15:55:02 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:55:02 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-html-a11y-irc
15:55:04 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:55:04 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:55:06 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:55:07 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:55:07 Date: 03 December 2009
15:55:07 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:56:13 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
15:56:20 +Gregory_Rosmaita
15:56:24 Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
15:56:28 ScribeNick: oedipus
15:56:32 regrets: chaals,Laura_Carlson,Joshue_O_Connor,Stephane_Deschamps,Kelly_Ford,Gez_Lemon,Aurélien_Levy,Sylvia_Pfeiffer,Cynthia_Shelly,Maciej_Stachowiak,
15:56:39 + +1.650.862.aaaa
15:57:05 Stevef has joined #html-a11y
15:57:08 + +1.512.206.aabb
15:57:09 zakim, aaaa is John_Foliot
15:57:09 +John_Foliot; got it
15:57:19 AllanJ has joined #html-a11y
15:57:47 +Cooper
15:57:49 +??P1
15:58:26 zakim, ??P1 is me
15:58:26 +Stevef; got it
15:58:35 +dsinger
15:58:57 standing regrets for 1600h UTC thursdays: Laura_Carlson, Gez_Lemon, Sylvia_Pfeiffer
15:59:07 + +49.693.650.5.aacc
15:59:13 janina has joined #html-a11y
15:59:15 zakim, aabb is really AllanJ
15:59:15 +AllanJ; got it
15:59:19 Laura has joined #html-a11y
15:59:27 dsinger_ has joined #html-a11y
15:59:33 Ben has joined #html-a11y
15:59:38 zakim, mute me
15:59:38 sorry, dsinger_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:59:40 zakim, +49 is Martin_Kliehm
15:59:40 +Martin_Kliehm; got it
15:59:41 zakim, this will be a11y
15:59:41 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:42 zakim, aacc is me
15:59:44 sorry, kliehm, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
15:59:57 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:59:58 I notice WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has restarted
15:59:59 zakim, call janina
16:00:01 On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot, AllanJ, Stevef, Cooper, dsinger, Martin_Kliehm
16:00:04 MRanon has joined #html-a11y
16:00:04 ok, janina; the call is being made
16:00:05 zakim, Martin is kliehm
16:00:13 +Janina
16:00:16 +kliehm; got it
16:00:28 + +1.408.307.aadd
16:00:43 + +1.617.300.aaee - is perhaps WGBH?
16:00:52 JF has joined #html-a11y
16:00:59 +??P22
16:01:00 zakim, aaee is Geoff_Freed
16:01:09 408 is eric_carlson
16:01:12 zakim, +1.408 is Eric_Carlson
16:01:26 sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
16:01:27 +Eric_Carlson; got it
16:01:28 zakim, ??P22 is Henny_Swan
16:01:40 Zakim, mute dsinger_
16:01:43 +Henny_Swan; got it
16:01:52 + +1.207.388.aaff
16:01:52 zakim, +1.617.300.aaee is Geoff_Freed
16:01:59 Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
16:02:03 sorry, dsinger_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to dsinger_
16:02:15 sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named '+1.617.300.aaee'
16:02:27 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:02:28 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:29 +Mike
16:02:31 +??P28
16:02:56 On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot, AllanJ, Stevef, Cooper, dsinger, kliehm, Janina, Eric_Carlson, WGBH?, Henny_Swan, +1.207.388.aaff, ??P28, Mike (muted)
16:02:56 zakim, pointer?
16:03:17 zakim, WGBH? is Geoff_Freed
16:03:22 Zakim, drop Mike
16:03:26 Zakim, mute dsinger
16:03:36 I don't understand your question, oedipus.
16:03:40 +Geoff_Freed; got it
16:03:42 -Mike
16:03:43 sorry, MikeSmith, I do not see a party named 'Mike'
16:03:49 dsinger should now be muted
16:03:53 Joshue has joined #html-a11y
16:03:53 zakim, ??P28 is Ben_Caldwell
16:04:02 +Ben_Caldwell; got it
16:04:05 +Matt
16:04:06 zakim, +1.207 is probably Marco_Ranon
16:04:09 Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
16:04:12 +Marco_Ranon?; got it
16:04:15 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:04:17 +Mike
16:04:19 zakim, I am Ben_Caldwell
16:04:22 ok, Ben, I now associate you with Ben_Caldwell
16:04:32 zakim, Matt is Matt_May
16:04:32 +Matt_May; got it
16:04:34 + +1.217.840.aagg
16:04:35 Zakim, Mike is me
16:04:35 +MikeSmith; got it
16:04:41 - +1.217.840.aagg
16:04:59 +??P38
16:05:08 the church of the subgenius
16:05:10 zakim, ??P38 is Joshue
16:05:10 +Joshue; got it
16:05:26 + +1.217.840.aahh
16:05:28 - +1.217.840.aahh
16:06:55 zakim, mute me
16:06:57 Joshue should now be muted
16:07:06 JS: cofacillitator from PFWG, MikeSmith facillitator from HTML WG, Michael Cooper staff contact for TF
16:07:20 JS: goal: sense of what we should be working on through january and in what order
16:07:23 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
16:07:23 Chair: Janina_Sajka
16:07:23 agenda: this
16:07:23 agenda+ identify scribe
16:07:23 agenda+ Participation Expectations Discussion--Good Standing Draft
16:07:23 zakim, Marco is temp
16:07:23 agenda+ TF Subgroups (Canvas; Video; ...) Procedures Discussion
16:07:25 agenda+ Existing Issues Prioritization--What? Who? When?
