IRC log of dap on 2009-11-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:44:51 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #dap
- 14:44:51 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/18-dap-irc
- 14:44:53 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 14:44:53 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #dap
- 14:44:55 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be DAP
- 14:44:55 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
- 14:44:56 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
- 14:44:56 [trackbot]
- Date: 18 November 2009
- 14:47:58 [dom]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0116.html
- 14:48:02 [dom]
- Chair: Robin, Frederick
- 14:49:30 [marengo]
- marengo has joined #dap
- 14:52:40 [fhirsch]
- Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
- 14:52:51 [fhirsch]
- Present: Frederick_Hirsch
- 14:54:18 [drogersuk]
- drogersuk has joined #dap
- 14:54:29 [Zakim]
- UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
- 14:54:36 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:54:39 [drogersuk]
- present+ David_Rogers
- 14:54:53 [marengo]
- Present+ Marco_Marengo
- 14:55:15 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 14:55:37 [drogersuk]
- zakim, +??P19 is drogersuk
- 14:55:37 [Zakim]
- sorry, drogersuk, I do not recognize a party named '+??P19'
- 14:55:46 [Zakim]
- +??P20
- 14:56:00 [fhirsch]
- zakim, ??P20 is fhirsch
- 14:56:01 [Zakim]
- +fhirsch; got it
- 14:56:25 [drogersuk]
- zakim, ??P19 is drogersuk
- 14:56:25 [Zakim]
- +drogersuk; got it
- 14:56:46 [Kangchan]
- Present+ Kangchan_Lee
- 14:56:56 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 14:57:00 [fhirsch]
- zakim, [IPcaller] is marengo
- 14:57:01 [Zakim]
- sorry, fhirsch, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
- 14:57:20 [marengo]
- i'm not [IPCaller]
- 14:57:25 [dom]
- Present: DomHazaelMassieux
- 14:57:30 [Zakim]
- +AnssiK
- 14:57:33 [darobin]
- darobin has joined #dap
- 14:57:39 [Zakim]
- + +1.781.534.aaaa
- 14:58:02 [Zakim]
- +Bryan_Sullivan
- 14:58:08 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:58:18 [lgombos]
- Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
- 14:58:45 [darobin]
- Present+ Robin_Berjon
- 14:58:46 [wonsuk]
- zakim, [IPcaller] is wonsuk
- 14:58:47 [Zakim]
- +wonsuk; got it
- 14:58:47 [AnssiK]
- Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
- 14:59:10 [fhirsch]
- zakim, aaaa is lgombos
- 14:59:10 [Zakim]
- +lgombos; got it
- 14:59:21 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:59:56 [Zakim]
- + +358.504.86aabb
- 15:00:24 [ilkka]
- +Present Ilkka_Oksanen
- 15:00:35 [BryanSullivan]
- +present BryanSullivan
- 15:00:44 [Suresh]
- Suresh has joined #dap
- 15:00:49 [Claes]
- Claes has joined #dap
- 15:00:52 [Zakim]
- +maxf
- 15:00:57 [Suresh]
- Present+ Suresh Chitturi
- 15:01:00 [BryanSullivan]
- Present+ BryanSullivan
- 15:01:01 [Zakim]
- +dom
- 15:01:14 [maxf]
- Present+ Max_Froumentin
- 15:02:13 [marcin]
- marcin has joined #dap
- 15:02:34 [marcin]
- Present+ Marcin_Hanclik
- 15:02:45 [Zakim]
- +Claes
- 15:03:07 [Zakim]
- +richt
- 15:03:12 [Dzung_Tran]
- Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
- 15:03:18 [Dzung_Tran]
- Present+ Dzung_Tran
- 15:03:24 [Zakim]
- + +49.208.829.0.aacc
- 15:03:37 [marcin]
- Zakim, aacc is marcin
- 15:03:37 [Zakim]
- +marcin; got it
- 15:03:43 [richt]
- richt has joined #dap
- 15:03:43 [Claes]
- Present+ Claes_Nilsson
- 15:03:50 [richt]
- Present+ Richard_Tibbett
- 15:03:52 [dom]
- Regrets: Thomas_Roessler
- 15:04:08 [dom]
- zakim, who's on the call?
- 15:04:08 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see drogersuk, fhirsch, AnssiK (muted), lgombos, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, darobin, ilkka, maxf, dom, Claes, richt, marcin
- 15:05:01 [Zakim]
- +arve
- 15:05:09 [arve]
- arve has joined #dap
- 15:05:18 [Laura_Arribas]
- Laura_Arribas has joined #dap
- 15:05:40 [darobin]
- Scribe: Arve
- 15:05:45 [darobin]
- ScribeNick: arve
- 15:05:48 [fjh]
- fjh has joined #dap
- 15:05:57 [Laura_Arribas]
- Present+ Laura_Arribas
- 15:06:02 [arve]
- Zakim, who is here
- 15:06:03 [Zakim]
- arve, you need to end that query with '?'
