IRC log of CSS on 2009-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:14:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #CSS
16:14:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:14:48 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
16:14:48 [Zakim]
ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 46 minutes
16:44:30 [plinss]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:46:44 [glazou]
hi peter
16:48:54 [plinss]
16:50:16 [oyvind]
oyvind has joined #css
16:51:53 [smfr]
smfr has joined #css
16:52:36 [CesarAcebal]
Well, I must leave now for the exam I had told you, so I won't be able to attend the teleconference today, sorry. Bye!
16:53:28 [glazou]
bye CesarAcebal
16:53:50 [glazou]
argggggl just broke my headset :(
16:53:51 [glazou]
16:54:17 [glazou]
Zakim, code ?
16:54:17 [Zakim]
the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), glazou
16:54:27 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
16:54:34 [Zakim]
+ +95089aaaa
16:55:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.858.216.aabb
16:55:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.398.aacc
16:56:00 [plinss]
zakim, +1.858.216 is me
16:56:00 [Zakim]
+plinss; got it
16:56:27 [plinss]
zakim, +95089 is glazou
16:56:27 [Zakim]
+glazou; got it
16:58:08 [dsinger_]
dsinger_ has joined #css
16:58:35 [dsinger_]
Zakim, who is here?
16:58:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see glazou, plinss, +1.408.398.aacc
16:58:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dsinger_, smfr, oyvind, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Lachy, szilles, myakura, jdaggett, shepazu, dsinger, krijnh, anne, TabAtkins, karl, fantasai, plinss, trackbot, Bert,
16:58:38 [Zakim]
... Hixie, plinss_
16:59:01 [dsinger_]
Zakim, aacc is dsinger
16:59:01 [Zakim]
+dsinger; got it
16:59:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.636.aadd
16:59:18 [smfr]
Zakim: aadd is smfr
16:59:30 [smfr]
Zakim, aadd is smfr
16:59:30 [Zakim]
+smfr; got it
16:59:31 [dsinger_]
zakim, mute me
16:59:32 [Zakim]
sorry, dsinger_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:59:41 [smfr]
Zakim: you should learn about colons
16:59:46 [glazou]
Zakim, mute dsinger
16:59:46 [Zakim]
dsinger should now be muted
17:01:20 [TabAtkins]
man, it keeps telling me the code is invalid
17:01:21 [Zakim]
17:01:49 [smfr]
TabAtkins: dbaron had that issue last week
17:01:53 [TabAtkins]
17:01:58 [glazou]
happens often
17:02:04 [smfr]
file a bug!
17:02:13 [glazou]
TabAtkins: try composing the code rather fast
17:02:23 [Zakim]
17:02:45 [Zakim]
17:02:49 [sylvaing]
sylvaing has joined #css
17:03:37 [plinss]
zakim, [Mozilla] has fantasai
17:03:37 [Zakim]
+fantasai; got it
17:04:00 [plinss]
zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
17:04:03 [Zakim]
+sylvaing; got it
17:04:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.281.712.aaee
17:05:02 [TabAtkins]
Zakim, aaee is TabAtkins
17:05:02 [Zakim]
+TabAtkins; got it
17:05:13 [bradk]
bradk has joined #css
17:05:17 [dsinger_]
zakim, who is here?
