15:53:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg
15:53:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/11-prov-xg-irc
15:53:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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15:53:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
15:53:14 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:15 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
15:53:15 <trackbot> Date: 11 December 2009
15:53:26 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has now started
15:53:33 <Zakim> +??P1
15:53:42 <smiles> zakim, +??P1 is smiles
15:53:42 <Zakim> sorry, smiles, I do not recognize a party named '+??P1'
15:53:53 <smiles> zakim, ??P1 is smiles
15:53:53 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
15:54:46 <Zakim> +YolandaG
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15:55:49 <smiles> Meeting: prov-xg
15:55:58 <smiles> chair: Yolanda Gil
15:56:16 <smiles> Scribe: Simon Miles
15:56:25 <smiles> ScribeNick: smiles
15:56:40 <Zakim> +ssahoo2
15:57:22 <Irini> Irini has joined #prov-xg
15:57:31 <lkagal> lkagal has joined #prov-xg
15:57:51 <Luc> Luc has joined #prov-xg
15:58:01 <smiles> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Dec/0018.html
15:58:11 <Zakim> + +238059aaaa
15:58:42 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:58:42 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:58:44 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:59:12 <Zakim> +??P6
15:59:28 <Zakim> + +49.302.093.aabb
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15:59:56 <Zakim> +Lalana
16:00:05 <lkagal> zakim, mute me
16:00:05 <Zakim> sorry, lkagal, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:00:11 <Zakim> +Irini
16:00:44 <Zakim> +??P15
16:00:53 <Zakim> + +1.915.603.aacc
16:01:12 <Zakim> +jmccuske
16:01:15 <lkagal> Great Ivan ! In March, I won't even need a fridge to keep it cold ;) 
16:01:22 <ivan> :-)
16:01:32 <olaf> Zakim, aabb is olaf
16:01:32 <Zakim> +olaf; got it
16:01:40 <Paolo> Paolo has joined #prov-xg
16:01:55 <smiles> zakim, save agenda
16:01:55 <Zakim> the agenda has not been entered yet, smiles
16:02:30 <Zakim> +??P19
16:02:45 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov-xg
16:03:09 <Zakim> +??P20
16:03:19 <smiles> Yolanda: main topic today, review curated use cases and plan for applying to rest of use cases
16:03:36 <jcheney> Zakim, ??20 is me
16:03:36 <Zakim> sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named '??20'
16:03:57 <jcheney> Zakim, ??P20 is me
16:03:57 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
16:03:59 <Paolo> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Talk:Use_Case_Template
16:04:14 <smiles> Paolo: been writing up discussion on template on Wiki discussion page, will send link when written up
16:04:18 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aadd
16:04:38 <Aleksey> Aleksey has joined #prov-xg
16:05:07 <smiles> Paolo: Points of curation (1) Provenance is means to end, so use case should describe without ref to provenance
16:05:14 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov-xg
16:05:15 <Deborah> Deborah has joined #prov-xg
16:05:24 <smiles> Paolo: provenance is then referred to as solution in Problems and Limitations section
16:05:41 <Zakim> +??P14
16:05:52 <pgroth> zakim, who is on?
16:05:52 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, pgroth.
16:06:38 <lkagal> zakim, who is here?
16:06:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see smiles (muted), YolandaG, ssahoo2, +238059aaaa, Ivan, ??P6, olaf, Lalana, Irini, ??P15, +1.915.603.aacc, jmccuske, ??P19, jcheney, +1.518.276.aadd, ??P14
16:06:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see Deborah, pgroth, Aleksey, jcheney, Paolo, Paulo, crunnega, Luc, lkagal, Irini, olaf, jmccuske, Zakim, RRSAgent, smiles, YolandaG, ssahoo2, ivan, trackbot
16:06:46 <smiles> Paolo: (2) use case should be general, represent set of instances in different domains (e.g. timeliness does not just apply to traffic data)
16:07:19 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P19 is pgroth
16:07:19 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
16:07:41 <Luc> Zakim, aaaa is Luc
16:07:41 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
16:08:59 <smiles> Paolo: also should not be tied to technology, e.g. removed LinkedData from timeliness scenario, put as solution in Problems and Limitations
16:10:28 <smiles> Paolo: (3) should highlight technical challenges of each use case, categorise challenge as about management, use, content
16:11:11 <smiles> Paolo: (talking about http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Case_Linked_Data_Timeliness)
16:12:58 <smiles> Paolo: (4) separate content, management, usage information
16:13:37 <smiles> Paolo: dicsussion on modifying template, Satya made suggestions to mailing list to remove repititions
16:14:22 <smiles> Paolo: conclusion of discussion: Current Practice is part of Background, but Goal is separate summary from Use Case Scenario
16:15:06 <smiles> Paolo: please put discussions on use case, template pages; Paolo, Satya, Simon will respond
16:15:39 <smiles> Yolanda: 4 guidlines came from group (last telecon)
16:16:27 <smiles> Paolo: also added Provenance Dimensions section to template, to specify Primary dimension and some Secondary dimensions
16:18:51 <smiles> Yolanda: use cases general (not just for one domain): add narrative about technology, e.g. this case applies to LinkedData but would also apply to eScience (refer to other areas not in original case)
16:19:13 <pgroth> +q
16:20:10 <smiles> Paolo: domain gives reason why use case is there, what inspiration
16:20:29 <smiles> Paolo: can generalise, be clear not intrinsic to domain
16:20:40 <smiles> Yolanda: where to put this in template?
