14:44:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
14:44:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/18-dap-irc
14:44:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:44:53 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
14:44:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
14:44:55 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
14:44:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
14:44:56 <trackbot> Date: 18 November 2009
14:47:58 <dom> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0116.html
14:48:02 <dom> Chair: Robin, Frederick
14:49:30 <marengo> marengo has joined #dap
14:52:40 <fhirsch> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
14:52:51 <fhirsch> Present: Frederick_Hirsch
14:54:18 <drogersuk> drogersuk has joined #dap
14:54:29 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:54:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:54:39 <drogersuk> present+ David_Rogers
14:54:53 <marengo> Present+ Marco_Marengo
14:55:15 <Zakim> +??P19
14:55:37 <drogersuk> zakim, +??P19 is drogersuk
14:55:37 <Zakim> sorry, drogersuk, I do not recognize a party named '+??P19'
14:55:46 <Zakim> +??P20
14:56:00 <fhirsch> zakim, ??P20 is fhirsch
14:56:01 <Zakim> +fhirsch; got it
14:56:25 <drogersuk> zakim, ??P19 is drogersuk
14:56:25 <Zakim> +drogersuk; got it
14:56:46 <Kangchan> Present+ Kangchan_Lee
14:56:56 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:57:00 <fhirsch> zakim, [IPcaller] is marengo
14:57:01 <Zakim> sorry, fhirsch, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
14:57:20 <marengo> i'm not [IPCaller]
14:57:25 <dom> Present: DomHazaelMassieux
14:57:30 <Zakim> +AnssiK
14:57:33 <darobin> darobin has joined #dap
14:57:39 <Zakim> + +1.781.534.aaaa
14:58:02 <Zakim> +Bryan_Sullivan
14:58:08 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:58:18 <lgombos> Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
14:58:45 <darobin> Present+ Robin_Berjon
14:58:46 <wonsuk> zakim, [IPcaller] is wonsuk
14:58:47 <Zakim> +wonsuk; got it
14:58:47 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:59:10 <fhirsch> zakim, aaaa is lgombos
14:59:10 <Zakim> +lgombos; got it
14:59:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:59:56 <Zakim> + +358.504.86aabb
15:00:24 <ilkka> +Present Ilkka_Oksanen
15:00:35 <BryanSullivan> +present BryanSullivan
15:00:44 <Suresh> Suresh has joined #dap
15:00:49 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
15:00:52 <Zakim> +maxf
15:00:57 <Suresh> Present+ Suresh Chitturi
15:01:00 <BryanSullivan> Present+ BryanSullivan
15:01:01 <Zakim> +dom
15:01:14 <maxf> Present+ Max_Froumentin
15:02:13 <marcin> marcin has joined #dap
15:02:34 <marcin> Present+ Marcin_Hanclik
15:02:45 <Zakim> +Claes
15:03:07 <Zakim> +richt
15:03:12 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
15:03:18 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
15:03:24 <Zakim> + +49.208.829.0.aacc
15:03:37 <marcin> Zakim, aacc is marcin
15:03:37 <Zakim> +marcin; got it
15:03:43 <richt> richt has joined #dap
15:03:43 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
15:03:50 <richt> Present+ Richard_Tibbett
15:03:52 <dom> Regrets: Thomas_Roessler
15:04:08 <dom> zakim, who's on the call?
15:04:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see drogersuk, fhirsch, AnssiK (muted), lgombos, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, darobin, ilkka, maxf, dom, Claes, richt, marcin
15:05:01 <Zakim> +arve
15:05:09 <arve> arve has joined #dap
15:05:18 <Laura_Arribas> Laura_Arribas has joined #dap
15:05:40 <darobin> Scribe: Arve
15:05:45 <darobin> ScribeNick: arve 
15:05:48 <fjh> fjh has joined #dap
15:05:57 <Laura_Arribas> Present+ Laura_Arribas
15:06:02 <arve> Zakim, who is here
15:06:03 <Zakim> arve, you need to end that query with '?'
15:06:05 <arve> Zakim, who is here?