17:05:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see glazou, plinss, dsinger (muted), smfr, Bert, [Microsoft], [Mozilla], TabAtkins
17:05:19 [Zakim]
[Mozilla] has fantasai
17:05:22 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bradk, sylvaing, dsinger_, smfr, oyvind, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Lachy, szilles, myakura, jdaggett, shepazu, dsinger, krijnh, anne, TabAtkins, karl, fantasai, plinss,
17:05:24 [fantasai]
ScribeNick: fantasai
17:05:24 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has sylvaing
17:05:26 [Zakim]
... trackbot, Bert, Hixie, plinss_
17:05:33 [fantasai]
glazou: Mozilla has implemented pointer-events property
17:05:38 [fantasai]
glazou: And extended it to HTML
17:05:46 [fantasai]
smfr: WebKit does that two
17:05:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.766.aaff
17:05:51 [fantasai]
17:05:55 [fantasai]
only 2 values are implemented
17:06:10 [bradk]
Zakim, 1.650.766.aaff is me
17:06:10 [Zakim]
sorry, bradk, I do not recognize a party named '1.650.766.aaff'
17:06:24 [plinss]
zakim, aaff is bradk
17:06:24 [Zakim]
+bradk; got it
17:06:33 [fantasai]
glazou: The two values are auto and none
17:06:35 [bradk]
17:06:45 [glazou]
17:06:47 [fantasai]
glazou: First item is percentage height calculations
17:06:52 [fantasai]
Topic: Percentage Height calculations
17:07:03 [fantasai]
glazou: dbaron is not on the call, so we may want to defer
17:07:16 [glazou]
17:07:20 [fantasai]
Topic: Feedback on Spec Conventions
17:07:30 [fantasai]
glazou: Discussed that last week, feedback from group is welcome
17:07:39 [fantasai]
Tab: I went through thread and agree with everything fantasai said
17:08:01 [fantasai]
Tab: Also, Schepers is using <em> in some cases for no other reason except to get italics
17:08:10 [fantasai]
Tab: He's using it for italics, not for emphasis
17:08:14 [fantasai]
Tab: He should be using <i>
17:08:23 [fantasai]
Tab: That's the only comment I have; the rest seems acceptable
17:08:49 [fantasai]
glazou: Do you want to send that yourself?
17:08:56 [fantasai]
Tab: I can send it myself
17:09:03 [glazou]
17:09:05 [fantasai]
glazou: Please also say that the group has no other comments
17:09:06 [fantasai]
Topic: Snapshot
17:09:41 [fantasai]
propose the 2007 Snapshot as a topic for this week's telecon
17:09:41 [fantasai]
17:09:41 [fantasai]
Originally, I was going to request publication of the snapshot
17:09:41 [fantasai]
as CR when Selectors went to CR or PR, but we're talking about
17:09:41 [fantasai]
adding new features to css3-color that will not qualify for
17:09:43 [fantasai]
the snapshot until css3-color hits PR. (CR will be insufficient
17:09:46 [fantasai]
because the snapshot assumes implementation experience even if
17:09:48 [fantasai]
the spec itself is not totally stable.)
17:09:51 [fantasai]
The question is, what should we do here?
17:09:53 [fantasai]
- Delay the snapshot until color-correction is adequately
17:09:56 [fantasai]
specced, implemented, and tested?
17:09:58 [fantasai]
- Push color-correction into a css4-color spec or a
17:10:01 [fantasai]
css3-color-profiles spec and take css3-color to the
17:10:03 [fantasai]
nearest of CR or PR?
17:10:06 [fantasai]
- Drop css3-color from the snapshot?
17:10:08 [fantasai]
- Something else?
17:10:11 [fantasai]
It's clear to me from the number of questions that the snapshot
17:10:13 [fantasai]
answers that it's important for us to take it to CR and thereby
17:10:16 [fantasai]
post it as a replacement for the outdated /TR/css3-roadmap and
17:10:18 [fantasai]
as a target for /TR/CSS3. I was expecting that with Selectors
17:10:21 [fantasai]
finally out of Last Call, this would be possible by the end of
17:10:23 [fantasai]
the year. Since that is no longer the situation, I would like
17:10:26 [fantasai]
us to come up with Plan B.
17:11:48 [fantasai]
fantasai summarizes the options here
17:12:25 [fantasai]
Tab: Were there other features we could include in the module with color-correction?
17:12:40 [fantasai]
fantasai: There were some color profile related features that were dropped earlier in the cycle for css3-color
17:12:48 [fantasai]
Tab: Then I'm mildly in favor of doing that
17:13:15 [fantasai]
sylvaing: From the options you presented, I would be more inclined to leave color-correction for later
17:13:33 [fantasai]
sylvaing: and just complete css3-color as-is
17:13:42 [fantasai]
sylvaing: I don't think it's that interesting of a feature to hold up the snapshot
17:13:52 [fantasai]
glazou: I agree
17:14:03 [fantasai]
brad: You're talking about dropping color-correction, not css3-color?
