IRC log of dap on 2009-11-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:44:51 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
14:44:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/18-dap-irc
14:44:53 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:44:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
14:44:55 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
14:44:55 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
14:44:56 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
14:44:56 [trackbot]
Date: 18 November 2009
14:47:58 [dom]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0116.html
14:48:02 [dom]
Chair: Robin, Frederick
14:49:30 [marengo]
marengo has joined #dap
14:52:40 [fhirsch]
Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
14:52:51 [fhirsch]
Present: Frederick_Hirsch
14:54:18 [drogersuk]
drogersuk has joined #dap
14:54:29 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:54:36 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:54:39 [drogersuk]
present+ David_Rogers
14:54:53 [marengo]
Present+ Marco_Marengo
14:55:15 [Zakim]
+??P19
14:55:37 [drogersuk]
zakim, +??P19 is drogersuk
14:55:37 [Zakim]
sorry, drogersuk, I do not recognize a party named '+??P19'
14:55:46 [Zakim]
+??P20
14:56:00 [fhirsch]
zakim, ??P20 is fhirsch
14:56:01 [Zakim]
+fhirsch; got it
14:56:25 [drogersuk]
zakim, ??P19 is drogersuk
14:56:25 [Zakim]
+drogersuk; got it
14:56:46 [Kangchan]
Present+ Kangchan_Lee
14:56:56 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
14:57:00 [fhirsch]
zakim, [IPcaller] is marengo
14:57:01 [Zakim]
sorry, fhirsch, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
14:57:20 [marengo]
i'm not [IPCaller]
14:57:25 [dom]
Present: DomHazaelMassieux
14:57:30 [Zakim]
+AnssiK
14:57:33 [darobin]
darobin has joined #dap
14:57:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.534.aaaa
14:58:02 [Zakim]
+Bryan_Sullivan
14:58:08 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:58:18 [lgombos]
Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
14:58:45 [darobin]
Present+ Robin_Berjon
14:58:46 [wonsuk]
zakim, [IPcaller] is wonsuk
14:58:47 [Zakim]
+wonsuk; got it
14:58:47 [AnssiK]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:59:10 [fhirsch]
zakim, aaaa is lgombos
14:59:10 [Zakim]
+lgombos; got it
14:59:21 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:59:56 [Zakim]
+ +358.504.86aabb
15:00:24 [ilkka]
+Present Ilkka_Oksanen
15:00:35 [BryanSullivan]
+present BryanSullivan
15:00:44 [Suresh]
Suresh has joined #dap
15:00:49 [Claes]
Claes has joined #dap
15:00:52 [Zakim]
+maxf
15:00:57 [Suresh]
Present+ Suresh Chitturi
15:01:00 [BryanSullivan]
Present+ BryanSullivan
15:01:01 [Zakim]
+dom
15:01:14 [maxf]
Present+ Max_Froumentin
15:02:13 [marcin]
marcin has joined #dap
15:02:34 [marcin]
Present+ Marcin_Hanclik
15:02:45 [Zakim]
+Claes
15:03:07 [Zakim]
+richt
15:03:12 [Dzung_Tran]
Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
15:03:18 [Dzung_Tran]
Present+ Dzung_Tran
15:03:24 [Zakim]
+ +49.208.829.0.aacc
15:03:37 [marcin]
Zakim, aacc is marcin
15:03:37 [Zakim]
+marcin; got it
15:03:43 [richt]
richt has joined #dap
15:03:43 [Claes]
Present+ Claes_Nilsson
15:03:50 [richt]
Present+ Richard_Tibbett
15:03:52 [dom]
Regrets: Thomas_Roessler
15:04:08 [dom]
zakim, who's on the call?
15:04:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see drogersuk, fhirsch, AnssiK (muted), lgombos, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, darobin, ilkka, maxf, dom, Claes, richt, marcin
15:05:01 [Zakim]
+arve
15:05:09 [arve]
arve has joined #dap
15:05:18 [Laura_Arribas]
Laura_Arribas has joined #dap
15:05:40 [darobin]
Scribe: Arve
15:05:45 [darobin]
ScribeNick: arve
15:05:48 [fjh]
fjh has joined #dap
15:05:57 [Laura_Arribas]
Present+ Laura_Arribas
15:06:02 [arve]
Zakim, who is here
15:06:03 [Zakim]
arve, you need to end that query with '?'