16:20:54 <pgroth> unanticipated uses? -> other uses?
16:21:49 <smiles> Paolo: suggests Background, best not to add more sections
16:22:25 <smiles> Paolo: please make use of references (links to Mendeley biblio) in Existing Work section
16:23:39 <smiles> Paul: already seeing repitition in use case types (e.g. collections)
16:23:46 <pgroth> q-
16:24:03 <smiles> Paul: could use Unanticipated Uses section for other applications
16:24:33 <smiles> Yolanda: but in this case is anticipated, and matches existing general use case
16:24:46 <Zakim> -YolandaG
16:25:04 <YolandaG> sorry my phone got disconnected, i'll call right back
16:25:18 <smiles> Paolo: no use case used all sections, Unanticipated Uses not yet used
16:25:34 <Zakim> +YolandaG
16:25:41 <smiles> Paolo: was ambiguous whether Goal was user goal or use of provenance
16:26:20 <smiles> Paolo: we are trying to be clear that Goal is user goal then how technology applies
16:27:17 <Paolo> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Talk:Use_Case_Template
16:27:41 <smiles> Yolanda: see, add discussion at link above (but not complete yet)
16:28:23 <smiles> Yolanda: new use cases added, more intended but not added yet
16:28:34 <Deborah> +1 for me for intending to add use cases but did not get to it.
16:29:16 <smiles> Yolanda: set deadline of end of year to have all use cases following curation guidelines
16:29:32 <Paolo> yes
16:29:47 <jmccuske> I've added two use cases but haven't linked to them yet.
16:29:47 <smiles> Yolanda: owners improve their own use cases, curation team then check
16:30:08 <jmccuske> search in the wiki for "Jim McCusker"/
16:30:30 <Paolo> q+
16:30:45 <Paolo> q?
16:30:50 <smiles> Yolanda: use cases ready for checking Dec 31, curation team look at for telecon on Jan 8
16:31:00 <Paolo> q-
16:31:23 <pgroth> +q
16:31:57 <smiles> Paul: is deadline for submission of use cases, or for also complete curation?
16:32:17 <smiles> Yolanda: deadline (Dec 31) is for submission and self-curation
16:32:26 <Paolo> ok, deadline is fine if we are talking about self-curation
16:32:29 <crunnega> +q
16:32:35 <pgroth> q-
16:32:45 <Zakim> +??P28
16:32:46 <ssahoo2> I agree with Yolanda
16:32:49 <smiles> Yolanda: when you believe you have completed your use case, send to one of the three curators
16:33:27 <Paolo> q?
16:33:35 <YolandaG> ack crunnega
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16:34:11 <Paolo> q+
16:34:49 <smiles> Yolanda: in Jan, need to move on to how to technically solve use cases
16:35:24 <ssahoo2> I think thats a good plan Paolo
16:35:34 <smiles> me too
16:35:46 <Paolo> q-
16:35:58 <smiles> Paolo: instead, send complete use case to all 3 curators, so one available can take it up
16:36:30 <smiles> Yolanda: please declare if you are intending to add a use case
16:37:26 <smiles> Yolanda: I want to add a case where attribution of info is important (someone said it, a journal recorded it...)
16:37:53 <smiles> Yolanda: I want to add a case where adding axiom to document, what sources were consulted
16:38:25 <smiles> Yolanda: I want to add a case on the provenance of a decision, decide sources, why whichever trusted
16:39:04 <Paolo> all these use cases are extremely important IMO
16:39:38 <smiles> Deborah: I will add a case on text analytics: text extractors generate sentences, from wide variety of sources
16:40:03 <Paulo> q+
16:40:11 <smiles> Deborah: I may add a case on improving decision processes in producing end conclusions
16:41:12 <Deborah> yolanda will send me a pointer from biology for my text analytics use case.  my prior work will cite some intelligence community work
16:41:38 <smiles> Irini: working on implicit information in RDF, provenance of SPARQL query
16:42:44 <smiles> Yolanda: if existing use case applicable to you, contact owner to apply your technology to it
16:42:53 <lkagal> +1 for private data use case
16:43:07 <smiles> Luc: added two use cases: use of private data, prov of decision making (drafts, now to be self-curated)
16:43:52 <smiles> Paulo: ideas on human level provenance, will connect to Yolanda's use case
16:44:04 <jmccuske> +1 for private data use case, including de-identifying/anonymizing portions of a provenance graph.