17:14:08 [fantasai]
sylvaing: Right.
17:14:18 [fantasai]
brad: Then I agree with that. Seems like the best option to me too
17:14:39 [fantasai]
Bert: Sounds good to me too. I'm in the mood for finishing specs, so let's finish some specs
17:14:54 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has joined #css
17:15:00 [smfr]
fantasai: you're breaking up pretty badly
17:15:03 [fantasai]
fantasai: do we have implementation reports for the rest of css3-color?
17:15:18 [ChrisL]
sorry to be late - got a storming headache today :(
17:16:03 [fantasai]
Bert: We have tests, but test reports..
17:16:04 [glazou]
ChrisL: np
17:16:08 [Zakim]
17:16:17 [dsinger]
are we saying that css color would be silent on correction, or require none, or...?
17:16:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.996.aagg
17:16:51 [fantasai]
fantasai: If we don't have implementations, then I propose we publish css-color as CR
17:16:52 [dsinger]
zakim, aagg is [Apple]
17:16:52 [Zakim]
+[Apple]; got it
17:16:57 [fantasai]
fantasai: and the snapshot as CR along with it
17:16:58 [dsinger]
zakim, [Apple] has dsinger
17:16:58 [Zakim]
+dsinger; got it
17:17:12 [Zakim]
17:17:33 [fantasai]
17:18:34 [fantasai]
dsinger: What would the css3-color spec say about color correction then? Nothing?
17:18:36 [fantasai]
glazou: correct
17:19:04 [fantasai]
dsinger: If css3-color is specified in srgb, then it's implied you should color correct
17:19:22 [fantasai]
dsinger: but doesn't say anything about how
17:19:37 [fantasai]
dsinger: I'm fine with that
17:20:00 [fantasai]
17:21:24 [fantasai]
Opera passes system colors, but nobody else does
17:21:42 [fantasai]
glazou: so we can aim for CR only at this time
17:21:58 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Publish css3-color as CR
17:22:10 [glazou]
17:22:13 [fantasai]
Topic: Namespaces
17:22:31 [ChrisL]
opera10 passes
17:22:33 [fantasai]
chrisl: I sent an email with a link to an implementation report
17:22:49 [szilles]
Elika, if you are removing color correction do you not have to do another last call?
17:22:51 [fantasai]
chris: which has passes for every test except one
17:22:59 [fantasai]
szilles we never published color correction
17:23:07 [szilles]
17:23:17 [fantasai]
chris: I thought the test was wrong, but then bzbarsky pointed out the part of 2.1 that makes it correct
17:23:26 [fantasai]
chris: this was news to Safari, which is why they failed it
17:23:37 [fantasai]
chris: I believe the test is actually correct, just a bit underdocumented
17:23:44 [fantasai]
chris: It still means we have one test where we only have one pass
17:24:00 [fantasai]
chris: I just wanted to know what the situation was, wasn't proposing any action
17:24:12 [fantasai]
Peter: I ran that test in FF3.5 and it didn't pass
17:24:24 [fantasai]
chris: Oh. I might've been using 3.6 then. I'll check it
17:24:32 [fantasai]
test in question -
17:24:41 [fantasai]
glazou: That test is fully green in Firefox 3.7
17:25:54 [fantasai]
chris: But the CSSWG doesn't accept nightly builds
17:25:59 [fantasai]
fantasai: We do, under certain conditions
17:26:22 [fantasai]
Peter: It has to be not an experimental implementation, and publicly available
17:26:29 [fantasai]
Peter: basically not something someone wrote to pass a test
17:26:52 [sylvaing]
cool. is that criteria written down and documented anywhere ?
17:26:54 [fantasai]
glazou: Did we need a clarification?
