IRC log of mediaann on 2009-12-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:55:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
11:55:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-irc
11:55:18 [wbailer]
zakim, this will be mawg
11:55:18 [Zakim]
ok, wbailer; I see IA_MAWG()7:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
11:55:31 [wbailer]
meeting: MAWG
11:56:16 [tmichel]
tmichel has joined #mediaann
12:00:18 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()7:00AM has now started
12:00:25 [Zakim]
+ +0436991876aaaa
12:00:50 [joakim]
joakim has joined #mediaann
12:00:55 [wbailer]
zakim, aaaa is wbailer
12:00:55 [Zakim]
+wbailer; got it
12:01:10 [Zakim]
+joakim
12:02:08 [Zakim]
+ +95385aabb
12:02:38 [tmichel]
Hello everyone ...
12:03:21 [joakim]
David are you on the phoen bridge aswell?
12:03:38 [pchampin]
pchampin has joined #mediaann
12:04:33 [wbailer]
regrets: florian, raphael, chris, tobias, veronique
12:05:16 [wbailer]
regrets+ felix
12:05:47 [Zakim]
+ +47.24.4.aacc
12:05:57 [pchampin]
zakim, aacc is me
12:05:57 [Zakim]
+pchampin; got it
12:06:03 [pchampin]
hi all, sorry I'm late
12:06:08 [pchampin]
zakim, mute me
12:06:08 [Zakim]
pchampin should now be muted
12:06:51 [joakim]
scriber?
12:06:54 [pchampin]
ok
12:06:56 [pchampin]
pchampi
12:07:04 [pchampin]
scribe: pchampin
12:07:07 [pchampin]
yes
12:07:13 [pchampin]
zakim, unmute me
12:07:13 [Zakim]
pchampin should no longer be muted
12:07:27 [joakim]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/admin.html
12:07:27 [pchampin]
topic: minutes approval
12:07:36 [joakim]
http://www.w3.org/2009/12/01-mediaann-minutes.html
12:08:12 [joakim]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open
12:08:14 [pchampin]
Joakim: next week will be the last telecon before Xmas holiday
12:08:32 [pchampin]
minutes approved
12:08:50 [pchampin]
topic: open action items
12:10:14 [pchampin]
ACTION-154?
12:10:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-154 -- Joakim Söderberg to ask dave about the relationship of digital data exchange with Apple stuff, ID3, iTunesXML, etc -- due 2009-09-15 -- OPEN
12:10:14 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/154
12:10:31 [pchampin]
Joakim: I had a discussion with Dave
12:10:40 [pchampin]
close ACTION-154
12:10:40 [trackbot]
ACTION-154 Ask dave about the relationship of digital data exchange with Apple stuff, ID3, iTunesXML, etc closed
12:11:52 [pchampin]
ACTION-169?
12:11:52 [trackbot]
ACTION-169 -- Véronique Malaisé to veronique to update text on in scope formats in ontology doc (formats not in mapping table) -- due 2009-11-12 -- OPEN
12:11:52 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/169
12:11:58 [pchampin]
close ACTION-169
12:11:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-169 veronique to update text on in scope formats in ontology doc (formats not in mapping table) closed
12:12:27 [pchampin]
ACTION-172?
12:12:27 [trackbot]
ACTION-172 -- Véronique Malaisé to rewrite intro to be clear on what we mean by ontology -- due 2009-11-12 -- OPEN
12:12:27 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/172
12:12:42 [pchampin]
under review by the co-editors
12:12:42 [pchampin]
close ACTION-172
12:12:43 [trackbot]
ACTION-172 rewrite intro to be clear on what we mean by ontology closed
12:12:55 [pchampin]
close ACTION-174
12:12:55 [trackbot]
ACTION-174 check if ontology document says that type of mapping specifies if there is a loss in semantics closed
12:13:27 [pchampin]
ACTION-176?
12:13:27 [trackbot]
ACTION-176 -- Joakim Söderberg to contact browser implementors to review the API document -- due 2009-11-13 -- OPEN
12:13:27 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/176
12:13:44 [pchampin]
Joakim: I sent a mail to Dave. We also got a reply from Opera.
