19:47:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ssn
19:47:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-ssn-irc
19:47:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:47:28 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ssn
19:47:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7769
19:47:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SSN()3:00PM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
19:47:31 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Sensor Network Incubator Group Teleconference
19:47:31 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2009
19:47:43 <Holger> Chair: Holger
19:47:54 <Holger> Regrets: Luis, Simon
19:48:03 <Holger> agenda+ Roll call
19:48:12 <Holger> agenda+ Ontology Development Process
19:48:21 <Holger> agenda+ Use cases
19:48:29 <Holger> agenda+ Semantic Markup
19:48:38 <Holger> agenda+ AOB
19:50:02 <Danh_DERI> Danh_DERI has joined #ssn
19:51:25 <Zakim> INC_SSN()3:00PM has now started
19:51:33 <Zakim> + +61.3.623.2.aaaa
19:51:53 <Holger> zakim, +61.3.623.2.aaaa is me
19:51:53 <Zakim> +Holger; got it
19:52:47 <Payam> Payam has joined #SSN
19:52:51 <Zakim> + +1.206.662.aabb
19:53:00 <kelsey> kelsey has joined #ssn
19:55:02 <Zakim> +??P1
19:55:28 <Danh_DERI> i've just join the call
19:55:44 <Holger> Hi Danh!
19:55:52 <Danh_DERI> Hi Holger
19:57:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:58:13 <Payam> Zakim IPCaller is me
19:58:25 <laurent_oz> laurent_oz has joined #ssn
19:58:32 <Payam> Zakim, IPcaller is me
19:58:32 <Zakim> +Payam; got it
19:59:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:59:23 <laurent_oz> Just joined
19:59:36 <Holger> Hi Laurent
19:59:52 <kerry> kerry has joined #ssn
19:59:57 <ocorcho> ocorcho has joined #ssn
20:00:26 <Arthur> Arthur has joined #ssn
20:01:11 <Zakim> +??P8
20:01:26 <Arthur> zakim, ??P8 is me
20:01:26 <Zakim> +Arthur; got it
20:01:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
20:01:32 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:01:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, +1.206.662.aabb, ??P1, Payam, [IPcaller], Arthur, [IPcaller.a]
20:01:41 <laurent_oz> Regrets from Luis via ssn-xg mailing list
20:01:51 <ocorcho> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
20:01:51 <Zakim> +ocorcho; got it
20:02:02 <ocorcho> zakim, mute me
20:02:02 <Zakim> ocorcho should now be muted
20:02:24 <Zakim> + +1.267.481.aacc
20:03:05 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
20:03:15 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P1 (19%), Arthur (29%), +1.267.481.aacc (70%)
20:03:46 <laurent_oz> Holger, I can scribe
20:04:14 <Holger> ScribeNick: laurent_oz
20:04:30 <Zakim> +??P11
20:04:34 <krp> krp has joined #ssn
20:04:52 <michael> michael has joined #ssn
20:06:10 <Holger> agenda?
20:06:16 <cory> cory has joined #ssn
20:06:21 <Zakim> + +0775169aadd
20:06:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
20:06:45 <michael> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
20:06:45 <Zakim> +michael; got it
20:06:56 <krp> zakim, +0775169aadd is me
20:06:56 <Zakim> +krp; got it
20:07:44 <laurent_oz> Luis to be here for the first 10 minutes
20:07:44 <ocorcho> zakim, unmute me
20:07:44 <Zakim> ocorcho should no longer be muted
20:07:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
20:08:05 <ocorcho> zakim, unmute me
20:08:05 <Zakim> ocorcho was not muted, ocorcho
20:08:10 <ocorcho> zakim, mute me
20:08:10 <Zakim> ocorcho should now be muted
20:09:00 <Manfred_DERI> Manfred_DERI has joined #ssn
20:09:14 <laurent_oz> Holger has set up the tracker 
20:10:16 <laurent_oz> Holger: Process is to file change request via tracker (add link)
20:10:29 <ocorcho> zakim, unmute me
20:10:29 <Zakim> ocorcho should no longer be muted
20:10:31 <ocorcho> +q
20:10:49 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
20:10:49 <laurent_oz> Holger: we need to precise which ontology we start from
20:10:50 <Danh_DERI> +q
20:11:00 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P1 (48%)
20:11:02 <Holger> ack ocorcho
20:11:47 <laurent_oz> Oscar: Raul has added an extension but we should start with the one from Michael and process the changes from Raul through the tracker
20:12:15 <ocorcho> zakim, mute me
20:12:15 <Holger> ack Danh_DERI
20:12:17 <Zakim> ocorcho should now be muted
20:12:31 <Arthur> +q
20:12:48 <laurent_oz> Holger: decision to start with the one from Michael