- 15:06:05 [arve]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 15:06:05 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see drogersuk, fhirsch, AnssiK (muted), lgombos, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, darobin, ilkka, maxf, dom, Claes, richt, marcin, arve
- 15:06:07 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see fjh, Laura_Arribas, arve, richt, Dzung_Tran, marcin, Claes, Suresh, darobin, drogersuk, marengo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hendry, MoZ, Kangchan, paddy, fhirsch, AnssiK,
- 15:06:09 [Zakim]
- ... BryanSullivan, wonsuk, tlr, maxf, arg, shepazu, trackbot, lgombos, ilkka, dom
- 15:06:12 [dom]
- zakim, who's noisy?
- 15:06:15 [Zakim]
- + +1.408.216.aadd
- 15:06:23 [Zakim]
- dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P0 (38%), arve (15%), fhirsch (18%), darobin (12%), maxf (17%)
- 15:06:29 [Suresh]
- Suresh just joined the bridge
- 15:06:37 [Zakim]
- + +7.775.41.aaee
- 15:06:41 [dom]
- zakim, aadd is suresh
- 15:06:41 [Zakim]
- +suresh; got it
- 15:06:53 [dom]
- zakim, who's on the call?
- 15:06:53 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see drogersuk, fhirsch, AnssiK (muted), lgombos, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, darobin, ilkka, maxf, dom, Claes, richt, marcin, arve, suresh, +7.775.41.aaee
- 15:06:59 [dom]
- zakim, mute arve
- 15:06:59 [Zakim]
- arve should now be muted
- 15:07:01 [dom]
- zakim, mute maxf
- 15:07:01 [Zakim]
- maxf should now be muted
- 15:07:16 [Zakim]
- +marengo
- 15:07:25 [dom]
- zakim, mute suresh
- 15:07:25 [Zakim]
- suresh should now be muted
- 15:07:28 [Zakim]
- +Ingmar_Kliche
- 15:07:39 [Laura_Arribas]
- Zakim, +7.775.41.aaee is Laura_Arribas
- 15:07:39 [Zakim]
- +Laura_Arribas; got it
- 15:08:13 [arve]
- Yes
- 15:08:31 [arve]
- Topic: Administrativa
- 15:08:43 [dom]
- ack me
- 15:08:48 [fhirsch]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0026.html
- 15:09:06 [ingmar]
- ingmar has joined #dap
- 15:09:25 [ingmar]
- Present+ Ingmar_Kliche
- 15:09:26 [arve]
- fhirsch: Geolocation WG is taking on API for orientation and acceleration data from device
- 15:09:34 [arve]
- q+
- 15:09:39 [arve]
- zakim, unmute
- 15:09:39 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'unmute', arve
- 15:09:42 [arve]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:09:42 [Zakim]
- arve should no longer be muted
- 15:09:43 [fhirsch]
- ack arve
- 15:10:01 [maxf]
- arve: does it mean that that item won't be covered by this WG?
- 15:10:19 [dom]
- zakim, who's noisy?
- 15:10:19 [Suresh]
- q+
- 15:10:24 [BryanSullivan]
- "Acceleration" is not the same as "accelerometer", correct?
- 15:10:28 [BryanSullivan]
- q+
- 15:10:29 [maxf]
- robin: yes
- 15:10:30 [fhirsch]
- ack Suresh
- 15:10:33 [Zakim]
- dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: arve (9%), darobin (15%)
- 15:10:49 [Suresh]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:10:49 [Zakim]
- suresh was not muted, Suresh
- 15:10:51 [nwidell]
- nwidell has joined #dap
- 15:10:52 [dom]
- I think Acceleration is the same as accelerometer
- 15:10:58 [arve]
- robin: This WG will not take on these item
- 15:10:59 [drogersuk]
- q+
- 15:11:23 [dom]
- Regrets+ Paddy_Byers
- 15:11:27 [BryanSullivan]
- Accelerometer should be outside their scope
- 15:12:10 [Dzung_Tran]
- Did someone pass along the Compass spec that I did to the Geolocation WG?
- 15:12:49 [fhirsch]
- q?
- 15:12:55 [fhirsch]
- ack BryanSullivan
- 15:12:58 [darobin]
- q+ to point out that this is a good reason to do anything related to policy outside of the API specs
- 15:13:01 [arve]
- suresh: we need to find a way to handle overlap with other groups
- 15:13:01 [Zakim]
- + +46.1.07.15.aaff
- 15:13:31 [fhirsch]
- q+
- 15:13:43 [arve]
- BryanSullivan: Accelerometer is not the same as acceleration
- 15:13:52 [BryanSullivan]
- Accelerometer is in general an example issue for sensor API's - GeoLocation is a special case.