15:06:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see drogersuk, fhirsch, AnssiK (muted), lgombos, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, darobin, ilkka, maxf, dom, Claes, richt, marcin, arve
15:06:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see fjh, Laura_Arribas, arve, richt, Dzung_Tran, marcin, Claes, Suresh, darobin, drogersuk, marengo, Zakim, RRSAgent, hendry, MoZ, Kangchan, paddy, fhirsch, AnssiK,
15:06:09 <Zakim> ... BryanSullivan, wonsuk, tlr, maxf, arg, shepazu, trackbot, lgombos, ilkka, dom
15:06:12 <dom> zakim, who's noisy?
15:06:15 <Zakim> + +1.408.216.aadd
15:06:23 <Zakim> dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P0 (38%), arve (15%), fhirsch (18%), darobin (12%), maxf (17%)
15:06:29 <Suresh> Suresh just joined the bridge
15:06:37 <Zakim> + +7.775.41.aaee
15:06:41 <dom> zakim, aadd is suresh
15:06:41 <Zakim> +suresh; got it
15:06:53 <dom> zakim, who's on the call?
15:06:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see drogersuk, fhirsch, AnssiK (muted), lgombos, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, darobin, ilkka, maxf, dom, Claes, richt, marcin, arve, suresh, +7.775.41.aaee
15:06:59 <dom> zakim, mute arve
15:06:59 <Zakim> arve should now be muted
15:07:01 <dom> zakim, mute maxf
15:07:01 <Zakim> maxf should now be muted
15:07:16 <Zakim> +marengo
15:07:25 <dom> zakim, mute suresh
15:07:25 <Zakim> suresh should now be muted
15:07:28 <Zakim> +Ingmar_Kliche
15:07:39 <Laura_Arribas> Zakim, +7.775.41.aaee is Laura_Arribas
15:07:39 <Zakim> +Laura_Arribas; got it
15:08:13 <arve> Yes
15:08:31 <arve> Topic: Administrativa
15:08:43 <dom> ack me
15:08:48 <fhirsch> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0026.html
15:09:06 <ingmar> ingmar has joined #dap
15:09:25 <ingmar> Present+ Ingmar_Kliche
15:09:26 <arve> fhirsch: Geolocation WG is taking on API for orientation and acceleration data from device
15:09:34 <arve> q+
15:09:39 <arve> zakim, unmute
15:09:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmute', arve
15:09:42 <arve> zakim, unmute me
15:09:42 <Zakim> arve should no longer be muted
15:09:43 <fhirsch> ack arve
15:10:01 <maxf> arve: does it mean that that item won't be covered by this WG?
15:10:19 <dom> zakim, who's noisy?
15:10:19 <Suresh> q+
15:10:24 <BryanSullivan> "Acceleration" is not the same as "accelerometer", correct?
15:10:28 <BryanSullivan> q+
15:10:29 <maxf> robin: yes
15:10:30 <fhirsch> ack Suresh
15:10:33 <Zakim> dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: arve (9%), darobin (15%)
15:10:49 <Suresh> zakim, unmute me
15:10:49 <Zakim> suresh was not muted, Suresh
15:10:51 <nwidell> nwidell has joined #dap
15:10:52 <dom> I think Acceleration is the same as accelerometer
15:10:58 <arve> robin: This WG will not take on these item
15:10:59 <drogersuk> q+
15:11:23 <dom> Regrets+ Paddy_Byers
15:11:27 <BryanSullivan> Accelerometer should be outside their scope
15:12:10 <Dzung_Tran> Did someone pass along the Compass spec that I did to the Geolocation WG?
15:12:49 <fhirsch> q?
15:12:55 <fhirsch> ack BryanSullivan
15:12:58 <darobin> q+ to point out that this is a good reason to do anything related to policy outside of the API specs
15:13:01 <arve> suresh: we need to find a way to handle overlap with other groups
15:13:01 <Zakim> + +46.1.07.15.aaff
15:13:31 <fhirsch> q+
15:13:43 <arve> BryanSullivan: Accelerometer is not the same as acceleration
15:13:52 <BryanSullivan> Accelerometer is in general an example  issue for sensor API's - GeoLocation is a special case.
