12:51:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mw4d
12:51:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/21-mw4d-irc
12:51:15 <steph> zakim, this will be MW4D
12:51:15 <Zakim> ok, steph; I see MWI_MW4D IG()8:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
12:51:35 <steph> Meeting:MW4D IG bi-monthly meeting
12:51:45 <steph> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2009Dec/0008.html
12:51:52 <steph> Chair:steph
12:51:56 <steph> present: steph
12:52:07 <steph> Scribe: steph
12:58:35 <steph> zakim, coe ?
12:58:35 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, steph.
12:58:38 <steph> zakim, code ?
12:58:38 <Zakim> the conference code is 6493 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), steph
12:58:41 <Zakim> MWI_MW4D IG()8:00AM has now started
12:58:48 <Zakim> +steph
13:00:05 <betty> betty has joined #mw4d
13:01:20 <Zakim> +??P1
13:01:50 <steph> betty, is it you on line ?
13:01:53 <Zakim> -??P1
13:02:17 <betty> Yup. It's Betty.
13:02:59 <betty> I need to check the microphone.
13:04:02 <Renjish> Renjish has joined #mw4d
13:04:58 <steph> ok
13:05:58 <ArunKumar> ArunKumar has joined #mw4d
13:06:05 <Zakim> + +999976aaaa
13:06:16 <steph> zakim, aaaa is Arun
13:06:16 <Zakim> +Arun; got it
13:06:26 <Zakim> + +31.31.2799.aabb
13:06:34 <steph> zakim, aabb is renjish
13:06:34 <Zakim> +renjish; got it
13:06:39 <steph> Present+REnjish
13:06:42 <steph> Present+Arun
13:06:47 <steph> Present+Betty
13:07:41 <Zakim> +??P3
13:07:52 <Zakim> +??P4
13:07:55 <steph> zakim, ??P3 is Betty
13:07:55 <Zakim> +Betty; got it
13:08:06 <steph> zakim, ??P4 is Ken*
13:08:06 <Zakim> +Ken*; got it
13:08:11 <steph> PResent+Ken
13:08:43 <steph> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mw4d/2009Dec/0008.html
13:08:58 <steph> Topic: approval  of last meeting minutes
13:09:10 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2009/12/07-mw4d-minutes.html
13:09:30 <steph> approved
13:09:44 <steph> Topic: update on roadmap publication
13:10:25 <kiwanja> kiwanja has joined #mw4d
13:10:56 <steph> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/NOTE-mw4d-roadmap-20091208/
13:11:11 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2008/MW4D/docs/mw4d-nonnorm.html
13:11:21 <steph> republished as dec 8 with pdf version
13:12:06 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2009/12/mw4d-pressrelease
13:13:14 <steph> http://www.w3.org/TR/mw4d-roadmap/
13:13:34 <steph> Topic: discussion on the future of MW4D
13:14:40 <steph> renjish: extension ?
13:14:55 <steph> steph: yes the group has been extended till of february
13:18:53 <steph> steph: current charter til the end of feb and then new charter for another 12 months
13:19:07 <steph> http://www.w3.org/2008/MW4D/wiki/charter2
13:25:28 <ArunKumar> q+
13:25:56 <steph> ken: ok pretty good
13:26:28 <steph> you did a great great job
13:26:36 <steph> ack arunkumar
13:26:55 <steph> arun: 2 things missing
13:27:16 <steph> how do we link with the goals of the Web Foundation
13:27:47 <steph> what is the concrete outcome we are expecting
13:30:50 <nicolas> nicolas has joined #mw4d
13:31:39 <nicolas> hi all, nicolas here, will follow via IRC
13:32:14 <steph> hi nicolas
13:34:50 <steph> renhish: add value to what exists already
13:35:01 <steph> s/renhish/Renjish/
13:35:13 <steph> renjish: what is our goal exactly
13:38:10 <steph> steph: objectives not a repository but a landscaoe analysis
13:38:17 <steph> renjish: should be clarified
13:38:36 <steph> we should mention it somethwere
13:38:43 <steph> avoid discussion that there is nothing new
13:39:02 <steph> differencing information from insight
13:39:27 <steph> ken: we should clarify exactly how we differ from others
13:39:43 <steph> should be clear how we differentiate
13:40:13 <steph> ken: analysis of the landscape and decide how to measure them
13:40:18 <kiwanja> http://www.kiwanja.net/blog/2009/11/our-social-mobile-line-in-the-sand/
13:41:20 <steph> few people answering the poll
13:41:50 <steph> this would open the domain
13:42:02 <steph> not sure you would get cooperation from others
13:42:08 <betty> q+
13:42:22 <steph> q+
13:42:25 <steph> ack betty
13:42:29 <steph> betty: agreed
13:42:35 <betty> How to grow & maintain community of MW4D application developers & other actors. Most of them may not join the MW4D group. How to encourage them to share their knowledge. Ken is very good at it :) But developers in developing countries tend not to write documentation. If they write, they usually write in their mother tongues, which are mostly not well-known la
13:42:41 <kiwanja> (sorry, didn't add myself to the queue!)
