13:57:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #awwsw
13:57:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/17-awwsw-irc
13:57:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #awwsw
13:57:52 <dbooth> zakim, this will be awwsw
13:57:52 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, dbooth
13:58:23 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
13:58:23 <Zakim> sorry, dbooth, I don't know what conference this is
13:58:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, dbooth, mhausenblas, trackbot
13:58:49 <dbooth> michael, do you know if jonathan scheduled the teleconference bridge?
13:58:59 <mhausenblas> ahm, yeah, he said so ...
13:59:23 <mhausenblas> dunno -  just from his last mail, though
13:59:51 <dbooth> the usual pass code isn't working
14:00:16 <dbooth> i will try to reach amy
14:00:20 <mhausenblas> ta
14:04:19 <dbooth> zakim, help
14:04:19 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
14:04:21 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:
14:04:23 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
14:04:25 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
14:04:27 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
14:04:30 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
14:04:32 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
14:04:35 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
14:04:38 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone
14:04:40 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted
14:04:42 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
14:04:45 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
14:04:48 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
14:04:50 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences
14:04:51 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx
14:04:52 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel
14:04:53 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2008/12/09 02:16:52 $
14:05:15 <mhausenblas> I don't see anything at http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#D20091117
14:05:20 <dbooth> zakim, list conferences
14:05:20 <Zakim> I see UW_Team()8:00AM active
14:05:21 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM, IA_(HTML5 Read)9:00AM
14:05:41 <mhausenblas> yeah
14:05:56 <dbooth> i haven't been able to reach amy yet
14:06:02 <mhausenblas> but  next week ... maybe he's forgotten about it ;)
14:06:17 <mhausenblas> now I know why :)
14:06:31 <mhausenblas> digging out TAG mail that might explain it ...
14:06:52 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Nov/0031.html
14:07:37 <mhausenblas> hence I guess jar gave priority to the other action and somehow decided that it is not necessary to meet every week now
14:07:44 <mhausenblas> just my 0.02€ ;)
14:08:08 <dbooth> i'll see if i have a mobile phone number for him
14:08:15 <mhausenblas> ok
14:08:49 <dbooth> calling his mobile...
14:10:33 <jar> jar has joined #awwsw
14:10:58 <mhausenblas> that was quick .... or coincidence? :)
14:10:59 <jar> hi sorry i dropped the ball here.
14:11:00 <dbooth> i haven't been able to reach amy
14:11:16 <mhausenblas> jar, is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Nov/0031.html the reason?
14:11:18 <jar> let's meet by irc until amy or someone gets us a zakim slot?
14:11:32 <jar> no it's not.
14:11:33 <mhausenblas> oh, so we do want to meet? :)
14:11:36 <mhausenblas> good
14:11:37 <dbooth>  i haven't been able to reach amy
14:11:46 <jar> i think given that we have 3 people converged we should.  in fact we are.
14:11:55 <mhausenblas> wonderful
14:11:55 <jar> but i have done no more work.
14:12:09 <dbooth> here, i'll give you my teleconf number....
14:12:24 <mhausenblas> well, is there much to discuss or are we mainly supposed to produce text?
14:12:32 <dbooth>  For participants:
14:12:32 <dbooth> (1) Dial (866) 210-0476, or international dial-in: (303) 927-2988
14:12:32 <dbooth> (2) Dial conference code: 7400898083 #
14:12:32 <dbooth> (3) When prompted, speak name, then press #
14:12:32 <dbooth> (4) Hang up when finished
14:12:33 <jar> but I think a good thing has happened: based on David's email I think he and I are in agreement on what the document is about!
14:12:48 <mhausenblas> right
14:12:55 <jar> i'll try dialing in now
14:13:25 <mhausenblas> dbooth: international dial-in: (303) 927-2988 ... ahm without the 001 for US?
14:13:52 <jar> "leader has not yet arrived"
14:13:56 <jar> muzack
14:14:28 <jar> muzack still.
14:14:33 <dbooth> still connecting....
14:14:47 <dbooth> michael, you will need the country code 1
14:15:20 <dbooth> s/(866) 210-0476, or international dial-in: (303) 927-2988//
14:15:48 <dbooth> s/Dial conference code: 7400898083 #//
14:16:21 <dbooth> Meeting: AWWSW
14:16:39 <dbooth> Chair: Jonathan Rees (jar)
14:16:57 <dbooth> Topic: Draft document
14:17:08 <dbooth> Michael: Still working on motivation
14:17:10 <mhausenblas> http://esw.w3.org/topic/AwwswHome/DraftReport
14:18:01 <jar> access log analysis
14:18:05 <dbooth> ... One use case is server access log analysis.