20:13:05 <laurent_oz> Arthur: it is possible to set up WebProtege 
20:13:29 <Danh_DERI> +q
20:13:37 <Holger> ack Arthur
20:13:41 <laurent_oz> Holger: webProtege is the preferred solution
20:14:05 <Zakim> +ssahoo2
20:14:25 <laurent_oz> Danh: wants more precision on the process: how do we start - do we make the changes in the ontology first or file request for changes first, 
20:14:26 <michael> +q
20:15:08 <laurent_oz> Luis: possible to start the process from a version hosted on the MMI repository
20:15:32 <ocorcho> +1
20:15:35 <Zakim> - +1.267.481.aacc
20:15:49 <Holger> ack Danh_DERI
20:15:50 <laurent_oz> Luis: process is to publish issues, discuss then and then use the f2f meeting to approve them / approve the changes
20:16:47 <laurent_oz> Danh: use the tracker to add new concepts or suggestion for changes then it is discussed then the originator of the changes make the changes
20:17:16 <Danh_DERI> +q
20:17:32 <laurent_oz> Michael: The process is more adapted to the cases where the ontology is hosted in MMI repository but we may not take advantage of the features of WebProtege
20:18:07 <laurent_oz> Michael: WebProtege may enable richer collaboration
20:18:13 <ocorcho> zakim, unmute me
20:18:13 <Zakim> ocorcho should no longer be muted
20:18:17 <Danh_DERI> -q
20:18:25 <Holger> ack michael
20:18:35 <laurent_oz> Oscar asked to comment if it is possible to work with it live?
20:19:22 <laurent_oz> Oscar: It is possible to add annotations. Thinks using the MMI is sufficient to what we do. At some stage we can upgrade the process to WebProtege.
20:19:28 <laurent_oz> +q
20:19:30 <ocorcho> zakim, mute me
20:19:30 <Zakim> ocorcho should now be muted
20:19:58 <ocorcho> yes
20:20:19 <laurent_oz> Arthur: We plan to have a specific machine to support the SSN-XG tools. Will appreciate any advice from Oscar on how to install it
20:20:34 <Holger> ack laurent_oz
20:21:08 <laurent_oz> Laurent: Q. Are we all using the same tools or not? 
20:21:53 <laurent_oz> Holger: The free and the commercial edition of TopBraid changes the file structure. 
20:21:54 <michael> +q
20:22:03 <Holger> ack michael
20:22:47 <laurent_oz> Michael: We will have to accept that the versioning (the diff) won't necessary work.
20:23:52 <krp> +1
20:23:53 <Manfred_DERI> ok
20:23:54 <Danh_DERI> +
20:23:56 <cory> +1
20:23:56 <michael> +1
20:24:01 <ocorcho> +1
20:24:02 <kerry> +1
20:24:03 <kelsey> +1
20:24:04 <Payam> +1
20:24:07 <Holger> +1
20:24:14 <laurent_oz> Holger: Let's do what we say. Start with Michael's version sent last week. Everyone to file changes through the tracker. Michael to file the changes. Does everyone agree?
20:24:28 <Holger> agenda?
20:24:49 <laurent_oz> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Use_cases
20:24:54 <ocorcho> zakim, unmute me
20:24:54 <Zakim> ocorcho should no longer be muted
20:25:16 <ocorcho> zakim, mute me
20:25:16 <Zakim> ocorcho should now be muted
20:25:19 <laurent_oz> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Use_Case_Process_Provenance
20:25:28 <laurent_oz> Oscar not yet started 
20:29:35 <laurent_oz> Laurent: Use cases contains the literature structured according to the group activity : ontology and markup
20:30:10 <laurent_oz> Tables differentiate between Sensor, Data and Process sub-uses cases (used separately or together)
20:30:44 <laurent_oz> Cory: for the markup we initially focus on the service annotations
20:30:51 <Zakim> -krp
20:33:08 <Zakim> +krp
20:33:17 <laurent_oz> Laurent (continued): Literature review list paper accordding to three main categories
20:35:05 <Manfred_DERI> +q
20:35:09 <laurent_oz> Laurent: Describes Use cases provenance first pass on the use cases description 
20:35:22 <Holger> ack Manfred_DERI
20:35:39 <laurent_oz> Laurent: difference between provenance and composition
20:36:38 <Manfred_DERI> -q
20:36:39 <laurent_oz> Manfred: in provenance (db-world) there is a different use of provenance (e.g. authenticity) Do not see
20:38:27 <laurent_oz> Laurent: use case focuses on scientific diagnose
20:39:24 <laurent_oz> Raul: the provenance information may also help the user to select the information, choose the sensor
20:39:26 <Manfred_DERI> http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/1250000/1247646/p1171-buneman.pdf?key1=1247646&key2=7438030621&coll=GUIDE&dl=GUIDE&CFID=65822909&CFTOKEN=75280055
20:39:35 <Manfred_DERI> Peter Buneman
20:39:36 <Zakim> -michael
20:40:05 <laurent_oz> Peter Buneman one of the authority for provenance in databases. 
