHerman-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial IvanHerman-voip ←
14:02:25 <KjetilK> Zakim, mute me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, mute me ←
14:02:27 <Zakim> -??P34
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P34 ←
14:02:36 <Zakim> I already had ??P36 as KjetilK, AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P36 as KjetilK, AxelPolleres ←
14:02:46 <Zakim> ok, IvanHerman; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IvanHerman; the call is being made ←
14:02:48 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:02:57 <Zakim> KjetilK should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK should now be muted ←
14:03:12 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone ←
14:03:13 <Zakim> +??P43
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P43 ←
14:03:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AxelPolleres ←
14:03:24 <IvanHerman> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
14:03:26 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:03:30 <KjetilK> AxelPolleres, I can hear you :-)
Kjetil Kjernsmo: AxelPolleres, I can hear you :-) ←
14:03:34 <LukeWM> zakim, ??P43 is LukeWM
Luke Wilson-Mawer: zakim, ??P43 is LukeWM ←
14:03:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, +1.312.863.aabb, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, +1.937.775.aadd, KjetilK (muted), +1.919.200.aaee, Ivan, ??P43
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, +1.312.863.aabb, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, +1.937.775.aadd, KjetilK (muted), +1.919.200.aaee, Ivan, ??P43 ←
14:03:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, +1.312.863.aabb, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, +1.937.775.aadd, KjetilK (muted), +1.919.200.aaee, Ivan, ??P43
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, +1.312.863.aabb, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, +1.937.775.aadd, KjetilK (muted), +1.919.200.aaee, Ivan, ??P43 ←
14:03:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see Prateek, SimonKJ, Zakim, LukeWM, bijan, AxelPolleres, LeeF, AndyS, pgearon, IvanMikhailov, IvanHerman, karl, KjetilK, AlexPassant, kasei, ericP, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Prateek, SimonKJ, Zakim, LukeWM, bijan, AxelPolleres, LeeF, AndyS, pgearon, IvanMikhailov, IvanHerman, karl, KjetilK, AlexPassant, kasei, ericP, trackbot ←
14:03:45 <Zakim> +LukeWM; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +LukeWM; got it ←
14:04:12 <SimonKJ> zakim, +1.919.200.aaee is SimonKJ
Simon Johnston: zakim, +1.919.200.aaee is SimonKJ ←
14:04:17 <IvanHerman> zakim, aabb is pgearon
Ivan Herman: zakim, aabb is pgearon ←
14:04:18 <Zakim> +SimonKJ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SimonKJ; got it ←
14:04:22 <Zakim> +pgearon; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon; got it ←
14:04:29 <IvanHerman> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
14:04:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, +1.937.775.aadd, KjetilK (muted), SimonKJ, Ivan, LukeWM
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, +1.937.775.aadd, KjetilK (muted), SimonKJ, Ivan, LukeWM ←
14:04:35 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:04:38 <Prateek> Zakim, +1.937.775.aadd is Prateek
Prateek Jain: Zakim, +1.937.775.aadd is Prateek ←
14:04:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, +1.937.775.aadd, KjetilK (muted), SimonKJ, Ivan, LukeWM
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, +1.937.775.aadd, KjetilK (muted), SimonKJ, Ivan, LukeWM ←
14:04:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see Prateek, SimonKJ, Zakim, LukeWM, bijan, AxelPolleres, LeeF, AndyS, pgearon, IvanMikhailov, IvanHerman, karl, KjetilK, AlexPassant, kasei, ericP, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Prateek, SimonKJ, Zakim, LukeWM, bijan, AxelPolleres, LeeF, AndyS, pgearon, IvanMikhailov, IvanHerman, karl, KjetilK, AlexPassant, kasei, ericP, trackbot ←
14:04:48 <Zakim> +Prateek; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Prateek; got it ←
14:04:50 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Axel Polleres: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:04:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, Prateek, KjetilK (muted), SimonKJ, Ivan, LukeWM
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see kasei, pgearon, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, Prateek, KjetilK (muted), SimonKJ, Ivan, LukeWM ←
14:05:01 <IvanHerman> scribe: IvanHerman
(Scribe set to Ivan Herman)
14:05:02 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-07-14
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-07-14 ←
14:05:05 <IvanHerman> scribenick: IvanHerman
14:05:35 <IvanHerman> regrets: Lee, Steve, EricP
14:06:05 <Zakim> + +01212803aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +01212803aaff ←
14:06:05 <IvanHerman> Topic: last week
14:06:21 <IvanHerman> axel: there was discussion on minus/not exist
Axel Polleres: there was discussion on minus/not exist ←
14:06:29 <IvanHerman> ... the idea was to go on on the list
... the idea was to go on on the list ←
14:06:34 <IvanMikhailov> Zakim, +01212803aaff is me
Ivan Mikhailov: Zakim, +01212803aaff is me ←
14:06:34 <Zakim> +IvanMikhailov; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +IvanMikhailov; got it ←
