15:04:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg
15:04:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-irc
15:05:25 <junzhao> zakim, who is here?
15:05:32 <junzhao> zakim, who is here
15:07:54 <junzhao> rrsagent, bookmark
15:07:54 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-irc#T15-07-54
15:08:24 <junzhao> zakim, this is prov-xg
15:08:51 <junzhao> zakim, list conferences
15:09:37 <junzhao> zakim, this will be inc_provxg
15:10:04 <Irini> Irini has left #prov-xg
15:10:25 <junzhao> zakim, code?
15:13:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov-xg
15:13:43 <junzhao> zakim, this will be inc_provxg
15:13:43 <Zakim> ok, junzhao; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 47 minutes
15:14:20 <ian_oliver> Do we have a timezone problem here? 
15:14:33 <ian_oliver> What time does the conference start in UTC?
15:15:56 <junzhao> let me check
15:17:04 <junzhao> at 4pm GMT
15:17:09 <junzhao> in about 40 mins
15:18:28 <junzhao> zakim, code?
15:18:28 <Zakim> the conference code is 98765 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), junzhao
15:18:48 <ian_oliver> According to Yolanda's original email it should be 17h00 EET ... will have to give apologies but can not attend at this time
15:19:26 <raphael> raphael has joined #prov-xg
15:25:44 <junzhao> ok ian. 
15:40:46 <Irini> Irini has joined #prov-xg
15:40:51 <Irini> Irini has left #prov-xg
15:47:51 <YolandaG> YolandaG has joined #prov-xg
15:49:50 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has now started
15:49:57 <Zakim> +Jerry_Hobbs
15:51:01 <YolandaG> zakim, Jerry_Hobbs is really me
15:51:01 <Zakim> +YolandaG; got it
15:51:06 <Paolo> Paolo has joined #prov-xg
15:51:10 <YolandaG> who is on the phone
15:51:19 <YolandaG> zakim, who is on the phone
15:51:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', YolandaG
15:51:55 <olaf> olaf has joined #prov-xg
15:52:22 <Zakim> +??P1
15:52:30 <junzhao> zakim, ??P1 is junzhao
15:52:30 <Zakim> +junzhao; got it
15:52:38 <junzhao> zakim, who is here?
15:52:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see YolandaG, junzhao
15:52:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see olaf, Paolo, YolandaG, raphael, Zakim, RRSAgent, junzhao, ssahoo2, ivan, trackbot
15:53:02 <Zakim> +??P2
15:53:08 <junzhao> Meeting: prov-xg
15:53:42 <junzhao> chair:Yolanda Gil
15:53:56 <junzhao> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Nov/0014.html
15:54:04 <junzhao> Scribe: Jun
15:54:13 <junzhao> ScribeNick: junzhao
15:54:21 <junzhao> zakim, save agenda
15:54:21 <Zakim> the agenda has not been entered yet, junzhao
15:56:17 <Irini> Irini has joined #prov-xg
15:57:17 <Zakim> +Irini
15:57:29 <Luc> Luc has joined #prov-xg
15:57:33 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov-xg
15:57:54 <Zakim> +??P4
15:58:07 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov-xg
15:58:22 <Zakim> +??P5
15:58:45 <pgroth> zakim, +??P5 is pgroth
15:58:45 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth, I do not recognize a party named '+??P5'
15:58:59 <junzhao> zakim, who is here?
15:58:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see YolandaG, junzhao, ??P2, Irini, ??P4, ??P5
15:59:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see pgroth, smiles, Luc, Irini, olaf, Paolo, YolandaG, raphael, Zakim, RRSAgent, junzhao, ssahoo2, ivan, trackbot
15:59:09 <smiles> zakim, ??P5 is really smiles
15:59:09 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
15:59:19 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov-xg
15:59:24 <Joshua> Joshua has joined #prov-xg
15:59:26 <Zakim> + +238059aaaa
15:59:36 <pgroth> zakim, ??P4 is really pgroth
15:59:36 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
16:00:13 <Zakim> +??P7
16:00:33 <pgroth> zakim, who is here?