17:27:04 [fantasai]
chris: I guess it's clear enough, just requires reading through it carefully
17:27:56 [fantasai]
17:28:09 [fantasai]
glazou: other topics were messages from dbaron, so deferring for now...
17:28:17 [dsinger]
I think we can handle the comments, actually
17:28:18 [fantasai]
glazou: Next one is about CSSOM, but anne sent regrets
17:28:27 [glazou]
17:28:29 [fantasai]
glazou: Last item is about float values, some discussion on www-style
17:28:32 [fantasai]
Topic: Float values
17:29:01 [fantasai]
glazou: Peter noticed a subthread about the behavior of overflow regarding floats in ltr vs rtl
17:29:22 [fantasai]
peter: I think dbaron was actually bringing that one up
17:31:16 [fantasai]
fantasai: Do we want a resolution to publish the Snapshot as CR, or wait until css3-color is CR?
17:31:27 [fantasai]
Bert: maybe we can decide to do them together, at the same time?
17:31:32 [fantasai]
glazou: That would be cool
17:32:03 [ChrisL]
(Opera10 has a bunch of extra passes for color, i will send in a test report)
17:32:09 [glazou]
17:32:47 [plinss]
17:33:17 [TabAtkins]
17:33:19 [TabAtkins]
17:34:11 [fantasai]
Tab: the original part, ignoring the overflow business, was just about float direction based on text direction
17:34:17 [fantasai]
Tab: Instead of being absolute left or right
17:34:25 [fantasai]
glazou: So 'start' and 'end'?
17:34:34 [fantasai]
Tab: Yes. I think that's a fine idea
17:34:39 [fantasai]
glazou: I think it's useful for bidi
17:34:45 [fantasai]
fantasai: I agree.
17:34:49 [fantasai]
glazou: I think we should add it
17:34:58 [szilles]
i agree also
17:35:03 [fantasai]
glazou: Other opinions?
17:35:10 [fantasai]
Bert: I have no problem with adding it, not so sure it's useful
17:35:21 [fantasai]
glazou: If you want to build web apps using floats in the bidi world, then you need it
17:35:30 [fantasai]
glazou: It's useful, because you have to reverse everything.
17:35:45 [fantasai]
Bert: That's the problem, you don't have to reverse everything, only some things
17:36:01 [fantasai]
Tab: Right, so you use start and end when you need them to reverse, and left and right when you don't
17:36:07 [fantasai]
Brad: This would be useful for drop-ca
17:36:12 [fantasai]
17:36:23 [fantasai]
?: What spec are we editing here?
17:36:26 [fantasai]
Bert: Box model, my spec
17:36:29 [ChrisL]
17:36:37 [TabAtkins]
17:36:42 [fantasai]
actually, it's Tab+Chris :)
17:36:50 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Add start and end values to float
17:37:03 [fantasai]
ACTION Bert edit box model to add start and end to float
17:37:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-198 - Edit box model to add start and end to float [on Bert Bos - due 2009-12-09].
17:37:11 [fantasai]
Topic: Miscellaneous
17:37:25 [fantasai]
glazou: Got an email from several people about dropping anonrules
17:37:33 [fantasai]
glazou: because they want to implement an html editor
17:37:39 [fantasai]
glazou: same problem I mentioned a long long time ago
17:37:47 [fantasai]
Chris: This is what happens when stuff doesn't display
17:38:06 [fantasai]
Chris: We could have rules that display in the dom, but have an ignore property which says the property is currently ignored
17:38:12 [fantasai]
glazou: It's not only that, chris
17:38:22 [fantasai]
glazou: When the processor sees a style rule it cannot parse, it drops the rule
17:38:29 [fantasai]
glazou: It doesn't appear in the dom at all
17:39:24 [fantasai]
fantasai: You also have the case that in some implementations, if the same property appears more than once in a declaration block, the earlier ones get dropped at parse time (rather than stored and ignored during the cascade)
17:39:38 [fantasai]
17:39:44 [fantasai]
chris: Get a property value as a string
17:39:56 [fantasai]
Tab: Right now the way you do this you have to parse the style sheet yourself with JS
17:40:18 [fantasai]
glazou: The WG discussed that question a very long time ago and the answer from the vendors was we don't want to preserve style rules that we are not using because it impacts the footprint
17:40:30 [fantasai]
glazou: I hope the vendors are going to change their view on this point, otherwise its pointless to discuss it
17:40:36 [fantasai]
glazou: I'm seeing more and more requests on this topic
17:40:49 [fantasai]
glazou: If we really want to have cross-browser applications ... it's a point we need to solve
17:41:15 [fantasai]
sylvaing: The reason this whole thing came up is the whole marking things obsolete at DOM2
17:41:39 [fantasai]
sylvaing: ... defining it as obsolete, or hold off on that until we have a resolution
17:41:47 [fantasai]
glazou: Given the way CSS parsing works, it is unusued
17:42:15 [fantasai]
17:42:45 [fantasai]
sylvaing: Just want to know, is what we're implementing in the future going to be like anonrule, or something else is going to replace it?