14:06:41 <IvanHerman> ... but we planned to look at update, for example,
... but we planned to look at update, for example, ←
14:06:52 <IvanHerman> ... and get tot he status of writing
... and get tot he status of writing ←
14:07:00 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-07
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-07 ←
14:07:02 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: admin, meeting minutes approval
Axel Polleres: admin, meeting minutes approval ←
14:07:13 <IvanHerman> ... any questions, missing
... any questions, missing ←
14:07:29 <IvanHerman> AndyS: there was some comments form simon
Andy Seaborne: there was some comments form simon ←
14:07:40 <IvanHerman> ... they are not in the minutes
... they are not in the minutes ←
14:07:53 <IvanHerman> ... (Simon Johnson)
... (Simon Johnson) ←
14:08:03 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: simon, would you write a mail to ammend the minutes
Axel Polleres: simon, would you write a mail to ammend the minutes ←
14:08:20 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
Greg Williams: Zakim, mute me ←
14:08:20 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should now be muted ←
14:08:31 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: andy, could you tell us quicklyu
Axel Polleres: andy, could you tell us quicklyu ←
14:08:47 <IvanHerman> AndyS: simon suggested to look at the use cases to direct our decisions
Andy Seaborne: simon suggested to look at the use cases to direct our decisions ←
14:08:56 <IvanHerman> ... this point did not make it in the minutes
... this point did not make it in the minutes ←
14:09:06 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: we can amend the minutes
Axel Polleres: we can amend the minutes ←
14:09:40 <IvanHerman> AndyS: there is now a record on this meeting, and there was no action item, so it might be o.k.
Andy Seaborne: there is now a record on this meeting, and there was no action item, so it might be o.k. ←
14:09:59 <IvanHerman> SimonKJ: I can also send a mail to the list to have it duly recorded
Simon Johnston: I can also send a mail to the list to have it duly recorded ←
14:10:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: SimonKJ to send a mail with comment on the minutes.
ACTION: SimonKJ to send a mail with comment on the minutes. ←
14:10:04 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - SimonKJ
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - SimonKJ ←
14:10:38 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-07
PROPOSED: approve minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-07 ←
14:10:50 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-07
RESOLVED: approve minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-07-07 ←
14:11:11 <IvanHerman> Topic: next meeting
14:11:17 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: next week,
Axel Polleres: next week, ←
14:11:24 <IvanHerman> ... steve should be the scribe
... steve should be the scribe ←
14:11:40 <IvanHerman> Topic: admin issue
14:11:50 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: team is working on the charter
Axel Polleres: team is working on the charter ←
14:12:09 <IvanHerman> ... it is a copy past of the proposed features
... it is a copy past of the proposed features ←
14:12:14 <IvanHerman> ... that we have identified
... that we have identified ←
14:12:28 <IvanHerman> ... the important thing that the schedule is quite tight
... the important thing that the schedule is quite tight ←
14:12:39 <IvanHerman> ... we should have a fpwd by September (ideally)
... we should have a fpwd by September (ideally) ←
14:12:49 <IvanHerman> ... the next few weeks should be dedicated to make this happen
... the next few weeks should be dedicated to make this happen ←
14:13:26 <IvanHerman> IvanHerman: difference between prev. charter and new charter: update is now a separate document.
Ivan Herman: difference between prev. charter and new charter: update is now a separate document. ←
14:13:32 <AndyS> q+ to seek clarification of scope of FPWD
Andy Seaborne: q+ to seek clarification of scope of FPWD ←
14:14:41 <IvanHerman> AndyS: separate protocol and update docs?
Andy Seaborne: separate protocol and update docs? ←
14:14:51 <IvanHerman> IvanHerman: we can leave that undefined
Ivan Herman: we can leave that undefined ←
14:14:57 <IvanHerman> ... for the moment.
... for the moment. ←
14:15:14 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
14:15:28 <IvanHerman> AndyS: where does service descriptions fit in?
Andy Seaborne: where does service descriptions fit in? ←
14:16:05 <IvanHerman> IvanHerman: i essentially copy/pasted the items from the f&R items, so it is there.
Ivan Herman: i essentially copy/pasted the items from the f&R items, so it is there. ←
14:16:10 <AndyS> ack AndyS
Andy Seaborne: ack AndyS ←
14:16:10 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to seek clarification of scope of FPWD
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to seek clarification of scope of FPWD ←
14:16:42 <IvanHerman> IvanHerman: plan to send to charter to W3M today to discuss it now or next week latest.
Ivan Herman: plan to send to charter to W3M today to discuss it now or next week latest. ←
14:17:10 <IvanHerman> Topic: liaisons?
14:17:13 <bijan> Not from OWL
Bijan Parsia: Not from OWL ←
14:17:14 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: any news?
