13:55:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
13:55:44 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←
13:55:45 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:55:45 <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2009
13:55:49 <LeeF> Zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: Zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
13:55:49 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←
13:55:58 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
13:56:03 <LeeF> Scribenick: KjetilK
(Scribe set to Kjetil Kjernsmo)
13:56:12 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-06-30
13:56:12 <AndyS> Present: LeeF, AndyS, kasei, AlexPassant, bglimm, pgearon, Prateek, Orri, EricP, AxelPolleres, swh, LukeWM, KjetilK, SimonS, iv_an_ru
13:57:45 <iv_an_ru> Orri got problem with his connection so he is missing today.
Ivan Mikhailov: Orri got problem with his connection so he is missing today. ←
13:57:47 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
13:58:19 <AndyS> Request for agenda addition: under "update" to discuss whether to start with the submission as the strawman for the update language. Are there alternatives to consider? (After strawman -- start throwing rocks at it to test it out)
Andy Seaborne: Request for agenda addition: under "update" to discuss whether to start with the submission as the strawman for the update language. Are there alternatives to consider? (After strawman -- start throwing rocks at it to test it out) ←
13:58:35 <LeeF> AndyS, ack
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, ack ←
14:00:21 <LeeF> Regrets: Chimezie, SimonKJ, Bijan
14:00:57 <AndyS> bglimm, if there is an example, I'd appreciate seeing it to be informed about the issues but theer is no time-critical issue here for me.
Andy Seaborne: bglimm, if there is an example, I'd appreciate seeing it to be informed about the issues but theer is no time-critical issue here for me. ←
14:01:22 <bglimm> I can check the OWL tests for one, but I haven't done that yet
Birte Glimm: I can check the OWL tests for one, but I haven't done that yet ←
14:01:51 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:01:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, kasei (muted), AlexPassant, bglimm (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, kasei (muted), AlexPassant, bglimm (muted) ←
14:05:28 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:05:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, kasei (muted), AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), pgearon, Prateek
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, kasei (muted), AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), pgearon, Prateek ←
14:06:29 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-office ←
14:06:34 <AndyS> Scribenick: AndyS
(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)
14:06:53 <AndyS> Scribe: AndyS
14:06:56 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-23
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-23 ←
14:07:19 <bglimm> +1
Birte Glimm: +1 ←
14:07:54 <AndyS> RESOLVED Accepted the minutes of the meeting of 2009-06-23
RESOLVED Accepted the minutes of the meeting of 2009-06-23 ←
14:08:35 <AxelPolleres> regrets for next week
Axel Polleres: regrets for next week ←
14:08:49 <AndyS> Next meeting: July 7
Next meeting: July 7 ←
14:10:05 <LeeF> Please let me know if you'll be on holiday anytime over the rest of the summer
Lee Feigenbaum: Please let me know if you'll be on holiday anytime over the rest of the summer ←
14:10:16 <AndyS> RDB2RDB WG: Now has 2 co-chairs.
RDB2RDB WG: Now has 2 co-chairs. ←
14:10:33 <AndyS> ... and will start soon.
... and will start soon. ←
14:11:07 <AndyS> Nothing else from liaisons
Nothing else from liaisons ←
14:11:22 <AndyS> Topic: Open Actions
14:11:35 <AndyS> LeeF: Please close your open actions.
Lee Feigenbaum: Please close your open actions. ←
14:11:45 <AndyS> Topic: FPWD of F&R
14:12:09 <AndyS> Input for charter for phase II of SPARQL WG
Input for charter for phase II of SPARQL WG ←
14:12:32 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.114 as First Public Working Draft
PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.114 as First Public Working Draft ←
14:12:35 <AlexPassant> wrt open actions, can LeeF or AxelPolleres close http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/43 ? (already discussed previously)
Alex Passant: wrt open actions, can LeeF or AxelPolleres close http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/43 ? (already discussed previously) ←
14:13:22 <AndyS> incorporates changes from last week: text for time permitting features, language fixes, OWL Direct semantics included
incorporates changes from last week: text for time permitting features, language fixes, OWL Direct semantics included ←
14:13:50 <AxelPolleres> alex, done
Axel Polleres: alex, done ←
14:13:51 <AndyS> Any reservations?
