14:00:25 RRSAgent has joined #wam 14:00:25 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-irc 14:00:26 +Art_Barstow 14:00:32 ScribeNick: ArtB 14:00:35 Scribe: Art 14:00:38 Chair: Art 14:00:45 Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference 14:00:51 Date: 12 November 2009 14:01:00 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0631.html 14:01:06 arve has joined #wam 14:01:12 Regrets: Frederick, David 14:01:25 RRSAgent, make log Public 14:01:33 trackbot has joined #wam 14:01:33 Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel 14:01:33 If you want to associate this channel with an existing Tracker, please say 'trackbot, associate this channel with #channel' (where #channel is the name of default channel for the group) 14:01:35 + +49.163.829.aaaa 14:01:48 Zakim, aaaa is marcin 14:01:48 +marcin; got it 14:01:49 trackbot, associate this channel with #webapps 14:01:49 Associating this channel with #webapps... 14:01:58 Present+ Marcin_Hanclik 14:02:26 RRSAgent, make minutes 14:02:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html ArtB 14:04:22 yikes! 14:05:28 + +1.479.524.aabb 14:05:41 zakim, +1.479.524.aabb is me 14:05:41 +Marcos; got it 14:05:49 Present: Art, Marcin, Marcos 14:07:03 Topic: Review and tweak agenda 14:07:09 AB: draft agenda submitted on Nov 11 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0631.html ). 14:07:19 AB: One change request is to add a third topic for the VM-MF spec "more precision on full screen" ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0541.html ). 14:07:39 AB: another change request is to talk briefly about our plans for the P&C Candidate #2 14:07:53 AB: and we will drop 5.b since David won't be here and we'll discuss that topic on next call if it remains open 14:08:11 AB: any other change requests? 14:08:21 [ None ] 14:08:27 Topic: Announcements 14:08:33 AB: any short announcements? I don't have any 14:08:44 [ None ] 14:08:57 Agenda point 5. should point to: http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-vmmf/ 14:08:57 Topic: P&C spec: Constrained specification of 14:09:04 AB: during last week's f2f meeting we discussed an issue that Magnus raised ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0445.html ). Since then, one of his colleagues expanded on their concern via ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0567.html ). 14:09:39 AB: Marcos and I discussed this issue in IRC earlier today. The P&C spec doesn't actually specify what a WUA will do with the icon elements. Thus, it seems like the text about the optional width and height attributes only applying to formats with "intrinsic" width/height can be removed. 14:10:19 AB: what do people think about this issue? 14:10:33 MC: I don't think removing the text would be problematic 14:10:42 ... but I want to review it more thoroughly 14:10:57 ... now, width and height processing is limited 14:11:16 ... WUA are free to interpret w/h as they want 14:11:37 ... thus I think we should remain silent on what the WUA does with these two attributes 14:11:40 +arve 14:11:47 Present+ Arve 14:11:53 AB: Marcin, any comments? 14:11:59 MH: I haven't looked at it yet 14:12:10 arve_ has joined #wam 14:13:05 AB: the action now is for people to respond on the mail list 14:13:19 ... Marcos, will you do that? 14:13:41 MC: yes, but need to check again the proposal 14:13:44 darobin has joined #wam 14:13:49 ... my gut feel is that we should leave this to impl 14:13:58 +??P5 14:14:17 Zakim, mute me 14:14:17 darobin should now be muted 14:14:20 ... but if we delete those two statements, I don't think it will affect implementations 14:14:31 AB: agree on the "will not affect impls" 14:14:51 Zakim, unmute me 14:14:51 darobin should no longer be muted 14:14:59 Present+ Robin 14:15:10 drogersuk has joined #wam 14:15:20 Topic: P&C spec: Candidate publication plans 14:15:45 AB: LCWD#3 comments end on 19 November 14:16:13 ... assuming we get no major comments, we will want to publish CR#2 ASAP 14:16:18 MC: yes, that's correct 14:16:27 AB: I need to schedule a director's call 14:16:32 ... I started that process 14:16:43 ... tentative dates are Nov 23-25 range 14:16:51 MC: those dates are OK with me 14:17:06 ACTION: barstow schedule a Director's Call for P&C CR #2 14:17:06 Created ACTION-451 - Schedule a Director's Call for P&C CR #2 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-11-19]. 