IRC log of swxg on 2009-11-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:58:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:58:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:58:49 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:51 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7994
15:58:51 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:52 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:58:52 [trackbot]
Date: 11 November 2009
15:59:22 [MacTed]
Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
15:59:22 [Zakim]
sorry, MacTed, I do not recognize a party named 'Kingsley_Idehen'
15:59:42 [hhalpin]
agenda+ Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-11-11T16:00-17:00GMT
15:59:53 [hhalpin]
agenda+ Report-back on Last week!
15:59:59 [hhalpin]
agenda+ General Organization
16:00:02 [Zakim]
INC_SWXG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:05 [hhalpin]
agenda+ Invited Guest Invitations
16:00:07 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.228.aaaa
16:00:09 [Zakim]
16:00:11 [hhalpin]
agenda+ User Stories
16:00:21 [hhalpin]
agenda+ Invited Speaker: Elias Bizannes from
16:00:22 [MacTed]
Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
16:00:22 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software; got it
16:00:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.785.583.aabb
16:00:31 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed
16:00:31 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
16:00:32 [Zakim]
16:00:33 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
16:00:33 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
16:00:43 [tinkster]
zakim, aabb is me
16:00:43 [Zakim]
+tinkster; got it
16:00:47 [Zakim]
16:00:59 [Adam]
Adam has joined #swxg
16:01:04 [rreck]
zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
16:01:04 [Zakim]
sorry, rreck, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
16:01:10 [rreck]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:01:11 [Zakim]
+rreck; got it
16:01:15 [claudio]
zakim, aaaa is me
16:01:15 [Zakim]
+claudio; got it
16:01:23 [rreck]
zakim, mute me
16:01:23 [Zakim]
rreck should now be muted
16:01:38 [Zakim]
16:02:17 [Adam]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), ??P9
16:02:46 [melvster]
zakim, ??P9 is me
16:02:46 [Zakim]
+melvster; got it
16:02:50 [Zakim]
16:03:13 [DKA]
zakim, [ipcaller] is me
16:03:13 [Zakim]
+DKA; got it
16:03:18 [DKA]
zakim, who is here?
16:03:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), melvster, DKA
16:03:20 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Adam, RRSAgent, danbri_, rreck, melvster, hhalpin, timbl, oshani, MacTed, claudio, DKA, FabGandon, tinkster, karl, Zakim, trackbot
16:03:44 [Zakim]
16:03:49 [hhalpin]
Zakim, P15 is hhalpin
16:03:49 [Zakim]
sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'P15'
16:04:00 [hhalpin]
Zakim, ??P15 is hhalpin
16:04:00 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
16:04:00 [tinkster]
very quiet.
16:04:08 [DKA]
zakim, ??P15 is hhalpin
16:04:08 [Zakim]
I already had ??P15 as hhalpin, DKA
16:04:26 [Zakim]
16:04:49 [rreck]
staring Zakim
16:05:07 [Zakim]
+ +7.717.88.aacc
16:05:13 [rreck]
16:05:16 [rreck]
16:05:20 [DKA]
zakim, aacc is harry
16:05:20 [Zakim]
+harry; got it
16:05:29 [hhalpin]
Zakim, aacc is hhalpin
16:05:29 [Zakim]
sorry, hhalpin, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
16:05:38 [martin_h]
martin_h has joined #swxg
16:05:46 [DKA]
Scribe: Dan
16:05:47 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
16:05:49 [Zakim]
agendum 19. "Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-11-11T16:00-17:00GMT" taken up [from hhalpin]
16:05:50 [DKA]
ScribeNick: DKA
16:05:57 [tinkster]
Starring Zakim as Felicity de Montfort, wealthy heiress to a vast oil fortune... but with a dark secret in her past.
16:06:06 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 28st October 2009 as a true record
16:06:13 [hhalpin]
16:06:20 [Adam]
16:06:21 [rreck]
16:06:22 [tinkster]
16:06:23 [melvster]
16:06:24 [DKA]
16:06:47 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: approved SWXG WG Weekly -- 28st October 2009 as a true record
16:06:52 [tinkster]
There was definitely some stuff chatted here.
16:06:57 [Adam]
think rigo did some of the rssagent stuff
16:07:06 [tinkster]
My IRC client will have logged them somewhere.