Axel Polleres: any news? ←
14:17:19 <IvanHerman> orri: nothing
Orri Erling: nothing ←
14:17:20 <ericP> nothing from HCLS
Eric Prud'hommeaux: nothing from HCLS ←
14:17:26 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: from rif, nothing
Axel Polleres: from rif, nothing ←
14:17:30 <AlexPassant> nothing from socialweb
Alex Passant: nothing from socialweb ←
14:17:52 <bijan> I am
Bijan Parsia: I am ←
14:17:55 <bijan> Nothing to report
Bijan Parsia: Nothing to report ←
14:18:08 <IvanHerman> Topic: action records
14:18:15 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/ ←
14:18:33 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: few open actions, some old ones
Axel Polleres: few open actions, some old ones ←
14:19:00 <IvanHerman> ... action 16, 19: small changes on the minutes
... ACTION-16, 19: small changes on the minutes ←
14:19:16 <kasei> yes, 51 can be closed
Greg Williams: yes, 51 can be closed ←
14:19:27 <IvanHerman> ... action 51, to flesh out service descriptions proposal
... ACTION-51, to flesh out service descriptions proposal ←
14:19:29 <kasei> though there hasn't been any discussion yet :)
Greg Williams: though there hasn't been any discussion yet :) ←
14:19:49 <AndyS> action 41 is the minutes one, not 16, 19
Andy Seaborne: ACTION-41 is the minutes one, not 16, 19 ←
14:19:49 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 41
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 41 ←
14:20:05 <IvanHerman> topic: discussion on update
14:20:18 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: the general idea would be to recap what we said at the f2f
Axel Polleres: the general idea would be to recap what we said at the f2f ←
14:20:22 <IvanHerman> ... we raised several issues
... we raised several issues ←
14:20:33 <IvanHerman> ... start with the sparql update member submission
... start with the sparql update member submission ←
14:20:46 <IvanHerman> ... there are some questions whether any more alternatives should be considered
... there are some questions whether any more alternatives should be considered ←
14:20:57 <IvanHerman> ... we came tot he conclusions that we also want a RESTful interface
... we came tot he conclusions that we also want a RESTful interface ←
14:21:05 <IvanHerman> ... that can also be discussed in this telcom
... that can also be discussed in this telcom ←
14:21:22 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/Submission/SPARQL-Update/
Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/Submission/SPARQL-Update/ ←
14:21:46 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: i do not know whether anybody had a closer look again
Axel Polleres: i do not know whether anybody had a closer look again ←
14:21:59 <IvanHerman> ... if there are some comments on the submission at this point
... if there are some comments on the submission at this point ←
14:22:13 <IvanHerman> (everybody silent...)
(everybody silent...) ←
14:22:33 <Zakim> + +1.216.445.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.216.445.aagg ←
14:22:35 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: the simplest way to be is to start with that document and put in the issues that we discussed
Axel Polleres: the simplest way to be is to start with that document and put in the issues that we discussed ←
14:22:41 <john-l> Zakim, aagg is me
John Clark: Zakim, aagg is me ←
14:22:42 <Zakim> +john-l; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +john-l; got it ←
14:22:49 <IvanHerman> ... and then to hammer out as we go along
... and then to hammer out as we go along ←
14:23:09 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: we collected some issues on update in general
Axel Polleres: we collected some issues on update in general ←
14:23:23 <IvanHerman> ... there was already some discussions on alternatives
... there was already some discussions on alternatives ←
14:23:35 <AndyS> The Issues raised were 18-29
Andy Seaborne: The Issues raised were 18-29 ←
14:23:39 <IvanHerman> ... let us start with issue 18
... let us start with ISSUE-18 ←
14:23:50 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/18
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/18 ←
14:24:05 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: issue on concurrency in update
Axel Polleres: issue on concurrency in update ←
14:24:13 <IvanHerman> ... any opinion on what we should/could do?
... any opinion on what we should/could do? ←
14:24:23 <pgearon> +q
Paul Gearon: +q ←
14:24:26 <IvanHerman> ... anybody remembers the concrete points to open this issue?
... anybody remembers the concrete points to open this issue? ←
14:24:44 <IvanHerman> pgearon: i do not remember the original point, was wondering about transactionality of updates
Paul Gearon: i do not remember the original point, was wondering about transactionality of updates ←
14:24:59 <IvanHerman> ... the ARQ implementation has some commented out code in the java files
... the ARQ implementation has some commented out code in the java files ←
14:25:25 <IvanHerman> Orri: we do it in our implementations, it is available on virtuoso
Orri Erling: we do it in our implementations, it is available on virtuoso ←
14:25:47 <IvanHerman> (scribe has difficulties understaning orri)
(scribe has difficulties understaning orri) ←
14:26:03 <AndyS> Orri: hard to mandate transactions
Orri Erling: hard to mandate transactions [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:26:12 <AndyS> Orri: maybe optional feature
Orri Erling: maybe optional feature [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
14:26:13 <IvanHerman> ... i do not think it is good to require this for the implementations, it is better to make it optional
... i do not think it is good to require this for the implementations, it is better to make it optional ←
14:26:36 <IvanHerman> AndyS: what paul is referring to is not in the submission at all
Andy Seaborne: what paul is referring to is not in the submission at all ←
14:27:04 <IvanHerman> ... we had some discussions, it got taken out because transactionality is meaningless or difficult to implement in a proper way
... we had some discussions, it got taken out because transactionality is meaningless or difficult to implement in a proper way ←
14:27:23 <IvanHerman> ... there is no transaction mechanism to leverage on multiple operations
... there is no transaction mechanism to leverage on multiple operations ←
14:27:44 <IvanHerman> ... i do not think we should address the issue of transactions on more http calls, it is just too complicated
... i do not think we should address the issue of transactions on more http calls, it is just too complicated ←
14:28:00 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: you said that it is not covered in the current submission
Axel Polleres: you said that it is not covered in the current submission ←
14:28:29 <AndyS> The submission suggests that operations should be atomic.
