11:55:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
11:55:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-irc
11:55:18 <wbailer> zakim, this will be mawg
11:55:18 <Zakim> ok, wbailer; I see IA_MAWG()7:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
11:55:31 <wbailer> meeting: MAWG
11:56:16 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #mediaann
12:00:18 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()7:00AM has now started
12:00:25 <Zakim> + +0436991876aaaa
12:00:50 <joakim> joakim has joined #mediaann
12:00:55 <wbailer> zakim, aaaa is wbailer
12:00:55 <Zakim> +wbailer; got it
12:01:10 <Zakim> +joakim
12:02:08 <Zakim> + +95385aabb
12:02:38 <tmichel> Hello everyone ...
12:03:21 <joakim> David are you on the phoen bridge aswell?
12:03:38 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #mediaann
12:04:33 <wbailer> regrets: florian, raphael, chris, tobias, veronique
12:05:16 <wbailer> regrets+ felix
12:05:47 <Zakim> + +47.24.4.aacc
12:05:57 <pchampin> zakim, aacc is me
12:05:57 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
12:06:03 <pchampin> hi all, sorry I'm late
12:06:08 <pchampin> zakim, mute me
12:06:08 <Zakim> pchampin should now be muted
12:06:51 <joakim> scriber?
12:06:54 <pchampin> ok
12:06:56 <pchampin> pchampi
12:07:04 <pchampin> scribe: pchampin
12:07:07 <pchampin> yes
12:07:13 <pchampin> zakim, unmute me
12:07:13 <Zakim> pchampin should no longer be muted
12:07:27 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/admin.html
12:07:27 <pchampin> topic: minutes approval
12:07:36 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2009/12/01-mediaann-minutes.html
12:08:12 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open
12:08:14 <pchampin> Joakim: next week will be the last telecon before Xmas holiday
12:08:32 <pchampin> minutes approved
12:08:50 <pchampin> topic: open action items
12:10:14 <pchampin> ACTION-154?
12:10:14 <trackbot> ACTION-154 -- Joakim Söderberg to ask dave about the relationship of digital data exchange with Apple stuff, ID3, iTunesXML, etc -- due 2009-09-15 -- OPEN
12:10:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/154
12:10:31 <pchampin> Joakim: I had a discussion with Dave
12:10:40 <pchampin> close ACTION-154
12:10:40 <trackbot> ACTION-154 Ask dave about the relationship of digital data exchange with Apple stuff, ID3, iTunesXML, etc closed
12:11:52 <pchampin> ACTION-169?
12:11:52 <trackbot> ACTION-169 -- Véronique Malaisé to veronique to update text on in scope formats in ontology doc (formats not in mapping table) -- due 2009-11-12 -- OPEN
12:11:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/169
12:11:58 <pchampin> close ACTION-169
12:11:58 <trackbot> ACTION-169 veronique to update text on in scope formats in ontology doc (formats not in mapping table) closed
12:12:27 <pchampin> ACTION-172?
12:12:27 <trackbot> ACTION-172 -- Véronique Malaisé to rewrite intro to be clear on what we mean by ontology -- due 2009-11-12 -- OPEN
12:12:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/172
12:12:42 <pchampin> under review by  the co-editors
12:12:42 <pchampin> close ACTION-172
12:12:43 <trackbot> ACTION-172 rewrite intro to be clear on what we mean by ontology closed
12:12:55 <pchampin> close ACTION-174
12:12:55 <trackbot> ACTION-174 check if ontology document says that type of mapping specifies if there is a loss in semantics closed
12:13:27 <pchampin> ACTION-176?
12:13:27 <trackbot> ACTION-176 -- Joakim Söderberg to contact browser implementors to review the API document -- due 2009-11-13 -- OPEN
12:13:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/176
12:13:44 <pchampin> Joakim: I sent a mail to Dave. We also got a reply from Opera.
12:13:47 <pchampin> close ACTION-176
12:13:48 <trackbot> ACTION-176 Contact browser implementors to review the API document closed
12:14:18 <pchampin> ACTION-175?