16:07:28 agenda+ next and future meetings--December Deliverables
16:07:29 zakim, Ben is Marco_Ranon
16:07:29 +temp; got it
16:07:29 agenda+ New Business
16:07:31 agenda+ be done
16:07:35 zakim, temp is Ben_Caldwell
16:07:37 +Marco_Ranon; got it
16:07:44 +Ben_Caldwell; got it
16:07:44 i/JS: goal/topic: Getting Acquainted
16:07:51 JS: janina sajka
16:07:58 zakim, WGBH has Geoff_Freed
16:07:58 sorry, MichaelC, I do not recognize a party named 'WGBH'
16:08:02 +Rich
16:08:18 JS: please state name before speaking during first few meetings
16:08:21 jongunderson has joined #html-a11y
16:08:35 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
16:08:43 I was disconnected from the bridge twice
16:08:46 JS: there are a number of people who cannot join call
16:08:51 standing regrets for 1600h UTC thursdays: Laura_Carlson, Gez_Lemon, Sylvia_Pfeiffer
16:08:52 mhakkinen has joined #html-a11y
16:09:21 JS: wasn't time that worked for everybody - will take stock of meeting attendance weekly
16:09:43 JS: if need to adjust meeting date/time, can do, but will try thursdays at 1600h UTC
16:10:02 topic: Participation & Expectations
16:10:13 JS: will introduce topics and open for discussion
16:10:28 JS: should expect that co-facillitators will rotate as far as chairing
16:10:34 chair: Janina_Sajka
16:10:45 + +1.217.840.aaii
16:10:48 +[IPcaller]
16:10:54 JS: primarly drawn from PF and HTML WGs but are own group
16:11:11 zakim, +1.217 is Jon_Gunderson
16:11:11 +Jon_Gunderson; got it
16:11:14 s/primarly drawn/participants primarily drawn/
16:11:32 JS: establishing TF identity - not PF nor HTML, but HTML A11y Task Force
16:11:32 zakim, IPCaller is Markku_Hakkinen
16:11:32 +Markku_Hakkinen; got it
16:11:53 JS: co-facillitators and staff contact have had discussion - want to lay out what is expected of participants
16:12:02 JS: expect those here to be ACTIVE participants
16:12:23 JS: here to participate in decisions and discussions that will lead to HTML specs that adequately support a11y -- raison d'etre
16:12:36 JS: participate in telecons as able, through email, through wiki
16:12:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/
16:13:13 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/
16:13:25 JS: policy for TF re: good standing - based on participation
16:13:37 JS: co-facilliltators working on draft of good standing
16:13:52 JS: point is not to be bureaucratic, but efficient
16:13:58 JS: solutions-oriented work
16:14:18 regrets+ Wendy_Chisholm
16:14:43 JS: asked to create task force from PF - HTML WG agreed and offered to co-facillitate
16:15:09 dsinger__ has joined #html-a11y
16:15:13 JS: point: expedite accessibility issues, concerns, bugs, etc.
16:15:50 JS: brief statement about expectations on how TF members will conduct themselves; we are all professionals, so please conduct self with professionalism
16:16:04 JS: keep discussions and debates on the issues and specific technologies
16:16:20 JS: avoid personalities and focus on solutions and concrete suggestions
16:16:33 MS (MikeSmith)
16:16:43 MS: good summation
16:17:02 JS: quick thumbnail of good standing process
16:17:24 JS: will finish draft and send to html-a11y list for review and consensus at next thursday's meeting
16:17:29 MC (Michael Cooper)
16:17:49 MC: using W3C "good standing" process as closely to letter of W3C process as possible
16:18:05 MC: good standing = participation in some form at least once every 2 weeks
16:18:12 MC: number of channels TF uses
16:18:15 dsinger_ has changed the topic to: HTML accessibility
16:18:27 MC: email list, wiki,
16:18:37 MC: if not at telecon, reading/reviewing minutes
16:18:57 MC: important to keep all hands busy since fortunate enough to have such a large response
16:19:35 MC: if people aren't able to be active, will be marked as "not in good standing" -- effect: 1 marked as not in good standing, cannot make objection to decisions if not in good standing
16:19:53 MC: only participants in good standing can make decisions
16:20:09 MC: important to be in good standing in order to have voice in TF
16:20:31 MC: if conflicts arise, let the co-facillitators and staff contact know
16:20:52 MC: to restore good standing, all one need do is participate in TF fora
16:20:55 JS: questions?