Andy Seaborne: The submission suggests that operations should be atomic. ←
14:28:35 <IvanHerman> Orri: i do not think it is justified to say more about it here
Orri Erling: i do not think it is justified to say more about it here ←
14:28:40 <IvanHerman> ... it is an implementation thing
... it is an implementation thing ←
14:28:53 <IvanHerman> ... we should not go into this here
... we should not go into this here ←
14:29:13 <AxelPolleres> Andy, you mean we don't talk really abotu transactions, but just atomicity.
Axel Polleres: Andy, you mean we don't talk really abotu transactions, but just atomicity. ←
14:29:21 <IvanHerman> AndyS: i would not talk about transactions because it will bring in a lot of things and questions that we will not address with the time scale we have
Andy Seaborne: i would not talk about transactions because it will bring in a lot of things and questions that we will not address with the time scale we have ←
14:29:22 <pgearon> Mulgara has transactions, but I've dropped it in the context of HTTP support. That said, I do use them to make operations atomic
Paul Gearon: Mulgara has transactions, but I've dropped it in the context of HTTP support. That said, I do use them to make operations atomic ←
14:30:05 <KjetilK> +1 on atomicity on one HTTP call, and not deal with multiple HTTP calls
Kjetil Kjernsmo: +1 on atomicity on one HTTP call, and not deal with multiple HTTP calls ←
14:30:22 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: we seem to agree that we do not want to deal with any higher transactions at all
Axel Polleres: we seem to agree that we do not want to deal with any higher transactions at all ←
14:30:28 <IvanHerman> ... do we need to make it more explicit?
... do we need to make it more explicit? ←
14:30:58 <IvanHerman> (scribe has again serious difficulties understanding orri:-(
(scribe has again serious difficulties understanding orri:-( ←
14:31:32 <Zakim> -??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P1 ←
14:32:09 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
14:32:12 <IvanHerman> AndyS: the agenda suggested to collect independent reviewers and look at the proposal
Andy Seaborne: the agenda suggested to collect independent reviewers and look at the proposal ←
14:32:27 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: yes, true, let us go through the issues first and see
Axel Polleres: yes, true, let us go through the issues first and see ←
14:32:33 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is orri
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P1 is orri ←
14:32:33 <Zakim> +orri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +orri; got it ←
14:33:20 <IvanHerman> orri: it is the experiecne when we use update we mostly use in a way that that a single request goes to the millions of tirples, and doing this with transactional that would be unrealistic
Orri Erling: it is the experiecne when we use update we mostly use in a way that that a single request goes to the millions of tirples, and doing this with transactional that would be unrealistic ←
14:33:31 <IvanHerman> ... experience shows that trans. are not really desired
... experience shows that trans. are not really desired ←
14:33:33 <SimonKJ> +1 on atomicity on one HTTP call (that's how our HTTP update API works)
Simon Johnston: +1 on atomicity on one HTTP call (that's how our HTTP update API works) ←
14:33:37 <IvanHerman> s/tirples/triples/
s/tirples/triples/ ←
14:33:55 <IvanHerman> orri: this is just an observation from our usage history
Orri Erling: this is just an observation from our usage history ←
14:34:25 <AndyS> we already have concurrency - overload that
Andy Seaborne: we already have concurrency - overload that ←
14:34:42 <IvanHerman> orri: you could specify in the protocol that you want it atomic, and if not, you get half transactions
Orri Erling: you could specify in the protocol that you want it atomic, and if not, you get half transactions ←
14:34:51 <IvanHerman> ... that should be possible
... that should be possible ←
14:35:03 <IvanHerman> ... what implementations would do beyond that is their stuff
... what implementations would do beyond that is their stuff ←
14:35:07 <IvanHerman> ... not to be standardized
... not to be standardized ←
14:35:20 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: one more issue whether we make atomicity of the update optional or not
Axel Polleres: one more issue whether we make atomicity of the update optional or not ←
14:35:25 <IvanHerman> ... is this something we can agree on
... is this something we can agree on ←
14:35:33 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
14:35:57 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Orri to mail on ISSUE of atomicity of updates.