- 15:13:59 [fhirsch]
- q?
- 15:14:00 [arve]
- we should be careful about geolocation wg expanding their scope
- 15:14:04 [fhirsch]
- ack drogersk
- 15:14:05 [darobin]
- q+ to point out that we've already resolved that "general sensors" is future work
- 15:14:08 [fhirsch]
- ack drogersuk
- 15:14:14 [BryanSullivan]
- q-
- 15:14:21 [dom]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:14:21 [Zakim]
- dom should now be muted
- 15:14:57 [arve]
- drogersuk: How do we logically separate accelerometer and acceleration data?
- 15:15:01 [Suresh]
- We need find a way to integrate other "device APIs" work (e.g. geo-location, accelorometer) in to DAP WG deliverables or at the minimum reference them
- 15:15:31 [dom]
- [as a point of order, I think people would better react on announcements when they're made on the list, rather than waiting for the call to make their points]
- 15:15:55 [fhirsch]
- q?
- 15:16:01 [darobin]
- ack
- 15:16:01 [fhirsch]
- ack darobin
- 15:16:01 [Zakim]
- darobin, you wanted to point out that this is a good reason to do anything related to policy outside of the API specs and to point out that we've already resolved that "general
- 15:16:04 [Zakim]
- ... sensors" is future work
- 15:16:42 [drogersuk]
- my point doesn't seem to have been minuted:
- 15:16:43 [maxf]
- q+ to say that geolocation WG does "orientation" independently of how you measure it
- 15:17:22 [maxf]
- q-
- 15:17:27 [drogersuk]
- drogersuk: We need to look at the clear logical separations between functionality - e.g. geolocation and accelerometer, they are probably independent functions
- 15:18:09 [fhirsch]
- ack fhirsch
- 15:18:11 [nwidell]
- Present+ Niklas_Widell
- 15:19:10 [drogersuk]
- q+
- 15:19:31 [fhirsch]
- ack drogersuk
- 15:19:35 [darobin]
- RB: to Suresh's point, I would like to say that we should simply do policy orthogonally from APIs so that we can also cover other WGs' APIs
- 15:20:35 [darobin]
- RB: to Bryan's I would like to point out that we're not working on generic sensors, so there's no chartered requirements to prevent Geo from doing Accelerometer — if they have the bandwidth then by all means we should be happy to have less to do
- 15:20:42 [maxf]
- Geolocation WG's action item where draft on "orientation and acceleration" is proposed: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/03-geolocation-minutes.html#action05
- 15:20:57 [marcin]
- +1 to orthogonality
- 15:21:14 [Suresh]
- I agree with what Robin just said in separating the policy from APIs
- 15:21:31 [dom]
- [I think that "FUture APIs are not considered a priority" is a sufficient statement to make to clarify the situation]
- 15:21:42 [darobin]
- +1 to dom
- 15:22:10 [marcin]
- +1 to dom & darobin
- 15:22:16 [arve]
- +1 to dom
- 15:22:18 [drogersuk]
- we don't want to discourage people from creating new things though
- 15:22:29 [drogersuk]
- it just won't be discussed as it is not in charter
- 15:22:55 [marcin]
- specifying policy for existing APIs will be a good exercise for the future APIs
- 15:23:53 [fhirsch]
- F2F Scheduling
- 15:24:00 [arve]
- ACTION: dom will update home page to reflect "Future apis are not a priority"
- 15:24:00 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-61 - Will update home page to reflect "Future apis are not a priority" [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2009-11-25].