14:18:42 <dbooth> ... RDF is nice for that because it enables SPARQL access, but it doesn't scale well because there are lots of log entries.
14:18:52 <jar> HTTP over SPARQL as a use case?
14:18:55 <dbooth> jar: I'm looking at HTTP over SPARQL use case.
14:19:22 <dbooth> michael: We are looking at that also.  I'll send a reference.
14:19:27 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-awwsw/2009Nov/0003.html
14:21:14 <dbooth> jar: This is different from what i was thinking.  i'm suggesting http over sparql.  If you only had a sparql connection and you wanted to do http requests.
14:21:55 <dbooth> ... proxying through the sparql query to do http.
14:22:12 <dbooth> dbooth: why?
14:23:19 <dbooth> jar: it's a thought experiment.  it forces you to phrase your request in sparql and represent your response in rdf, which is essentially what dbooth's ont and rules and my shell script are doing.
14:23:28 <dbooth> ... it's just a way to formulate the problem.
14:24:17 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #awwsw
14:25:48 <dbooth> harry, i just gave you the dialin info by private chat.  got it?
14:26:55 <dbooth> harry: I just sent jonathan some notes on the ont.
14:30:45 <dbooth> we seem to be in agreement our focus should be on proposing a small ont and rules that indicate what a server is saying (in RDF) when it returns various response codes, such as 200, 301, 302, 303, etc.
14:31:44 <dbooth> harry: the main comment i had on the ont is that we may need to flesh it out to deal with some of these codes, like redirection.
14:32:24 <dbooth> dbooth: how about focusing on one code at a time?
14:32:49 <dbooth> jar: notion of 'resource residing at a location' needs to be understood.
14:33:38 <dbooth> dbooth: to me, that simply means that a client could expect to receive representations when doing requests at that location.
14:33:56 <dbooth> s/at that/of that/
14:35:29 <dbooth> harry: this particular location issue we tried to deal with in IRW by having a location property between the resource and what we call the server.
14:37:27 <dbooth> jar: I would say when you send the request uri to the server it calculates a rep of the thing identified and the server transmits it back to the client.  the server is competent to send reps.
14:38:56 <jar> the server is the source of the response (representation)
14:39:08 <dbooth> jar: ian hickson has said the same thing.
14:40:07 <dbooth> dbooth: i think representing the server will make it easier to explain some of the codes.
14:40:33 <dbooth> AGREED: We'll represent the server that sends reps on behalf of resources.
14:40:34 <jar> so, the 'representation' is synthesized by the server by combining info from the resource with info that it has (e.g. ads, knowledge of how to encode)
14:43:01 <dbooth> dbooth: Suggested work plan: for each http code, collect the suggested rdf assertions (perhaps written in prose) that people have proposed, so we can discuss them one code at a time.
14:43:52 <jar> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616
14:44:30 <dbooth> michael: Suggest starting with 200, 400, 500, 301, 404, 409 are the top seven listed in the restful WS book by sam ruby.
14:44:30 <mhausenblas> From http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596529260
14:44:50 <hhalpin> Obviously, 303 being of interest :)
14:44:50 <dbooth> dbooth: also should include 302 and 303.
14:50:13 <dbooth> Also include: 201, 204 (lower priority),
14:52:04 <dbooth> 205 very low priority, 206 low priority, 
14:55:22 <dbooth> 300, 304, 307, 
14:55:35 <dbooth> jar: litmus test should be whether the code says anything about the resource.
14:56:55 <jar> ACTION mhausenblas: research difference between 400 in 2616 vs. 400 in actual use
14:56:55 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - mhausenblas
14:56:56 <dbooth> ACTION: Michael to look into code 400 about whether we should include it
14:56:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-28 - Look into code 400 about whether we should include it [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-11-24].
14:57:58 <jar> hhalpin: 409 is interesting
14:58:22 <hhalpin> but I suggest 410 is also very interesting.
14:58:55 <hhalpin> Then the only other one I see of interest is 503.
14:59:03 <hhalpin> take care! got another meeting!
14:59:09 <hhalpin> hhalpin has left #awwsw
14:59:51 <dbooth> include 409
15:00:09 <dbooth> include 410
15:02:29 <jar> ACTION jar to research meaning of 417
15:02:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Research meaning of 417 [on Jonathan Rees - due 2009-11-24].