15:13:59 <fhirsch> q?
15:14:00 <arve> we should be careful about geolocation wg expanding their scope
15:14:04 <fhirsch> ack drogersk
15:14:05 <darobin> q+ to point out that we've already resolved that "general sensors" is future work
15:14:08 <fhirsch> ack drogersuk
15:14:14 <BryanSullivan> q-
15:14:21 <dom> zakim, mute me
15:14:21 <Zakim> dom should now be muted
15:14:57 <arve> drogersuk: How do we logically separate accelerometer and acceleration data? 
15:15:01 <Suresh> We need find a way to integrate other "device APIs" work (e.g. geo-location, accelorometer) in to DAP WG deliverables or at the minimum reference them
15:15:31 <dom> [as a point of order, I think people would better react on announcements when they're made on the list, rather than waiting for the call to make their points]
15:15:55 <fhirsch> q?
15:16:01 <darobin> ack
15:16:01 <fhirsch> ack darobin
15:16:01 <Zakim> darobin, you wanted to point out that this is a good reason to do anything related to policy outside of the API specs and to point out that we've already resolved that "general
15:16:04 <Zakim> ... sensors" is future work
15:16:42 <drogersuk> my point doesn't seem to have been minuted:
15:16:43 <maxf> q+ to say that geolocation WG does "orientation" independently of how you measure it
15:17:22 <maxf> q-
15:17:27 <drogersuk> drogersuk: We need to look at the clear logical separations between functionality - e.g. geolocation and accelerometer, they are probably independent functions
15:18:09 <fhirsch> ack fhirsch
15:18:11 <nwidell> Present+ Niklas_Widell
15:19:10 <drogersuk> q+
15:19:31 <fhirsch> ack drogersuk
15:19:35 <darobin> RB: to Suresh's point, I would like to say that we should simply do policy orthogonally from APIs so that we can also cover other WGs' APIs
15:20:35 <darobin> RB: to Bryan's I would like to point out that we're not working on generic sensors, so there's no chartered requirements to prevent Geo from doing Accelerometer — if they have the bandwidth then by all means we should be happy to have less to do
15:20:42 <maxf> Geolocation WG's action item where draft on "orientation and acceleration" is proposed: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/03-geolocation-minutes.html#action05
15:20:57 <marcin> +1 to orthogonality
15:21:14 <Suresh> I agree with what Robin just said in separating the policy from APIs
15:21:31 <dom> [I think that "FUture APIs are not considered a priority" is a sufficient statement to make to clarify the situation]
15:21:42 <darobin> +1 to dom
15:22:10 <marcin> +1 to dom & darobin
15:22:16 <arve> +1 to dom
15:22:18 <drogersuk> we don't want to discourage people from creating new things though
15:22:29 <drogersuk> it just won't be discussed as it is not in charter
15:22:55 <marcin> specifying policy for existing APIs will be a good exercise for the future APIs
15:23:53 <fhirsch> F2F Scheduling
15:24:00 <arve> ACTION: dom will update home page to reflect "Future apis are not a priority"
15:24:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Will update home page to reflect "Future apis are not a priority" [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2009-11-25].