- 15:24:05 [dom]
- zakim, mute arve
- 15:24:05 [Zakim]
- arve should now be muted
- 15:24:15 [dom]
- ack me
- 15:24:20 [fhirsch]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2009Nov/0011.html
- 15:24:41 [arve]
- topic: f2f
- 15:25:04 [fhirsch]
- http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/prague-f2f-dates/results
- 15:25:34 [Zakim]
- + +0777183aagg
- 15:25:40 [Zakim]
- -drogersuk
- 15:26:03 [dom]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: next WG F2F in Prague on March 16 to 18
- 15:26:12 [arve]
- going once
- 15:26:16 [arve]
- going twice
- 15:26:23 [arve]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:26:23 [Zakim]
- arve should no longer be muted
- 15:26:50 [dom]
- zakim, aagg is drogersuk
- 15:26:50 [Zakim]
- +drogersuk; got it
- 15:27:15 [arve]
- drogersuk: 16-18 might collide with SXSW for some members
- 15:27:33 [dom]
- zakim, mute arve
- 15:27:33 [Zakim]
- arve should now be muted
- 15:27:39 [richt]
- I may go to SXSW but it is not yet confirmed
- 15:28:08 [arve]
- drogersuk: need to avoid overlap with omtp meeting, there seems to be none
- 15:28:44 [arve]
- darobin: only overlap with SXSW currently seems to be drogersuk
- 15:29:02 [arve]
- drogersuk: there will be noe overlap with OMTP
- 15:29:38 [dom]
- ack me
- 15:30:39 [dom]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:30:39 [Zakim]
- dom should now be muted
- 15:31:10 [arve]
- dom: april an alternative
- 15:31:19 [arve]
- arve: would prefer march
- 15:31:25 [fhirsch]
- prefer march
- 15:31:41 [darobin]
- drogersuk: OMTP are always happy to host in London
- 15:31:41 [arve]
- fhirsch: would propose resolution
- 15:32:01 [dom]
- ack me
- 15:32:14 [darobin]
- ACTION: Robin to contact Prague uni to ask if we can meet on 16-18/03
- 15:32:14 [wonsuk]
- +1 for March
- 15:32:14 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-62 - Contact Prague uni to ask if we can meet on 16-18/03 [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-11-25].
- 15:32:31 [dom]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:32:31 [Zakim]
- dom should now be muted
- 15:32:34 [dom]
- zakim, mute arve
- 15:32:34 [Zakim]
- arve should now be muted
- 15:32:50 [arve]
- RESOLUTION: Meeting date set to 16-18/03 2010
- 15:33:13 [arve]
- fhirsch: Is the meeting 2.5 days or 3?
- 15:33:22 [arve]
- +1 to 2.5
- 15:33:29 [drogersuk]
- +1
- 15:33:33 [Claes]
- +1 for 2.5
- 15:33:38 [wonsuk]
- +1 for 2.5
- 15:33:45 [maxf]
- +1
- 15:33:47 [Laura_Arribas]
- +1 for 2.5
- 15:33:47 [marengo]
- +1 for 2.5
- 15:34:08 [drogersuk]
- lol make it 3.5 then
- 15:34:18 [darobin]
- I think 5.5
- 15:34:42 [marcin]
- 0 to 2.5 and/or 3
- 15:34:49 [AnssiK]
- why not 2^2?
- 15:35:20 [arve]
- proposed resolution: meeting will be 2.5 days?
- 15:36:29 [arve]
- RESOLUTION: meeting will be 2.5 days?
- 15:36:37 [darobin]
- RB: we could perhaps start at 11 the first day and finish at 1530 the last day
- 15:36:51 [dom]
- s/days?/days/
- 15:36:53 [arve]
- topic: minutes
- 15:37:18 [dom]
- ack me
- 15:37:20 [arve]
- fhirsch: any objections to approving minutes from last meeting
- 15:38:10 [darobin]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/#roadmap
- 15:38:26 [dom]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:38:26 [Zakim]
- dom should now be muted
- 15:38:35 [fhirsch]
- Policy Requirements Editors Draft updated
- 15:38:50 [arve]
- fhirsch: please review document
- 15:38:55 [fhirsch]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html
- 15:39:34 [arve]
- ACTION: Laura_Arribas to review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html
- 15:39:34 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - Laura_Arribas
- 15:39:50 [dom]
- ACTION: Laura to review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html
- 15:39:50 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-63 - Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html [on Laura Arribas - due 2009-11-25].
- 15:40:00 [Laura_Arribas]
- ACTION: Laura Arribas to review last reqs document
- 15:40:00 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-64 - Arribas to review last reqs document [on Laura Arribas - due 2009-11-25].
- 15:40:43 [arve]
- [?] Contacts API updated to use vCard
- 15:40:44 [BryanSullivan]
- q+
- 15:40:45 [Zakim]
- -ilkka
- 15:40:49 [fhirsch]
- richard notes has updated contacts using vcard, working on security considerations and use cases
- 15:40:50 [darobin]
- richt++
- 15:41:47 [arve]
- topic: policy segment
- 15:41:54 [arve]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:41:54 [Zakim]
- arve should no longer be muted
- 15:41:57 [fhirsch]
- Markup for implicit consent
- 15:42:13 [Suresh]
- richard, can you post the link to the contacts API draft, please?