Any reservations? ←
14:14:03 <AndyS> (none)
(none) ←
14:14:15 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.114 as First Public Working Draft
PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.114 as First Public Working Draft ←
14:14:29 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.114 as First Public Working Draft
RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.114 as First Public Working Draft ←
14:15:01 <AndyS> No objections or abstentions
No objections or abstentions ←
14:15:08 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:15:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, kasei (muted), AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), pgearon, Prateek, EricP, Orri, AxelPolleres, [Garlik]
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, kasei (muted), AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), pgearon, Prateek, EricP, Orri, AxelPolleres, [Garlik] ←
14:15:10 <Zakim> [Garlik] has swh, LukeWM
Zakim IRC Bot: [Garlik] has swh, LukeWM ←
14:15:17 <LeeF> ACTION: Eric to work with Lee to publish FPWD of features & rationales
ACTION: Eric to work with Lee to publish FPWD of features & rationales ←
14:15:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Work with Lee to publish FPWD of features & rationales [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-50 - Work with Lee to publish FPWD of features & rationales [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2009-07-07]. ←
14:15:44 <AndyS> LeeF: Editors will continue to work on it.
Lee Feigenbaum: Editors will continue to work on it. ←
14:15:50 <ericP> F&R is valid HTML according to http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/
Eric Prud'hommeaux: F&R is valid HTML according to http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ ←
14:16:32 <AndyS> AndyS: Comments will arrive now.
Andy Seaborne: Comments will arrive now. ←
14:16:40 <AxelPolleres> q+
Axel Polleres: q+ ←
14:16:55 <AndyS> LeeF: We do not need to formally track at the level of CR etc.
Lee Feigenbaum: We do not need to formally track at the level of CR etc. ←
14:16:57 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres ←
14:18:27 <AndyS> Axel: Comments timeframe?
Axel Polleres: Comments timeframe? ←
14:18:29 <AndyS> q+
q+ ←
14:18:45 <kasei> the F&R TOC has a 5.5, but it doesn't actually exist (?)
Greg Williams: the F&R TOC has a 5.5, but it doesn't actually exist (?) ←
14:18:56 <LeeF> invisible ink?
Lee Feigenbaum: invisible ink? ←
14:18:59 <AndyS> ack me
ack me ←
14:19:18 <AndyS> EricP: ... a deadline to hint at timeliness
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... a deadline to hint at timeliness ←
14:19:19 <kasei> 5.3 and 5.4 in invisible ink, certainly, but 5.5 shows up in the TOC :)
Greg Williams: 5.3 and 5.4 in invisible ink, certainly, but 5.5 shows up in the TOC :) ←
14:20:39 <ericP> http://validator.w3.org/checklink?url=http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/#results1 found a broken link to http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/owl.css and three broken fragments: Entailment_status, Subqueries_issues, Basic_federated_querys_status
Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://validator.w3.org/checklink?url=http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/#results1 found a broken link to http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/owl.css and three broken fragments: Entailment_status, Subqueries_issues, Basic_federated_querys_status ←
14:21:00 <AndyS> LeeF: end August? LC is autumn.
Lee Feigenbaum: end August? LC is autumn. ←
14:21:03 <AlexPassant> kasei: remove it from the TOC, is there a way to change the publishing action from 1.114 to 1.115 ?
Greg Williams: remove it from the TOC, is there a way to change the publishing action from 1.114 to 1.115 ? [ Scribe Assist by Alex Passant ] ←
14:21:31 <AxelPolleres> q+ to say why 31 august fine with me.