16:44:17 <Paolo> not me...
16:44:18 <Deborah> i may join the provenance of decision making as well
16:45:00 <YolandaG> YolandaG has joined #prov-xg
16:45:02 <smiles> Paolo: will go over use cases added a while ago to self-curate
16:45:37 <crunnega> microphone issues
16:46:09 <YolandaG> Christine: you can make any comments on IRC directly, sorry about the microphone
16:46:40 <smiles> James C: had workshop in April on provenance use cases, will try to write up some, particularly evidence in public policy, engineering/design
16:47:31 <crunnega> Thank you. I would like to review and add to current use cases and then see if I can identify any missing use cases mindful of the deadline.
16:47:43 <Deborah> yes - I am happy to collaborate on that.
16:47:44 <smiles> Yolanda: discussed with Deborah about why KB/reasoner would produce a given answer, could discuss with James to abstract issues (also maybe relevant to Irini)
16:49:20 <smiles> Jim Mc: added two use cases on closures from multiple prov graphs, relation between two experiment graphs to determine whether one reproducing other: need to be looked over
16:50:11 <smiles> Yolanda: mark use case as Draft even if not finished, for others to see
16:50:58 <smiles> Yolanda: second case above may be same as Simon's Result Differences case, possibly merge
16:51:11 <lkagal> Sorry, can't unmute am in a noisy environment.
16:52:06 <smiles> Olaf: not planning to add any new use cases, but will adjust existing
16:52:46 <smiles> Paul: added two cultural heritage cases, will add Creative Commons case and one on scientific publishing
16:53:14 <smiles> Yolanda: have been in contact with CC people, so send to her
16:53:18 <smiles> zakim, unmute me
16:53:18 <Zakim> smiles should no longer be muted
16:54:09 <lkagal> I'd like to contribute to the private data use case (maybe generalize to any data) and the linked data use cases. 
16:54:23 <smiles> zakim, mute me
16:54:23 <Zakim> smiles should now be muted
16:54:42 <smiles> Simon: will look at where dimensions not covered, then conttribute cases if appropriate
16:54:58 <smiles> Yolanda: will also check dimensions at end of month, discuss on mailing list
16:55:11 <smiles> Satya: not intending to add more use cases
16:56:47 <Paulo> q+
16:56:51 <smiles> Yolanda: asks Satya to write up or ask originators to write up use case on prov of scientific hypotheses from
16:56:54 <Aleksey> I would like to contribute to the data quality-aware cases (Information Quality Assessment for Linked Data)
16:57:05 <smiles> q?
16:57:44 <smiles> Andreas: intend case on licensing, copyrighting, contracting
16:57:50 <smiles> ack Paulo
16:58:10 <lkagal> q+ does the result differences use case include provenance of reasoning results (automated inferences) or sparql federation queries. 
16:59:08 <smiles> Paulo: working on combining proofs, may come up with inconsistent graphs because of different justifications of axioms: please contact him if interested in conflicts in graphs, will coordinate writing case with Deborah
16:59:14 <smiles> q?
17:00:01 <smiles> Yolanda: will send suggested F2F meeting dates to list
17:00:21 <smiles> Yolanda: telecon next week, but not next two coz holidays
17:01:01 <smiles> Irini: will scribe next meeting
17:01:14 <Zakim> -pgroth
17:01:15 <Zakim> -??P28
17:01:15 <Zakim> -ssahoo2
17:01:16 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:01:16 <Zakim> -YolandaG
17:01:16 <Zakim> -Irini
17:01:17 <afreitas> afreitas has left #prov-xg
17:01:17 <Zakim> -jcheney
17:01:18 <Zakim> -??P15
17:01:20 <ssahoo2> quit
17:01:20 <Zakim> -olaf
17:01:22 <Zakim> -jmccuske
17:01:23 <jmccuske> jmccuske has left #prov-xg
17:01:24 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aadd
17:01:27 <Zakim> -Lalana
17:01:28 <Zakim> -Luc
17:01:34 <smiles> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:01:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/11-prov-xg-minutes.html smiles
17:01:40 <Zakim> - +1.915.603.aacc
17:01:44 <Zakim> -??P14
17:01:48 <Zakim> -smiles
17:02:32 <smiles> trackbot, end telcon
17:02:32 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:02:33 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been smiles, YolandaG, ssahoo2, +238059aaaa, Ivan, +49.302.093.aabb, Lalana, Irini, +1.915.603.aacc, jmccuske, olaf, jcheney, +1.518.276.aadd,
17:02:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:02:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/11-prov-xg-minutes.html trackbot
17:02:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:02:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:02:35 <Zakim> ... pgroth, Luc