12:14:18 <trackbot> ACTION-175 -- Felix Sasaki to define data type mappings as soon as the data types for the formats are defined -- due 2009-11-12 -- OPEN
12:14:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/175
12:14:24 <pchampin> text has been included
12:14:39 <pchampin> close ACTION-185
12:14:39 <trackbot> ACTION-185 rigo@w3.org to ask pling wg to provide text on including policy information closed
12:15:14 <pchampin> ACTION-189?
12:15:14 <trackbot> ACTION-189 -- Tobias Bürger to work on the the subproperties (http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Sub_Types) -- due 2009-11-13 -- OPEN
12:15:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/189
12:15:22 <pchampin> Joakim: is this still relevant?
12:15:27 <pchampin> Werner: it has been postponed
12:15:35 <pchampin> ... we can keep it as a reminder
12:15:49 <pchampin> Joakim: can we change the description of this action?
12:16:10 <pchampin> Werner: the decision is to handle subproperties in a generic way
12:16:22 <pchampin> ... and may be in the future define specific subproperties.
12:18:44 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #mediaann
12:19:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:19:44 <pchampin> Updated ACTION-189 to mark it "postponed"
12:22:57 <tmichel> the  Requirements document  seems to be here http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-req/mediaont-req.html
12:23:16 <tmichel> at least it is the one linked from the WG home page
12:25:14 <pchampin> ACTION-192?
12:25:14 <trackbot> ACTION-192 -- Joakim Söderberg to and everyone to review the Requirements document before 1/12 -- due 2009-12-01 -- OPEN
12:25:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/192
12:25:27 <pchampin> Wonsuk: we got some feedback on the document
12:26:02 <pchampin> ... we will issue a new version next tuesday
12:26:56 <pchampin> close ACTION-192
12:26:56 <trackbot> ACTION-192 And everyone to review the Requirements document before 1/12 closed
12:27:04 <florian> florian has joined #mediaann
12:29:20 <pchampin> Joakim: I remind everyone to take time to update their table
12:29:37 <pchampin> Wonsuk: I tried to update the table with Amaya, but I failed.
12:29:57 <pchampin> ... can you remind the details to gain access to the file?
12:30:17 <pchampin> Thierry: get in touch with me, I'll give you the details.
12:30:41 <joakim> Wonsuk: the trick is to get the link correct:
12:30:47 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/ID3.html
12:30:54 <joakim> becomes
12:30:56 <joakim> http://jigedit.w3.org/jsderber/WWW/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/ID3.html
12:31:15 <pchampin> Thierry: the WG homepage has 2 sections
12:31:24 <pchampin> ... documents in WG space, and drafts in developments
12:31:32 <pchampin> ... I will remove the mapping tables from the 2nd section
12:31:46 <pchampin> ... because we are now working on the version from the WG space.
12:32:24 <joakim> This is the current version.
12:32:25 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/mapping_table.html
12:33:11 <pchampin> Werner: the version from the draft was exported from XLS
12:33:41 <pchampin> Thierry: we have decided to stop working on the XLS, and edit the XHTML direcectly
12:34:23 <pchampin> ... in the WG space;
12:34:43 <pchampin> ... so I will remove the one in "drats", which is frozen and outdated.
12:35:30 <pchampin> ... (both HTML and XLS files)
12:35:44 <pchampin> ... I will check that we do not lose any information in the process.
12:37:50 <pchampin> ... I will also remove the Ontology document from the WG space,
12:37:56 <pchampin> ... since we do not work on this one.
12:38:11 <pchampin> ... Hence each document will be present at exactly one place
12:38:16 <pchampin> ... which will avoid confusion.
12:39:00 <pchampin> action tmichel to send a mail to the group explaining the different document spaces and why some documents are to be removed
12:39:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-200 - Send a mail to the group explaining the different document spaces and why some documents are to be removed [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-12-15].
12:40:00 <pchampin> close ACTION-199
12:40:01 <trackbot> ACTION-199 Daniel to check availability of phone conference bridge and send info to joakim closed
12:40:42 <pchampin> topic: UC & Req document update
12:41:33 <joakim> zakim, who is noisy?