17:42:51 [fantasai]
glazou: It is not useful as defined.
17:42:58 [fantasai]
glazou: It's only for at-rules and style-rules that are dropped
17:43:06 [fantasai]
glazou: You can only use it in some cases, not in all
17:43:19 [fantasai]
Tab: It's used for at-rules
17:43:27 [fantasai]
glazou: yes, it's too limited
17:43:34 [fantasai]
glazou: it doesn't help with declarations that are dropped
17:43:45 [fantasai]
sylvaing: Ok, so it's good to drop
17:44:03 [fantasai]
Topic: Snapshot
17:44:55 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Publish Snapshot as CR along with css3-color
17:45:26 [fantasai]
Proposed: Use it to replace /TR/css3-roadmap, also have /TR/CSS3 and /TR/CSS point to it
17:45:38 [fantasai]
Bert: /TR/CSS3 will require the director's approval, the rest should be easy
17:45:49 [fantasai]
Chris: /TR/CSS currently points to 2.1, you intend to replace that?
17:45:51 [fantasai]
fantasai: yes
17:46:08 [fantasai]
fantasai: /TR/CSS2 points to 2.1
17:46:13 [szilles]
+1 for Snapshot CR and roadmap replacement
17:48:09 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Proposal accepted, pending director's approval
17:48:52 [dbaron]
dbaron has joined #css
17:48:56 [fantasai]
I note that /TR/CSS should probably be a redirect, not an alias...
17:49:10 [fantasai]
ACTION fantasai make Disposition of Comments for Snapshot (even if it's empty)
17:49:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-199 - Make Disposition of Comments for Snapshot (even if it's empty) [on Elika Etemad - due 2009-12-09].
17:49:13 [Zakim]
17:49:14 [Zakim]
17:49:15 [fantasai]
Meeting closed.
17:49:16 [Zakim]
17:49:16 [Zakim]
17:49:18 [Zakim]
17:49:18 [Zakim]
17:49:19 [Zakim]
17:49:19 [Zakim]
17:49:20 [dsinger]
17:49:23 [glazou]
glazou has left #css
17:49:29 [smfr]
fantasai: question for you
17:49:30 [Zakim]
17:49:52 [smfr]
fantasai: how do the color tests work?
17:50:00 [smfr]
specifically, what makes fail in webkit?
17:50:31 [fantasai]
smfr: I have no idea, as dbaron. Maybe it passes now; those reports are not the latest latest
17:50:35 [fantasai]
17:50:49 [smfr]
the test says "there should be no red", and that's true in our result
17:50:50 [dbaron]
css3-color is fine for pr if we don't worryr about color-correction
17:50:58 [dbaron]
the system colors thing is just hard to test
17:51:00 [ChrisL]
smfr, could you mail a screenie of what webkit does on that test?
17:51:08 [smfr]
ChrisL: sure
17:51:12 [dbaron]
sorry, couldn't dial in
17:51:28 [dbaron]
can we un-resolve to publish css3-color as CR?
