15:58:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:58:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-irc
15:58:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7994
15:58:51 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:58:52 <trackbot> Date: 11 November 2009
15:59:22 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
15:59:22 <Zakim> sorry, MacTed, I do not recognize a party named 'Kingsley_Idehen'
15:59:42 <hhalpin> agenda+ Convene SWXG WG  meeting of 2009-11-11T16:00-17:00GMT
15:59:53 <hhalpin> agenda+ Report-back on Last week!
15:59:59 <hhalpin> agenda+ General Organization
16:00:02 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:05 <hhalpin> agenda+ Invited Guest Invitations
16:00:07 <Zakim> + +39.011.228.aaaa
16:00:09 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
16:00:11 <hhalpin> agenda+ User Stories
16:00:21 <hhalpin> agenda+ Invited Speaker: Elias Bizannes from DataPortability.org
16:00:22 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
16:00:22 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
16:00:25 <Zakim> + +1.785.583.aabb
16:00:31 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed
16:00:31 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:00:32 <Zakim> +Adam
16:00:33 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:00:33 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:00:43 <tinkster> zakim, aabb is me
16:00:43 <Zakim> +tinkster; got it
16:00:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:59 <Adam> Adam has joined #swxg
16:01:04 <rreck> zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
16:01:04 <Zakim> sorry, rreck, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
16:01:10 <rreck> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:01:11 <Zakim> +rreck; got it
16:01:15 <claudio> zakim, aaaa is me
16:01:15 <Zakim> +claudio; got it
16:01:23 <rreck> zakim, mute me
16:01:23 <Zakim> rreck should now be muted
16:01:38 <Zakim> +??P9
16:02:17 <Adam> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), ??P9
16:02:46 <melvster> zakim, ??P9 is me
16:02:46 <Zakim> +melvster; got it
16:02:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:03:13 <DKA> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
16:03:13 <Zakim> +DKA; got it
16:03:18 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
16:03:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), melvster, DKA
16:03:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see Adam, RRSAgent, danbri_, rreck, melvster, hhalpin, timbl, oshani, MacTed, claudio, DKA, FabGandon, tinkster, karl, Zakim, trackbot
16:03:44 <Zakim> +??P15
16:03:49 <hhalpin> Zakim, P15 is hhalpin
16:03:49 <Zakim> sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'P15'
16:04:00 <hhalpin> Zakim, ??P15 is hhalpin
16:04:00 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
16:04:00 <tinkster> very quiet.
16:04:08 <DKA> zakim, ??P15 is hhalpin
16:04:08 <Zakim> I already had ??P15 as hhalpin, DKA
16:04:26 <Zakim> -hhalpin
16:04:49 <rreck> staring Zakim
16:05:07 <Zakim> + +7.717.88.aacc
16:05:13 <rreck> LOL
16:05:16 <rreck> better
16:05:20 <DKA> zakim, aacc is harry
16:05:20 <Zakim> +harry; got it
16:05:29 <hhalpin> Zakim, aacc is hhalpin
16:05:29 <Zakim> sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
16:05:38 <martin_h> martin_h has joined #swxg
16:05:46 <DKA> Scribe: Dan
16:05:47 <hhalpin> Zakim, next agendum
16:05:49 <Zakim> agendum 19. "Convene SWXG WG  meeting of 2009-11-11T16:00-17:00GMT" taken up [from hhalpin]
16:05:50 <DKA> ScribeNick: DKA
16:05:57 <tinkster> Starring Zakim as Felicity de Montfort, wealthy heiress to a vast oil fortune... but with a dark secret in her past.
16:06:06 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 28st October 2009 as a true record
16:06:13 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html
16:06:20 <Adam> +1
16:06:21 <rreck> +1
16:06:22 <tinkster> +1
16:06:23 <melvster> +1
16:06:24 <DKA> +1
16:06:47 <hhalpin> RESOLVED: approved SWXG WG Weekly -- 28st October 2009 as a true record
16:06:52 <tinkster> There was definitely some stuff chatted here.
16:06:57 <Adam> think rigo did some of the rssagent stuff
16:07:06 <tinkster> My IRC client will have logged them somewhere.
16:07:19 <hhalpin> RESOLVED: to meet again Wed. November 18th
16:07:25 <Zakim> +??P21
16:07:34 <hhalpin> Zakim, next agendum
16:07:34 <Zakim> agendum 20. "Report-back on Last week!" taken up [from hhalpin]
16:07:51 <tinkster> http://www.w3.org/2009/11/03-swxg-irc
16:08:00 <hhalpin> scribenick: hhalpin
16:08:24 <Adam> was in shackles
16:08:27 <hhalpin> Tragically, Henry Story was detained by immigration officials
16:08:46 <rreck> never to return
16:08:55 <hhalpin> DKA: he's back in europe now but had to miss Social Web Camp
16:09:23 <hhalpin> ... but nonetheless made a lot of progress last week.
