14:44:00 RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
14:44:00 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-irc
14:44:02 RRSAgent, make logs public
14:44:02 Zakim has joined #xhtml
14:44:04 Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
14:44:04 ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:44:05 Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:44:05 Date: 11 November 2009
14:44:41 IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
14:44:46 Steven: then I've not ... bah. Be right there.
14:44:48 +Gregory_Rosmaita
14:45:06 alessio has joined #xhtml
14:45:22 zakim, dial steven-617
14:45:22 ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:45:23 +Steven
14:45:26 agenda request - XHTML Role and ARIA and extension of roles in aria and expansion of pre-defined roles, in particular "form"
14:45:42 Zakim, code?
14:45:42 the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Tina
14:46:02 zakim, who is here?
14:46:02 On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven
14:46:03 On IRC I see alessio, Zakim, RRSAgent, oedipus, Steven, markbirbeck, Tina, trackbot
14:46:17 +Tina
14:46:29 using the web based IRC client, so not very feedback
14:46:40 ShaneM has joined #xhtml
14:46:48 +??P2
14:47:01 zakim, +??P2 is Alessio
14:47:01 sorry, alessio, I do not recognize a party named '+??P2'
14:47:06 zakim, ??P2 is Alessio
14:47:06 +Alessio; got it
14:47:37 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Nov/0000
14:48:02 +McCarron
14:48:30 addition of the term "form" as a predefined role for the XHTML2 Role Module: XHTML2 WG ISSUE-5: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/issues/5
14:48:30 -McCarron
14:48:42 low tech crap
14:48:56 +McCarron
14:49:06 shane's proposal in email archive: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Apr/0055.html
14:49:09 -Steven
14:49:13 My phone died
14:49:35 zakim, dial steven-617
14:49:35 ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:49:36 +Steven
14:50:15 zakim, drop steven
14:50:15 Steven is being disconnected
14:50:16 -Steven
14:50:19 we got your voice mail. lol
14:50:32 zakim, dial steven-617
14:50:32 ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:50:34 +Steven
14:51:11 again
14:51:21 best thing about the cold is you can always get warmer, can only do so much oneself to cool
14:51:28 zakim, drop steven
14:51:28 Steven is being disconnected
14:51:29 -Steven
14:52:07 zakim, code?
14:52:07 the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven
14:52:22 +Steven
14:52:35 -Steven
14:53:29 zakim, dial steven-617
14:53:29 ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:53:31 +Steven
14:53:51 XHTML Role agenda addendum
14:53:56 1. extensibility and ARIA
14:54:01 2. expansion of predefined role (in particular, "form")
14:54:05 3. exact relationship between ARIA and XHTML Role (ARIA LC Comments from XHTML2)
14:54:28 -McCarron
14:54:42 its a conspriacy
14:54:49 :D
14:54:57 Agenda+Announcements
14:55:08 Agenda+DOM3 Events
14:55:13 Agenda+PERs
14:55:21 Agenda+ARIA
14:55:24 +ShaneM
14:55:39 Agenda+XHTML2
14:55:52 zakim, next agendum
14:55:52 agendum 1. "Announcements" taken up [from Steven]
14:56:04 scribe: Steven
14:57:09 SP: last week TPAC 2009 -- not very much to report -- relation to this WG, one HTML5 discussion on distributed extensibility - only discussed issues we knew about, no action items assigned - 2 sides expanding their positions without agreement on how to procede
14:57:36 SP: continuing stream of discussions we've been having at the last several TPACs -- disappointed at lack of traction
14:57:57 i/SP: last/ScribeNick: oedipus
14:58:43 GJR: there is now a HTML5 - PF HTML5 Accessibility Task Force
14:59:28 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
15:00:10 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/
15:00:15 oedipus: noticed that. Disappointed.