15:24:05 <dom> zakim, mute arve
15:24:05 <Zakim> arve should now be muted
15:24:15 <dom> ack me
15:24:20 <fhirsch> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2009Nov/0011.html
15:24:41 <arve> topic: f2f
15:25:04 <fhirsch> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/prague-f2f-dates/results
15:25:34 <Zakim> + +0777183aagg
15:25:40 <Zakim> -drogersuk
15:26:03 <dom> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: next WG F2F in Prague on March 16 to 18
15:26:12 <arve> going once
15:26:16 <arve> going twice
15:26:23 <arve> zakim, unmute me
15:26:23 <Zakim> arve should no longer be muted
15:26:50 <dom> zakim, aagg is drogersuk
15:26:50 <Zakim> +drogersuk; got it
15:27:15 <arve> drogersuk: 16-18 might collide with SXSW for some members
15:27:33 <dom> zakim, mute arve
15:27:33 <Zakim> arve should now be muted
15:27:39 <richt> I may go to SXSW but it is not yet confirmed
15:28:08 <arve> drogersuk: need to avoid overlap with omtp meeting, there seems to be none
15:28:44 <arve> darobin: only overlap with SXSW currently seems to be drogersuk 
15:29:02 <arve> drogersuk: there will be noe overlap with OMTP
15:29:38 <dom> ack me
15:30:39 <dom> zakim, mute me
15:30:39 <Zakim> dom should now be muted
15:31:10 <arve> dom: april an alternative
15:31:19 <arve> arve: would prefer march
15:31:25 <fhirsch> prefer march
15:31:41 <darobin> drogersuk: OMTP are always happy to host in London
15:31:41 <arve> fhirsch: would propose resolution
15:32:01 <dom> ack me
15:32:14 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to contact Prague uni to ask if we can meet on 16-18/03
15:32:14 <wonsuk> +1 for March
15:32:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Contact Prague uni to ask if we can meet on 16-18/03 [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-11-25].
15:32:31 <dom> zakim, mute me
15:32:31 <Zakim> dom should now be muted
15:32:34 <dom> zakim, mute arve
15:32:34 <Zakim> arve should now be muted
15:32:50 <arve> RESOLUTION: Meeting date set to 16-18/03 2010
15:33:13 <arve> fhirsch: Is the meeting 2.5 days or 3?
15:33:22 <arve> +1 to 2.5
15:33:29 <drogersuk> +1
15:33:33 <Claes> +1 for 2.5
15:33:38 <wonsuk> +1 for 2.5
15:33:45 <maxf> +1
15:33:47 <Laura_Arribas> +1 for 2.5
15:33:47 <marengo> +1 for 2.5
15:34:08 <drogersuk> lol make it 3.5 then
15:34:18 <darobin> I think 5.5
15:34:42 <marcin> 0 to 2.5 and/or 3
15:34:49 <AnssiK> why not 2^2?
15:35:20 <arve> proposed resolution: meeting will be 2.5 days?
15:36:29 <arve> RESOLUTION: meeting will be 2.5 days?
15:36:37 <darobin> RB: we could perhaps start at 11 the first day and finish at 1530 the last day
15:36:51 <dom> s/days?/days/
15:36:53 <arve> topic: minutes
15:37:18 <dom> ack me
15:37:20 <arve> fhirsch: any objections to approving minutes from last meeting
15:38:10 <darobin> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/#roadmap
15:38:26 <dom> zakim, mute me
15:38:26 <Zakim> dom should now be muted
15:38:35 <fhirsch>  Policy Requirements Editors Draft updated
15:38:50 <arve> fhirsch: please review document
15:38:55 <fhirsch> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html
15:39:34 <arve> ACTION: Laura_Arribas to review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html
15:39:34 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Laura_Arribas
15:39:50 <dom> ACTION: Laura to review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html
15:39:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0044.html [on Laura Arribas - due 2009-11-25].
15:40:00 <Laura_Arribas> ACTION: Laura Arribas to review last reqs document
15:40:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-64 - Arribas to review last reqs document [on Laura Arribas - due 2009-11-25].
15:40:43 <arve> [?] Contacts API updated to use vCard
15:40:44 <BryanSullivan> q+
15:40:45 <Zakim> -ilkka
15:40:49 <fhirsch> richard notes has updated contacts using vcard, working on security considerations and use cases
15:40:50 <darobin> richt++
15:41:47 <arve> topic: policy segment
15:41:54 <arve> Zakim, unmute me
15:41:54 <Zakim> arve should no longer be muted
15:41:57 <fhirsch> Markup for implicit consent
15:42:13 <Suresh> richard, can you post the link to the contacts API draft, please?
15:42:39 <fhirsch> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0115.html
15:42:45 <richt> Contacts API Latest Editor's Draft: http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/Overview.html
15:43:13 <fhirsch> zakim, unumte maxf
15:43:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unumte maxf', fhirsch
15:43:21 <fhirsch> zakim, unmute maxf
15:43:21 <Zakim> maxf should no longer be muted
15:43:39 <maxf> ok. I'll call back
15:43:47 <maxf> no
15:43:48 <richt> regarding the contacts api: you may need to do a refresh or clear cache. I was having problems with the etags (or something) not refreshing the page.