Axel Polleres: q+ to say why 31 august fine with me. ←
14:21:40 <ericP> KjetilK, AlexPassant, do you know where i should find owl.css?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: KjetilK, AlexPassant, do you know where i should find owl.css? ←
14:21:57 <AlexPassant> ericP: I removed that link - was useless (comes from the OWL template we re-used)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I removed that link - was useless (comes from the OWL template we re-used) [ Scribe Assist by Alex Passant ] ←
14:22:05 <AndyS> The Scribe: Scribe notes the resolution has the wrong version now.
The Scribe: Scribe notes the resolution has the wrong version now. ←
14:23:00 <AndyS> LeeF: Can publish before comment period because it's a WD.
Lee Feigenbaum: Can publish before comment period because it's a WD. ←
14:23:23 <AndyS> EricP: Just need to note that comments may be relative to first version.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Just need to note that comments may be relative to first version. ←
14:23:26 <LeeF> ack AxelPolleres
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AxelPolleres ←
14:23:26 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to say why 31 august fine with me.
Zakim IRC Bot: AxelPolleres, you wanted to say why 31 august fine with me. ←
14:23:52 <AndyS> Axel: Vaction season is fast approaching
Axel Polleres: Vaction season is fast approaching ←
14:24:06 <AndyS> q+
q+ ←
14:24:10 <kasei> AlexPassant: 2.8.5 needs to be dropped, too, I think.
Alex Passant: 2.8.5 needs to be dropped, too, I think. [ Scribe Assist by Greg Williams ] ←
14:24:38 <AndyS> ack me
ack me ←
14:25:00 <KjetilK> +1 to that
Kjetil Kjernsmo: +1 to that ←
14:25:14 <AndyS> LeeF: Suggest saying comments to mailing list, no date.
Lee Feigenbaum: Suggest saying comments to mailing list, no date. ←
14:25:18 <ericP> AlexPassant, KjetilK, where should #Subqueries_issues point?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: AlexPassant, KjetilK, where should #Subqueries_issues point? ←
14:25:43 <AndyS> ... new resolution ...
... new resolution ... ←
14:25:56 <kasei> yes
Greg Williams: yes ←
14:26:08 <kasei> (what ericP said)
Greg Williams: (what ericP said) ←
14:26:34 <AndyS> (formatting/editorial discussion)
(formatting/editorial discussion) ←
14:27:00 <KjetilK> ericP, #Subqueries_discussion probably
Kjetil Kjernsmo: ericP, #Subqueries_discussion probably ←
14:27:56 <AlexPassant> q+ to ask about last fix
Alex Passant: q+ to ask about last fix ←
14:31:06 <kasei> sure, but i have nothing to say new from two weeks ago.
Greg Williams: sure, but i have nothing to say new from two weeks ago. ←
14:31:08 <AxelPolleres> q?
Axel Polleres: q? ←
14:31:21 <AlexPassant> done from my side as well
Alex Passant: done from my side as well ←
14:31:33 <AlexPassant> 1.118
Alex Passant: 1.118 ←
14:31:46 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.118 as FPWD, with comments to be solicited indefinitely to public-rdf-dawg-comments@w3.org
PROPOSED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.118 as FPWD, with comments to be solicited indefinitely to public-rdf-dawg-comments@w3.org ←
14:31:52 <ericP> second
Eric Prud'hommeaux: second ←
14:32:00 <AxelPolleres> +1
Axel Polleres: +1 ←
14:32:11 <bglimm> +1
Birte Glimm: +1 ←
14:32:14 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.118 as FPWD, with comments to be solicited indefinitely to public-rdf-dawg-comments@w3.org
RESOLVED: Publish http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/features/ version 1.118 as FPWD, with comments to be solicited indefinitely to public-rdf-dawg-comments@w3.org ←
14:32:43 <AndyS> Topic: Service descriptions
14:33:10 <AndyS> No disucssion of HTTP OPTIONs last discussion. Kasei presented his ideas.
No disucssion of HTTP OPTIONs last discussion. Kasei presented his ideas. ←
14:33:22 <AndyS> LeeF: Short summary?
Lee Feigenbaum: Short summary? ←
14:33:49 <AndyS> Kasei: coin URIs. One RDFS class for endpoints. Properties for endpoint to details.