17:51:33 [ChrisL]
dbaron - yes, its hard to test. or rather, its hard to write a test that its possible to fail
17:52:05 [smfr]
ChrisL: sent
17:52:23 [smfr]
we kinda hate system colors anyway, since they are too closely tied to Windows
17:52:26 [fantasai]
dbaron: I'm pretty sure we can
17:52:42 [fantasai]
dbaron: if you say we're ready for PR and we have the implementation reports for it
17:52:54 [dbaron]
except for the sRGB issue, yes, I think we are
17:53:01 [dbaron]
it needs a little arguing about system colors
17:53:25 [dbaron]
which are pretty broken to begin with, and the reason I judged the implementation reports as "failing" is because colors aren't good enough to represent the system appearance
17:53:30 [dbaron]
which is why they're deprecated
17:53:35 [fantasai]
glazou: Can we alter the resolution via email?
17:53:46 [dbaron]
however, we also don't have a draft to publish
17:53:51 [fantasai]
glazou: Or wait for next week?
17:53:53 [dbaron]
there's a whole bunch of comments that I need to address before we publish
17:53:55 [fantasai]
17:53:56 [fantasai]
17:54:04 [dbaron]
even without color-correction
17:54:50 [dbaron]
(it just cuts the number of comments that need to be addressed from 26 to 25
17:54:50 [fantasai]
when do you think you'll have that done by?
17:55:03 [ChrisL]
simon, i don't see anyting there that would indicate a fail
17:55:35 [dbaron]
I probably won't have time this week or next.
17:57:25 [dbaron]
smfr, what makes it fail is that it doesn't actually "look like a raised button... in the operating environment"
17:57:32 [fantasai]
how about mon/tues the week after?
17:58:13 [dbaron]
I can try...
17:58:30 [ChrisL]
david, in that case the test is badly phrased. it would fail on anything that uses non-rectangular buttons for example
17:58:46 [dbaron]
Also, was the publication of css3-transitions, css3-2d-transforms, and css3-3d-transforms permanently cancelled or just delayed?
17:58:49 [fantasai]
dbaron, that'd be great
17:58:58 [fantasai]
dbaron, delayed, I believe
17:58:58 [smfr]
dbaron: ok
17:59:03 [dbaron]
ChrisL, well, it's the *spec* that's badly phrased, really, since the features presume that...
17:59:36 [dbaron]
I suppose maybe the test should say "look like the closest thing to a raised button in the operating environment that can be represented by ..."
18:00:24 [myakura]
2d-transforms and transitions were published yesterday.
18:00:28 [smfr]
dbaron: seems like the worse issue is that ActiveCaption and CaptionText are both black, resulting in unreadable text
18:00:53 [dbaron]
myakura, ah, ok, good
18:01:10 [myakura]
not sure about 3d-transforms, though.
18:01:23 [fantasai]
I don't think we had a resolution to publish 3d-transforms
18:01:24 [dbaron]
I still have a bunch more transitions issues, but we can publish again in a few months...
18:01:29 [fantasai]
18:01:30 [smfr]
right, we have not
18:01:32 [ChrisL]
david - yes, that would be better wording
18:01:56 [fantasai]
smfr, anyone on your side interested in writing a blog post to announce the drafts?
18:02:09 [dbaron]
Also, when Zakim says "that is not a valid passcode", is it possible to find out what passcode it *thinks* I entered?
18:02:37 [fantasai]
smfr, or should I just say that we published new WDs and leave it at that?
18:02:45 [smfr]
i think that's fine
18:03:05 [dbaron]
where does the master copy of the css3-color test suite live now?
18:03:06 [fantasai]
Zakim tends to lock out the conference near the end, but I think that's usually just the last 5 minutes
18:03:27 [dbaron]
fantasai, I couldn't dial in last week because Zakim wouldn't let me in
18:03:42 [TabAtkins]
dbaron: I just called back like 5 times until it let me in.