15:06:05 [arve]
Zakim, who is here?
15:06:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see drogersuk, fhirsch, AnssiK (muted), lgombos, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, darobin, ilkka, maxf, dom, Claes, richt, marcin, arve
15:06:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see fjh, Laura_Arribas, arve, richt, Dzung_Tran, marcin, Claes, Suresh, darobin, drogersuk, marengo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hendry, MoZ, Kangchan, paddy, fhirsch, AnssiK,
15:06:09 [Zakim]
... BryanSullivan, wonsuk, tlr, maxf, arg, shepazu, trackbot, lgombos, ilkka, dom
15:06:12 [dom]
zakim, who's noisy?
15:06:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.216.aadd
15:06:23 [Zakim]
dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P0 (38%), arve (15%), fhirsch (18%), darobin (12%), maxf (17%)
15:06:29 [Suresh]
Suresh just joined the bridge
15:06:37 [Zakim]
+ +7.775.41.aaee
15:06:41 [dom]
zakim, aadd is suresh
15:06:41 [Zakim]
+suresh; got it
15:06:53 [dom]
zakim, who's on the call?
15:06:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see drogersuk, fhirsch, AnssiK (muted), lgombos, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, darobin, ilkka, maxf, dom, Claes, richt, marcin, arve, suresh, +7.775.41.aaee
15:06:59 [dom]
zakim, mute arve
15:06:59 [Zakim]
arve should now be muted
15:07:01 [dom]
zakim, mute maxf
15:07:01 [Zakim]
maxf should now be muted
15:07:16 [Zakim]
+marengo
15:07:25 [dom]
zakim, mute suresh
15:07:25 [Zakim]
suresh should now be muted
15:07:28 [Zakim]
+Ingmar_Kliche
15:07:39 [Laura_Arribas]
Zakim, +7.775.41.aaee is Laura_Arribas
15:07:39 [Zakim]
+Laura_Arribas; got it
15:08:13 [arve]
Yes
15:08:31 [arve]
Topic: Administrativa
15:08:43 [dom]
ack me
15:08:48 [fhirsch]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0026.html
15:09:06 [ingmar]
ingmar has joined #dap
15:09:25 [ingmar]
Present+ Ingmar_Kliche
15:09:26 [arve]
fhirsch: Geolocation WG is taking on API for orientation and acceleration data from device
15:09:34 [arve]
q+
15:09:39 [arve]
zakim, unmute
15:09:39 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unmute', arve
15:09:42 [arve]
zakim, unmute me
15:09:42 [Zakim]
arve should no longer be muted
15:09:43 [fhirsch]
ack arve
15:10:01 [maxf]
arve: does it mean that that item won't be covered by this WG?
15:10:19 [dom]
zakim, who's noisy?
15:10:19 [Suresh]
q+
15:10:24 [BryanSullivan]
"Acceleration" is not the same as "accelerometer", correct?
15:10:28 [BryanSullivan]
q+
15:10:29 [maxf]
robin: yes
15:10:30 [fhirsch]
ack Suresh
15:10:33 [Zakim]
dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: arve (9%), darobin (15%)
15:10:49 [Suresh]
zakim, unmute me
15:10:49 [Zakim]
suresh was not muted, Suresh
15:10:51 [nwidell]
nwidell has joined #dap
15:10:52 [dom]
I think Acceleration is the same as accelerometer
15:10:58 [arve]
robin: This WG will not take on these item
15:10:59 [drogersuk]
q+
15:11:23 [dom]
Regrets+ Paddy_Byers
15:11:27 [BryanSullivan]
Accelerometer should be outside their scope
15:12:10 [Dzung_Tran]
Did someone pass along the Compass spec that I did to the Geolocation WG?
15:12:49 [fhirsch]
q?
15:12:55 [fhirsch]
ack BryanSullivan
15:12:58 [darobin]
q+ to point out that this is a good reason to do anything related to policy outside of the API specs
15:13:01 [arve]
suresh: we need to find a way to handle overlap with other groups
15:13:01 [Zakim]
+ +46.1.07.15.aaff
15:13:31 [fhirsch]
q+
15:13:43 [arve]
BryanSullivan: Accelerometer is not the same as acceleration
15:13:52 [BryanSullivan]
Accelerometer is in general an example issue for sensor API's - GeoLocation is a special case.