ACTION: Orri to mail on ISSUE of atomicity of updates. ←
14:35:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-52 - Mail on ISSUE of atomicity of updates. [on Orri Erling - due 2009-07-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-52 - Mail on ISSUE of atomicity of updates. [on Orri Erling - due 2009-07-21]. ←
14:36:11 <AxelPolleres> ack pgearon
Axel Polleres: ack pgearon ←
14:36:13 <pgearon> ack pgearon
Paul Gearon: ack pgearon ←
14:36:26 <IvanMikhailov> My $0.02 re. transactions is that user's don't know enough about them so they can create huge transaction images just by mistake. So the safe default should be "no transactionality".
Ivan Mikhailov: My $0.02 re. transactions is that user's don't know enough about them so they can create huge transaction images just by mistake. So the safe default should be "no transactionality". ←
14:36:27 <IvanHerman> <AndyS> talking about agreeing things
<AndyS> talking about agreeing things ←
14:36:27 <KjetilK> ack AndyS
Kjetil Kjernsmo: ack AndyS ←
14:36:39 <IvanHerman> ... until we see the whole thing we should not agree on anything
... until we see the whole thing we should not agree on anything ←
14:36:40 <SimonKJ> q+
Simon Johnston: q+ ←
14:37:08 <IvanHerman> orri: transactions are very complicated, let us not get there
Orri Erling: transactions are very complicated, let us not get there ←
14:37:33 <IvanHerman> SimonKJ: if we can find some ways of simplifying things that would do ourselves a big favor
Simon Johnston: if we can find some ways of simplifying things that would do ourselves a big favor ←
14:37:57 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/open
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/open ←
14:38:21 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: we have not talked about concurrencey
Axel Polleres: we have not talked about concurrencey ←
14:38:27 <IvanHerman> ... this issue may be on the protocol level
... this issue may be on the protocol level ←
14:38:35 <IvanHerman> ... (issue 18)
14:38:46 <IvanHerman> <AxelPolleres: issue 19, several discussions on security issues
<AxelPolleres: ISSUE-19, several discussions on security issues ←
14:39:03 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0302.html
Axel Polleres: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0302.html ←
14:39:34 <AxelPolleres> insert per reference raises
Axel Polleres: insert per reference raises ←
14:39:36 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: this mail indicates that this issue is concerned whether we allow insert and update per reference to URIS, and whether this has security issues
Axel Polleres: this mail indicates that this issue is concerned whether we allow insert and update per reference to URIS, and whether this has security issues ←
14:39:48 <IvanHerman> Orri: we do not have a security model to begin with...
Orri Erling: we do not have a security model to begin with... ←
14:39:59 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: i think steve was concerned about this
Axel Polleres: i think steve was concerned about this ←
14:40:01 <LukeWM> q+
Luke Wilson-Mawer: q+ ←
14:40:11 <IvanHerman> orri: what is an update per reference?
Orri Erling: what is an update per reference? ←
14:40:13 <IvanMikhailov> I'm implementing SPARQL security now in Virtuoso but I don't have _good_ security model either.
Ivan Mikhailov: I'm implementing SPARQL security now in Virtuoso but I don't have _good_ security model either. ←
14:40:28 <KjetilK> Zakim, unmute me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:40:28 <Zakim> KjetilK should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK should no longer be muted ←
14:40:29 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: insert <URI> where <URI> is a reference to a dataset
Axel Polleres: insert <URI> where <URI> is a reference to a dataset ←
14:40:41 <KjetilK> q+ to say that's not how I understand it
Kjetil Kjernsmo: q+ to say that's not how I understand it ←
14:40:41 <AxelPolleres> ack SimonKJ
Axel Polleres: ack SimonKJ ←
14:40:54 <IvanHerman> SimonKJ: i think we said the server would have some security model
Simon Johnston: i think we said the server would have some security model ←
14:41:07 <IvanHerman> .. the protocol describes what happens if that is violated
.. the protocol describes what happens if that is violated ←
14:41:16 <IvanHerman> ... it was tough for us to come up with one model
... it was tough for us to come up with one model ←
14:41:26 <IvanHerman> ... we described what the error conditions would be
... we described what the error conditions would be ←
14:41:40 <IvanHerman> ... the security model is something that gets very complex
... the security model is something that gets very complex ←
14:42:06 <AxelPolleres> ack LukeWM
Axel Polleres: ack LukeWM ←
14:42:28 <IvanHerman> LukeWM: spoke to steve, he was not completely against the update per reference, he just said there might be security issues with it
Luke Wilson-Mawer: spoke to steve, he was not completely against the update per reference, he just said there might be security issues with it ←
14:42:47 <AxelPolleres> ack KjetilK
Axel Polleres: ack KjetilK ←
14:42:47 <Zakim> KjetilK, you wanted to say that's not how I understand it
Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK, you wanted to say that's not how I understand it ←
14:43:00 <IvanHerman> KjetilK: we should distinguish whether the URI is a graph name or a file
Kjetil Kjernsmo: we should distinguish whether the URI is a graph name or a file ←
14:43:09 <IvanHerman> ... the security is not an insert graph
... the security is not an insert graph ←
14:43:31 <KjetilK> Zakim, mute me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, mute me ←
14:43:31 <Zakim> KjetilK should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK should now be muted ←
14:43:52 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: i would suggest to go through the other issues
Axel Polleres: i would suggest to go through the other issues ←
14:44:01 <IvanHerman> ... we do not have any new revelations on the security...