18:03:51 [dbaron]
last week I tried about 20 times
18:03:55 [TabAtkins]
18:03:59 [dbaron]
and then gave up
18:04:17 [fantasai]
dbaron: It's currently at
18:05:01 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, [Mozilla], in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
18:05:06 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
18:05:08 [Zakim]
Attendees were +95089aaaa, +1.858.216.aabb, +1.408.398.aacc, plinss, glazou, dsinger, +1.408.636.aadd, smfr, Bert, fantasai, sylvaing, +1.281.712.aaee, TabAtkins, +1.650.766.aaff,
18:05:10 [Zakim]
... bradk, ChrisL, +1.408.996.aagg
18:05:19 [fantasai]
oh, heh. I guess I didn't click the right hang-up button
18:15:27 [dbaron]
ok, I checked in new wording for the system colors test
18:15:38 [fantasai]
18:15:39 [dbaron]
is there a way for me to point people to a file as-checked-in to SVN?
18:16:13 [dbaron]
hmm, I guess there's a viewvc
18:16:15 [fantasai]
you mean like ?
18:16:17 [dbaron]
I wonder if it serves HTML
18:16:28 [dbaron]
yes, like that
18:16:31 [fantasai]
18:16:47 [dbaron]
so how does that revised test look?
18:16:51 [dbaron]
The second paragraph is new
18:16:57 [dbaron]
and I tweaked the third-from-last test as a result
18:17:06 [dbaron]
and then I changed the wording of the two button tests
18:17:43 [fantasai]
The third-from-last test looks blank to me...
18:18:36 [smfr]
fantasai: read the text above it
18:18:42 [smfr]
it is confusing though
18:19:01 [fantasai]
18:19:02 [fantasai]
18:19:03 [fantasai]
18:19:16 [fantasai]
dbaron: looks ok to me
18:19:18 [dbaron]
the problem is there's no appropriate required foreground color for that background
18:19:24 [fantasai]
18:19:30 [dbaron]
I made it inset so that it might be less confusing
18:19:36 [fantasai]
Would it make sense to number the tests?
18:19:39 [smfr]
dbaron: maybe put that one last?
18:20:13 [fantasai]
dbaron: let me know when you want a new copy published on
18:20:15 [dbaron]
I can make it width:10%
18:20:21 [fantasai]
dbaron: I'll build it and check it in
18:20:30 [dbaron]
or just 2emx2em
18:20:58 [fantasai]
That plus s/block/square/ should be good
18:21:54 [dbaron]
ok, tweaked
18:24:07 [smfr]
looks ok to me
18:24:16 [smfr]
but i wouldn't fail webkit on the button color ;)
18:27:34 [dbaron]
was the implementatino report I wrote for webkit-mac or webkit-gtk ?
18:27:55 [fantasai]
dbaron: btw, next time you're having trouble calling in, ask me to conference you in
18:28:12 [fantasai]
dbaron: I don't know how to do it here, but I can do it from home for sure
18:28:18 [dbaron]
hmm, looks like webkit-mac
18:28:19 [smfr]
dbaron: SVN r36640 Mac OS X 10.4.11 WebKit 2008-09-19
18:28:34 [smfr]
er, not sure how that url got in there
18:28:40 [fantasai]
18:28:43 [smfr]
Mac OS X, anyway (Tiger!)
18:29:01 [smfr]
the other two webkit failures are related to line height, not rgba colors
18:29:38 [fantasai]
maybe you can patch the tests to not rely on that
18:33:40 [sylvaing]
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18:39:53 [dbaron]
probably the easiest patch for that is to make them use the Ahem font
18:42:38 [dbaron]
though, actually, I think the thing to do just mark WebKit as passing those tests, since it's passing the relevant parts of them
18:42:51 [dbaron]
and it just doesn't do 'line-height: 0' correctly
18:44:07 [dbaron]
I really don't know any other way in CSS 2.1 + css3-color to make two boxes of the same element overlap each other
18:44:14 [dbaron]
which is what that needs to test
18:47:19 [sylvaing]
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19:16:10 [fantasai]
dbaron: That seems reasonable to me. So WebKit and Firefox will get us to PR
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