15:13:59 [fhirsch]
q?
15:14:00 [arve]
we should be careful about geolocation wg expanding their scope
15:14:04 [fhirsch]
ack drogersk
15:14:05 [darobin]
q+ to point out that we've already resolved that "general sensors" is future work
15:14:08 [fhirsch]
ack drogersuk
15:14:14 [BryanSullivan]
q-
15:14:21 [dom]
zakim, mute me
15:14:21 [Zakim]
dom should now be muted
15:14:57 [arve]
drogersuk: How do we logically separate accelerometer and acceleration data?
15:15:01 [Suresh]
We need find a way to integrate other "device APIs" work (e.g. geo-location, accelorometer) in to DAP WG deliverables or at the minimum reference them
15:15:31 [dom]
[as a point of order, I think people would better react on announcements when they're made on the list, rather than waiting for the call to make their points]
15:15:55 [fhirsch]
q?
15:16:01 [darobin]
ack
15:16:01 [fhirsch]
ack darobin
15:16:01 [Zakim]
darobin, you wanted to point out that this is a good reason to do anything related to policy outside of the API specs and to point out that we've already resolved that "general
15:16:04 [Zakim]
... sensors" is future work
15:16:42 [drogersuk]
my point doesn't seem to have been minuted:
15:16:43 [maxf]
q+ to say that geolocation WG does "orientation" independently of how you measure it
15:17:22 [maxf]
q-
15:17:27 [drogersuk]
drogersuk: We need to look at the clear logical separations between functionality - e.g. geolocation and accelerometer, they are probably independent functions
15:18:09 [fhirsch]
ack fhirsch
15:18:11 [nwidell]
Present+ Niklas_Widell
15:19:10 [drogersuk]
q+
15:19:31 [fhirsch]
ack drogersuk
15:19:35 [darobin]
RB: to Suresh's point, I would like to say that we should simply do policy orthogonally from APIs so that we can also cover other WGs' APIs
15:20:35 [darobin]
RB: to Bryan's I would like to point out that we're not working on generic sensors, so there's no chartered requirements to prevent Geo from doing Accelerometer — if they have the bandwidth then by all means we should be happy to have less to do
15:20:42 [maxf]
Geolocation WG's action item where draft on "orientation and acceleration" is proposed: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/03-geolocation-minutes.html#action05
15:20:57 [marcin]
+1 to orthogonality
15:21:14 [Suresh]
I agree with what Robin just said in separating the policy from APIs
15:21:31 [dom]
[I think that "FUture APIs are not considered a priority" is a sufficient statement to make to clarify the situation]
15:21:42 [darobin]
+1 to dom
15:22:10 [marcin]
+1 to dom & darobin
15:22:16 [arve]
+1 to dom
15:22:18 [drogersuk]
we don't want to discourage people from creating new things though
15:22:29 [drogersuk]
it just won't be discussed as it is not in charter
15:22:55 [marcin]
specifying policy for existing APIs will be a good exercise for the future APIs
15:23:53 [fhirsch]
F2F Scheduling
15:24:00 [arve]
ACTION: dom will update home page to reflect "Future apis are not a priority"
15:24:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-61 - Will update home page to reflect "Future apis are not a priority" [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2009-11-25].