... we do not have any new revelations on the security... ←
14:44:15 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/20
Axel Polleres: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/20 ←
14:44:17 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: issue 20,
14:44:17 <AndyS> q+ to ask about the agenda
Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask about the agenda ←
14:44:58 <IvanHerman> AndyS: in the agenda it says 'start discussing' there
Andy Seaborne: in the agenda it says 'start discussing' there ←
14:45:14 <IvanHerman> ... the idea was to have independent reviewers
... the idea was to have independent reviewers ←
14:45:47 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: two more issues: allow more complex operations (eg, change)
Axel Polleres: two more issues: allow more complex operations (eg, change) ←
14:45:51 <AndyS> also, the suggestion was to ask for strawman for protocol side
Andy Seaborne: also, the suggestion was to ask for strawman for protocol side ←
14:46:04 <IvanHerman> ... that should have a close look at the update doc and decide which ones
... that should have a close look at the update doc and decide which ones ←
14:46:46 <IvanHerman> ... the other issue is whether we need update wsdl version of the protocol with respect to update
... the other issue is whether we need update wsdl version of the protocol with respect to update ←
14:46:51 <IvanHerman> (issues 21, and 22)
(issues 21, and 22) ←
14:47:10 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: we should have some more independent reviews of the sparql update submission
Axel Polleres: we should have some more independent reviews of the sparql update submission ←
14:47:15 <IvanHerman> ... to get things going
... to get things going ←
14:47:21 <LukeWM> q+
Luke Wilson-Mawer: q+ ←
14:47:26 <AndyS> ack me
Andy Seaborne: ack me ←
14:47:26 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about the agenda
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask about the agenda ←
14:47:26 <IvanHerman> ... to identify things that might be missing
... to identify things that might be missing ←
14:48:02 <IvanHerman> LukeWM: we can do a review with Steve
Luke Wilson-Mawer: we can do a review with Steve ←
14:48:06 <IvanHerman> ... when is the deadline?
... when is the deadline? ←
14:48:29 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: as soon as possible... next telco?
Axel Polleres: as soon as possible... next telco? ←
14:48:36 <IvanHerman> LukeWM: i volunteer a week
Luke Wilson-Mawer: i volunteer a week ←
14:48:56 <ericP> review for what parameters?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: review for what parameters? ←
14:49:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Luke to review SPAQRL update submission
ACTION: Luke to review SPAQRL update submission ←
14:49:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-53 - Review SPAQRL update submission [on Luke Wilson-Mawer - due 2009-07-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-53 - Review SPAQRL update submission [on Luke Wilson-Mawer - due 2009-07-21]. ←
14:49:10 <AlexPassant> I'll review it
Alex Passant: I'll review it ←
14:49:12 <SimonKJ> I can volunteer some IBM help
Simon Johnston: I can volunteer some IBM help ←
14:49:27 <ericP> do implementations count as reviews?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: do implementations count as reviews? ←
14:49:31 <IvanHerman> action: AlexPassant to review SPARQL Update submisson
ACTION: AlexPassant to review SPARQL Update submisson ←
14:49:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-54 - Review SPARQL Update submisson [on Alexandre Passant - due 2009-07-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-54 - Review SPARQL Update submisson [on Alexandre Passant - due 2009-07-21]. ←
14:49:54 <AndyS> Lighter weight, if it helps, just emails on specific points to the list would be good - I can collect them together.
Andy Seaborne: Lighter weight, if it helps, just emails on specific points to the list would be good - I can collect them together. ←
14:50:03 <IvanHerman> action: SimonKJ to review SPARQL update submission
ACTION: SimonKJ to review SPARQL update submission ←
14:50:03 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - SimonKJ
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - SimonKJ ←
14:50:24 <LukeWM> q+
Luke Wilson-Mawer: q+ ←
14:51:11 <pgearon> +q
Paul Gearon: +q ←
14:51:34 <IvanHerman> LukeWM: steve is on the proposal, so me being a reviewer may not be independent...
Luke Wilson-Mawer: steve is on the proposal, so me being a reviewer may not be independent... ←
14:51:44 <IvanHerman> ack LukeWM
ack LukeWM ←
14:51:56 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: we have two independent ones, so it is o.k.
Axel Polleres: we have two independent ones, so it is o.k. ←
14:52:10 <KjetilK> ack pgearon
Kjetil Kjernsmo: ack pgearon ←
14:52:15 <IvanHerman> pgearon: getting back to the agenda, are there other alternatives to consider?