12:13:47 [pchampin]
close ACTION-176
12:13:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-176 Contact browser implementors to review the API document closed
12:14:18 [pchampin]
ACTION-175?
12:14:18 [trackbot]
ACTION-175 -- Felix Sasaki to define data type mappings as soon as the data types for the formats are defined -- due 2009-11-12 -- OPEN
12:14:18 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/175
12:14:24 [pchampin]
text has been included
12:14:39 [pchampin]
close ACTION-185
12:14:39 [trackbot]
ACTION-185 rigo@w3.org to ask pling wg to provide text on including policy information closed
12:15:14 [pchampin]
ACTION-189?
12:15:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-189 -- Tobias Bürger to work on the the subproperties (http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Sub_Types) -- due 2009-11-13 -- OPEN
12:15:14 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/189
12:15:22 [pchampin]
Joakim: is this still relevant?
12:15:27 [pchampin]
Werner: it has been postponed
12:15:35 [pchampin]
... we can keep it as a reminder
12:15:49 [pchampin]
Joakim: can we change the description of this action?
12:16:10 [pchampin]
Werner: the decision is to handle subproperties in a generic way
12:16:22 [pchampin]
... and may be in the future define specific subproperties.
12:18:44 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has joined #mediaann
12:19:12 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
12:19:44 [pchampin]
Updated ACTION-189 to mark it "postponed"
12:22:57 [tmichel]
the Requirements document seems to be here http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-req/mediaont-req.html
12:23:16 [tmichel]
at least it is the one linked from the WG home page
12:25:14 [pchampin]
ACTION-192?
12:25:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-192 -- Joakim Söderberg to and everyone to review the Requirements document before 1/12 -- due 2009-12-01 -- OPEN
12:25:14 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/192
12:25:27 [pchampin]
Wonsuk: we got some feedback on the document
12:26:02 [pchampin]
... we will issue a new version next tuesday
12:26:56 [pchampin]
close ACTION-192
12:26:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-192 And everyone to review the Requirements document before 1/12 closed
12:27:04 [florian]
florian has joined #mediaann
12:29:20 [pchampin]
Joakim: I remind everyone to take time to update their table
12:29:37 [pchampin]
Wonsuk: I tried to update the table with Amaya, but I failed.
12:29:57 [pchampin]
... can you remind the details to gain access to the file?
12:30:17 [pchampin]
Thierry: get in touch with me, I'll give you the details.
12:30:41 [joakim]
Wonsuk: the trick is to get the link correct:
12:30:47 [joakim]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/ID3.html
12:30:54 [joakim]
becomes
12:30:56 [joakim]
http://jigedit.w3.org/jsderber/WWW/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/ID3.html
12:31:15 [pchampin]
Thierry: the WG homepage has 2 sections
12:31:24 [pchampin]
... documents in WG space, and drafts in developments
12:31:32 [pchampin]
... I will remove the mapping tables from the 2nd section
12:31:46 [pchampin]
... because we are now working on the version from the WG space.
12:32:24 [joakim]
This is the current version.
12:32:25 [joakim]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/mapping_table.html
12:33:11 [pchampin]
Werner: the version from the draft was exported from XLS
12:33:41 [pchampin]
Thierry: we have decided to stop working on the XLS, and edit the XHTML direcectly
12:34:23 [pchampin]
... in the WG space;
12:34:43 [pchampin]
... so I will remove the one in "drats", which is frozen and outdated.
12:35:30 [pchampin]
... (both HTML and XLS files)
12:35:44 [pchampin]
... I will check that we do not lose any information in the process.
12:37:50 [pchampin]
... I will also remove the Ontology document from the WG space,
12:37:56 [pchampin]
... since we do not work on this one.
12:38:11 [pchampin]
... Hence each document will be present at exactly one place
12:38:16 [pchampin]
... which will avoid confusion.
12:39:00 [pchampin]
action tmichel to send a mail to the group explaining the different document spaces and why some documents are to be removed
12:39:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-200 - Send a mail to the group explaining the different document spaces and why some documents are to be removed [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-12-15].
12:40:00 [pchampin]
close ACTION-199
12:40:01 [trackbot]
ACTION-199 Daniel to check availability of phone conference bridge and send info to joakim closed
12:40:42 [pchampin]
topic: UC & Req document update
12:41:33 [joakim]
zakim, who is noisy?