Greg Williams: coin URIs. One RDFS class for endpoints. Properties for endpoint to details. ←
14:33:51 <AxelPolleres> (no objections or abstentions on the proposal to publish ... just for the records)
Axel Polleres: (no objections or abstentions on the proposal to publish ... just for the records) ←
14:33:58 <AndyS> .. inc dataset description.
.. inc dataset description. ←
14:34:14 <AndyS> ... work with active void2 developement
... work with active void2 developement ←
14:34:23 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ServiceDescriptions#Strawman_Proposal_for_Service_Description_Vocabulary_and_URIs
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ServiceDescriptions#Strawman_Proposal_for_Service_Description_Vocabulary_and_URIs ←
14:34:47 <AndyS> LeeF: Who is responsible for HTTP OPTIONS proposal?
Lee Feigenbaum: Who is responsible for HTTP OPTIONS proposal? ←
14:35:32 <AndyS> ... Jacek
... Jacek ←
14:35:42 <AxelPolleres> that was jacek, but he told me he is only attending occasionally.
Axel Polleres: that was jacek, but he told me he is only attending occasionally. ←
14:35:49 <AndyS> ... feedback?
... feedback? ←
14:36:05 <swh> +1 to not over specifying
Steve Harris: +1 to not over specifying ←
14:36:28 <AndyS> AndyS: Looks like a good start.
Andy Seaborne: Looks like a good start. ←
14:36:46 <SimonS> +1 Looks like the sweet spots have been hit.
Simon Schenk: +1 Looks like the sweet spots have been hit. ←
14:36:48 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's here? ←
14:36:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, kasei, AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), pgearon, Prateek, EricP, Orri, AxelPolleres, [Garlik], SimonS, LeeF, KjetilK (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, kasei, AlexPassant, bglimm (muted), pgearon, Prateek, EricP, Orri, AxelPolleres, [Garlik], SimonS, LeeF, KjetilK (muted) ←
14:36:50 <Zakim> [Garlik] has swh, LukeWM
Zakim IRC Bot: [Garlik] has swh, LukeWM ←
14:36:50 <AndyS> Steve: Going beyond is getting out of WG scope; less is not useful.
Steve Harris: Going beyond is getting out of WG scope; less is not useful. ←
14:36:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see SimonS, LukeWM, AxelPolleres, Prateek, AndyS_, pgearon, bglimm, Zakim, RRSAgent, LeeF, kasei, AlexPassant, AndyS, swh, karl, john-l, iv_an_ru, KjetilK, trackbot, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see SimonS, LukeWM, AxelPolleres, Prateek, AndyS_, pgearon, bglimm, Zakim, RRSAgent, LeeF, kasei, AlexPassant, AndyS, swh, karl, john-l, iv_an_ru, KjetilK, trackbot, ericP ←
14:37:59 <bglimm> no strong feelings
Birte Glimm: no strong feelings ←
14:37:59 <AndyS> AndyS: Would like to proced with this.
Andy Seaborne: Would like to proced with this. ←
14:38:23 <AndyS> q+ to ask about finding descriptions
q+ to ask about finding descriptions ←
14:38:24 <AxelPolleres> q+ to ask about liaison with "void"
Axel Polleres: q+ to ask about liaison with "void" ←
14:38:31 <AlexPassant> q-
Alex Passant: q- ←
14:39:08 <KjetilK> ack AndyS
Kjetil Kjernsmo: ack AndyS ←
14:39:08 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about finding descriptions
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask about finding descriptions ←
14:40:03 <kasei> agree with AndyS
Greg Williams: agree with AndyS ←
14:41:04 <AxelPolleres> 2 big blocks: (i) service descriptions (what?) (ii) how to find/serve them (how?)
Axel Polleres: 2 big blocks: (i) service descriptions (what?) (ii) how to find/serve them (how?) ←
14:41:24 <AndyS> AndyS: thoughts on how to find descriptions. 3rd party matters a lot but what about services publishing info about themselves?