16:09:25 <Adam> many thanks to DKA for organizing the Social Web Camp
16:09:28 <hhalpin> ... good sessions on Social Web Camp
16:09:30 <danbri> danbri has joined #swxg
16:09:37 <hhalpin> ... guy from Salmon Protocol
16:09:39 <danbri> (i joined 2 mins ago but was off irc)
16:09:48 <hhalpin> ... talked about FOAF+SSL 
16:09:56 <danbri> zakim, ??P21 is danbri
16:09:56 <Zakim> +danbri; got it
16:10:00 <tinkster> zakim, danbri is ??P21
16:10:00 <Zakim> +??P21; got it
16:10:18 <hhalpin> ... quite a technical crowd
16:10:22 <hhalpin> ... Linden Labs guy
16:10:27 <hhalpin> ... good international crowd, Symbian
16:10:32 <hhalpin> s/Symbian/Fabien
16:10:40 <hhalpin> DKA: was very helpful.
16:10:42 <Adam> john panzer: http://www.abstractioneer.org/2009/10/salmon-protocol-introducing-salmon.html
16:11:18 <hhalpin> ACTION: DKA to send notes to camp to Social Web XG wiki  and BarCamp.org
16:11:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-105 - Send notes to camp to Social Web XG wiki  and BarCamp.org [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-11-18].
16:11:32 <hhalpin> DKA: On Tuesday, we had a very productive XG meeting.
16:11:48 <hhalpin> ... TimBL participated most of the day on Tuesday
16:12:04 <hhalpin> ... focus on use-cases
16:12:26 <hhalpin> ... fleshed out provenance social networks and provenance
16:12:29 <hhalpin> ... managing relationships
16:12:38 <hhalpin> ... moving data
16:12:49 <hhalpin> ... we added user-stories
16:12:52 <hhalpin> ... take-down
16:12:54 <hhalpin> q+
16:13:06 <hhalpin> ... pretty happy with work we have done
16:13:16 <danbri> (all sounds v fun, sorry i couldn't make the trip)
16:13:38 <hhalpin> ... these stories differentiate us quite a bit from other inputs
16:13:43 <hhalpin> ... didn't get into architecture that much
16:13:54 <hhalpin> ... did have some discussion around architecture
16:13:58 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:13:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), melvster, DKA, harry, ??P21
16:14:12 <hhalpin> ... self-proclaimed piece of software
16:14:21 <hhalpin> ... timbl would want us to think about it from a linked data perspective
16:14:57 <hhalpin> ... our use-cases determine social networks as we know them today
16:15:06 <hhalpin> ... but we can merge that with a linked data approach.
16:16:07 <hhalpin> ACTION: DKA to write-up output of XG meeting next Tuesday
16:16:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-106 - Write-up output of XG meeting next Tuesday [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-11-18].
16:16:13 <Adam> can or should the output of the camp be put on the eventbrite site? or on our w3c wiki page?
16:16:19 <hhalpin> both I think!
16:16:22 <hhalpin> or at least linked.
16:16:30 <DKA> q?
16:16:33 <DKA> ack hh
16:17:12 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
16:17:30 <Adam> some back pages
16:18:40 <hhalpin> DKA: All work done in wiki
16:18:54 <hhalpin> ... panel went well
16:19:07 <hhalpin> ... thanks to Adam, David, Fabien
16:19:31 <hhalpin> ... David clarify why OWF and PortableContacts happening outside W3C
16:19:40 <hhalpin> ... W3C lots of talk about opening up, extending XG process
16:20:03 <hhalpin> ... lots of work there
16:20:20 <Adam> tech plenary agenda with link to slides: http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/PlenaryAgenda
16:20:22 <hhalpin> ... ian jacobs and other talked to david after panel.
16:20:31 <danbri> are david's slides around?
16:20:37 <hhalpin> ... david ended on a slide of why Facebook should join W3C?
16:20:47 <Adam> i haven't seen them out there danbri
16:20:50 <hhalpin> ... reminded me of why Google joined w3c
16:21:06 <hhalpin> I believe Facebook and W3C are in talks now re joining.