16:00:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see YolandaG, junzhao, ??P2, Irini, pgroth, smiles, +238059aaaa, ??P7
16:00:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see Joshua, jcheney, pgroth, smiles, Luc, Irini, olaf, Paolo, YolandaG, raphael, Zakim, RRSAgent, junzhao, ssahoo2, ivan, trackbot
16:00:35 <Zakim> + +49.308.385.aabb
16:00:40 <Zakim> + +95230aacc
16:00:42 <Zakim> +Joshua
16:00:54 <raphael> zakim, aacc is raphael
16:00:54 <Zakim> +raphael; got it
16:01:05 <Zakim> + +49.302.093.aadd
16:01:14 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:01:20 <olaf> zakim, aadd is olaf
16:01:20 <Zakim> +olaf; got it
16:01:30 <raphael> trackbot, start telecon
16:01:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:01:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
16:01:35 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
16:01:36 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
16:01:36 <trackbot> Date: 13 November 2009
16:01:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
16:02:22 <junzhao> topic: Introduce yourself
16:02:28 <jcheney> zakim, who is here?
16:02:28 <Zakim> I notice INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has restarted
16:02:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see YolandaG, junzhao, ??P2, Irini, pgroth, smiles, +238059aaaa, ??P7, +49.308.385.aabb, raphael, Joshua, olaf, Ivan, ??P15
16:02:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see Joshua, jcheney, pgroth, smiles, Luc, Irini, olaf, Paolo, YolandaG, raphael, Zakim, RRSAgent, junzhao, ssahoo2, ivan, trackbot
16:03:26 <Paulo> Paulo has joined #prov-xg
16:03:48 <Zakim> +??P17
16:03:55 <jcheney> zakim, ??P7 is really jcheney
16:03:55 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
16:04:03 <raphael> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
16:04:08 <junzhao> zakim, next item
16:04:08 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
16:04:23 <junzhao> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2009Nov/0014.html
16:04:29 <Zakim> +paolo
16:04:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
16:05:07 <Zakim> +Prateek
16:05:28 <junzhao> topic: The progress in general for generating use cases
16:05:43 <Zakim> +??P21
16:05:55 <junzhao> yolanda: what should be our goals for these use cases?
16:06:02 <Zakim> +bertrand_lutaesc
16:06:18 <junzhao> a common ground for discussion, and to stimulate, and to describe motivations in a unified way
16:06:26 <Zakim> +deb
16:06:45 <junzhao> YolandaG: we should have enough richness in them without having to have too many of them
16:06:54 <junzhao> how can we know when we are done
16:07:53 <junzhao> particular challenges of provenance on the semantic web, e.g. social web, linked data, such as granularity problem
16:08:11 <pgroth> yolanda, what do you exactly mean by area?
16:08:12 <afreitas> afreitas has joined #prov-xg
16:08:18 <junzhao> maybe something between 10-20? what does the group think?
16:08:26 <DeborahMcGuinness> DeborahMcGuinness has joined #prov-xg
16:08:58 <junzhao> yolanda: criteria for judging or accepting a use case, e.g., richness, details, etc
16:09:02 <pgroth> +q
16:09:08 <Paulo> should we understand the users of provenance, e.g., scientists, intelligent agents, ordinary web users
16:09:38 <Paulo> +q
16:10:52 <junzhao> paulgroth: what do you mean about "areas"?
16:11:15 <junzhao> yolanda: who will care about provenance. that's what "area" refers to
16:11:50 <junzhao> areas working on semantics e.g. web of trust, on reasoning algorithms; or communities, e.g., hclsig
16:12:29 <junzhao> not sure whether "technology areas" are the right way to go
16:13:05 <junzhao> paulo: scientists v.s. ordinary users have different requirements; and why we are restricted on semantic web
16:13:24 <junzhao> zakim, who is noisy?