15:01:13 zakim, next agendum
15:01:13 agendum 2. "DOM3 Events" taken up [from Steven]
15:01:26 SP: web content transformation needs to be reviewed -- by me
15:01:47 SP: now Oasis member - will keep WG updated
15:02:01 SP: emessage from Doug Schepers about changes to DOM3 events
15:02:20 SP: XML Events now uses DOM2 so not particularly germane
15:02:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Oct/0016
15:02:36 SP: still anyone interested should review
15:02:49 SP: Forms WG is planning on taking XML Events 2 on board
15:02:56 SP: PERs - no progress
15:03:16 SP: sent email to Ralph & PLH to re-draw attention to requests
15:03:49 SM: cannot finish our work before end of term of WG
15:04:45 SP: needs thought and discussion - will fire up email to R & PLH to say we can't meet deadlines because of delay in feedback and a stopper in the process
15:05:25 i/SP: PERs/topic: PERs
15:05:31 rrsagent, make minutes
15:05:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:06:18 topic: XHTML Role and ARIA
15:06:23 Scribe: Steven
15:06:33 Gregory: THere are 3 issues
15:06:38 s/TH/Th/
15:06:50 ... first the ARIA extensibility, using @role
15:07:00 ... we need to be more specific about extensibility
15:07:14 ... we want to point to XHTML role
15:07:39 Steven: We need someone to take over role
15:07:51 ... couls you not do that?
15:08:02 s/couls/could/
15:08:20 Shane: I will do the work, but we need a WG
15:08:41 Gewgory: I am also working on the access module
15:08:51 ... for HTML5
15:09:12 Shane: Manu in RDFa has created a way of making modules for HTML5
15:09:21 Gregory: Can you send me a pointer?
15:09:49 Steven: Woyuld the WAI group take role over?
15:10:01 s/Woy/Wo
15:10:09 Gregory: PF meets at 12
15:10:43 ... if ARIA follows role extensibility, we would need to be able to point to it
15:11:04 Steven: Either copy the content or take over the role spec
15:11:35 Role can refer to the CURIE definition in RDFa - it is normative and already a rec
15:11:41 Action: Gregory to ask WAI PF if they want to take on the role spec
15:11:41 Created ACTION-101 - Ask WAI PF if they want to take on the role spec [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-11-18].
15:12:06 Gergory: THis helps is with the third point
15:12:11 s/TH/Th/
15:12:40 ... the last issue I have, on predefined roles, can be answered later
15:12:49 ... I see value in having a role module
15:13:24 ... I want role to be a real module so that it isn't just seen as an accessibility hook
15:13:34 ... it can help with loads of other things
15:13:56 I wonder if it makes sense to define role-related extensions to rdfa?
15:14:09 zakim, next agendum
15:14:09 agendum 3. "PERs" taken up [from Steven]
15:14:15 zakim, next agendum
15:14:15 agendum 3 was just opened, oedipus
15:14:38 zakim, agend?
15:14:38 I don't understand your question, Steven.
15:14:40 zakim, agendum 5
15:14:40 I don't understand 'agendum 5', oedipus
15:14:42 zakim, agenda?
15:14:42 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:14:42 3. PERs [from Steven]
15:14:43 4. ARIA [from Steven]
15:14:43 5. XHTML2 [from Steven]
15:14:55 zakim, drop agendum 3
15:14:55 agendum 3, PERs, dropped
15:15:14 zakim, take up agendum 5
15:15:14 agendum 5. "XHTML2" taken up [from Steven]
15:15:23 scribenick: oedipus
15:15:35 SP: have a draft - thanks to shane for completing latest draft
15:15:48 SP: what do we as WG need to do to publish as final note, shane?
15:16:34 SM: [ponders] - aside from changing text to say "Note", also need to change Status section
15:16:49 SM: no technical work needed for Note
15:17:13 SP: list of open issues - keep them or dispose of them through pass-off? change status to say work will continue elsewhere?