Andy Seaborne: thoughts on how to find descriptions. 3rd party matters a lot but what about services publishing info about themselves? ←
14:41:59 <kasei> does anyone have thoughts on the "extra" features I list as possibilities in the strawman, especially the first two?
Greg Williams: does anyone have thoughts on the "extra" features I list as possibilities in the strawman, especially the first two? ←
14:42:01 <AndyS> LeeF: Strawman kasei's proposal and start on refinement/discussion.
Lee Feigenbaum: Strawman kasei's proposal and start on refinement/discussion. ←
14:42:05 <swh> q+ to advocate HTTP headers
Steve Harris: q+ to advocate HTTP headers ←
14:42:17 <AxelPolleres> ack me
Axel Polleres: ack me ←
14:42:17 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask about liaison with "void"
Zakim IRC Bot: AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask about liaison with "void" ←
14:42:39 <AndyS> Axel: Liaison with void? Formally?
Axel Polleres: Liaison with void? Formally? ←
14:43:13 <SimonS> +q to comment on kaseis extra features
Simon Schenk: +q to comment on kaseis extra features ←
14:43:13 <kasei> Michael Hausenblas asked me to be the point of contact with them, but as mentioned it's less than formal.
Greg Williams: Michael Hausenblas asked me to be the point of contact with them, but as mentioned it's less than formal. ←
14:43:15 <swh> I disagree that we should liase
Steve Harris: I disagree that we should liase ←
14:43:41 <AndyS> Be good for someone to keep the WG up-to-date.
Be good for someone to keep the WG up-to-date. ←
14:44:00 <ericP> void is in a space which is likely to shift a whole lot. we should consider our job to link to things playing the void role
Eric Prud'hommeaux: void is in a space which is likely to shift a whole lot. we should consider our job to link to things playing the void role ←
14:44:29 <AndyS> swh: Don't sanction one schema. Instead, be neutral - don't refer to outside vocabs.
Steve Harris: Don't sanction one schema. Instead, be neutral - don't refer to outside vocabs. ←
14:44:37 <ericP> i don't mind using them in examples
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i don't mind using them in examples ←
14:44:44 <swh> yes, examples is ok
Steve Harris: yes, examples is ok ←
14:45:05 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Adopt kasei's strawman proposal of what goes into a service description (http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ServiceDescriptions#Strawman_Proposal_for_Service_Description_Vocabulary_and_URIs) and begin to fill in details
PROPOSED: Adopt kasei's strawman proposal of what goes into a service description (http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ServiceDescriptions#Strawman_Proposal_for_Service_Description_Vocabulary_and_URIs) and begin to fill in details ←
14:45:30 <ericP> seocnd
Eric Prud'hommeaux: seocnd ←
14:45:30 <AxelPolleres> +1
Axel Polleres: +1 ←
14:45:33 <SimonS> second
Simon Schenk: second ←
14:45:35 <KjetilK> +1
Kjetil Kjernsmo: +1 ←
14:45:44 <bglimm> +1
Birte Glimm: +1 ←
14:45:44 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Adopt kasei's strawman proposal of what goes into a service description (http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ServiceDescriptions#Strawman_Proposal_for_Service_Description_Vocabulary_and_URIs) and begin to fill in details
RESOLVED: Adopt kasei's strawman proposal of what goes into a service description (http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Feature:ServiceDescriptions#Strawman_Proposal_for_Service_Description_Vocabulary_and_URIs) and begin to fill in details ←
14:45:46 <AndyS> No abstentions or objections
No abstentions or objections ←
14:46:07 <SimonS> q-
Simon Schenk: q- ←
14:46:33 <LeeF> ACTION: Greg to flesh out service description proposal with initial URI suggestions for features, classes, properties, etc.