Paul Gearon: getting back to the agenda, are there other alternatives to consider? ←
14:52:24 <IvanHerman> ... it was on the agenda
... it was on the agenda ←
14:52:50 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: in discussions i had the impression that there is an agreement in the group that sparql update submission is a good basis
Axel Polleres: in discussions i had the impression that there is an agreement in the group that sparql update submission is a good basis ←
14:53:23 <IvanHerman> ... it would be nice to get a summary from the submittors on whether there are features that had not been added
... it would be nice to get a summary from the submittors on whether there are features that had not been added ←
14:53:54 <IvanHerman> ... anybody from the submittors who would like to summarize this?
... anybody from the submittors who would like to summarize this? ←
14:54:08 <AlexPassant> SPARQL++ (from ARC2) do not have much differences with SPARUL in terms of update features
Alex Passant: SPARQL++ (from ARC2) do not have much differences with SPARUL in terms of update features ←
14:54:17 <IvanHerman> AndyS: there might be more differences as we move forward
Andy Seaborne: there might be more differences as we move forward ←
14:54:40 <pgearon> +q
Paul Gearon: +q ←
14:54:43 <IvanHerman> AndyS: most of what i remember is in syntax
Andy Seaborne: most of what i remember is in syntax ←
14:54:51 <KjetilK> The only issue we've had with SPARUL I posted about here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0315.html
Kjetil Kjernsmo: The only issue we've had with SPARUL I posted about here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0315.html ←
14:55:13 <IvanHerman> pgearon: I do notice that we have been talking about the sparul, but we also need to consider how sparul will affect the protocol
Paul Gearon: I do notice that we have been talking about the sparul, but we also need to consider how sparul will affect the protocol ←
14:55:44 <IvanHerman> ... i do not think that has been considered
... i do not think that has been considered ←
14:56:04 <IvanHerman> ... we looked at the restful part but not the effects of sparul ont he protocol
... we looked at the restful part but not the effects of sparul ont he protocol ←
14:56:23 <IvanHerman> pgearon: the protocol says use get for a query and a post for large queries
Paul Gearon: the protocol says use get for a query and a post for large queries ←
14:56:35 <IvanHerman> ... we will have to exclude get for delete or insert, for examples
... we will have to exclude get for delete or insert, for examples ←
14:56:48 <IvanHerman> ... we need to use the appropriate http methods
... we need to use the appropriate http methods ←
14:57:01 <IvanHerman> ... the current protocol will not be appropriate for our needs
... the current protocol will not be appropriate for our needs ←
14:57:10 <IvanHerman> ... it may not directly fit into rest
... it may not directly fit into rest ←
14:57:21 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: that mandates a new issue?
Axel Polleres: that mandates a new issue? ←
14:57:59 <IvanHerman> pgearon: yes, I think so; we have to say that if you do an updated you should not use get, etc. It may not be a big issue, but it has to be said
Paul Gearon: yes, I think so; we have to say that if you do an updated you should not use get, etc. It may not be a big issue, but it has to be said ←
14:58:15 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE: implications of updates on protocol, regarding HTP methods
ISSUE: implications of updates on protocol, regarding HTP methods ←
14:58:15 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-32 - Implications of updates on protocol, regarding HTP methods ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/32/edit .
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-32 - Implications of updates on protocol, regarding HTP methods ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/32/edit . ←
14:58:46 <IvanHerman> AndyS: a related issue, we found it useful to have different endpoints for query and update, because we can apply different security methods for the two
Andy Seaborne: a related issue, we found it useful to have different endpoints for query and update, because we can apply different security methods for the two ←
14:58:52 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: would you require that?
