IRC log of xproc on 2009-12-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:58:49 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-xproc-irc
16:00:14 [PGrosso]
Zakim, this is xproc
16:00:33 [Zakim]
ok, PGrosso; that matches XML_PMWG()11:00AM
16:00:37 [Norm]
Zakim, what's the passcode?
16:00:55 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Norm
16:01:15 [Vojtech]
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16:01:44 [alexmilowski]
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16:03:05 [Zakim]
+Norm
16:03:14 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
16:03:14 [Norm]
Date: 3 Dec 2009
16:03:14 [Norm]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/12/03-agenda
16:03:14 [Norm]
Meeting: 161
16:03:14 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
16:03:14 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
16:03:16 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
16:03:22 [Zakim]
+Alex_Milows
16:03:47 [Zakim]
+Jeroen
16:03:57 [Vojtech]
Zakim, Jeroen is Vojtech
16:04:04 [Zakim]
+Vojtech; got it
16:04:05 [Norm]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:04:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see PGrosso, Norm, Alex_Milows, Vojtech
16:05:32 [Norm]
Present: Paul, Norm, Alex, Vojtech
16:05:34 [Zakim]
+Murray_Maloney
16:05:42 [Norm]
Present: Paul, Norm, Alex, Vojtech, Murray
16:05:49 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
16:05:49 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/12/03-agenda
16:06:02 [Norm]
Accepted.
16:06:07 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
16:06:08 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2009/11/12-minutes
16:06:19 [Norm]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2009Nov/0026.html
16:06:31 [ht]
ht has joined #xproc
16:06:36 [Norm]
Accepted.
16:06:41 [ht]
zakim, please call ht-781
16:06:41 [Zakim]
ok, ht; the call is being made
16:06:43 [Zakim]
+Ht
16:06:49 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 10 Dec 2009
16:07:17 [Norm]
Paul is at risk for 10 December; Murray possibly.
16:07:24 [Norm]
Present: Paul, Norm, Alex, Vojtech, Murray, Henry
16:07:35 [Norm]
Topic: CR issues
16:08:35 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2008/11/cr-comments/
16:10:50 [Norm]
Topic: 174 formal qualification for things like p:xpath-context, etc.
16:11:08 [Norm]
Henry: This seems to me to be about the question of what is the error. The answer is there's been a static error since day one.
16:11:31 [Norm]
Henry: What is the error for p:banana in p:for-each
16:11:55 [Norm]
Norm: For ordinary behavior, I think the answer is clear. I think this is about fowards-compatible behavior.
16:12:00 [ht]
or my:zoolander in p:for-each
16:12:15 [Norm]
Vojtech: It's a static error because it's an unknown element or a dynamic error if it's an unknown step.
16:13:16 [Norm]
Norm: It's a static error in the my:zoolander case because you have to have imported a decl for it.
16:14:49 [Norm]
Henry: You have to use use-when.
16:15:16 [Norm]
Vojtech: With respect to instruction-avaialble, you can always use the version.
16:16:10 [Norm]
Norm: You can check for an available step, but not an available new thing like p:new-serialization.
16:16:28 [Norm]
Vojtech: That would be a new language feature.
16:16:39 [Norm]
Norm: Right, and I think we're willing to live with a little less flexibility there.
16:17:51 [Norm]
Vojtech: Checking for p:new-serialization wouldn't be flexible enough, you might want to check for an attribute for example.
16:18:13 [Norm]
Henry: Basically, you want to say "use-when this stylesheet will work" and that's just not easy. You'll have to use version numbers for now.
16:18:58 [Norm]
Henry: Version-available is all you get in V1 and that's going to have to be enough.
16:19:31 [Norm]
ACTION: Henry to follow-up with Vasil.
16:20:01 [Norm]
Topic: 176 p:output and connections
16:21:47 [Norm]
ACTION: Editor to consider whether it's possible to clarify the definitions of atomic and compound steps.
16:23:08 [Norm]
Topic: 177 p:use-when on non-XProc elements
16:23:27 [Norm]
Vojtech: There were two things. I think no action is necessary.
16:23:43 [Norm]
Norm: Perfect, I'll close that one.
16:24:58 [Norm]
Topic: 178 exclude-inline-prefixes
16:25:14 [Norm]
This was discussed at the 12 November meeting. Decision was that no name change was necessary.
16:26:24 [Norm]
Norm: I updated 5.12
16:26:32 [Norm]
Henry: I saw that and concluded that my action had been overtaken.
16:26:34 [Norm]
Vojtech: Yes.
16:26:41 [Norm]
Norm: Proposal: close as resolved
16:26:47 [Norm]
Accepted.
16:27:41 [Norm]
Topic: 179 use-when and p:episode
16:27:58 [Norm]
Norm: Updated 3.9. Is everyone satisfied?