14:18:02 RB: we can go to CR while the CfE period is in effect but we can't go to PR until CfE ends 14:18:13 AB: good; I'll clarify that with the Team 14:18:48 ... best case is we enter CR in November 14:19:05 ... CfE ends 28 December 14:19:25 ... still need to determine interop plans 14:19:45 Topic: TWI spec: test suite status 14:20:09 AB: Marcos, you wanted to give a short status on TWI test suite 14:20:15 MC: I've started working on it 14:20:22 ... but haven't uploaded test cases yet 14:20:47 http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/test-suite/ 14:21:02 MC: ignore the doc's title 14:21:16 ... but this document includes the test file template 14:21:39 ... we can gain from the P&C experience 14:21:48 ... should be easier to create tests 14:21:58 ... and provide better feedback on Pass/Fail 14:22:12 ... If people have feedback, please send it! 14:22:20 AB: this is excellent 14:22:53 AB: to clarify, you are OK with going to LC now but don't want to enter CR until the test cases are completed? 14:23:12 MC: yes, that's correct 14:23:32 AB: anything else on the test suite for today? 14:23:41 MC: no, not for now 14:23:50 ... there are only about 10 testable assertions in the spec 14:24:02 ... thus I think there will only be 30-40 test cases 14:24:14 ... so realtively small compared to P&C test suite 14:24:19 AB: ok; good 14:24:29 Topic: TWI spec: Call for consensus to publish LC#2 14:24:40 AB: last week I sent a heads-up that today we would discuss whether or not the TWI spec ( http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api ) is ready to be published as a new LC (LC#2). Comments? 14:25:09 [ None ] 14:25:19 +1 14:25:25 AB: proposed resolution: the group agrees The Widgets Interface spec is ready for LCWD publication 14:25:36 AB: any objections? 14:25:40 [ None ] 14:25:44 RESOLUTION: the group agrees The Widgets Interface spec is ready for LCWD publication 14:25:54 AB: do we want a 3-week comment period? 14:26:21 ... given this is LC#2, I think 3 weeks is OK 14:26:30 MC: ok with me 14:26:36 AB: any other feedback? 14:26:42 MH: ok with me too 14:26:53 AB: we will use a 3-week comment period 14:27:00 AB: who should we ask to review this LC? 14:27:26 ... Marcos, do you recall who we asked to review the 1st LC? 14:27:39 ACTION: barstow determine the list of reviewers for TWI LC#2 14:27:40 Created ACTION-452 - Determine the list of reviewers for TWI LC#2 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-11-19]. 14:27:49 ACTION: barstow submit a publication request for TWI LCWD #2 14:27:49 Created ACTION-453 - Submit a publication request for TWI LCWD #2 [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-11-19]. 14:27:59 ACTION: marcos prepare TWI spec for LCWD #2 publication on Nov 24 with a comment period ending December 15 14:27:59 Created ACTION-454 - Prepare TWI spec for LCWD #2 publication on Nov 24 with a comment period ending December 15 [on Marcos Caceres - due 2009-11-19]. 14:29:00 MC: can we get it published sooner 14:29:23 AB: oops, that's my mistake; the pub date will be Nov 17 14:29:44 ... and the 3-week comment period will end Dec 8 14:29:51 ... Thanks for catching that MC! 14:30:25 Topic: VM-MF spec: issues by Magus 14:30:32 AB: on November 2 Magnus submitted an email re viewmode issues ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0446.html ) 14:31:54 q+ 14:32:03 AB: my comment on point #1 is that the titles for the views carry quite a bit of historical baggage 14:32:15 ... and thus are somewhat confusing 14:32:46 Zakim, who's making noise 14:32:46 I don't understand 'who's making noise', marcin 14:32:58 Zakim, who's making noise? 14:33:01 zakim, who is making noise? 14:33:10 marcin, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Marcos (17%) 14:33:20 arve, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Art_Barstow (4%) 14:33:41 Zakim, mute me 14:33:41 marcin should now be muted 14:33:59 Arve: re point #1 14:34:04 ... this is a legacy issue 14:34:20 ... Opera's initial impl only supported one mode 14:34:28 Benoit has joined #wam 14:35:07 AB: would you please Arve, respond to point #1 on the mail list? 14:35:11 Arve: yes, will do 14:35:25 ACTION Arve respond to point #1 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0446.html 14:35:26 Created ACTION-455 - Respond to point #1 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0446.html [on Arve Bersvendsen - due 2009-11-19]. 