20:41:10 <laurent_oz> Manfred: we should check wether the provenance defs used elsewehere are applicable (and sufficient) for the SSN-XG
20:41:20 <krp> Potentially also: http://openprovenance.org/
20:41:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
20:41:33 <michael> michael has joined #ssn
20:41:46 <Holger> zakim, who's making noise?
20:41:57 <Zakim> Holger, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Holger (2%), [IPcaller.aa] (14%)
20:42:40 <Payam> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Semantic_Mark_up
20:42:41 <Holger> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/Semantic_Markup_Draft_Deliverable
20:43:48 <laurent_oz> http://ksg.meraka.org.za/~aow2009/Lefort_AOW2009.ppt 
20:47:00 <laurent_oz> Laurent: changes in the semantic markup pages (review of papers and their use of XLink) 
20:47:17 <laurent_oz> See also the slides for the rest of the discussion
20:48:00 <Payam> +q
20:48:00 <laurent_oz> Cory: identify where and why annotate first and then how
20:48:42 <Holger> ack Payam
20:49:11 <laurent_oz> Payam: 3 different tasks: work on the ontology (content and present it) and last stage is of we use it ("map" it)
20:50:02 <Danh_DERI> +q
20:50:14 <laurent_oz> Cory: Sem Markup to be driven by the use cases. Plan to reuse the same use cases: sensor discovery, data discovery.
20:50:34 <Holger> ack Danh_DERI
20:50:41 <laurent_oz> Cory: We also look first at how to bring the data in RDF
20:51:32 <laurent_oz> Danh: Focus on the SWE standards - what if the data is externalised in a different approach (e.g. a REST service)? 
20:52:01 <kerry> +q
20:52:03 <Payam> +q
20:52:43 <laurent_oz> Danh: There are approaches which don't use OGC specs: e.g. SensorPedia ...
20:54:57 <laurent_oz> Cory: We will not limit the work to SWE/SOS services. Group to suggest other example of services which should be considered
20:55:56 <laurent_oz> Danh: the methodology should be more general and supports other format like RSS (e.g. Yahoo Weather). Will the annotation methodology work on these cases?
20:56:03 <krp> +q
20:56:43 <laurent_oz> Cory: this is a question at the technical level: we look at what works on top of services using XML.
20:57:42 <laurent_oz> Danh: risk that the user will think their use cases are not covered by the ontology and the markup approach 
20:58:17 <laurent_oz> Danh: need to add that we cover other requirements
20:58:35 <laurent_oz> Laurent: my paper covers any type of REST services
21:00:13 <krp> Yes, I agree with Cory. Most of the annotation techs can deal with most (all?) flavours of XML, and while the best practice will be general obviously the specific annotations will be specific - and we don't want to spread too thin.
21:00:50 <Zakim> -ocorcho
21:00:53 <Holger> ack kerry
21:01:19 <laurent_oz> Kerry: the charter defines the work we do and it's the SWE context first.
21:01:29 <Holger> ack Payam
21:02:12 <Holger> ack krp
21:02:58 <laurent_oz> Kevin: it may not necessary to document multiple XML flavors 
21:03:30 <Zakim> -ssahoo2
21:03:31 <Manfred_DERI> bye
21:03:31 <Zakim> -Payam
21:03:32 <Zakim> - +1.206.662.aabb
21:03:35 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
21:03:35 <Danh_DERI> bye
21:03:36 <Zakim> -Arthur
21:03:40 <Zakim> -??P11
21:03:42 <Zakim> -krp
21:03:43 <Arthur> Arthur has left #ssn
21:03:48 <kerry> ye
21:04:01 <Holger> zakim, bye
21:04:01 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Holger, +1.206.662.aabb, Payam, [IPcaller], Arthur, ocorcho, +1.267.481.aacc, michael, krp, ssahoo2
21:04:01 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ssn
21:04:18 <Holger> rrsagent, make log public
21:04:28 <Holger> rrsagent, draft minutes 
21:04:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-ssn-minutes.html Holger
21:04:56 <Holger> rrsagent, bye 
21:04:56 <RRSAgent> I see no action items