15:43:54 <Zakim> -maxf
15:44:18 <dom> Bryan, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Oct/att-0120/minutes-2009-10-07.html#item06 re agreement to publish FPWD
15:44:36 <fhirsch> action-47?
15:44:36 <trackbot> ACTION-47 -- Laura Arribas to provide input on trust model and access control model definitions -- due 2009-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:44:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/47
15:44:54 <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aahh
15:45:03 <arve> zakim, aahh is maxf 
15:45:03 <Zakim> +maxf; got it
15:45:59 <arve> maxf: I had the action item to explore reusing security from file upload control
15:46:04 <nwidell> zakim, +46.1.07.15.aaff is nwidell
15:46:04 <Zakim> +nwidell; got it
15:46:05 <arve> for implicit user consent
15:46:41 <arve> maxf: the idea was to figure out if model applied to other apis
15:48:39 <arve> q+
15:48:43 <dom> +1 on figuring the process to specify possible markup aspects of our APIs as we go
15:49:17 <Suresh> q+
15:49:36 <arve> fhirsch: does this apply for widgets and/or webapps?
15:49:43 <arve> maxf: will investigate
15:49:45 <tlr> tlr has joined #dap
15:49:52 <darobin> ack arve
15:50:02 <maxf> arve: do we have the necessary expertise in the area?
15:50:16 <maxf> … just as much about usability
15:50:33 <fhirsch> frederick asks where we define input types, robin notes either in HTML WG or here as appropriate, can do later
15:50:36 <BryanSullivan> +1 to no "one shoe fits all" 
15:50:41 <maxf> … I would propose relieveing max of his action item and revisit it later
15:50:58 <fhirsch> need to define input element for each API , part of API definition
15:51:17 <maxf> … e.g. file system access. There's a lot about making the API usable. … geolocation ...
15:51:23 <fhirsch> q?
15:51:27 <darobin> ack BryanSullivan 
15:51:29 <fhirsch> ack BryanSullivan
15:51:31 <Suresh> i don't believe this model of input="xx" fits all the use cases, 
15:51:54 <fhirsch> ack Suresh
15:52:17 <richt> agree with suresh but we need use cases in our documents though to justify that.
15:52:21 <BryanSullivan> q-
15:52:24 <fhirsch> max, can you please check status of HTML WG and how process would proceed for defining input types
15:52:26 <dom> [I think the idea behind MaxF's action was to put some ideas on the table that we can take from when looking at specific APIs]
15:53:15 <arve> Suresh: too early to agree on the topic
15:53:45 <BryanSullivan> we need to recognize that a UI-based approach will not address all use cases, e.g. to create accessible webapps or that work well in input/output constrained devices.
15:54:13 <maxf> q+
15:54:16 <arve> Suresh: are we restricting ourselves to this, or is it just one of many options
15:54:24 <fhirsch> ack maxf
15:54:27 <arve> fhirsch: it's one option, not _the_ option
15:54:36 <dom> [well, the important thing would be to look at specific use cases that wouldn't be addressed by this, so that we understand better the limits of the approach]
15:55:12 <dom> [I think the people that are skeptic should do that :) ]
15:55:15 <AnssiK> <input type="foo"> approach is nice in a sense it provides both programmatic (via DOM API) and declarative (ie. markup) mechanisms
15:55:41 <arve> +1 to darobin's written proposal
15:55:48 <arve> Zakim, unmute me
15:55:48 <Zakim> arve should no longer be muted
15:56:18 <fhirsch> action-47?