ACTION: Greg to flesh out service description proposal with initial URI suggestions for features, classes, properties, etc. ←
14:46:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Flesh out service description proposal with initial URI suggestions for features, classes, properties, etc. [on Gregory Williams - due 2009-07-07].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-51 - Flesh out service description proposal with initial URI suggestions for features, classes, properties, etc. [on Gregory Williams - due 2009-07-07]. ←
14:47:01 <swh> ack me
Steve Harris: ack me ←
14:47:01 <Zakim> swh, you wanted to advocate HTTP headers
Zakim IRC Bot: swh, you wanted to advocate HTTP headers ←
14:47:01 <AndyS> Topic: Finding service descriptions
14:47:29 <AndyS> swh: Use HTTP headers pointing to a URI.
Steve Harris: Use HTTP headers pointing to a URI. ←
14:47:52 <AndyS> ... but relative URI needed because sevice does not know what it's external name is
... but relative URI needed because sevice does not know what it's external name is ←
14:48:15 <kasei> it's in the wiki under existing impls., not the strawman.
Greg Williams: it's in the wiki under existing impls., not the strawman. ←
14:48:42 <LeeF> option 1 - use HTTP header in any GET/HEAD request on the endpoint (with or without a query)
Lee Feigenbaum: option 1 - use HTTP header in any GET/HEAD request on the endpoint (with or without a query) ←
14:48:55 <LeeF> option 2 - use HTTP OPTIONS verb
Lee Feigenbaum: option 2 - use HTTP OPTIONS verb ←
14:48:59 <AxelPolleres> Steve says ANY http get reauest should have a pointer to the description?
Axel Polleres: Steve says ANY http get reauest should have a pointer to the description? ←
14:49:00 <AndyS> ... URI is the endpoint with or without ?query
... URI is the endpoint with or without ?query ←
14:49:11 <LeeF> option 3 - place service description RDF in a well-known location on the server
Lee Feigenbaum: option 3 - place service description RDF in a well-known location on the server ←
14:49:19 <LeeF> option 4 - DESCRIBE query against SPARQL endpoint URI
Lee Feigenbaum: option 4 - DESCRIBE query against SPARQL endpoint URI ←
14:49:22 <ericP> q+ to suggest that [[ SELECT ?foo ?bar { <srvc> <x> ?foo ; <y> ?bar } ]] requires no extension to HTTP tools like apache, iis, ...
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to suggest that [[ SELECT ?foo ?bar { <srvc> <x> ?foo ; <y> ?bar } ]] requires no extension to HTTP tools like apache, iis, ... ←
14:49:39 <pgearon> +q
Paul Gearon: +q ←
14:49:54 <LeeF> option 5 - suggest that endpoints SHOULD answer queries about their own URI
Lee Feigenbaum: option 5 - suggest that endpoints SHOULD answer queries about their own URI ←
14:49:57 <AndyS> q+ to talk about endpoint URIs and separation from query engine
q+ to talk about endpoint URIs and separation from query engine ←
14:50:20 <swh> what if they don't know their own URI? or the client doesn't know the real one
Steve Harris: what if they don't know their own URI? or the client doesn't know the real one ←
14:50:26 <LukeWM> q+
Luke Wilson-Mawer: q+ ←
14:50:27 <AndyS> ack EricP
ack EricP ←
14:50:27 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to suggest that [[ SELECT ?foo ?bar { <srvc> <x> ?foo ; <y> ?bar } ]] requires no extension to HTTP tools like apache, iis, ...
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to suggest that [[ SELECT ?foo ?bar { <srvc> <x> ?foo ; <y> ?bar } ]] requires no extension to HTTP tools like apache, iis, ... ←
14:51:00 <AndyS> EricP: Make dft graph have own description in it.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Make dft graph have own description in it. ←
14:51:14 <AndyS> pgearon: Not so sure about thisl
Paul Gearon: Not so sure about thisl ←
14:51:38 <ericP> but the SPARQL query *is* a GET
Eric Prud'hommeaux: but the SPARQL query *is* a GET ←
14:51:39 <AndyS> ... not RESTful. GET on a web resource.