15:24:05 [dom]
zakim, mute arve
15:24:05 [Zakim]
arve should now be muted
15:24:15 [dom]
ack me
15:24:20 [fhirsch]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2009Nov/0011.html
15:24:41 [arve]
topic: f2f
15:25:04 [fhirsch]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/prague-f2f-dates/results
15:25:34 [Zakim]
+ +0777183aagg
15:25:40 [Zakim]
-drogersuk
15:26:03 [dom]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: next WG F2F in Prague on March 16 to 18
15:26:12 [arve]
going once
15:26:16 [arve]
going twice
15:26:23 [arve]
zakim, unmute me
15:26:23 [Zakim]
arve should no longer be muted
15:26:50 [dom]
zakim, aagg is drogersuk
15:26:50 [Zakim]
+drogersuk; got it
15:27:15 [arve]
drogersuk: 16-18 might collide with SXSW for some members
15:27:33 [dom]
zakim, mute arve
15:27:33 [Zakim]
arve should now be muted
15:27:39 [richt]
I may go to SXSW but it is not yet confirmed
15:28:08 [arve]
drogersuk: need to avoid overlap with omtp meeting, there seems to be none
15:28:44 [arve]
darobin: only overlap with SXSW currently seems to be drogersuk
15:29:02 [arve]
drogersuk: there will be noe overlap with OMTP
15:29:38 [dom]
ack me
15:30:39 [dom]
zakim, mute me
15:30:39 [Zakim]
dom should now be muted
15:31:10 [arve]
dom: april an alternative
15:31:19 [arve]
arve: would prefer march
15:31:25 [fhirsch]
prefer march
15:31:41 [darobin]
drogersuk: OMTP are always happy to host in London
15:31:41 [arve]
fhirsch: would propose resolution
15:32:01 [dom]
ack me
15:32:14 [darobin]
ACTION: Robin to contact Prague uni to ask if we can meet on 16-18/03
15:32:14 [wonsuk]
+1 for March
15:32:14 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-62 - Contact Prague uni to ask if we can meet on 16-18/03 [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-11-25].
15:32:31 [dom]
zakim, mute me
15:32:31 [Zakim]
dom should now be muted
15:32:34 [dom]
zakim, mute arve
15:32:34 [Zakim]
arve should now be muted
15:32:50 [arve]
RESOLUTION: Meeting date set to 16-18/03 2010
15:33:13 [arve]
fhirsch: Is the meeting 2.5 days or 3?
15:33:22 [arve]
+1 to 2.5
15:33:29 [drogersuk]
+1
15:33:33 [Claes]
+1 for 2.5
15:33:38 [wonsuk]
+1 for 2.5
15:33:45 [maxf]
+1
15:33:47 [Laura_Arribas]
+1 for 2.5
15:33:47 [marengo]
+1 for 2.5
15:34:08 [drogersuk]
lol make it 3.5 then
15:34:18 [darobin]
I think 5.5
15:34:42 [marcin]
0 to 2.5 and/or 3
15:34:49 [AnssiK]
why not 2^2?
15:35:20 [arve]
proposed resolution: meeting will be 2.5 days?
15:36:29 [arve]
RESOLUTION: meeting will be 2.5 days?
15:36:37 [darobin]
RB: we could perhaps start at 11 the first day and finish at 1530 the last day
15:36:51 [dom]
s/days?/days/
15:36:53 [arve]
topic: minutes
15:37:18 [dom]
ack me
15:37:20 [arve]
fhirsch: any objections to approving minutes from last meeting
15:38:10 [darobin]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/#roadmap
15:38:26 [dom]
zakim, mute me
15:38:26 [Zakim]
dom should now be muted
15:38:35 [fhirsch]
Policy Requirements Editors Draft updated
15:38:50 [arve]
fhirsch: please review document
15:38:55 [fhirsch]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html
15:39:34 [arve]
ACTION: Laura_Arribas to review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html
15:39:34 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Laura_Arribas
15:39:50 [dom]
ACTION: Laura to review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html
15:39:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-63 - Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html [on Laura Arribas - due 2009-11-25].
15:40:00 [Laura_Arribas]
ACTION: Laura Arribas to review last reqs document
15:40:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-64 - Arribas to review last reqs document [on Laura Arribas - due 2009-11-25].
15:40:43 [arve]
[?] Contacts API updated to use vCard
15:40:44 [BryanSullivan]
q+
15:40:45 [Zakim]
-ilkka
15:40:49 [fhirsch]
richard notes has updated contacts using vcard, working on security considerations and use cases
15:40:50 [darobin]
richt++
15:41:47 [arve]
topic: policy segment
15:41:54 [arve]
Zakim, unmute me
15:41:54 [Zakim]
arve should no longer be muted
15:41:57 [fhirsch]
Markup for implicit consent
15:42:13 [Suresh]
richard, can you post the link to the contacts API draft, please?