12:41:43 [Zakim]
joakim, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +95385aabb (90%), joakim (30%)
12:41:49 [pchampin]
s/UC & Req/Ontology/
12:42:43 [pchampin]
Wonsuj summarizes the current state of the document.
12:43:30 [wonsuk]
s/Wonsuj/Wonsuk
12:43:58 [pchampin]
topic: Test suites
12:44:22 [pchampin]
Joakim: the test suite should be ready by the time we have the specification issued
12:44:46 [pchampin]
... Does Thierry has any recommendation about how to proceed?
12:45:02 [pchampin]
Thierry: experience from other WGs (SMIL):
12:45:08 [pchampin]
... identify functionalities
12:45:15 [pchampin]
... provide test for each functionality
12:45:32 [pchampin]
... assign two people to each functionality
12:45:44 [pchampin]
... so that each can verify that the test is correct
12:46:19 [pchampin]
... Another solution :
12:46:37 [pchampin]
... some company have test suites for testing their own implementations
12:46:56 [pchampin]
... Quite different from the W3C approach, where each test is expected to be quite atomic.
12:47:13 [pchampin]
The goal is to make sure that two implementors will interpret the functionality the same way
12:47:30 [pchampin]
... and implement it in an interoperable way.
12:47:48 [pchampin]
... So there should be 1 test <-> 1 functionality
12:48:26 [pchampin]
Joakim: will our test be made complicated by the fact that we envision both client-side and server-side implementations?
12:49:02 [pchampin]
Werner: server-side implementations could be hidden by a facade javascript library
12:49:15 [pchampin]
... so the same test could be applied to client-side and server-side implementations.
12:49:20 [pchampin]
pchampin: +1 to Werner
12:49:38 [pchampin]
Thierry: we don't need an implementation that passes all the tests.
12:50:00 [pchampin]
.. one product can pass only 1/2 tests, another product only 1/3
12:50:18 [pchampin]
... The requirement is that *each* test has 2 implementations that pass it.
12:50:37 [pchampin]
... Or we can not become CR.
12:51:26 [pchampin]
But there is no requirement for an implementation passing 100% tests.
12:51:47 [pchampin]
pchampin: that is an important distinction, indeed.
12:52:07 [pchampin]
Thierry: once we agree that the specification is stable enough,
12:52:21 [pchampin]
... then we should list functionalities and assign people to test cases.
12:52:38 [pchampin]
... We should start to do this in last call.
12:53:09 [pchampin]
... But this is a very busy phase : lot of comments to be processed.
12:53:42 [pchampin]
Joakim: hopefuly, the spec will be quite stable by the next F2F.
12:54:31 [pchampin]
Thierry: the question of the test suites should be raised at the F2F.
12:55:00 [pchampin]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:55:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html pchampin
12:55:13 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
12:55:14 [Zakim]
-joakim
12:55:14 [Zakim]
-wbailer
12:55:23 [Zakim]
- +95385aabb
12:55:31 [Zakim]
-pchampin
12:55:32 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()7:00AM has ended
12:55:33 [Zakim]
Attendees were +0436991876aaaa, wbailer, joakim, +95385aabb, +47.24.4.aacc, pchampin, [IPcaller]
12:55:53 [wonsuk]
wonsuk has left #mediaann
12:55:56 [pchampin]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:55:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html pchampin
12:57:04 [joakim]
agree, can't access it either!
12:57:42 [pchampin]
:-(
12:58:02 [joakim]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:58:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html joakim
12:58:45 [pchampin]
seems to last...
12:58:54 [pchampin]
thierry, are you still there?
12:59:19 [pchampin]
rrsagent, make minutes
12:59:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html pchampin
12:59:27 [joakim]
rrsagent, make log public
12:59:35 [joakim]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:59:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html joakim
13:00:04 [pchampin]
there's a lot of black magic around W3C bots... :-/
13:00:09 [joakim]
it works!
13:00:15 [pchampin]
yep
13:00:20 [joakim]
take care!
14:55:40 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediaann
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dsinger has joined #mediaann