... not RESTful. GET on a web resource. ←
14:51:51 <swh> q+ to say you can use 4 via 1
Steve Harris: q+ to say you can use 4 via 1 ←
14:52:24 <AxelPolleres> ack pgearon
Axel Polleres: ack pgearon ←
14:52:29 <kasei> another option, which I think no one is going to care for, is a new sparql query method
Greg Williams: another option, which I think no one is going to care for, is a new sparql query method ←
14:52:30 <AndyS> ack AndyS
ack AndyS ←
14:52:30 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to talk about endpoint URIs and separation from query engine
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to talk about endpoint URIs and separation from query engine ←
14:52:34 <ericP> HEAD is the same as GET without the response body
Eric Prud'hommeaux: HEAD is the same as GET without the response body ←
14:53:07 <swh> +1 to AndyS on seperation
Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS on seperation ←
14:53:32 <pgearon> ericP, yes, in general, but when used in REST then it is usually used to retrieve metadata
Paul Gearon: ericP, yes, in general, but when used in REST then it is usually used to retrieve metadata ←
14:53:52 <pgearon> HTTP only says that HEAD *should* start the same as GET
Paul Gearon: HTTP only says that HEAD *should* start the same as GET ←
14:54:23 <AndyS> AndyS: issue can be that the protocol and dataset are separate in the service impl
Andy Seaborne: issue can be that the protocol and dataset are separate in the service impl ←
14:56:01 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
14:56:25 <AndyS> ack LukeWM
ack LukeWM ←
14:56:38 <AndyS> LukeWM: option 1 pref
Luke Wilson-Mawer: option 1 pref ←
14:56:47 <AndyS> ... avoids multipel requests
... avoids multipel requests ←
14:56:50 <kasei> q+ to worry about difficulty in using OPTIONS
Greg Williams: q+ to worry about difficulty in using OPTIONS ←
14:57:20 <AndyS> ... creatively, if a service changes frequently, may be an overhead
... creatively, if a service changes frequently, may be an overhead ←
14:57:21 <ericP> i don't see that there are more reqs required if you query the service than if you HEAD the service
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i don't see that there are more reqs required if you query the service than if you HEAD the service ←
14:57:28 <LeeF> ack swh
Lee Feigenbaum: ack swh ←
14:57:28 <Zakim> swh, you wanted to say you can use 4 via 1
Zakim IRC Bot: swh, you wanted to say you can use 4 via 1 ←
14:57:44 <AndyS> swh: Can do opt 4 with canned describe query.
Steve Harris: Can do opt 4 with canned describe query. ←
14:58:00 <ericP> in fact, the contrary, as querying the service gives you the data, where HEADing the service is an extra indirect
Eric Prud'hommeaux: in fact, the contrary, as querying the service gives you the data, where HEADing the service is an extra indirect ←
14:58:04 <AndyS> ... Garlik store would find it hard to do opt 4
... Garlik store would find it hard to do opt 4 ←
14:58:20 <kasei> Zakim, unmute me
Greg Williams: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:58:20 <Zakim> kasei should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei should no longer be muted ←
14:58:39 <AndyS> ... differentiates between opt 1 and 4.
... differentiates between opt 1 and 4. ←
14:59:00 <kasei> having trouble keeping track of which option belongs to which number :\
Greg Williams: having trouble keeping track of which option belongs to which number :\ ←
14:59:19 <LeeF> i'll repeat :)
Lee Feigenbaum: i'll repeat :) ←
14:59:24 <AndyS> ... server has broadbased info
... server has broadbased info ←
14:59:56 <AndyS> (Joseki does not have access to dynamic extensions the query engine may provide)
(Joseki does not have access to dynamic extensions the query engine may provide) ←
15:00:07 <LeeF> option 1 - use HTTP header in any GET/HEAD request on the endpoint (with or without a query)
Lee Feigenbaum: option 1 - use HTTP header in any GET/HEAD request on the endpoint (with or without a query) ←
15:00:07 <LeeF> option 2 - use HTTP OPTIONS verb
Lee Feigenbaum: option 2 - use HTTP OPTIONS verb ←
15:00:07 <LeeF> option 3 - place service description RDF in a well-known location on the server
Lee Feigenbaum: option 3 - place service description RDF in a well-known location on the server ←
15:00:07 <LeeF> option 4 - DESCRIBE query against SPARQL endpoint URI
Lee Feigenbaum: option 4 - DESCRIBE query against SPARQL endpoint URI ←
15:00:07 <LeeF> option 5 - suggest that endpoints SHOULD answer queries about their own URI
Lee Feigenbaum: option 5 - suggest that endpoints SHOULD answer queries about their own URI ←
15:00:23 <LukeWM> ericP, I think it depends on how your application works. If you want to make the query and find out the service description whatever the description, using GET results in fewer requests.