15:42:39 [fhirsch]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0115.html
15:42:45 [richt]
Contacts API Latest Editor's Draft: http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/Overview.html
15:43:13 [fhirsch]
zakim, unumte maxf
15:43:13 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unumte maxf', fhirsch
15:43:21 [fhirsch]
zakim, unmute maxf
15:43:21 [Zakim]
maxf should no longer be muted
15:43:39 [maxf]
ok. I'll call back
15:43:47 [maxf]
no
15:43:48 [richt]
regarding the contacts api: you may need to do a refresh or clear cache. I was having problems with the etags (or something) not refreshing the page.
15:43:54 [Zakim]
-maxf
15:44:18 [dom]
Bryan, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Oct/att-0120/minutes-2009-10-07.html#item06 re agreement to publish FPWD
15:44:36 [fhirsch]
action-47?
15:44:36 [trackbot]
ACTION-47 -- Laura Arribas to provide input on trust model and access control model definitions -- due 2009-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:44:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/47
15:44:54 [Zakim]
+ +47.23.69.aahh
15:45:03 [arve]
zakim, aahh is maxf
15:45:03 [Zakim]
+maxf; got it
15:45:59 [arve]
maxf: I had the action item to explore reusing security from file upload control
15:46:04 [nwidell]
zakim, +46.1.07.15.aaff is nwidell
15:46:04 [Zakim]
+nwidell; got it
15:46:05 [arve]
for implicit user consent
15:46:41 [arve]
maxf: the idea was to figure out if model applied to other apis
15:48:39 [arve]
q+
15:48:43 [dom]
+1 on figuring the process to specify possible markup aspects of our APIs as we go
15:49:17 [Suresh]
q+
15:49:36 [arve]
fhirsch: does this apply for widgets and/or webapps?
15:49:43 [arve]
maxf: will investigate
15:49:45 [tlr]
tlr has joined #dap
15:49:52 [darobin]
ack arve
15:50:02 [maxf]
arve: do we have the necessary expertise in the area?
15:50:16 [maxf]
… just as much about usability
15:50:33 [fhirsch]
frederick asks where we define input types, robin notes either in HTML WG or here as appropriate, can do later
15:50:36 [BryanSullivan]
+1 to no "one shoe fits all"
15:50:41 [maxf]
… I would propose relieveing max of his action item and revisit it later
15:50:58 [fhirsch]
need to define input element for each API , part of API definition
15:51:17 [maxf]
… e.g. file system access. There's a lot about making the API usable. … geolocation ...
15:51:23 [fhirsch]
q?
15:51:27 [darobin]
ack BryanSullivan
15:51:29 [fhirsch]
ack BryanSullivan
15:51:31 [Suresh]
i don't believe this model of input="xx" fits all the use cases,
15:51:54 [fhirsch]
ack Suresh
15:52:17 [richt]
agree with suresh but we need use cases in our documents though to justify that.
15:52:21 [BryanSullivan]
q-
15:52:24 [fhirsch]
max, can you please check status of HTML WG and how process would proceed for defining input types
15:52:26 [dom]
[I think the idea behind MaxF's action was to put some ideas on the table that we can take from when looking at specific APIs]
15:53:15 [arve]
Suresh: too early to agree on the topic
15:53:45 [BryanSullivan]
we need to recognize that a UI-based approach will not address all use cases, e.g. to create accessible webapps or that work well in input/output constrained devices.
15:54:13 [maxf]
q+
15:54:16 [arve]
Suresh: are we restricting ourselves to this, or is it just one of many options
15:54:24 [fhirsch]
ack maxf
15:54:27 [arve]
fhirsch: it's one option, not _the_ option
15:54:36 [dom]
[well, the important thing would be to look at specific use cases that wouldn't be addressed by this, so that we understand better the limits of the approach]
15:55:12 [dom]
[I think the people that are skeptic should do that :) ]
15:55:15 [AnssiK]
<input type="foo"> approach is nice in a sense it provides both programmatic (via DOM API) and declarative (ie. markup) mechanisms
15:55:41 [arve]
+1 to darobin's written proposal
15:55:48 [arve]
Zakim, unmute me
15:55:48 [Zakim]
arve should no longer be muted
15:56:18 [fhirsch]
action-47?