16:13:37 <Zakim> junzhao, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +238059aaaa (28%), paolo (29%)
16:14:17 <junzhao> yolanda: we are not restricted to semantic web
16:14:45 <junzhao> we can be driven by semantic web, but some aspects and solutions might come across in the process
16:14:56 <pgroth> +1
16:15:06 <pgroth> for paolo comment
16:15:13 <junzhao> paulo: provenance as an opportunity for us to show semantic web technologies to web users
16:15:33 <pgroth> +q
16:15:39 <smiles> +q
16:15:42 <Paolo> +q
16:15:48 <pgroth> q-
16:16:08 <pgroth> q+
16:16:24 <raphael> zakim, ack Paulo
16:16:24 <Zakim> I see smiles, Paolo, pgroth on the speaker queue
16:16:29 <raphael> zakim, ack smiles
16:16:29 <Zakim> I see Paolo, pgroth on the speaker queue
16:16:58 <junzhao> simon: identifying the technical challenges is important for identifying the gaps
16:17:31 <junzhao> and tie technical challenges with users
16:18:00 <raphael> zakim, ack Paolo
16:18:00 <Zakim> I see pgroth on the speaker queue
16:18:02 <junzhao> paolo: what is the purpose for building a metrix? what to get out of the use cases?
16:18:45 <Paulo> q+
16:18:52 <junzhao> maybe we can get volunteers to check whether something unanticipated emerged from the use cases
16:19:55 <jcheney> +jcheney
16:20:08 <Luc> q+
16:20:14 <junzhao> paulgroth: gather use cases, classify them, identify exemplars, which might help with our metrix
16:20:18 <jcheney> q+
16:20:54 <junzhao> paulgroth: e.g. all use cases that do with attributions, or with validating the process against a particular guideline
16:22:27 <junzhao> paulo: further comments on the metrix
16:23:17 <junzhao> luc: our previous exercise of gathering use case was driven by the goal to design an architecture; but for the xg, the goal is different
16:23:39 <pgroth> +1 on technical requirements
16:23:46 <junzhao> use these use cases to classify the state-of-the-art systems
16:23:51 <pgroth> q-
16:23:59 <junzhao> jcheney: +1 to luc
16:24:56 <pgroth> jcheney, add to use case page on the wiki
16:25:04 <Deborah> Deborah has joined #prov-xg
16:25:16 <junzhao> jcheney: was organizing several workshops last week and a lot of provenance requirements were raised there; gather provenance outside the community
16:25:25 <junzhao> how about security problems
16:25:40 <jmccuske> jmccuske has joined #prov-xg
16:25:46 <junzhao> which doesn't matter in scientific domain; but this matters in many other domains
16:26:24 <pgroth> +q
16:27:29 <Zakim> -jcheney
16:27:35 <Paolo> q+
16:28:20 <pgroth> q-
16:28:21 <junzhao> zakim, who is noisy?
16:28:27 <Zakim> +??P7
16:28:32 <raphael> zakim, ack Paulo
16:28:32 <Zakim> I see Luc, jcheney, Paolo on the speaker queue
16:28:36 <raphael> zakim, ack Luc
16:28:36 <Zakim> I see jcheney, Paolo on the speaker queue
16:28:38 <Zakim> junzhao, listening for 15 seconds I heard sound from the following: YolandaG (11%), +49.308.385.aabb (7%), Ivan (3%), ??P15 (76%)
16:29:01 <raphael> zakim, ack jcheney
16:29:01 <Zakim> I see Paolo on the speaker queue
16:29:12 <junzhao> paolo: not worried about too many use cases; the more the better since the metrix would be quite complex
16:29:16 <jcheney> zakim, ??P7 is really me
16:29:16 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
16:29:41 <junzhao> s/metrix/matrix
16:30:04 <junzhao> paolo: are there any success stories of provenance
16:30:35 <junzhao> what takes to lead to more success stories?
16:30:49 <Zakim> -paolo
16:30:51 <Deborah> +q
16:31:05 <Paolo> q-
16:31:28 <junzhao> deborah: what should success be?