Axel Polleres: would you require that? ←
14:59:03 <KjetilK> +1 to that
Kjetil Kjernsmo: +1 to that ←
14:59:03 <pgearon> We've done the same thing
Paul Gearon: We've done the same thing ←
14:59:10 <IvanHerman> AndyS: that is only the experience we had, two endpoint make things easier
Andy Seaborne: that is only the experience we had, two endpoint make things easier ←
14:59:30 <pgearon> though our "updating" endpoint also allows queries on it
Paul Gearon: though our "updating" endpoint also allows queries on it ←
14:59:36 <SimonKJ> +1 for the two endpoint comment
Simon Johnston: +1 for the two endpoint comment ←
15:00:10 <KjetilK> q+
Kjetil Kjernsmo: q+ ←
15:00:24 <SimonKJ> q+
Simon Johnston: q+ ←
15:00:25 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: we had one more agenda item: anybody would start on the restful part of the update
Axel Polleres: we had one more agenda item: anybody would start on the restful part of the update ←
15:00:30 <pgearon> ack pgearon
Paul Gearon: ack pgearon ←
15:00:33 <KjetilK> ack em
Kjetil Kjernsmo: ack em ←
15:00:35 <KjetilK> ack me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: ack me ←
15:00:53 <pgearon> Zakim, ack me
Paul Gearon: Zakim, ack me ←
15:00:54 <Zakim> I see SimonKJ on the speaker queue
Zakim IRC Bot: I see SimonKJ on the speaker queue ←
15:01:00 <IvanHerman> KjetilK: do we want to have a summary of the different proposals
Kjetil Kjernsmo: do we want to have a summary of the different proposals ←
15:01:17 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: there has been different discussions on the protocol
Axel Polleres: there has been different discussions on the protocol ←
15:01:32 <IvanHerman> ... the question is whether we could find something that we could put out as a strawman
... the question is whether we could find something that we could put out as a strawman ←
15:01:41 <IvanHerman> KjetilK: there seems to be 3 different directions now
Kjetil Kjernsmo: there seems to be 3 different directions now ←
15:01:53 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: paul to summarize ISSUE-32
ACTION: paul to summarize ISSUE-32 ←
15:01:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-55 - Summarize ISSUE-32 [on Paul Gearon - due 2009-07-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-55 - Summarize ISSUE-32 [on Paul Gearon - due 2009-07-21]. ←
15:01:57 <IvanHerman> 1. use what can be used with delete and post
1. use what can be used with delete and post ←
15:02:40 <KjetilK> 1. specify what can be done simply with PUT, POST and DELETE
Kjetil Kjernsmo: 1. specify what can be done simply with PUT, POST and DELETE ←
15:02:50 <KjetilK> 2. Add a graph parameter of some sort
Kjetil Kjernsmo: 2. Add a graph parameter of some sort ←
15:02:58 <KjetilK> 3. The IBM proposal
Kjetil Kjernsmo: 3. The IBM proposal ←
15:03:23 <IvanHerman> KjetilK: I can write down these things more concretely in a mail
Kjetil Kjernsmo: I can write down these things more concretely in a mail ←
15:03:43 <IvanHerman> ... if I get online from my mobile from my vacations:-)
... if I get online from my mobile from my vacations:-) ←
15:03:50 <IvanHerman> AxelPolleres: that would be great
Axel Polleres: that would be great ←
15:04:12 <pgearon> I need to note that I can't commit to a due date of 2009-07-21. I can only commit to 2009-07-28
Paul Gearon: I need to note that I can't commit to a due date of 2009-07-21. I can only commit to 2009-07-28 ←
15:04:24 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Kjetil to summarize RESTFul options for update.
ACTION: Kjetil to summarize RESTFul options for update. ←
15:04:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-56 - Summarize RESTFul options for update. [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2009-07-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-56 - Summarize RESTFul options for update. [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2009-07-21]. ←
15:04:51 <IvanHerman> --- meeting adjurned ---
--- meeting adjurned --- ←
15:04:52 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
15:04:55 <AndyS> Thanks all
Andy Seaborne: Thanks all ←
15:04:59 <AlexPassant> thanks
Alex Passant: thanks ←
15:05:02 <Zakim> -orri
Zakim IRC Bot: -orri ←
15:05:04 <SimonKJ> thanks
Simon Johnston: thanks ←
15:05:05 <Zakim> -john-l
Zakim IRC Bot: -john-l ←
15:05:06 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:05:07 <LukeWM> thanks
Luke Wilson-Mawer: thanks ←
15:05:08 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:05:14 <Zakim> -Prateek
Zakim IRC Bot: -Prateek ←
15:05:15 <AndyS> Regrets next week: Paul Gearon
Andy Seaborne: Regrets next week: Paul Gearon ←
15:05:29 <Zakim> -LukeWM
Zakim IRC Bot: -LukeWM ←
15:05:41 <Zakim> -IvanMikhailov
Zakim IRC Bot: -IvanMikhailov ←
15:05:48 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
15:05:51 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: SimonKJ to add on Kjetil's proposal
ACTION: SimonKJ to add on Kjetil's proposal ←
15:05:51 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - SimonKJ
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - SimonKJ ←
15:05:54 <IvanMikhailov> ups...
Ivan Mikhailov: ups... ←
15:06:19 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to draft minutes
ACTION: Axel to draft minutes ←
15:06:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Draft minutes [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-07-21].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-57 - Draft minutes [on Axel Polleres - due 2009-07-21]. ←
15:06:32 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, list attendees
Axel Polleres: Zakim, list attendees ←
15:06:32 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.518.276.aaaa, +1.312.863.aabb, +539149aacc, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, kasei, KjetilK, IvanHerman, LukeWM, SimonKJ, pgearon, IvanMikhailov
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been +1.518.276.aaaa, +1.312.863.aabb, +539149aacc, AxelPolleres, AndyS, bijan, AlexPassant, kasei, KjetilK, IvanHerman, LukeWM, SimonKJ, pgearon, IvanMikhailov ←
15:06:36 <Zakim> ... Prateek, IvanMikhailov, +1.216.445.aagg, john-l, orri
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Prateek, IvanMikhailov, +1.216.445.aagg, john-l, orri ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2009-07-15 09:46:09 UTC by 'unknown', comments: 'I forgot to run RRSAgent so the log had to be massaged to work. I hope things are fine nevertheless'