16:21:40 <hhalpin> ... Kevin Marks talking about OpenStack
16:21:40 <danbri> interesting question of whether to present it as a duty (for those that make millions from the Web); vs a biz opportunity
16:21:46 <danbri> (or some awkward combination of both)
16:23:06 <hhalpin> scribenick: DKA
16:23:14 <hhalpin> Zakim, next agendum
16:23:14 <Zakim> agendum 21. "General Organization" taken up [from hhalpin]
16:23:46 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html
16:24:10 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/PlenaryAgenda - tech plenary agenda from last week - no link for David's slides yet - I will ping Ian or someone...
16:24:51 <DKA> Scribe: Dan
16:24:54 <DKA> ScribeNick: DKA
16:24:56 <hhalpin> next week open
16:25:03 <rreck> 1+ "finish" userstories
16:25:05 <hhalpin> for user-stories
16:25:37 <martin_h> martin_h has joined #swxg
16:25:39 <DKA> Harry: We're getting to the point where we can start writing the final report.
16:25:59 <danbri> i'll try to take a look at final report structure, and with chasing up the widgets stuff ...
16:26:16 <rreck> i dont mind helping
16:26:30 <danbri> i think having co-chairs edit is fine for an xg
16:26:41 <danbri> so long as we push other things to companion docs
16:28:22 <hhalpin> # [CONTINUES] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members.
16:28:29 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION:Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.
16:28:31 <rreck> at a lower level zakim sucks
16:28:35 <Zakim> + +41.41.599.0aadd
16:28:39 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION: Adam to write up Matt Lee's talk
16:28:53 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION:mtuffied to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies.
16:29:54 <rreck> i just think zakim could be a little more forgiving
16:30:05 <hhalpin> Zakim, go to agendum 25
16:30:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'go to agendum 25', hhalpin
16:30:06 <DKA> Harry: [Introducing Elias Bizannes from Data-Portability.org]
16:30:18 <DKA> Harry: Can you introduce Data-Portability.org?
16:30:26 <hhalpin> move to agendum 25
16:30:28 <hhalpin> move to agendum 24
16:31:36 <DKA> Elias: The long-term goal is putting the focus on policy, education.
16:31:56 <DKA> ScribeNick: hhalpin
16:32:00 <DKA> Scribe: Harry
16:32:21 <hhalpin> Elias: dataportability.org has evolved into a user based organization
16:32:31 <hhalpin> ... to standardize the language end-users see across social networks
16:33:03 <hhalpin> ... the form it would take
16:33:12 <hhalpin> ... would be specific relationships with companies
16:33:18 <hhalpin> ... that could then use EULA
16:33:29 <hhalpin> ... so that the companies take specific committments
16:33:50 <hhalpin> ... provided that, say, APIs are documented and in public
16:34:07 <hhalpin> ... we understand that companies are in different situations
16:34:43 <hhalpin> ... that this will be most effective way of getting data portability off the ground
16:34:56 <Zakim> - +41.41.599.0aadd
16:35:05 <rreck> it was very hard to hear him
16:35:26 <danbri> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:35:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), melvster, DKA, harry, ??P21
16:35:34 <Zakim> + +01415990aaee
16:35:49 <hhalpin> q+
16:38:30 <hhalpin> hhalpin: do you deal with privacy? when are these done?
16:38:35 <hhalpin> Elias: We do care about privacy
16:38:51 <hhalpin> ... but we aren't dealing with the specific technologies
16:39:47 <hhalpin> DKA: we have been discussing the fact that people aren't reading licenses
16:40:47 <hhalpin> Elias: so we're working on basic rights
16:41:11 <hhalpin> ... but it states what we think people are entitled to
16:41:12 <danbri> related work elsewhere: http://opensocialweb.org/2007/09/05/bill-of-rights/ (Authored by Joseph Smarr, Marc Canter, Robert Scoble, and Michael Arrington) "A Bill of Rights for Users of the Social Web"
16:41:54 <DKA> http://www.dataportability.org/
16:41:57 <hhalpin> ... basically helps user understand the landscape of options
16:42:23 <hhalpin> ... we want it to be machine readable using RDF
16:43:08 <hhalpin> danbri: any connection to jsmarr's work?
16:43:11 <hhalpin> q+
16:44:10 <hhalpin> Elias: we will consider it it's good but we want something we can deploy more options, not just one
16:44:54 <DKA> ack hh
16:46:04 <Zakim> -harry
16:46:07 <Zakim> - +01415990aaee
16:46:23 <danbri> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:46:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), melvster, DKA, ??P21
16:46:27 <MacTed> not quite everyone
16:46:28 <Zakim> + +01415990aaff
16:46:34 <MacTed> :-)
16:46:55 <hhalpin> did I just drop?