16:31:34 <Paolo> Deb: yes that would be a success story
16:32:41 <Paolo> "provenance in actual use to realize use cases to users' satisfaction" is what I meant by success stories
16:33:30 <junzhao> deborah: classification of use cases is very important, as learnt from owl use case gathering process
16:33:43 <pgroth> deb's comment jives with luc's comment
16:33:51 <Paolo> Deb: I agree this is a proper use of use case analysis
16:34:10 <Paolo> i.e. technical gap analysis with prioritization
16:34:55 <pgroth> +q
16:35:05 <junzhao> ACTION: yolanda to group current use cases
16:35:05 <trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: No child element named 'id') - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
16:35:10 <Zakim> -??P17
16:35:18 <Paolo> q?
16:35:52 <pgroth> q-
16:36:06 <jcheney> I added some links to furher use case sources to the wiki.
16:36:15 <junzhao> ACTION: YolandaG to group current use cases
16:36:15 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - YolandaG
16:37:12 <Zakim> +??P17
16:38:05 <jmccuske> zakim, ??P17 is jmccuske
16:38:05 <Zakim> +jmccuske; got it
16:38:22 <pgroth> what are the chapters?
16:39:50 <junzhao> luc: the chapter structure might provide some classification
16:40:21 <Paolo> q+
16:40:53 <junzhao> ACTION: YolandaG, Paul and Luc to take a look at the survey paper and present it to the group next week
16:40:53 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - YolandaG,
16:40:54 <Paolo> Yolanda: yes, I would like to be 
16:40:55 <pgroth> should we just do the discussion on the mailing list?
16:41:04 <Deborah> i am happy to be involved in the discussion
16:41:05 <Paolo> q?
16:41:11 <Deborah> q-
16:41:33 <Paolo> q-
16:41:37 <ssahoo2> I would be happy to join the discussion on the use cases
16:41:44 <smiles> q+
16:41:47 <jmccuske> q+
16:41:48 <junzhao> yolanda: what criteria can we use to evaluate a use case
16:42:30 <junzhao> simon: a bit confused by use cases from other working group, since not enough context is there
16:42:39 <jmccuske> q-
16:43:05 <ssahoo2> q+
16:43:06 <Luc> q+
16:43:17 <junzhao> the classification may be used to draw a line on the use cases
16:43:39 <smiles> q-
16:44:06 <junzhao> satya: we should try to refine the quality of the use cases
16:44:40 <junzhao> as part of the evaluation process; try to get the authors involved during the evaluation process
16:45:07 <junzhao> luc: following on simon. have a small committee to review use cases, and provide constructive comments for improvement
16:45:15 <Paolo> q+
16:45:36 <ssahoo2> ack ssahoo
16:45:49 <pgroth> ack Luc
16:45:58 <junzhao> paolo: having members from the group to take charge on the quality control
16:46:09 <pgroth> q+
16:46:13 <pgroth> q-
16:46:39 <junzhao> zakim, who is here?
16:46:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see YolandaG, junzhao, ??P2, Irini, pgroth, smiles, +238059aaaa, +49.308.385.aabb, raphael (muted), Joshua, olaf, Ivan, ??P15 (muted), Prateek, ??P21,
16:46:42 <Zakim> ... bertrand_lutaesc, deb, jcheney, jmccuske
16:46:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see jmccuske, Deborah, DeborahMcGuinness, afreitas, Paulo, Joshua, jcheney, pgroth, smiles, Luc, Irini, olaf, Paolo, YolandaG, raphael, Zakim, RRSAgent, junzhao, ssahoo2,
16:46:46 <ssahoo2> I think Paolo meant - to post a message to the mailing list when items are added to the wiki
16:46:46 <Zakim> ... ivan, trackbot
16:46:59 <pgroth> could do
16:47:07 <junzhao> topic: describe how yourself can contribute to the use cases
16:48:11 <jmccuske> one sec
16:48:45 <junzhao> jmccuske: scientific workflow, biology, general research
16:49:11 <junzhao> deb: categories, intelligence use case, success stories
16:49:23 <junzhao> andrea: trust, linked data, workflows
16:50:53 <junzhao> joshua: elaborate caBIG related use cases, 
16:52:04 <junzhao> james: database provenance; scientific data related;climate changes, climate science
16:52:05 <Paolo> q?