14:35:27 Zakim, unmute me 14:35:27 marcin should no longer be muted 14:35:32 zakim, mute me 14:35:32 arve should now be muted 14:35:59 AB: re point #2, is that in scope for VM-I spec? 14:36:02 MH: yes, it is 14:36:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0047.html 14:36:07 zakim, unmute me 14:36:07 arve should no longer be muted 14:36:09 ... I submitted an email about this 14:36:32 Zakim, mute arve 14:36:32 arve should now be muted 14:36:35 MH: we need to discuss what the view modes mean 14:37:09 ... in my email I deteremined quite a large number of possible values 14:37:32 ... I agree "all" could be removed 14:37:43 ... it is the same as not specifying any 14:38:14 +q 14:38:22 -q 14:38:36 Zakim, unmute arve 14:38:36 arve should no longer be muted 14:38:50 AB: re point #3, Marcos responded but Magnus did not reply 14:39:08 Arve: re point #2, the VM spec doesn't include any sec considerations 14:39:39 ... and that's a bug, especially for full screen 14:39:47 David here 14:39:54 I proposed some security considerations 14:39:54 AB: we will discuss VM-MF sec concerns next week 14:40:05 I'm here - happy to discuss now 14:40:11 can't join the call though 14:40:24 david - can you join the call next week? 14:40:40 I'd rather discuss this when we can talk about it. OK? 14:40:42 yes but I'd prefer we agree this now 14:40:58 I put it into the F2F and that was over a week ago 14:41:01 we decided at the beginning of the week to not include this today 14:41:06 Why? 14:41:33 because "I'd rather discuss this when we can talk about it." 14:41:44 ok, let me leave the meeting and join the call 14:41:47 let's do it now 14:41:56 Arve: I will respond to Magnus mail 14:42:00 AB: OK 14:42:14 Topic: VM-MF spec: more precision on full screen 14:42:17 + +7.771.83.aacc 14:42:25 AB: an old thread was re-started about the viewmodes, in particular the full screen mode ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0541.html ). Marcos, Robin? 14:42:33 zakim, mute Arve 14:42:33 arve should now be muted 14:42:52 AB: where do we stand on this? 14:42:56 present+ David_Rogers 14:43:04 MC: I think we agree we need to define base semantics to each mode 14:43:31 ... with each mode there are some potential security implications 14:43:52 ... our discussion was about to what level of detail the modes must be defined 14:44:36 RB: nothing else to add; agree with Marcos' summary 14:45:00 AB: have we captured all of the relevant properties? 14:45:11 ... is the set of properties complete? 14:45:28 MH: we may have some issues with full screen and the properties 14:45:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0047.html 14:46:53 MH: we may need another property 14:47:58 ... we have one media feature now but maybe we need more than one 14:48:55 ... otherwise, we may have some border cases that aren't defined 14:49:16 MC: at the f2f I proposed a viewport media rul 14:49:25 s/media rul/media rule/ 14:49:37 ... I need to formalize that proposal 14:49:51 ... I don't understand the interactivity proposal 14:50:03 arve, probably yes 14:50:39 q+ 14:50:57 zakim, unmute arve 14:50:57 arve should no longer be muted 14:51:29 Arve: re interactivity, either the media is interactive or not (e.g. print or screen) 14:51:54 ... think we should ask AnneVK 14:52:01 q+ 14:52:06 ... not sure how to specify this or if we should specify it 14:52:48 AB: can you Arve chat with Anne about this? 14:52:53 Arve: yes, ok 14:52:55 Zakim, mute me 14:52:55 arve should now be muted 14:53:55 AB: so there is an open action for all to continue discussions and for Marcin to drive toward closure on the open issues 14:54:08 MH: yes, and I will start by removing all to align with P&C 14:54:21 Topic: VM-MF spec: security considerations by Davi 14:54:26 d 14:54:47 AB: View modes security considerations; David Rogers (2-Nov) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0438.html 14:55:04 AB: David? 14:55:32 DR: this is an input for the VM-MF spec 14:55:49 MH: I can add this info 14:56:12 DR: I presented it at the f2 14:56:22 ... not clear why we need to wait for ratification 14:56:59 AB: the general process is if there is no discussion on an input then we add it to the agenda 14:57:13 MC: have you looked at the sec consids in the P&C spec? 14:57:28 DR: yes; tried to align it with what is in the P&C spec 14:57:56 ... understand we want a sec consids section per spec 14:58:01 http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/#media-type-registration-for-applicationw 14:58:26 MC: we had to do it for P&C because of the IETF req for that info be in the P&C for the MT reg 14:58:42 DR: I will need to look at it 14:59:05 MC: the deadline is Nov 19 14:59:11 ... for P&C LC#3 comments 14:59:44 DR: does anyone object to my input? 14:59:50 MC: we have no objections 14:59:58 ... think we need considerations per view mode 15:00:16 ... i.e. "these are the sec consids" for fullscreen, etc. 15:00:23 ... we can build on your input 15:00:44 DR: I'm happy if the Editor will add my input 15:00:46 - +7.771.83.aacc 15:01:00 AB: anything else on this topic? 15:01:17 Topic: WARP spec: IRI normalization 15:01:27 AB: on November 2, Dom submitted two comments re the WARP spec ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0442.html and ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0443.html ). 