15:56:18 <trackbot> ACTION-47 -- Laura Arribas to provide input on trust model and access control model definitions -- due 2009-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:56:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/47
15:56:22 <Dzung_Tran> agree with robin, each person who owns their API needs to apply the input/output as you see fit
15:56:48 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2009Nov/0128.html Laura's comparison of BONDI/Nokia trust model and access contrl
15:56:57 <dom> ScribeNick: dom
15:57:38 <dom> Topic: Comparison between Nokia and BONDI on trust model and access contrl
15:57:45 <dom> Laura: both approaches are significantly similar
15:58:03 <dom> ... the major difference is that Nokia considers the trust manager and the access manager separately
15:58:17 <dom> ... the access manager makes the final access decision
15:58:46 <dom> ... BONDI has a different architecture — the trust decision is included in the access manager
15:59:08 <darobin> q?
15:59:22 <dom> ... there are also differences in the policies
15:59:39 <dom> ... Nokia consider 2 polices: trust, and access control
15:59:43 <dom> s/contrl/control/
16:00:11 <dom> ... BONDI doesn't make that differenciation and includes everything in the same policy
16:00:23 <lgombos> have a hard limit, have to drop of, sorry
16:00:25 <Zakim> -lgombos
16:00:44 <dom> ... I would welcome reviews on my summary
16:00:58 <dom> ... I don't have specific ideas on how to integrate in the requirements document
16:01:28 <BryanSullivan> q+
16:01:30 <dom> Frederick: I'm not quite sure why BONDI wouldn't consider access control and trust management as separate concerns
16:01:36 <richt> unfortunately I need to leave the call for another meeting :( 
16:01:38 <dom> ... I need to look more closely in the specs
16:01:40 <richt> I will catch up with the minutes and follow up on the mailing list.
16:01:59 <Dzung_Tran> So should we review and discuss on the mail list?
16:02:07 <dom> Laura: it allows to group permissions in different domains
16:02:09 <Zakim> -richt
16:02:23 <fhirsch> ack BryanSullivan
16:02:42 <Suresh> i don't think trust and access control should be treated separately, a decision needs to be take with both into account
16:02:44 <dom> Bryan: the distinction between trust and policy in Nokia is essentially a way to organize the data (the files)
16:02:53 <dom> ... it's equivalent to what we have in BONDI
16:03:18 <dom> ... they're functionally equivalent, it's just the way the data is organized
16:03:31 <BryanSullivan> q-
16:04:24 <dom> Frederick: so Policy Management is out of scope of our work, but it has an impact on our scope of work on policy definitions
16:04:33 <dom> ... I'll look more closely to the BONDI specs
16:04:38 <drogersuk> q+
16:04:44 <dom> ack drog
16:05:17 <dom> David: in BONDI, we've left open policy management
16:06:13 <dom> ... In the discussions on the mailing list, I'm not sure what are the alternatives on defining a policy framework at some point (e.g. for filesystems API)
16:06:32 <dom> Frederick: could you send an email on that topic?
16:06:34 <BryanSullivan> q+
16:06:38 <dom> David: I've done that already
16:06:43 <fhirsch> ack BryanSullivan
16:06:46 <fhirsch> q+
16:07:04 <dom> Bryan: the management of policy (storage, updates, user decision involvement) is out of scope
16:07:21 <dom> ... the definition of a policy file, an expression of a policy as a set of API permissions etc, should be in scope
16:07:34 <dom> ... it's not directly influenced by policy management
16:07:46 <dom> ... it's more dependent on APIs and their security aspects
16:08:04 <fhirsch> ack fhirsch
16:08:11 <dom> ... if we go deeper into UI considerations, we also need to take into account enabling a similar set of features in a policy-based approach
16:08:29 <dom> Frederick: I keep coming back to the question of who's writing the policy
16:08:49 <dom> ... if you don't have a model of this, I think it's hard to understand the use cases for the policy framework
16:09:18 <dom> Topic: APIs
16:09:28 <dom> Robin: we've discussed making Capture a priority item for the roadmap
16:09:35 <drogersuk> correction to minutes above: For people who are saying we don't need policy - I don't see the alternative once you've run out all the ways of designing the API securely apart from deferring the decision to the user - I'd like to see input to this because it will help the FileAPI and FileSystem API discussions progress
16:09:46 <dom> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Make capture (Video/Photo/Sound) a priority API
16:09:58 <dom> RESOLUTION: Make capture (Video/Photo/Sound) a priority API
16:10:25 <dom> Robin: within the priority documents, I would like to assign action items for people to come up with first editors drafts
16:10:49 <dom> ... we already have one for contacts (Richard), but everyone is welcomed to help
16:11:02 <dom> ... Richard has already started working on Calendar, but would be helpful if he got help
16:11:06 <dom> ... what about messaging?