15:56:18 [trackbot]
ACTION-47 -- Laura Arribas to provide input on trust model and access control model definitions -- due 2009-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:56:18 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/47
15:56:22 [Dzung_Tran]
agree with robin, each person who owns their API needs to apply the input/output as you see fit
15:56:48 [dom]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0128.html Laura's comparison of BONDI/Nokia trust model and access contrl
15:56:57 [dom]
ScribeNick: dom
15:57:38 [dom]
Topic: Comparison between Nokia and BONDI on trust model and access contrl
15:57:45 [dom]
Laura: both approaches are significantly similar
15:58:03 [dom]
... the major difference is that Nokia considers the trust manager and the access manager separately
15:58:17 [dom]
... the access manager makes the final access decision
15:58:46 [dom]
... BONDI has a different architecture — the trust decision is included in the access manager
15:59:08 [darobin]
q?
15:59:22 [dom]
... there are also differences in the policies
15:59:39 [dom]
... Nokia consider 2 polices: trust, and access control
15:59:43 [dom]
s/contrl/control/
16:00:11 [dom]
... BONDI doesn't make that differenciation and includes everything in the same policy
16:00:23 [lgombos]
have a hard limit, have to drop of, sorry
16:00:25 [Zakim]
-lgombos
16:00:44 [dom]
... I would welcome reviews on my summary
16:00:58 [dom]
... I don't have specific ideas on how to integrate in the requirements document
16:01:28 [BryanSullivan]
q+
16:01:30 [dom]
Frederick: I'm not quite sure why BONDI wouldn't consider access control and trust management as separate concerns
16:01:36 [richt]
unfortunately I need to leave the call for another meeting :(
16:01:38 [dom]
... I need to look more closely in the specs
16:01:40 [richt]
I will catch up with the minutes and follow up on the mailing list.
16:01:59 [Dzung_Tran]
So should we review and discuss on the mail list?
16:02:07 [dom]
Laura: it allows to group permissions in different domains
16:02:09 [Zakim]
-richt
16:02:23 [fhirsch]
ack BryanSullivan
16:02:42 [Suresh]
i don't think trust and access control should be treated separately, a decision needs to be take with both into account
16:02:44 [dom]
Bryan: the distinction between trust and policy in Nokia is essentially a way to organize the data (the files)
16:02:53 [dom]
... it's equivalent to what we have in BONDI
16:03:18 [dom]
... they're functionally equivalent, it's just the way the data is organized
16:03:31 [BryanSullivan]
q-
16:04:24 [dom]
Frederick: so Policy Management is out of scope of our work, but it has an impact on our scope of work on policy definitions
16:04:33 [dom]
... I'll look more closely to the BONDI specs
16:04:38 [drogersuk]
q+
16:04:44 [dom]
ack drog
16:05:17 [dom]
David: in BONDI, we've left open policy management
16:06:13 [dom]
... In the discussions on the mailing list, I'm not sure what are the alternatives on defining a policy framework at some point (e.g. for filesystems API)
16:06:32 [dom]
Frederick: could you send an email on that topic?
16:06:34 [BryanSullivan]
q+
16:06:38 [dom]
David: I've done that already
16:06:43 [fhirsch]
ack BryanSullivan
16:06:46 [fhirsch]
q+
16:07:04 [dom]
Bryan: the management of policy (storage, updates, user decision involvement) is out of scope
16:07:21 [dom]
... the definition of a policy file, an expression of a policy as a set of API permissions etc, should be in scope
16:07:34 [dom]
... it's not directly influenced by policy management
16:07:46 [dom]
... it's more dependent on APIs and their security aspects
16:08:04 [fhirsch]
ack fhirsch
16:08:11 [dom]
... if we go deeper into UI considerations, we also need to take into account enabling a similar set of features in a policy-based approach
16:08:29 [dom]
Frederick: I keep coming back to the question of who's writing the policy
16:08:49 [dom]
... if you don't have a model of this, I think it's hard to understand the use cases for the policy framework
16:09:18 [dom]
Topic: APIs
16:09:28 [dom]
Robin: we've discussed making Capture a priority item for the roadmap
16:09:35 [drogersuk]
correction to minutes above: For people who are saying we don't need policy - I don't see the alternative once you've run out all the ways of designing the API securely apart from deferring the decision to the user - I'd like to see input to this because it will help the FileAPI and FileSystem API discussions progress
16:09:46 [dom]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Make capture (Video/Photo/Sound) a priority API
16:09:58 [dom]
RESOLUTION: Make capture (Video/Photo/Sound) a priority API
16:10:25 [dom]
Robin: within the priority documents, I would like to assign action items for people to come up with first editors drafts
16:10:49 [dom]
... we already have one for contacts (Richard), but everyone is welcomed to help
16:11:02 [dom]
... Richard has already started working on Calendar, but would be helpful if he got help
16:11:06 [dom]
... what about messaging?