16:07:19 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: to meet again Wed. November 18th
16:07:25 [Zakim]
16:07:34 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
16:07:34 [Zakim]
agendum 20. "Report-back on Last week!" taken up [from hhalpin]
16:07:51 [tinkster]
16:08:00 [hhalpin]
scribenick: hhalpin
16:08:24 [Adam]
was in shackles
16:08:27 [hhalpin]
Tragically, Henry Story was detained by immigration officials
16:08:46 [rreck]
never to return
16:08:55 [hhalpin]
DKA: he's back in europe now but had to miss Social Web Camp
16:09:23 [hhalpin]
... but nonetheless made a lot of progress last week.
16:09:25 [Adam]
many thanks to DKA for organizing the Social Web Camp
16:09:28 [hhalpin]
... good sessions on Social Web Camp
16:09:30 [danbri]
danbri has joined #swxg
16:09:37 [hhalpin]
... guy from Salmon Protocol
16:09:39 [danbri]
(i joined 2 mins ago but was off irc)
16:09:48 [hhalpin]
... talked about FOAF+SSL
16:09:56 [danbri]
zakim, ??P21 is danbri
16:09:56 [Zakim]
+danbri; got it
16:10:00 [tinkster]
zakim, danbri is ??P21
16:10:00 [Zakim]
+??P21; got it
16:10:18 [hhalpin]
... quite a technical crowd
16:10:22 [hhalpin]
... Linden Labs guy
16:10:27 [hhalpin]
... good international crowd, Symbian
16:10:32 [hhalpin]
16:10:40 [hhalpin]
DKA: was very helpful.
16:10:42 [Adam]
john panzer:
16:11:18 [hhalpin]
ACTION: DKA to send notes to camp to Social Web XG wiki and
16:11:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-105 - Send notes to camp to Social Web XG wiki and [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-11-18].
16:11:32 [hhalpin]
DKA: On Tuesday, we had a very productive XG meeting.
16:11:48 [hhalpin]
... TimBL participated most of the day on Tuesday
16:12:04 [hhalpin]
... focus on use-cases
16:12:26 [hhalpin]
... fleshed out provenance social networks and provenance
16:12:29 [hhalpin]
... managing relationships
16:12:38 [hhalpin]
... moving data
16:12:49 [hhalpin]
... we added user-stories
16:12:52 [hhalpin]
... take-down
16:12:54 [hhalpin]
16:13:06 [hhalpin]
... pretty happy with work we have done
16:13:16 [danbri]
(all sounds v fun, sorry i couldn't make the trip)
16:13:38 [hhalpin]
... these stories differentiate us quite a bit from other inputs
16:13:43 [hhalpin]
... didn't get into architecture that much
16:13:54 [hhalpin]
... did have some discussion around architecture
16:13:58 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:13:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), melvster, DKA, harry, ??P21
16:14:12 [hhalpin]
... self-proclaimed piece of software
16:14:21 [hhalpin]
... timbl would want us to think about it from a linked data perspective
16:14:57 [hhalpin]
... our use-cases determine social networks as we know them today
16:15:06 [hhalpin]
... but we can merge that with a linked data approach.
16:16:07 [hhalpin]
ACTION: DKA to write-up output of XG meeting next Tuesday
16:16:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-106 - Write-up output of XG meeting next Tuesday [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-11-18].
16:16:13 [Adam]
can or should the output of the camp be put on the eventbrite site? or on our w3c wiki page?
16:16:19 [hhalpin]
both I think!
16:16:22 [hhalpin]
or at least linked.
16:16:30 [DKA]
16:16:33 [DKA]
ack hh
16:17:12 [DKA]
16:17:30 [Adam]
some back pages
16:18:40 [hhalpin]
DKA: All work done in wiki
16:18:54 [hhalpin]
... panel went well
16:19:07 [hhalpin]
... thanks to Adam, David, Fabien
16:19:31 [hhalpin]
... David clarify why OWF and PortableContacts happening outside W3C
16:19:40 [hhalpin]
... W3C lots of talk about opening up, extending XG process
16:20:03 [hhalpin]
... lots of work there
16:20:20 [Adam]
tech plenary agenda with link to slides:
16:20:22 [hhalpin]
... ian jacobs and other talked to david after panel.
16:20:31 [danbri]
are david's slides around?
16:20:37 [hhalpin]
... david ended on a slide of why Facebook should join W3C?
16:20:47 [Adam]
i haven't seen them out there danbri
16:20:50 [hhalpin]
... reminded me of why Google joined w3c
16:21:06 [hhalpin]
I believe Facebook and W3C are in talks now re joining.