12:41:43 <Zakim> joakim, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +95385aabb (90%), joakim (30%)
12:41:49 <pchampin> s/UC & Req/Ontology/
12:42:43 <pchampin> Wonsuj summarizes the current state of the document.
12:43:30 <wonsuk> s/Wonsuj/Wonsuk
12:43:58 <pchampin> topic: Test suites
12:44:22 <pchampin> Joakim: the test suite should be ready by the time we have the specification issued
12:44:46 <pchampin> ... Does Thierry has any recommendation about how to proceed?
12:45:02 <pchampin> Thierry: experience from other WGs (SMIL):
12:45:08 <pchampin> ... identify functionalities
12:45:15 <pchampin> ... provide test for each functionality
12:45:32 <pchampin> ... assign two people to each functionality
12:45:44 <pchampin> ... so that each can verify that the test is correct
12:46:19 <pchampin> ... Another solution :
12:46:37 <pchampin> ... some company have test suites for testing their own implementations
12:46:56 <pchampin> ... Quite different from the W3C approach, where each test is expected to be quite atomic.
12:47:13 <pchampin> The goal is to make sure that two implementors will interpret the functionality the same way
12:47:30 <pchampin> ... and implement it in an interoperable way.
12:47:48 <pchampin> ... So there should be 1 test <-> 1 functionality
12:48:26 <pchampin> Joakim: will our test be made complicated by the fact that we envision both client-side and server-side implementations?
12:49:02 <pchampin> Werner: server-side implementations could be hidden by a facade javascript library
12:49:15 <pchampin> ... so the same test could be applied to client-side and server-side implementations.
12:49:20 <pchampin> pchampin: +1 to Werner
12:49:38 <pchampin> Thierry: we don't need an implementation that passes all the tests.
12:50:00 <pchampin> .. one product can pass only 1/2 tests, another product only 1/3
12:50:18 <pchampin> ... The requirement is that *each* test has 2 implementations that pass it.
12:50:37 <pchampin> ... Or we can not become CR.
12:51:26 <pchampin> But there is no requirement for an implementation passing 100% tests.
12:51:47 <pchampin> pchampin: that is an important distinction, indeed.
12:52:07 <pchampin> Thierry: once we agree that the specification is stable enough,
12:52:21 <pchampin> ... then we should list functionalities and assign people to test cases.
12:52:38 <pchampin> ... We should start to do this in last call.
12:53:09 <pchampin> ... But this is a very busy phase : lot of comments to be processed.
12:53:42 <pchampin> Joakim: hopefuly, the spec will be quite stable by the next F2F.
12:54:31 <pchampin> Thierry: the question of the test suites should be raised at the F2F.
12:55:00 <pchampin> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:55:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html pchampin
12:55:13 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
12:55:14 <Zakim> -joakim
12:55:14 <Zakim> -wbailer
12:55:23 <Zakim> - +95385aabb
12:55:31 <Zakim> -pchampin
12:55:32 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()7:00AM has ended
12:55:33 <Zakim> Attendees were +0436991876aaaa, wbailer, joakim, +95385aabb, +47.24.4.aacc, pchampin, [IPcaller]
12:55:53 <wonsuk> wonsuk has left #mediaann
12:55:56 <pchampin> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:55:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html pchampin
12:57:04 <joakim> agree, can't access it either!
12:57:42 <pchampin> :-(
12:58:02 <joakim> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:58:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html joakim
12:58:45 <pchampin> seems to last...
12:58:54 <pchampin> thierry, are you still there?
12:59:19 <pchampin> rrsagent, make minutes
12:59:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html pchampin
12:59:27 <joakim> rrsagent, make log public
12:59:35 <joakim> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:59:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/08-mediaann-minutes.html joakim
13:00:04 <pchampin> there's a lot of black magic around W3C bots... :-/
13:00:09 <joakim> it works!
13:00:15 <pchampin> yep
13:00:20 <joakim> take care!
14:55:40 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediaann
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