16:11:24 [dom]
Claes: I'm interested to take on that
16:11:31 [dom]
Robin: Daniel Coloma was also interested
16:11:39 [Dzung_Tran]
I can take on Capture
16:11:48 [fhirsch]
q?
16:11:51 [fhirsch]
q+
16:11:55 [dom]
ACTION: Claes to provide an editors draft of the Messaging API - due in two weeks
16:11:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-65 - provide an editors draft of the Messaging API [on Claes Nilsson - due 1970-01-01].
16:11:59 [dom]
ack f
16:12:13 [fhirsch]
q?
16:12:13 [dom]
Frederick: suresh, did you mention you were interested in Calendar?
16:12:23 [dom]
Suresh: yes, but RObin said Richard was working on it
16:12:24 [nwidell]
ACtion-65 should be on nwidell
16:12:27 [dom]
... I'll work with him
16:12:35 [dom]
ACTION-65?
16:12:35 [trackbot]
ACTION-65 -- Claes Nilsson to provide an editors draft of the Messaging API -- due 1970-01-01 -- OPEN
16:12:35 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/65
16:13:09 [dom]
s/Claes/Niklas/
16:13:10 [dom]
s/Claes/Niklas/
16:13:20 [ingmar]
q+
16:13:23 [dom]
Robin: what about Capture? Dzung?
16:13:28 [Dzung_Tran]
Sure
16:13:49 [dom]
ACTION: Dzung to provide an editors draft of the Capture API
16:13:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-66 - Provide an editors draft of the Capture API [on Dzung Tran - due 2009-11-25].
16:13:59 [darobin]
ack i
16:14:07 [dom]
ack ingmar
16:14:14 [dom]
Ingmar: I'm happy to help on Capture as well
16:14:42 [dom]
Robin: if any of the editors don't have access to CVS, please contact Dom (but not DOM)
16:14:49 [dom]
RObin: what about FileSystems?
16:15:03 [dom]
... I'll take a stab at it
16:15:15 [dom]
ACTION: Robin to provide a first editors draft of the FileSystems API
16:15:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-67 - Provide a first editors draft of the FileSystems API [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-11-25].
16:15:25 [dom]
Bryan: I'll provide feedback on it
16:15:47 [dom]
Robin: We've had sysInfo in CVS for a while
16:15:55 [dom]
... please provide feedback as soon as possible
16:16:00 [dom]
... so that we can decide to move to FPWD
16:16:04 [maxf]
q+
16:16:11 [dom]
Bryan: I've provided input FWIW
16:16:47 [Dzung_Tran]
Sorry what is FWIW?
16:16:57 [dom]
ACTION-58?
16:16:57 [trackbot]
ACTION-58 -- Bryan Sullivan to make a concrete proposal with a vocabulary-based approach to system & events, with a few examples (e.g. battery level) -- due 2009-11-11 -- OPEN
16:16:57 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/58
16:17:05 [tlr]
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16:17:40 [dom]
Bryan: regarding the FWPD of requirements, it wasn't clear to me that we had reached consensus on the content of the document
16:17:53 [dom]
... I'd like to see my set of requirements integrated in the document
16:18:09 [dom]
... it looks like new requirements are impeded to get in the document
16:18:26 [fhirsch]
FPWD simply means to publish draft which is subject to change
16:18:26 [dom]
Robin: as an editor, I was hoping you would provide help in adding your reqs there
16:18:58 [dom]
... put it in the document — that will make it more likely for people to react :)
16:19:16 [fhirsch]
q+
16:19:26 [dom]
David: maybe there should be a separate call for editors to help them set them up
16:20:07 [dom]
Robin: I'm not seeing that people should always put their feedback in the doc; but when not getting feedback, it can be a useful tool
16:20:15 [darobin]
s/seeing/saying/
16:20:20 [dom]
q?