- 15:42:39 [fhirsch]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0115.html
- 15:42:45 [richt]
- Contacts API Latest Editor's Draft: http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/Overview.html
- 15:43:13 [fhirsch]
- zakim, unumte maxf
- 15:43:13 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'unumte maxf', fhirsch
- 15:43:21 [fhirsch]
- zakim, unmute maxf
- 15:43:21 [Zakim]
- maxf should no longer be muted
- 15:43:39 [maxf]
- ok. I'll call back
- 15:43:47 [maxf]
- no
- 15:43:48 [richt]
- regarding the contacts api: you may need to do a refresh or clear cache. I was having problems with the etags (or something) not refreshing the page.
- 15:43:54 [Zakim]
- -maxf
- 15:44:18 [dom]
- Bryan, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Oct/att-0120/minutes-2009-10-07.html#item06 re agreement to publish FPWD
- 15:44:36 [fhirsch]
- action-47?
- 15:44:36 [trackbot]
- ACTION-47 -- Laura Arribas to provide input on trust model and access control model definitions -- due 2009-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 15:44:36 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/47
- 15:44:54 [Zakim]
- + +47.23.69.aahh
- 15:45:03 [arve]
- zakim, aahh is maxf
- 15:45:03 [Zakim]
- +maxf; got it
- 15:45:59 [arve]
- maxf: I had the action item to explore reusing security from file upload control
- 15:46:04 [nwidell]
- zakim, +46.1.07.15.aaff is nwidell
- 15:46:04 [Zakim]
- +nwidell; got it
- 15:46:05 [arve]
- for implicit user consent
- 15:46:41 [arve]
- maxf: the idea was to figure out if model applied to other apis
- 15:48:39 [arve]
- q+
- 15:48:43 [dom]
- +1 on figuring the process to specify possible markup aspects of our APIs as we go
- 15:49:17 [Suresh]
- q+
- 15:49:36 [arve]
- fhirsch: does this apply for widgets and/or webapps?
- 15:49:43 [arve]
- maxf: will investigate
- 15:49:45 [tlr]
- tlr has joined #dap
- 15:49:52 [darobin]
- ack arve
- 15:50:02 [maxf]
- arve: do we have the necessary expertise in the area?
- 15:50:16 [maxf]
- … just as much about usability
- 15:50:33 [fhirsch]
- frederick asks where we define input types, robin notes either in HTML WG or here as appropriate, can do later
- 15:50:36 [BryanSullivan]
- +1 to no "one shoe fits all"
- 15:50:41 [maxf]
- … I would propose relieveing max of his action item and revisit it later
- 15:50:58 [fhirsch]
- need to define input element for each API , part of API definition
- 15:51:17 [maxf]
- … e.g. file system access. There's a lot about making the API usable. … geolocation ...
- 15:51:23 [fhirsch]
- q?
- 15:51:27 [darobin]
- ack BryanSullivan
- 15:51:29 [fhirsch]
- ack BryanSullivan
- 15:51:31 [Suresh]
- i don't believe this model of input="xx" fits all the use cases,
- 15:51:54 [fhirsch]
- ack Suresh
- 15:52:17 [richt]
- agree with suresh but we need use cases in our documents though to justify that.
- 15:52:21 [BryanSullivan]
- q-
- 15:52:24 [fhirsch]
- max, can you please check status of HTML WG and how process would proceed for defining input types
- 15:52:26 [dom]
- [I think the idea behind MaxF's action was to put some ideas on the table that we can take from when looking at specific APIs]
- 15:53:15 [arve]
- Suresh: too early to agree on the topic
- 15:53:45 [BryanSullivan]
- we need to recognize that a UI-based approach will not address all use cases, e.g. to create accessible webapps or that work well in input/output constrained devices.
- 15:54:13 [maxf]
- q+
- 15:54:16 [arve]
- Suresh: are we restricting ourselves to this, or is it just one of many options
- 15:54:24 [fhirsch]
- ack maxf
- 15:54:27 [arve]
- fhirsch: it's one option, not _the_ option
- 15:54:36 [dom]
- [well, the important thing would be to look at specific use cases that wouldn't be addressed by this, so that we understand better the limits of the approach]
- 15:55:12 [dom]
- [I think the people that are skeptic should do that :) ]
- 15:55:15 [AnssiK]
- <input type="foo"> approach is nice in a sense it provides both programmatic (via DOM API) and declarative (ie. markup) mechanisms
- 15:55:41 [arve]
- +1 to darobin's written proposal
- 15:55:48 [arve]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:55:48 [Zakim]
- arve should no longer be muted
- 15:56:18 [fhirsch]
- action-47?