13:42:54 <kiwanja> :P
13:43:22 <steph> betty: issue people are not joining
13:43:31 <kiwanja> not everyone joins MW4D group, so we need to bring others in somehow
13:43:58 <kiwanja> not all mobile/development people are good at sharing and explaining their work
13:44:11 <kiwanja> (both via betty)
13:44:45 <kiwanja> i think we need to figure out how me motivate people to engage - what's in it for them? etc
13:45:34 <kiwanja> may also need to engage users, rather than just developers/development 'experts'
13:45:46 <kiwanja> (via steph)
13:46:00 <steph> ken: motivation is key
13:46:26 <steph> not that much group which are successfull
13:46:29 <nicolas> might be also in the way we develop these apps (co-design, co-creation)
13:46:37 <steph> even mobileactive, lots of follower few contributors
13:46:49 <steph> no real successful community
13:47:39 <kiwanja> q+
13:47:43 <kiwanja> q-
13:47:49 <steph> ack steph
13:48:04 <kiwanja> q+
13:48:09 <steph> ack ken
13:48:15 <steph> ack kiwanja
13:49:25 <kiwanja> www.shareideas.org
13:49:31 <steph> ken: very few people are publicly meeting
13:49:58 <nicolas2> nicolas2 has joined #mw4d
13:50:35 <steph> ken: nobody is supporting it
13:50:45 <steph> so it collapses
13:50:56 <steph> only technical community are active
13:51:03 <kiwanja> http://frontlinesms.ning.com/
13:51:42 <steph> this is where your go for support
13:51:46 <steph> or getting info
13:52:05 <steph> ken: mobile community
13:52:16 <steph> how active it is is the point
13:52:49 <steph> building a community around tools better than around mobile
13:54:00 <steph> renjish: a discussion forum might be better
13:54:29 <steph> maybe people woulod be more active
13:54:54 <steph> having more than 10 people to contribute
13:55:10 <steph> is a challenge
13:55:15 <kiwanja> the best forums put out controversial subjects which then encourages people to argue their point. general discussions have little motivation for many people...
13:55:26 <steph> good to have a better involvment of the people on the mailig-list
13:55:27 <kiwanja> q+
13:55:39 <steph> ken: agreed
13:56:11 <kiwanja> q-
13:57:19 <steph> renjish: critical mass needed to create value to the discussion
13:57:38 <steph> ken: look at others how they work
13:58:35 <steph> ken: you have to be provocative
13:59:17 <kiwanja> q-
14:00:43 <steph> renjish: coming to the community with discussions
14:00:54 <steph> not being informative only
14:01:41 <steph> lively debate on the phone
14:01:44 <betty> q+
14:01:56 <betty> Motivation to keep a community alive: provide specific technical supports, be provocative or controversial.
14:02:12 <steph> rrsagent, make log public
14:02:56 <nicolas2> extend also to non-technical topics? business model? scaling up strategy?
14:03:32 <steph> Topic: NExt meeting 
14:03:42 <betty> Jan 4 will be OK.
14:03:42 <Renjish> ok
14:03:44 <steph> January 4
14:03:45 <ArunKumar> Fine with me
14:03:48 <nicolas2> ok
14:04:09 <betty> Merry Xmas, Happy New Year, Happy Holiday :)
14:04:22 <ArunKumar> New Year and Merry Christmas to all !
14:04:22 <Zakim> -steph
14:04:24 <ArunKumar> bye
14:04:25 <Zakim> -Ken*
14:04:27 <Renjish> wishing all a very happy xmas and new year 2010
14:04:28 <Zakim> -Arun
14:04:28 <Renjish> bye
14:04:29 <betty> bye
14:04:33 <steph> Nicolas: feel free to send a mail to the list
14:04:34 <Zakim> -renjish
14:04:42 <steph> with some ideas along the lines you mentionned
14:04:48 <nicolas2> ok
14:04:54 <steph> (buseiness model, scaling up)
14:04:56 <steph> thks
14:05:02 <steph> we could discuss it during next conf
14:05:10 <steph> rrsagent, make minutes
14:05:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/21-mw4d-minutes.html steph
14:05:11 <nicolas2> will do
14:05:21 <Zakim> -Betty
14:05:23 <Zakim> MWI_MW4D IG()8:00AM has ended
14:05:24 <Zakim> Attendees were steph, +999976aaaa, Arun, +31.31.2799.aabb, renjish, Betty, Ken*
14:05:25 <kiwanja> joyeaux noel steph!
14:05:41 <steph> joyeux noel !
14:06:02 <nicolas2> de meme a l'annee prochaine
16:12:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mw4d
16:35:27 <steph> steph has left #mw4d