15:02:02 AB: any feedback on Dom's comments? 15:02:43 ACTION darobin respond to Dom's two comments about WARP submitted on Nov 2 15:02:44 Created ACTION-456 - Respond to Dom's two comments about WARP submitted on Nov 2 [on Robin Berjon - due 2009-11-19]. 15:03:15 MC: are there any updates to WARP spec? 15:03:22 RB: not since TPAC 15:03:46 MC: when will it be ready for review? 15:03:53 RB: please review ASAP 15:04:20 AB: last week I sent out a call for comments 15:04:36 ... we can set aside a big chunk of time on Nov 19 for WARP if needed 15:04:43 Topic: WARP spec: comments from Bryan 15:04:50 AB: on November 2, Bryan submitted some comments re WARP ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0437.html ). Marcos and Bryan have been going back and forth on this. 15:05:05 Benoit_ has joined #wam 15:05:20 AB: without Bryan here, not sure we should deep dive on this 15:05:26 MC: Marcin also responded 15:05:31 MH: yes, I did 15:05:40 MC: would be good if Robin also responded 15:05:50 RB: yes, I'll get to that 15:06:01 AB: let's skip this topic for today ... 15:06:09 Topic: WARP spec: local addresses and UPnP 15:06:16 AB: on November 2, Marcin submitted some comments comments re WARP and local addressees and UPnP ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0456.html ) 15:07:13 MH: we talked about UPnP a bit during last week's f2f meeting 15:07:46 ... we may want to add some additional support for local hosts 15:07:55 ... support private IP ranges 15:08:17 ... local nets with IPv6 can be problematic 15:08:52 ... IPv6 provides a means to know if an address is local 15:09:09 ... want to make the spec future-proof 15:09:30 MikeSmith has joined #wam 15:09:38 zakim, unmute 15:09:38 I don't understand 'unmute', arve 15:09:41 zakim, unmute me 15:09:41 arve should no longer be muted 15:09:50 AB: who can we ask to review this proposal? 15:09:56 MH: perhaps some IETF people 15:10:25 Arve: I think we need an agreement within the group before talking to IETF 15:10:45 ... I need some time to understand MH's proposal 15:11:10 AB: can you get some comments within 1 week Arve? 15:11:14 Arve: yes 15:11:18 zakim, mute me 15:11:18 arve should now be muted 15:11:51 AB: all should send comments to the list 15:11:59 ... if needed, we can discuss this next week 15:12:16 AB: anything else on this topic? 15:12:18 [ No ] 15:12:31 Topic: URI Scheme spec: LC comment processing 15:12:37 AB: the LC comment period for the 8-Oct-2009 URI Scheme LC ( http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-widgets-uri-20091008/ ) ended on November 10. I believe there was only one comment. Robin, what's the plan for responding? 15:13:08 RB: yes, just the one comment from Larry Masinter 15:13:25 ... I haven't yet responded to him but will do so 15:13:33 ACTION: barstow create a Comment Tracking Doc for the 8-Oct-2009 Widget URI LC 15:13:33 Created ACTION-457 - Create a Comment Tracking Doc for the 8-Oct-2009 Widget URI LC [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-11-19]. 15:14:10 AB: after Robin replies to LM, please follow-up if you have additional comments 15:14:31 Topic: AOB 15:14:37 AB: I don't have anything for today. Does anyone have any AOB for today? 15:14:50 [ No ] 15:14:52 AB: meeting adjourned 15:15:05 -darobin 15:15:06 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:15:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-minutes.html ArtB 15:15:07 -Marcos 15:15:11 -Art_Barstow 15:15:22 -marcin 15:15:44 MoZ has joined #wam 15:20:24 disconnecting the lone participant, arve, in IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM 15:20:25 IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended 15:20:26 Attendees were Art_Barstow, +49.163.829.aaaa, marcin, Marcos, arve, darobin, +7.771.83.aacc 15:22:33 zakim, bye 15:22:33 Zakim has left #wam 15:22:37 rrsagent, bye 15:22:37 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-actions.rdf : 15:22:37 ACTION: barstow schedule a Director's Call for P&C CR #2 [1] 15:22:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-irc#T14-17-06 15:22:37 ACTION: barstow determine the list of reviewers for TWI LC#2 [2] 15:22:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-irc#T14-27-39 15:22:37 ACTION: barstow submit a publication request for TWI LCWD #2 [3] 15:22:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-irc#T14-27-49 15:22:37 ACTION: marcos prepare TWI spec for LCWD #2 publication on Nov 24 with a comment period ending December 15 [4] 15:22:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-irc#T14-27-59 15:22:37 ACTION: barstow create a Comment Tracking Doc for the 8-Oct-2009 Widget URI LC [5] 15:22:37 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/12-wam-irc#T15-13-33