16:11:24 <dom> Claes: I'm interested to take on that
16:11:31 <dom> Robin: Daniel Coloma was also interested
16:11:39 <Dzung_Tran> I can take on Capture
16:11:48 <fhirsch> q?
16:11:51 <fhirsch> q+
16:11:55 <dom> ACTION: Claes to provide an editors draft of the Messaging API - due in two weeks
16:11:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-65 - provide an editors draft of the Messaging API [on Claes Nilsson - due 1970-01-01].
16:11:59 <dom> ack f
16:12:13 <fhirsch> q?
16:12:13 <dom> Frederick: suresh, did you mention you were interested in Calendar?
16:12:23 <dom> Suresh: yes, but RObin said Richard was working on it
16:12:24 <nwidell> ACtion-65 should be on nwidell
16:12:27 <dom> ... I'll work with him
16:12:35 <dom> ACTION-65?
16:12:35 <trackbot> ACTION-65 -- Claes Nilsson to provide an editors draft of the Messaging API -- due 1970-01-01 -- OPEN
16:12:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/65
16:13:09 <dom> s/Claes/Niklas/
16:13:10 <dom> s/Claes/Niklas/
16:13:20 <ingmar> q+
16:13:23 <dom> Robin: what about Capture? Dzung?
16:13:28 <Dzung_Tran> Sure
16:13:49 <dom> ACTION: Dzung to provide an editors draft of the Capture API
16:13:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-66 - Provide an editors draft of the Capture API [on Dzung Tran - due 2009-11-25].
16:13:59 <darobin> ack i
16:14:07 <dom> ack ingmar
16:14:14 <dom> Ingmar: I'm happy to help on Capture as well
16:14:42 <dom> Robin: if any of the editors don't have access to CVS, please contact Dom (but not DOM)
16:14:49 <dom> RObin: what about FileSystems?
16:15:03 <dom> ... I'll take a stab at it
16:15:15 <dom> ACTION: Robin to provide a first editors draft of the FileSystems API
16:15:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-67 - Provide a first editors draft of the FileSystems API [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-11-25].
16:15:25 <dom> Bryan: I'll provide feedback on it
16:15:47 <dom> Robin: We've had sysInfo in CVS for a while
16:15:55 <dom> ... please provide feedback as soon as possible
16:16:00 <dom> ... so that we can decide to move to FPWD
16:16:04 <maxf> q+
16:16:11 <dom> Bryan: I've provided input FWIW
16:16:47 <Dzung_Tran> Sorry what is FWIW?
16:16:57 <dom> ACTION-58?
16:16:57 <trackbot> ACTION-58 -- Bryan Sullivan to make a concrete proposal with a vocabulary-based approach to system & events, with a few examples (e.g. battery level) -- due 2009-11-11 -- OPEN
16:16:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/58
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16:17:40 <dom> Bryan: regarding the FWPD of requirements, it wasn't clear to me that we had reached consensus on the content of the document
16:17:53 <dom> ... I'd like to see my set of requirements integrated in the document
16:18:09 <dom> ... it looks like new requirements are impeded to get in the document
16:18:26 <fhirsch> FPWD simply means to publish draft which is subject to change
16:18:26 <dom> Robin: as an editor, I was hoping you would provide help in adding your reqs there
16:18:58 <dom> ... put it in the document — that will make it more likely for people to react :)
16:19:16 <fhirsch> q+
16:19:26 <dom> David: maybe there should be a separate call for editors to help them set them up
16:20:07 <dom> Robin: I'm not seeing that people should always put their feedback in the doc; but when not getting feedback, it can be a useful tool
16:20:15 <darobin> s/seeing/saying/
16:20:20 <dom> q?