16:47:12 <hhalpin> DKA, could you ask the question
16:47:23 <hhalpin> "How Can W3C Help a group like DataPortability.org?"
16:47:28 <hhalpin> I'll be back in a sec...
16:49:01 <DKA> Elias: Best think W3C could do is to give some honest feedback on the work...
16:49:07 <DKA> Elias: We want more smart people....
16:49:14 <rreck> good question
16:49:15 <DKA> DKA: What's the participation model?
16:49:50 <DKA> Elias: The way the project work is through task forces - work by consensus...
16:50:04 <DKA> Elias: Off of IIW we have 15 people who have shown interested in participation in some way.
16:50:24 <DKA> Elias: Best way to get involved is to contact me. We need to take these drafts into a more formal document..
16:50:57 <hhalpin> We need precise URIs to review the document, or access to Google Docs of course.
16:51:05 <DKA> DKA: is there any costs?
16:51:23 <DKA> DKA: If I wanted to launch a SN tomorrow with the DP trustmark what do I need to do?
16:51:49 <DKA> Elias: We are a Non-profit. The governance model of the project is voluntary based with no membership fees. Fully transparent.
16:52:15 <DKA> Elias: We don't need money. We don't have an incentive to get a memebrship model with fees.
16:52:30 <DKA> Elias: In terms of using the logo and the EULA work there will be no cost...
16:52:34 <rreck> very cool
16:53:38 <Zakim> + +31.31.208.aagg
16:53:45 <hhalpin> Zakim, aagg is hhalpin
16:53:45 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
16:53:50 <hhalpin> scribenick: hhalpin
16:53:58 <hhalpin> ... is there a compliance mechanism?
16:54:08 <hhalpin> ... how can transfer it easily?
16:54:36 <DKA> DKA: Is there a compliance mechanism / GPL-like requirements on the use of the logo / EULA?
16:55:02 <hhalpin> it's their incentive to do the truth
16:55:08 <hhalpin> Elias: our branding is minimized
16:55:10 <DKA> Elias: We have worried about this - we don't want our brand to be misused.
16:55:17 <hhalpin> ... we just want the company itself to do open disclosure
16:55:53 <hhalpin> no real final questions from me.
16:56:17 <hhalpin> DKA: do we have any specific networks that are signed up?
16:56:27 <hhalpin> Elias: We've been hiding away, not drawing attention to it.
16:56:33 <hhalpin> ... we're had some dialogue
16:56:36 <hhalpin> ... mostly informal
16:56:36 <danbri> is the eula url handy?
16:56:46 <hhalpin> ... we have lots of relationships with prominent vendors.
16:56:57 <hhalpin> ... IIW wants to support our work
16:57:00 <hhalpin> ... it will take a few years
16:57:11 <DKA> http://wiki.dataportability.org/display/dpmain/EULA+and+ToS+template
16:58:25 <hhalpin> happy to close call
16:58:26 <rreck> we can harry is talking but that is about it
16:58:34 <hhalpin> sorry, phone went flaky
16:58:39 <hhalpin> thanks Elias!
16:58:51 <rreck> i wish i could have heard a little better
16:58:53 <Zakim> - +01415990aaff
16:58:58 <Zakim> -tinkster
16:58:59 <Zakim> -claudio
16:59:05 <rreck> bye all
16:59:10 <hhalpin> no problem with minutes!
16:59:11 <danbri> thanks all, bye too
16:59:17 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:59:20 <hhalpin> no, it's not headset, it's a new ubuntu install :(
16:59:21 <Zakim> -DKA
16:59:26 <Adam> lol ... should we take up a collection for that ;)
16:59:29 <Zakim> -rreck
16:59:30 <Zakim> -??P21
16:59:34 <Zakim> -Adam
16:59:39 <Zakim> -melvster
17:04:47 <hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting
17:04:47 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:04:47 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +39.011.228.aaaa, +1.785.583.aabb, MacTed, Adam, tinkster, rreck, claudio, melvster, DKA, hhalpin, +7.717.88.aacc, harry, ??P21,
17:04:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:04:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html trackbot
17:04:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:04:49 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-actions.rdf :
17:04:49 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DKA to send notes to camp to Social Web XG wiki  and BarCamp.org [1]
17:04:49 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-irc#T16-11-18
17:04:49 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DKA to write-up output of XG meeting next Tuesday [2]
17:04:49 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-irc#T16-16-07
17:04:52 <Zakim> ... +41.41.599.0aadd, +01415990aaee, +01415990aaff, +31.31.208.aagg