16:28:23 [Norm]
Henry: I'm still concerned about listing only what isn't possible. I had listed the things that are available.
16:28:46 [ht]
zakim, disconnect ht
16:28:46 [Zakim]
Ht is being disconnected
16:28:48 [Zakim]
-Ht
16:28:48 [Norm]
Vojtech: If you use use-when in a pipeline labeled version=1.0, then step-available only sees the 1.0 steps, right?
16:28:50 [Norm]
Norm: Uh...
16:28:52 [ht]
zakim, call ht-781
16:28:52 [Zakim]
ok, ht; the call is being made
16:28:54 [Zakim]
+Ht
16:29:08 [Norm]
Vojtech: Which means that during pre-processing you must take version into account.
16:29:43 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, I think that's right.
16:30:13 [Norm]
Norm: I think the fact that you're in a 1.0 pipeline is something you must know when you evaluate use-when expressions.
16:30:48 [Norm]
Vojtech: So a 1.0 pipeline with a 2.0 declare-step, if the declare-step includes a use-when you have to use 2.0
16:30:57 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, that's probably worth mentioning.
16:31:38 [Norm]
ACTION: Norm to clarify that version comes into play in use-when
16:36:45 [Norm]
Topic: 180 passing a boolean value as a with-param
16:38:29 [MoZ]
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16:39:14 [Norm]
Henry: Why doesn't this just work?
16:39:28 [Norm]
Norm: Because the XPath 2 type system doesn't promote from xs:string to anything automatically.
16:39:35 [Norm]
Norm: I think this just a limitation in v1.0
16:40:01 [Norm]
Proposal: We just have to live with it.
16:40:22 [Norm]
Norm: Any objections?
16:40:25 [Norm]
Accepted.
16:40:49 [Norm]
Topic: 181 using tokens
16:40:52 [Norm]
Norm: No new features at this point.
16:41:21 [Norm]
Topic: 184 iteration position and size
16:41:30 [Norm]
Norm: I think the upshot is only viewport and for-each change the values
16:42:00 [Norm]
ACTION: Editor to clarify
16:43:15 [Norm]
Topic: 185 content-disposition and content-id
16:43:21 [Norm]
ACTION: Alex to investigate and report back
16:44:46 [Norm]
Topic: 186 encoding and charset
16:45:29 [Norm]
Vojtech: In making the request, if you say encoding=base64 with no charset, then you just send the decoded byte sequence, right?
16:46:16 [Norm]
Alex: c:body has content-type but no charset
16:46:45 [Norm]
Norm: Right, I think Vojtech's argument to put it in the content type is compelling.
16:48:44 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, c:data on those steps should be consistent with unescape markup
16:52:16 [Norm]
Topic: 190 Namespace attribute for steps that take wrappers
16:52:27 [Norm]
Henry: I'm happy with new-prefix.
16:54:16 [Norm]
Norm: I propose to add new-namespace and new-prefix (with appropriate names) to all the steps that have wrapper element names as options.
16:54:21 [Norm]
Norm: Any objectins?
16:54:25 [Norm]
s/objectins/objections/
16:54:27 [Norm]
Accepted.
16:55:03 [Norm]
Topic: 191 Nodeilsts as value
16:55:07 [Norm]
Norm: No new features.
16:55:23 [PGrosso]
s/Nodeilsts/Nodelists/
16:56:20 [Norm]
Norm: I think I should have filtered this one out.
16:56:35 [Zakim]
-Alex_Milows
16:56:46 [Norm]
Topic: Recent editor's draft
16:56:51 [Norm]
Henry: I'm happy with it.
16:56:58 [alexmilowski]
huh..
16:57:02 [alexmilowski]
I'm still on the phone...
16:57:04 [Norm]
Vojtech: I have one small thing regarding the XQuery step.
16:57:08 [alexmilowski]
but you all don't think so. :(
16:57:35 [alexmilowski]
I'm happy with the most recent draft too.
16:58:18 [Norm]
...I think in Santa Clara we concluded that for things like XQuery or text input, we don't inherit any namespace bindings.
16:59:08 [Norm]
Norm: I'd have to review the minutes again.
17:00:41 [Norm]
Topic: Last call plans
17:01:52 [Norm]
Norm: We're out of time, I'll take it to email
17:01:58 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business?
17:02:04 [Norm]
None heard.
17:02:05 [Norm]
Adjourned.
17:02:09 [Zakim]
-Murray_Maloney
17:02:11 [Zakim]
-Norm
17:02:11 [Zakim]
-Vojtech
17:02:12 [Zakim]
-Ht
17:02:15 [Zakim]
-PGrosso
17:02:15 [Norm]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
17:02:16 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()11:00AM has ended
17:02:18 [Zakim]
Attendees were PGrosso, Norm, Alex_Milows, Vojtech, Murray_Maloney, Ht
17:02:20 [Norm]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:02:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-xproc-minutes.html Norm
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