16:21:40 [hhalpin]
... Kevin Marks talking about OpenStack
16:21:40 [danbri]
interesting question of whether to present it as a duty (for those that make millions from the Web); vs a biz opportunity
16:21:46 [danbri]
(or some awkward combination of both)
16:23:06 [hhalpin]
scribenick: DKA
16:23:14 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
16:23:14 [Zakim]
agendum 21. "General Organization" taken up [from hhalpin]
16:23:46 [hhalpin]
16:24:10 [DKA] - tech plenary agenda from last week - no link for David's slides yet - I will ping Ian or someone...
16:24:51 [DKA]
Scribe: Dan
16:24:54 [DKA]
ScribeNick: DKA
16:24:56 [hhalpin]
next week open
16:25:03 [rreck]
1+ "finish" userstories
16:25:05 [hhalpin]
for user-stories
16:25:37 [martin_h]
martin_h has joined #swxg
16:25:39 [DKA]
Harry: We're getting to the point where we can start writing the final report.
16:25:59 [danbri]
i'll try to take a look at final report structure, and with chasing up the widgets stuff ...
16:26:16 [rreck]
i dont mind helping
16:26:30 [danbri]
i think having co-chairs edit is fine for an xg
16:26:41 [danbri]
so long as we push other things to companion docs
16:28:22 [hhalpin]
# [CONTINUES] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members.
16:28:29 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION:Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.
16:28:31 [rreck]
at a lower level zakim sucks
16:28:35 [Zakim]
+ +41.41.599.0aadd
16:28:39 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Adam to write up Matt Lee's talk
16:28:53 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION:mtuffied to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies.
16:29:54 [rreck]
i just think zakim could be a little more forgiving
16:30:05 [hhalpin]
Zakim, go to agendum 25
16:30:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'go to agendum 25', hhalpin
16:30:06 [DKA]
Harry: [Introducing Elias Bizannes from]
16:30:18 [DKA]
Harry: Can you introduce
16:30:26 [hhalpin]
move to agendum 25
16:30:28 [hhalpin]
move to agendum 24
16:31:36 [DKA]
Elias: The long-term goal is putting the focus on policy, education.
16:31:56 [DKA]
ScribeNick: hhalpin
16:32:00 [DKA]
Scribe: Harry
16:32:21 [hhalpin]
Elias: has evolved into a user based organization
16:32:31 [hhalpin]
... to standardize the language end-users see across social networks
16:33:03 [hhalpin]
... the form it would take
16:33:12 [hhalpin]
... would be specific relationships with companies
16:33:18 [hhalpin]
... that could then use EULA
16:33:29 [hhalpin]
... so that the companies take specific committments
16:33:50 [hhalpin]
... provided that, say, APIs are documented and in public
16:34:07 [hhalpin]
... we understand that companies are in different situations
16:34:43 [hhalpin]
... that this will be most effective way of getting data portability off the ground
16:34:56 [Zakim]
- +41.41.599.0aadd
16:35:05 [rreck]
it was very hard to hear him
16:35:26 [danbri]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:35:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), melvster, DKA, harry, ??P21
16:35:34 [Zakim]
+ +01415990aaee
16:35:49 [hhalpin]
16:38:30 [hhalpin]
hhalpin: do you deal with privacy? when are these done?
16:38:35 [hhalpin]
Elias: We do care about privacy
16:38:51 [hhalpin]
... but we aren't dealing with the specific technologies
16:39:47 [hhalpin]
DKA: we have been discussing the fact that people aren't reading licenses
16:40:47 [hhalpin]
Elias: so we're working on basic rights
16:41:11 [hhalpin]
... but it states what we think people are entitled to
16:41:12 [danbri]
related work elsewhere: (Authored by Joseph Smarr, Marc Canter, Robert Scoble, and Michael Arrington) "A Bill of Rights for Users of the Social Web"
16:41:54 [DKA]
16:41:57 [hhalpin]
... basically helps user understand the landscape of options
16:42:23 [hhalpin]
... we want it to be machine readable using RDF
16:43:08 [hhalpin]
danbri: any connection to jsmarr's work?
16:43:11 [hhalpin]
16:44:10 [hhalpin]
Elias: we will consider it it's good but we want something we can deploy more options, not just one
16:44:54 [DKA]
ack hh
16:46:04 [Zakim]
16:46:07 [Zakim]
- +01415990aaee
16:46:23 [danbri]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:46:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MacTed (muted), claudio, tinkster, Adam, rreck (muted), melvster, DKA, ??P21
16:46:27 [MacTed]
not quite everyone
16:46:28 [Zakim]
+ +01415990aaff
16:46:34 [MacTed]
16:46:55 [hhalpin]
did I just drop?