- 15:56:18 [trackbot]
- ACTION-47 -- Laura Arribas to provide input on trust model and access control model definitions -- due 2009-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 15:56:18 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/47
- 15:56:22 [Dzung_Tran]
- agree with robin, each person who owns their API needs to apply the input/output as you see fit
- 15:56:48 [dom]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0128.html Laura's comparison of BONDI/Nokia trust model and access contrl
- 15:56:57 [dom]
- ScribeNick: dom
- 15:57:38 [dom]
- Topic: Comparison between Nokia and BONDI on trust model and access contrl
- 15:57:45 [dom]
- Laura: both approaches are significantly similar
- 15:58:03 [dom]
- ... the major difference is that Nokia considers the trust manager and the access manager separately
- 15:58:17 [dom]
- ... the access manager makes the final access decision
- 15:58:46 [dom]
- ... BONDI has a different architecture — the trust decision is included in the access manager
- 15:59:08 [darobin]
- q?
- 15:59:22 [dom]
- ... there are also differences in the policies
- 15:59:39 [dom]
- ... Nokia consider 2 polices: trust, and access control
- 15:59:43 [dom]
- s/contrl/control/
- 16:00:11 [dom]
- ... BONDI doesn't make that differenciation and includes everything in the same policy
- 16:00:23 [lgombos]
- have a hard limit, have to drop of, sorry
- 16:00:25 [Zakim]
- -lgombos
- 16:00:44 [dom]
- ... I would welcome reviews on my summary
- 16:00:58 [dom]
- ... I don't have specific ideas on how to integrate in the requirements document
- 16:01:28 [BryanSullivan]
- q+
- 16:01:30 [dom]
- Frederick: I'm not quite sure why BONDI wouldn't consider access control and trust management as separate concerns
- 16:01:36 [richt]
- unfortunately I need to leave the call for another meeting :(
- 16:01:38 [dom]
- ... I need to look more closely in the specs
- 16:01:40 [richt]
- I will catch up with the minutes and follow up on the mailing list.
- 16:01:59 [Dzung_Tran]
- So should we review and discuss on the mail list?
- 16:02:07 [dom]
- Laura: it allows to group permissions in different domains
- 16:02:09 [Zakim]
- -richt
- 16:02:23 [fhirsch]
- ack BryanSullivan
- 16:02:42 [Suresh]
- i don't think trust and access control should be treated separately, a decision needs to be take with both into account
- 16:02:44 [dom]
- Bryan: the distinction between trust and policy in Nokia is essentially a way to organize the data (the files)
- 16:02:53 [dom]
- ... it's equivalent to what we have in BONDI
- 16:03:18 [dom]
- ... they're functionally equivalent, it's just the way the data is organized
- 16:03:31 [BryanSullivan]
- q-
- 16:04:24 [dom]
- Frederick: so Policy Management is out of scope of our work, but it has an impact on our scope of work on policy definitions
- 16:04:33 [dom]
- ... I'll look more closely to the BONDI specs
- 16:04:38 [drogersuk]
- q+
- 16:04:44 [dom]
- ack drog
- 16:05:17 [dom]
- David: in BONDI, we've left open policy management
- 16:06:13 [dom]
- ... In the discussions on the mailing list, I'm not sure what are the alternatives on defining a policy framework at some point (e.g. for filesystems API)
- 16:06:32 [dom]
- Frederick: could you send an email on that topic?
- 16:06:34 [BryanSullivan]
- q+
- 16:06:38 [dom]
- David: I've done that already
- 16:06:43 [fhirsch]
- ack BryanSullivan
- 16:06:46 [fhirsch]
- q+
- 16:07:04 [dom]
- Bryan: the management of policy (storage, updates, user decision involvement) is out of scope
- 16:07:21 [dom]
- ... the definition of a policy file, an expression of a policy as a set of API permissions etc, should be in scope
- 16:07:34 [dom]
- ... it's not directly influenced by policy management
- 16:07:46 [dom]
- ... it's more dependent on APIs and their security aspects
- 16:08:04 [fhirsch]
- ack fhirsch
- 16:08:11 [dom]
- ... if we go deeper into UI considerations, we also need to take into account enabling a similar set of features in a policy-based approach
- 16:08:29 [dom]
- Frederick: I keep coming back to the question of who's writing the policy
- 16:08:49 [dom]
- ... if you don't have a model of this, I think it's hard to understand the use cases for the policy framework
- 16:09:18 [dom]
- Topic: APIs
- 16:09:28 [dom]
- Robin: we've discussed making Capture a priority item for the roadmap
- 16:09:35 [drogersuk]
- correction to minutes above: For people who are saying we don't need policy - I don't see the alternative once you've run out all the ways of designing the API securely apart from deferring the decision to the user - I'd like to see input to this because it will help the FileAPI and FileSystem API discussions progress
- 16:09:46 [dom]
- PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Make capture (Video/Photo/Sound) a priority API
- 16:09:58 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: Make capture (Video/Photo/Sound) a priority API
- 16:10:25 [dom]
- Robin: within the priority documents, I would like to assign action items for people to come up with first editors drafts
- 16:10:49 [dom]
- ... we already have one for contacts (Richard), but everyone is welcomed to help
- 16:11:02 [dom]
- ... Richard has already started working on Calendar, but would be helpful if he got help
- 16:11:06 [dom]
- ... what about messaging?