16:52:07 <Deborah> deborah:add proof / explanation reqs.  also reqs from 
16:52:11 <Paolo> q-
16:52:25 <junzhao> pgroth: social science, scientific publication, provenance on the web for web mashups
16:52:36 <Deborah> data.gov provenance
16:52:51 <jmccuske> jmccuske: caBIG related use cases
16:52:52 <junzhao> simon: scientific use cases, humanities possibly; querying large scale provenance; engineer system provenance
16:53:24 <junzhao> luc: provenance on the web; check compliance; provenance for security; interoperability between provenance systems
16:53:54 <junzhao> irini; biology, escience, provenance for linked data, query updates
16:54:12 <junzhao> olaf: information quality for linked data
16:54:31 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:54:40 <Zakim> -raphael
16:54:47 <junzhao> paolo: scientists users, who require semantic tools; query language for provenance
16:54:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html raphael
16:55:43 <junzhao> chris: provenance tracking in mashups and linked data cases
16:55:55 <Zakim> - +49.308.385.aabb
16:56:39 <junzhao> bertram: scientific workflows, linked data
16:57:17 <junzhao> satya: domain semantics in provenance, provenance query, biomedicine, success stories
16:57:37 <ssahoo2> satya: sensor networks
16:57:44 <junzhao> jun: life science, semantic tagging and publishing, scientific workflow, information quality for linked data
16:57:49 <junzhao> zakim, who is here
16:57:49 <Zakim> junzhao, you need to end that query with '?'
16:57:54 <junzhao> zakim, who is here?
16:57:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see YolandaG, junzhao, ??P2, Irini, pgroth, smiles, +238059aaaa, Joshua, olaf, ??P15, Prateek, ??P21, bertrand_lutaesc, deb, jcheney, jmccuske
16:57:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see jmccuske, Deborah, DeborahMcGuinness, afreitas, Joshua, jcheney, pgroth, smiles, Luc, Irini, olaf, Paolo, YolandaG, raphael, Zakim, RRSAgent, junzhao, ssahoo2,
16:58:01 <Zakim> ... trackbot
16:58:02 <Zakim> -Prateek
16:58:04 <Zakim> -pgroth
16:58:05 <Zakim> -Joshua
16:58:05 <pgroth> pgroth has left #prov-xg
16:58:07 <Zakim> -YolandaG
16:58:09 <Zakim> -Irini
16:58:11 <junzhao> rrsagent, create minutes
16:58:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-minutes.html junzhao
16:58:11 <Zakim> -deb
16:58:13 <Zakim> -bertrand_lutaesc
16:58:15 <Zakim> -smiles
16:58:17 <Zakim> -??P15
16:58:18 <jmccuske> jmccuske has left #prov-xg
16:58:22 <Zakim> -jcheney
16:58:23 <Zakim> -olaf
16:58:26 <Zakim> - +238059aaaa
16:58:27 <Zakim> -??P2
16:58:31 <Zakim> -??P21
16:58:41 <Zakim> -junzhao
16:59:34 <Zakim> -jmccuske
16:59:36 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has ended
16:59:38 <Zakim> Attendees were YolandaG, junzhao, Irini, smiles, +238059aaaa, pgroth, +49.308.385.aabb, +95230aacc, Joshua, raphael, +49.302.093.aadd, Ivan, olaf, jcheney, paolo, Prateek,
16:59:41 <Zakim> ... bertrand_lutaesc, deb, jmccuske
17:00:54 <junzhao> rrsagent, please part
17:00:54 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-actions.rdf :
17:00:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: yolanda to group current use cases [1]
17:00:54 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-irc#T16-35-05
17:00:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: YolandaG to group current use cases [2]
17:00:54 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-irc#T16-36-15
17:00:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: YolandaG, Paul and Luc to take a look at the survey paper and present it to the group next week [3]
17:00:54 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/13-prov-xg-irc#T16-40-53