16:20:21 [BryanSullivan]
q-
16:20:27 [fhirsch]
q-
16:20:41 [dom]
Robin: regarding helping editors, it would be helpful to know what the questions are
16:20:56 [dom]
... send me emails, and then I can figure out the best format to help people out
16:20:58 [dom]
ack maxf
16:21:20 [dom]
Maxf: you've listed the 4 priority APIs documents, but also listed capture which is in the "other" category
16:21:29 [dom]
Robin: we've just resolved to make it a priority
16:21:38 [schittur2]
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16:21:57 [dom]
MaxF: but what happens with the other ones?
16:22:02 [dom]
... I'm in the editors pool
16:22:21 [dom]
... I could either help on the priority ones, or start working on another one
16:22:40 [dom]
Robin: it's perfectly fine to start on a new one; we might just spend less time discussing it
16:22:52 [dom]
MaxF: who wrote Sys and Events?
16:22:55 [dom]
Robin: Dzung
16:23:03 [dom]
Maxf: I'd like to help with that one
16:23:11 [drogersuk]
just to understand, is this based on any of the input?
16:23:16 [dom]
Robin: please coordinate on the list
16:23:28 [Dzung_Tran]
Sure, no problem
16:23:47 [dom]
David: is SysInfo based on any of the input doc?
16:23:58 [dom]
Robin: I think it's something Dzung came up with
16:24:27 [Dzung_Tran]
Yes, it is based on Nokia, BONDI, ..
16:24:32 [dom]
David: Would Dzung be willing to look at the input to the charter and integrate it in SysInfo
16:24:48 [drogersuk]
ok thanks
16:24:48 [dom]
Robin: Dzung says on IRC it's based on Nokia and BONDI
16:24:54 [dom]
... it probably took them into account
16:25:00 [dom]
David: Ok, just wanted to clarify that point
16:25:04 [Zakim]
-drogersuk
16:25:22 [dom]
[@@@]: I'm seeing a lot of regrets for next week
16:25:29 [dom]
Robin: we might have to cancel
16:25:36 [Dzung_Tran]
I think we should cancel
16:25:36 [Zakim]
-Claes
16:25:40 [dom]
[xxx]: can't we make a decision now?
16:25:53 [dom]
+1 on canceling
16:25:57 [fhirsch]
need to decide in advance so people clan plan
16:26:04 [fhirsch]
s/clan/can
16:26:28 [Dzung_Tran]
Most people in US are out on Thanksgiving holiday
16:26:40 [dom]
RESOLVED: no meeting next week, next meeting on Dec 2
16:26:58 [dom]
i/[@@@]/Topic: Next Meeting/
16:27:02 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Sullivan
16:27:11 [dom]
[adjourned]
16:27:19 [nwidell]
-nwidell
16:27:19 [Dzung_Tran]
l8r
16:27:20 [Zakim]
-maxf
16:27:23 [Dzung_Tran]
-
16:27:24 [marengo]
/me bye
16:27:24 [Zakim]
-suresh
16:27:25 [marcin]
bye bye
16:27:28 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/18-dap-minutes.html dom
16:27:38 [Zakim]
-nwidell
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-dom
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-marcin
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-Laura_Arribas
16:27:43 [Zakim]
-darobin
16:27:43 [Zakim]
-marengo
16:27:46 [Zakim]
-fhirsch
16:27:49 [Zakim]
-Ingmar_Kliche
16:27:52 [Zakim]
-wonsuk
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-AnssiK
16:35:01 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, arve, in UW_DAP()10:00AM
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UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
16:35:06 [Zakim]
Attendees were fhirsch, drogersuk, AnssiK, +1.781.534.aaaa, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, lgombos, darobin, maxf, dom, ilkka, Claes, richt, +49.208.829.0.aacc, marcin, arve,
16:35:08 [Zakim]
... +1.408.216.aadd, suresh, marengo, Ingmar_Kliche, Laura_Arribas, +0777183aagg, +47.23.69.aahh, nwidell
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