Luke Wilson-Mawer: ericP, I think it depends on how your application works. If you want to make the query and find out the service description whatever the description, using GET results in fewer requests. ←
15:00:36 <AndyS> kasei: OPTIONs has costs / difficulties. client libraries can make it tricky.
Greg Williams: OPTIONs has costs / difficulties. client libraries can make it tricky. ←
15:00:41 <swh> +1 to OPTIONS being difficult
Steve Harris: +1 to OPTIONS being difficult ←
15:00:43 <kasei> q+
Greg Williams: q+ ←
15:00:55 <AndyS> LeeF: will send options to the email list
Lee Feigenbaum: will send options to the email list ←
15:01:02 <AxelPolleres> +1 with concern on OPTIONS option
Axel Polleres: +1 with concern on OPTIONS option ←
15:01:26 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
15:01:30 <LeeF> ack kasei
Lee Feigenbaum: ack kasei ←
15:01:30 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to worry about difficulty in using OPTIONS and to
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, you wanted to worry about difficulty in using OPTIONS and to ←
15:01:42 <AndyS> LeeF: Next week: Negation, update from strawmans on negation update submission.
Lee Feigenbaum: Next week: Negation, update from strawmans on negation update submission. ←
15:01:44 <LeeF> option 6 - add a new SPARQL query method alongside SELECT/CONSTRUCT/ASK/DESCRIBE
Lee Feigenbaum: option 6 - add a new SPARQL query method alongside SELECT/CONSTRUCT/ASK/DESCRIBE ←
15:02:03 <AxelPolleres> isn't that just DESCRIBE <endpoint> ?
Axel Polleres: isn't that just DESCRIBE <endpoint> ? ←
15:02:04 <KjetilK> DESCRIBE ENDPOINT
Kjetil Kjernsmo: DESCRIBE ENDPOINT ←
15:02:04 <ericP> SELFDESCRIBE ?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: SELFDESCRIBE ? ←
15:02:15 <pgearon> I'm fine with option 6, but would still want a REST approach that was equivalent
Paul Gearon: I'm fine with option 6, but would still want a REST approach that was equivalent ←
15:02:23 <AndyS> LeeF: Thx to editors for FPWD.
Lee Feigenbaum: Thx to editors for FPWD. ←
15:02:25 <kasei> pgearon++
Greg Williams: pgearon++ ←
15:02:26 <Zakim> -Orri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Orri ←
15:02:29 <Zakim> -[Garlik]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[Garlik] ←
15:02:30 <Zakim> -KjetilK
Zakim IRC Bot: -KjetilK ←
15:02:30 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
Zakim IRC Bot: -AxelPolleres ←
15:02:32 <AndyS> Thx to Eric in advance
Thx to Eric in advance ←
15:02:32 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
15:02:32 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
15:02:33 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
15:02:33 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:02:35 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:02:38 <Zakim> -Prateek
Zakim IRC Bot: -Prateek ←
15:02:40 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
15:02:42 <Zakim> -SimonS
Zakim IRC Bot: -SimonS ←
15:02:48 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
ADJOURNED ←
15:03:30 <kasei> I think it has a lot of issues :)
Greg Williams: I think it has a lot of issues :) ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2009-07-01 08:16:27 UTC by 'aseaborne', comments: 'Draft minutes for telecon SPARQL-WG 2009-06-30'