16:20:21 <BryanSullivan> q-
16:20:27 <fhirsch> q-
16:20:41 <dom> Robin: regarding helping editors, it would be helpful to know what the questions are
16:20:56 <dom> ... send me emails, and then I can figure out the best format to help people out
16:20:58 <dom> ack maxf
16:21:20 <dom> Maxf: you've listed the 4 priority APIs documents, but also listed capture which is in the "other" category
16:21:29 <dom> Robin: we've just resolved to make it a priority
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16:21:57 <dom> MaxF: but what happens with the other ones?
16:22:02 <dom> ... I'm in the editors pool
16:22:21 <dom> ... I could either help on the priority ones, or start working on another one
16:22:40 <dom> Robin: it's perfectly fine to start on a new one; we might just spend less time discussing it
16:22:52 <dom> MaxF: who wrote Sys and Events?
16:22:55 <dom> Robin: Dzung
16:23:03 <dom> Maxf: I'd like to help with that one
16:23:11 <drogersuk> just to understand, is this based on any of the input?
16:23:16 <dom> Robin: please coordinate on the list
16:23:28 <Dzung_Tran> Sure, no problem
16:23:47 <dom> David: is SysInfo based on any of the input doc?
16:23:58 <dom> Robin: I think it's something Dzung came up with
16:24:27 <Dzung_Tran> Yes, it is based on Nokia, BONDI, ..
16:24:32 <dom> David: Would Dzung be willing to look at the input to the charter and integrate it in SysInfo
16:24:48 <drogersuk> ok thanks
16:24:48 <dom> Robin: Dzung says on IRC it's based on Nokia and BONDI
16:24:54 <dom> ... it probably took them into account
16:25:00 <dom> David: Ok, just wanted to clarify that point
16:25:04 <Zakim> -drogersuk
16:25:22 <dom> [@@@]: I'm seeing a lot of regrets for next week
16:25:29 <dom> Robin: we might have to cancel
16:25:36 <Dzung_Tran> I think we should cancel
16:25:36 <Zakim> -Claes
16:25:40 <dom> [xxx]: can't we make a decision now?
16:25:53 <dom> +1 on canceling
16:25:57 <fhirsch> need to decide in advance so people clan plan
16:26:04 <fhirsch> s/clan/can
16:26:28 <Dzung_Tran> Most people in US are out on Thanksgiving holiday
16:26:40 <dom> RESOLVED: no meeting next week, next meeting on Dec 2
16:26:58 <dom> i/[@@@]/Topic: Next Meeting/
16:27:02 <Zakim> -Bryan_Sullivan
16:27:11 <dom> [adjourned]
16:27:19 <nwidell> -nwidell
16:27:19 <Dzung_Tran> l8r
16:27:20 <Zakim> -maxf
16:27:23 <Dzung_Tran> -
16:27:24 <marengo> /me bye
16:27:24 <Zakim> -suresh
16:27:25 <marcin> bye bye
16:27:28 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:27:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/18-dap-minutes.html dom
16:27:38 <Zakim> -nwidell
16:27:41 <Zakim> -dom
16:27:42 <Zakim> -marcin
16:27:42 <Zakim> -Laura_Arribas
16:27:43 <Zakim> -darobin
16:27:43 <Zakim> -marengo
16:27:46 <Zakim> -fhirsch
16:27:49 <Zakim> -Ingmar_Kliche
16:27:52 <Zakim> -wonsuk
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16:28:31 <Zakim> -AnssiK
16:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, arve, in UW_DAP()10:00AM
16:35:02 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
16:35:06 <Zakim> Attendees were fhirsch, drogersuk, AnssiK, +1.781.534.aaaa, Bryan_Sullivan, wonsuk, lgombos, darobin, maxf, dom, ilkka, Claes, richt, +49.208.829.0.aacc, marcin, arve,
16:35:08 <Zakim> ... +1.408.216.aadd, suresh, marengo, Ingmar_Kliche, Laura_Arribas, +0777183aagg, +47.23.69.aahh, nwidell
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