15:17:18 SM: does W3C know that
15:17:21 SP: told them
15:18:05 SM: what to put in status section
15:18:13 SP: if note, prefer to dispose of issues first
15:18:18 SM: we can do that
15:18:37 Wouldn't publish with the issues embedded.
15:19:43 proposed resolution: XHTML 2 will be a Note; Status of Document to change to reflect that work will continue elsewhere
15:22:23 http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/
15:23:08 "Implementors should be aware that this specification is not stable. Implementors who are not taking part in the discussions are likely to find the specification changing out from under them in incompatible ways. Vendors interested in implementing this specification before it eventually reaches the Candidate Recommendation stage should join the aforementioned mailing lists and take part in the discussions."
15:24:15 RESOLVED: XHTML2 will be a W3C Note; accordingly the Status of this Document section will be updated to reflect change
15:24:20 rrsagent, make minute
15:24:20 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minute', oedipus. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:24:30 rrsagent, make minutes
15:24:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
15:26:10 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/XHTML2/pre_obsolete
15:29:03 "Optimally, one would want to use a character entity code to indicate a TAB or multiple TABs, as some programming languages use TAB delineation, and the purpose of CODE and BLOCKCODE is to ENSURE that any user can copy and paste the sample of CODE, with whitespaces and explicitly declared TABs preserved."
15:29:54 PROPOSED 2: That the definition of CODE and BLOCKCODE be amended to indicate that whitespace, line breaks, and other "layout" compenents contained within CODE or BLOCKCODE is intended to be preserved, and that all current references to the PRE element be removed. An authoring tool could very easily translate individual spaces and other dilimeters (such as TAB) into the UTF-8 codes for a non-breaking whitespace and/or a TAB or TABs. This is also a strategy whi
15:30:36 SP: haven't heard what real damage pre does that anything else would solve?
15:30:59 SP: in favor of people being able to work with XHTML2 - PRE syntaxtic sugar, but familiar
15:32:31 GJR: for code and programming samples, should use CODE or BLOCKCODE
15:33:26 SP: taking PRE away will not cause solution to happen - nothing in replacement for PRE which will change current usage patterns
15:34:14 treat PRE in XHTML2 the way that blockquote for style was treated in HTML 4.01 -- deprecated for indentation purposes
15:34:43 SP: PRE as generic container can be ill used, but if take away people will use P with layout attribute
15:34:45 AC: agree
15:34:48 GJR: understood
15:35:30 SP: agree that PRE has problem being rendered by assistive tech, but eliminating PRE won't solve the problem GJR pointed out
15:36:01 SP: not in favor of taking out PRE
15:36:13 GJR: we currently have PRE, CODE, BLOCKCODE, and SAMP
15:36:18 SP: SAMP is inline
15:36:39 GJR: will port issue to further work on XHTML2 when that work is consumated
15:36:56 ACTION: Shane to produce a note version of XHTML 2
15:36:56 Created ACTION-102 - Produce a note version of XHTML 2 [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-11-18].
15:37:23 -ShaneM
15:37:24 -Steven
15:37:25 -Tina
15:37:28 -Alessio
15:37:34 rrsagent, make minutes
15:37:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:37:46 zakim, who is here?
15:37:46 On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita
15:37:47 On IRC I see ShaneM, alessio, Zakim, RRSAgent, oedipus, Steven, markbirbeck, Tina, trackbot
15:37:52 SM: anyone with earthshattering changes to XHTML2 as currently defined in the draft are requested to email shane and the list before change to note
15:37:53 zakim, dro pgregory
15:37:53 I don't understand 'dro pgregory', Steven
15:37:59 -Gregory_Rosmaita
15:38:00 IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
15:38:01 Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, Tina, Alessio, McCarron, ShaneM
15:38:09 rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:38:40 chair: Steven
15:38:51 rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
15:53:30 ShaneM has left #xhtml
16:04:52 oedipus has joined #xhtml