16:47:12 [hhalpin]
DKA, could you ask the question
16:47:23 [hhalpin]
"How Can W3C Help a group like"
16:47:28 [hhalpin]
I'll be back in a sec...
16:49:01 [DKA]
Elias: Best think W3C could do is to give some honest feedback on the work...
16:49:07 [DKA]
Elias: We want more smart people....
16:49:14 [rreck]
good question
16:49:15 [DKA]
DKA: What's the participation model?
16:49:50 [DKA]
Elias: The way the project work is through task forces - work by consensus...
16:50:04 [DKA]
Elias: Off of IIW we have 15 people who have shown interested in participation in some way.
16:50:24 [DKA]
Elias: Best way to get involved is to contact me. We need to take these drafts into a more formal document..
16:50:57 [hhalpin]
We need precise URIs to review the document, or access to Google Docs of course.
16:51:05 [DKA]
DKA: is there any costs?
16:51:23 [DKA]
DKA: If I wanted to launch a SN tomorrow with the DP trustmark what do I need to do?
16:51:49 [DKA]
Elias: We are a Non-profit. The governance model of the project is voluntary based with no membership fees. Fully transparent.
16:52:15 [DKA]
Elias: We don't need money. We don't have an incentive to get a memebrship model with fees.
16:52:30 [DKA]
Elias: In terms of using the logo and the EULA work there will be no cost...
16:52:34 [rreck]
very cool
16:53:38 [Zakim]
+ +31.31.208.aagg
16:53:45 [hhalpin]
Zakim, aagg is hhalpin
16:53:45 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
16:53:50 [hhalpin]
scribenick: hhalpin
16:53:58 [hhalpin]
... is there a compliance mechanism?
16:54:08 [hhalpin]
... how can transfer it easily?
16:54:36 [DKA]
DKA: Is there a compliance mechanism / GPL-like requirements on the use of the logo / EULA?
16:55:02 [hhalpin]
it's their incentive to do the truth
16:55:08 [hhalpin]
Elias: our branding is minimized
16:55:10 [DKA]
Elias: We have worried about this - we don't want our brand to be misused.
16:55:17 [hhalpin]
... we just want the company itself to do open disclosure
16:55:53 [hhalpin]
no real final questions from me.
16:56:17 [hhalpin]
DKA: do we have any specific networks that are signed up?
16:56:27 [hhalpin]
Elias: We've been hiding away, not drawing attention to it.
16:56:33 [hhalpin]
... we're had some dialogue
16:56:36 [hhalpin]
... mostly informal
16:56:36 [danbri]
is the eula url handy?
16:56:46 [hhalpin]
... we have lots of relationships with prominent vendors.
16:56:57 [hhalpin]
... IIW wants to support our work
16:57:00 [hhalpin]
... it will take a few years
16:57:11 [DKA]
16:58:25 [hhalpin]
happy to close call
16:58:26 [rreck]
we can harry is talking but that is about it
16:58:34 [hhalpin]
sorry, phone went flaky
16:58:39 [hhalpin]
thanks Elias!
16:58:51 [rreck]
i wish i could have heard a little better
16:58:53 [Zakim]
- +01415990aaff
16:58:58 [Zakim]
16:58:59 [Zakim]
16:59:05 [rreck]
bye all
16:59:10 [hhalpin]
no problem with minutes!
16:59:11 [danbri]
thanks all, bye too
16:59:17 [Zakim]
16:59:20 [hhalpin]
no, it's not headset, it's a new ubuntu install :(
16:59:21 [Zakim]
16:59:26 [Adam]
lol ... should we take up a collection for that ;)
16:59:29 [Zakim]
16:59:30 [Zakim]
16:59:34 [Zakim]
16:59:39 [Zakim]
17:04:47 [hhalpin]
trackbot, end meeting
17:04:47 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
17:04:47 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +39.011.228.aaaa, +1.785.583.aabb, MacTed, Adam, tinkster, rreck, claudio, melvster, DKA, hhalpin, +7.717.88.aacc, harry, ??P21,
17:04:48 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:04:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
17:04:49 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
17:04:49 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
17:04:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DKA to send notes to camp to Social Web XG wiki and [1]
17:04:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:04:49 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DKA to write-up output of XG meeting next Tuesday [2]
17:04:49 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:04:52 [Zakim]
... +41.41.599.0aadd, +01415990aaee, +01415990aaff, +31.31.208.aagg