- 16:11:24 [dom]
- Claes: I'm interested to take on that
- 16:11:31 [dom]
- Robin: Daniel Coloma was also interested
- 16:11:39 [Dzung_Tran]
- I can take on Capture
- 16:11:48 [fhirsch]
- q?
- 16:11:51 [fhirsch]
- q+
- 16:11:55 [dom]
- ACTION: Claes to provide an editors draft of the Messaging API - due in two weeks
- 16:11:55 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-65 - provide an editors draft of the Messaging API [on Claes Nilsson - due 1970-01-01].
- 16:11:59 [dom]
- ack f
- 16:12:13 [fhirsch]
- q?
- 16:12:13 [dom]
- Frederick: suresh, did you mention you were interested in Calendar?
- 16:12:23 [dom]
- Suresh: yes, but RObin said Richard was working on it
- 16:12:24 [nwidell]
- ACtion-65 should be on nwidell
- 16:12:27 [dom]
- ... I'll work with him
- 16:12:35 [dom]
- ACTION-65?
- 16:12:35 [trackbot]
- ACTION-65 -- Claes Nilsson to provide an editors draft of the Messaging API -- due 1970-01-01 -- OPEN
- 16:12:35 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/65
- 16:13:09 [dom]
- s/Claes/Niklas/
- 16:13:10 [dom]
- s/Claes/Niklas/
- 16:13:20 [ingmar]
- q+
- 16:13:23 [dom]
- Robin: what about Capture? Dzung?
- 16:13:28 [Dzung_Tran]
- Sure
- 16:13:49 [dom]
- ACTION: Dzung to provide an editors draft of the Capture API
- 16:13:49 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-66 - Provide an editors draft of the Capture API [on Dzung Tran - due 2009-11-25].
- 16:13:59 [darobin]
- ack i
- 16:14:07 [dom]
- ack ingmar
- 16:14:14 [dom]
- Ingmar: I'm happy to help on Capture as well
- 16:14:42 [dom]
- Robin: if any of the editors don't have access to CVS, please contact Dom (but not DOM)
- 16:14:49 [dom]
- RObin: what about FileSystems?
- 16:15:03 [dom]
- ... I'll take a stab at it
- 16:15:15 [dom]
- ACTION: Robin to provide a first editors draft of the FileSystems API
- 16:15:15 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-67 - Provide a first editors draft of the FileSystems API [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-11-25].
- 16:15:25 [dom]
- Bryan: I'll provide feedback on it
- 16:15:47 [dom]
- Robin: We've had sysInfo in CVS for a while
- 16:15:55 [dom]
- ... please provide feedback as soon as possible
- 16:16:00 [dom]
- ... so that we can decide to move to FPWD
- 16:16:04 [maxf]
- q+
- 16:16:11 [dom]
- Bryan: I've provided input FWIW
- 16:16:47 [Dzung_Tran]
- Sorry what is FWIW?
- 16:16:57 [dom]
- ACTION-58?
- 16:16:57 [trackbot]
- ACTION-58 -- Bryan Sullivan to make a concrete proposal with a vocabulary-based approach to system & events, with a few examples (e.g. battery level) -- due 2009-11-11 -- OPEN
- 16:16:57 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/58
- 16:17:05 [tlr]
- tlr has joined #dap
- 16:17:40 [dom]
- Bryan: regarding the FWPD of requirements, it wasn't clear to me that we had reached consensus on the content of the document
- 16:17:53 [dom]
- ... I'd like to see my set of requirements integrated in the document
- 16:18:09 [dom]
- ... it looks like new requirements are impeded to get in the document
- 16:18:26 [fhirsch]
- FPWD simply means to publish draft which is subject to change
- 16:18:26 [dom]
- Robin: as an editor, I was hoping you would provide help in adding your reqs there
- 16:18:58 [dom]
- ... put it in the document — that will make it more likely for people to react :)
- 16:19:16 [fhirsch]
- q+
- 16:19:26 [dom]
- David: maybe there should be a separate call for editors to help them set them up
- 16:20:07 [dom]
- Robin: I'm not seeing that people should always put their feedback in the doc; but when not getting feedback, it can be a useful tool
- 16:20:15 [darobin]
- s/seeing/saying/
- 16:20:20 [dom]
- q?