15:03:08 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
15:04:17 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/17-awwsw-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:04:33 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:04:53 <mhausenblas> present+ David
15:04:58 <mhausenblas> present+ Michael
15:05:03 <mhausenblas> present+ Harry
15:05:06 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:05:09 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:05:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/17-awwsw-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:06:34 <mhausenblas> present+ Jonathan
15:06:38 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:06:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/17-awwsw-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:14:38 <mhausenblas> ok, linked from AWWSW hompage (and updated old ones)
15:14:47 <mhausenblas> and added reference to report
15:14:53 <mhausenblas> cya next week
15:55:11 <dbooth> s/michael, do you know if jonathan scheduled the teleconference bridge?//
15:55:23 <dbooth> s/ahm, yeah, he said so ...//
15:55:33 <dbooth> s/dunno - just from his last mail, though//
15:55:45 <dbooth> s/the usual pass code isn't working//
15:55:54 <dbooth> s/i will try to reach amy//
15:56:28 <dbooth> s|I don't see anything at  http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#D20091117||
15:56:39 <dbooth> s/i haven't been able to reach amy yet//
15:56:48 <dbooth> s/but next week ... maybe he's forgotten about it ;)//
15:56:56 <dbooth> s/now I know why :)//
15:57:05 <dbooth> s/digging out TAG mail that might explain it ...//
15:57:32 <dbooth> s|http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Nov/0031.html||
16:00:17 <dbooth> s/hence I guess jar gave priority to the other action and somehow decided that it is not necessary to meet every week now//
16:03:06 <dbooth> s/just my 0.02€ ;)//
16:03:21 <dbooth> s/i'll see if i have a mobile phone number for him//
16:03:36 <dbooth> s/calling his mobile...//
16:03:52 <dbooth> s/that was quick .... or coincidence? :)//
16:04:02 <dbooth> s/hi sorry i dropped the ball here.//
16:04:15 <dbooth> s/i haven't been able to reach amy//
16:04:30 <dbooth> s|jar, is  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2009Nov/0031.html  the reason?||
16:04:41 <dbooth> s/let's meet by irc until amy or someone gets us a zakim slot?//
16:04:53 <dbooth> s/oh, so we do want to meet? :)//
16:05:04 <dbooth> s/i haven't been able to reach amy//
16:05:22 <dbooth> s/i think given that we have 3 people converged we should. in fact we are.//
16:05:34 <dbooth> s/but i have done no more work.//
16:05:43 <dbooth> s/here, i'll give you my teleconf number....//
16:05:57 <dbooth> s/well, is there much to discuss or are we mainly supposed to produce text?//
16:06:06 <dbooth> s/For participants://
16:06:17 <dbooth> s/(1) Dial//
16:06:25 <dbooth> s/(3) When prompted, speak name, then press #//
16:06:33 <dbooth> s/(4) Hang up when finished//
16:06:50 <dbooth> s/i'll try dialing in now//
16:07:00 <dbooth> s/dbooth: international dial-in: (303) 927-2988 ... ahm without the 001 for US?//
16:07:09 <dbooth> s/"leader has not yet arrived"//
16:07:18 <dbooth> s/muzack still.//
16:07:27 <dbooth> s/muzack//
16:07:37 <dbooth> s/still connecting....//
16:07:46 <dbooth> s/michael, you will need the country code 1//
16:08:04 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:08:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/17-awwsw-minutes.html dbooth
16:09:01 <mhausenblas> ta for cleaning up dbooth ;)
16:13:56 <dbooth> s/dunno -  just from his last mail, though//
16:14:21 <dbooth> s|I don't see anything at http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#D20091117||
16:14:50 <dbooth> s/<mhausenblas> ta//
16:15:00 <dbooth> s/<mhausenblas> yeah//
16:15:21 <dbooth> s/but  next week ... maybe he's forgotten about it ;)//
16:15:40 <dbooth> s/<mhausenblas> ok//
16:16:01 <dbooth> s/<jar> no it's not.//
16:16:11 <dbooth> s/<mhausenblas> good//
16:16:30 <dbooth> s/<jar> i think given that we have 3 people converged we should.  in fact we are.//
16:16:47 <dbooth> s/<mhausenblas> wonderful//
16:17:17 <dbooth> s/<dbooth> (2)//
16:17:33 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:17:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/17-awwsw-minutes.html dbooth
16:33:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #awwsw