16:21:13 JS: will conduct ourselves as the professionals we are
16:21:36 JS: TF evolving its own procedures; one aspect how to reach decisions
16:21:47 JS: can start with W3C consensus policies
16:22:11 JS: when not unanimous on specific approach, need to figure out how to reach decision of group in such cases; not simple majority voting, but what?
16:22:26 JS: think we can take time to figure out as TF members become more familiar with one another
16:22:49 JS: can develop own decision-making processes -- keep in mind, that it is an evolving process
16:23:05 HTML A11y Task Force Home Page: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Main_Page
16:23:08 HTML A11y Task Force Work Statement: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force.html
16:23:45 JS: will make decisions in teleconferences as PFWG does; will NOT make major decisions -- those will be covered by email solicitations (24-48 hour "heartburn" check)
16:24:17 s/major decisions.../major decisions at teleconferences.
16:24:32 s/major decisions/major decisions at teleconferences.
16:25:34 JS: if participant has needs special needs (interpreters for deaf, for example) will make every attempt to support participation (interpreters, etc.) -- will be working on decisioning process, this telecon is part of that
16:25:51 JS: goal: to hear from all interested/affected parties
16:26:20 rrsagent, make minutes
16:26:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:26:54 MS: important that TF members know how decision making policy vis a vis telecon recording resolutions and decisions
16:26:59 JS: questions? comments?
16:27:05 [none logged]
16:27:16 topic: TF Subgroups (Canvas; Video; ...) Procedures Discussion
16:27:41 JS: adopting a sub-group that pre-exists A11y TF -- canvas sub-team led by RichS of IBM
16:27:58 JS: also adopting another group which is in process of organizing, which is sub-team dealing with media issues
16:28:08 JS: accessibility for multimedia on HTML5
16:28:20 JS: JohnF and DaveS did great presentation during TPAC
16:28:39 JS: expectations for sub-groups: you are on your own - can have own teleons (as canvas does)
16:28:55 JS: might be useful for media subgroup to have own list and teleconferences
16:29:09 JS: canvas already having own telecons
16:29:19 We organized an informal meeting prior to Tpac, no presentation at Tpac
16:29:24 JS: might need to invite experts for particular discussions
16:29:44 s/during TPAC/in advance of TPAC 2009
16:30:14 JS: tracker - can add "products" pegged to topics
16:30:49 JS: for W3C process -- on wiki, have a minimal work statement for each sub-teacm for wiki -- this is what this sub-group is about and this is what its goals and timeline and work plan is
16:30:54 RS (RichS)
16:31:19 RS: most a11y people will be tied up until monday (publication of new ARIA draft)
16:31:38 JS: would like to get subgroup descriptions, etc on wiki by end of year
16:32:02 SF (Steve Faulkner)
16:32:13 SF: when decide about formation of sub-groups in addition to canvas and multimedia
16:32:36 Does Steve have an idea for another Sub Group?
16:32:42 JS: as prioritize issues, should shake out into a work plan -- may decide during review of issues to spawn supgroup if necessary
16:32:46 zakim, unmute me
16:32:46 Joshue should no longer be muted
16:32:48 +q
16:33:02 q?
16:33:18 JOC (Joshue O Connor)
16:33:39 JOC: if any groups that want me for any issue, please do because i have some open time right now
16:33:44 lol
16:33:48 rrsagent, make minutes
16:33:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:33:52 zakim, mute me
16:33:52 Joshue should now be muted
16:33:57 TOPIC: Existing Issues Prioritization -- What? Who? When?
16:34:20 JS: facillitators and staff contact thought that ARIA-mapping may be one area
16:34:24 JS: what to do with @alt
16:34:28 JS: @summary
16:34:42 JS: brainstorm roadmap of what to attack when
16:35:28 GJR: need to ascertain what from HTML5 has been implemented
16:35:58 GJR: One means of prioritising is that we need to know what parts of HTML are being implemented etc so we can anticipate any issues.
16:36:00 +1 GJR
16:36:11 GJR: Our work should be mapped to HTML in the wild
16:36:12 regrets- Joshue_O_Connor
16:36:20 present+ Joshue_O_Connor
16:36:41 JS: used keywords in HTML5 bugzilla to identify accessiblity related issues - keyword: a11y
16:37:15 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&keywords=a11ytf
16:37:45 q+ to say that there are other implementations to consider other than just browsers
16:37:57 -q
16:38:02 ack MikeSmith
16:38:02 MikeSmith, you wanted to say that there are other implementations to consider other than just browsers
16:38:03 q?
16:38:57 MS: agree with GJR's point about addressing issues vis a vis implementation of features in order to prioritize discussions for this group; not just browsers that are important -- conformance checkers - no conformance checker other than validator.nu
16:39:16 q?
16:39:36