- 16:20:21 [BryanSullivan]
- q-
- 16:20:27 [fhirsch]
- q-
- 16:20:41 [dom]
- Robin: regarding helping editors, it would be helpful to know what the questions are
- 16:20:56 [dom]
- ... send me emails, and then I can figure out the best format to help people out
- 16:20:58 [dom]
- ack maxf
- 16:21:20 [dom]
- Maxf: you've listed the 4 priority APIs documents, but also listed capture which is in the "other" category
- 16:21:29 [dom]
- Robin: we've just resolved to make it a priority
- 16:21:38 [schittur2]
- schittur2 has joined #dap
- 16:21:57 [dom]
- MaxF: but what happens with the other ones?
- 16:22:02 [dom]
- ... I'm in the editors pool
- 16:22:21 [dom]
- ... I could either help on the priority ones, or start working on another one
- 16:22:40 [dom]
- Robin: it's perfectly fine to start on a new one; we might just spend less time discussing it
- 16:22:52 [dom]
- MaxF: who wrote Sys and Events?
- 16:22:55 [dom]
- Robin: Dzung
- 16:23:03 [dom]
- Maxf: I'd like to help with that one
- 16:23:11 [drogersuk]
- just to understand, is this based on any of the input?
- 16:23:16 [dom]
- Robin: please coordinate on the list
- 16:23:28 [Dzung_Tran]
- Sure, no problem
- 16:23:47 [dom]
- David: is SysInfo based on any of the input doc?
- 16:23:58 [dom]
- Robin: I think it's something Dzung came up with
- 16:24:27 [Dzung_Tran]
- Yes, it is based on Nokia, BONDI, ..
- 16:24:32 [dom]
- David: Would Dzung be willing to look at the input to the charter and integrate it in SysInfo
- 16:24:48 [drogersuk]
- ok thanks
- 16:24:48 [dom]
- Robin: Dzung says on IRC it's based on Nokia and BONDI
- 16:24:54 [dom]
- ... it probably took them into account
- 16:25:00 [dom]
- David: Ok, just wanted to clarify that point
- 16:25:04 [Zakim]
- -drogersuk
- 16:25:22 [dom]
- [@@@]: I'm seeing a lot of regrets for next week
- 16:25:29 [dom]
- Robin: we might have to cancel
- 16:25:36 [Dzung_Tran]
- I think we should cancel
- 16:25:36 [Zakim]
- -Claes
- 16:25:40 [dom]
- [xxx]: can't we make a decision now?
- 16:25:53 [dom]
- +1 on canceling
- 16:25:57 [fhirsch]
- need to decide in advance so people clan plan
- 16:26:04 [fhirsch]
- s/clan/can
- 16:26:28 [Dzung_Tran]
- Most people in US are out on Thanksgiving holiday
- 16:26:40 [dom]
- RESOLVED: no meeting next week, next meeting on Dec 2
- 16:26:58 [dom]
- i/[@@@]/Topic: Next Meeting/
- 16:27:02 [Zakim]
- -Bryan_Sullivan
- 16:27:11 [dom]
- [adjourned]
- 16:27:19 [nwidell]
- -nwidell
- 16:27:19 [Dzung_Tran]
- l8r
- 16:27:20 [Zakim]
- -maxf
- 16:27:23 [Dzung_Tran]
- -
- 16:27:24 [marengo]
- /me bye
- 16:27:24 [Zakim]
- -suresh
- 16:27:25 [marcin]
- bye bye
- 16:27:28 [dom]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/18-dap-minutes.html dom
- 16:27:38 [Zakim]
- -nwidell
- 16:27:41 [Zakim]
- -dom
- 16:27:42 [Zakim]
- -marcin
- 16:27:42 [Zakim]
- -Laura_Arribas
- 16:27:43 [Zakim]
- -darobin
- 16:27:43 [Zakim]
- -marengo
- 16:27:46 [Zakim]
- -fhirsch
- 16:27:49 [Zakim]
- -Ingmar_Kliche
- 16:27:52 [Zakim]
- -wonsuk
- 16:27:55 [AnssiK]
- AnssiK has left #dap
- 16:28:00 [wonsuk]
- wonsuk has left #dap
- 16:28:31 [Zakim]
- -AnssiK
- 16:35:01 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, arve, in UW_DAP()10:00AM
- 16:35:02 [Zakim]
- UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
- 16:35:06 [Zakim]
- Attendees were fhirsch, drogersuk, AnssiK, +1.781.534.aaaa, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, lgombos, darobin, maxf, dom, ilkka, Claes, richt, +49.208.829.0.aacc, marcin, arve,
- 16:35:08 [Zakim]
- ... +1.408.216.aadd, suresh, marengo, Ingmar_Kliche, Laura_Arribas, +0777183aagg, +47.23.69.aahh, nwidell
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