IRC log of rdfa on 2009-11-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:43:19 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rdfa

15:43:19 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc

15:43:24 [manu]

zakim, this will be rdfa

15:43:24 [Zakim]

ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes

15:43:49 [manu]

Scribe: manu

15:44:07 [manu]

Present: Manu_Sporny, Ben_Adida, Mark_Birbeck, Ivan_Herman

15:44:12 [manu]

Regrets: Steven_Pemberton

15:44:17 [manu]

Present+ Shane_McCarron

15:44:45 [manu]

Meeting: RDFa in XHTML Task Force

15:44:57 [manu]

Chair: Ben_Adida

15:45:34 [manu]

rrsagent, make log public

15:45:38 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:45:38 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu

15:57:06 [ShaneM]

ShaneM has joined #rdfa

15:57:38 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

15:57:46 [Zakim]

+shadi

15:57:51 [manu]

zakim, I am shadi

15:57:51 [Zakim]

ok, manu, I now associate you with shadi

15:57:58 [manu]

zakim, shadi is manu

15:57:58 [Zakim]

+manu; got it

15:58:03 [Zakim]

+ShaneM

16:00:21 [ivan]

zakim, code?

16:00:21 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ivan

16:00:45 [Zakim]

+Ivan

16:06:31 [manu]

Topic: Action Items

16:06:36 [manu]

ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

16:06:43 [manu]

-- continue

16:07:00 [manu]

Manu: Sent out overview

16:08:01 [manu]

Manu: Asked 3 new test cases to be reviewed.

16:08:09 [manu]

ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

16:08:12 [manu]

-- continues

16:08:51 [benadida]

benadida has joined #rdfa

16:08:51 [manu]

ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

16:08:54 [manu]

-- continues

16:08:57 [benadida]

hey folks

16:09:15 [manu]

ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

16:09:32 [benadida]

I'm having a bit of a child care "crisis" this morning, I have to send regrets, too, sorry for the last minute.

16:09:34 [manu]

-- done

16:10:38 [manu]

ok Ben, we'll continue the telecon without you, hope your crisis becomes "solved" soon.

16:11:05 [benadida]

yeah it's not horrendously serious, just requires my attention.

16:11:07 [benadida]

thanks.

16:11:34 [manu]

Manu: Do have more thoughts on RDFa WG, Ivan?

16:12:09 [manu]

Ivan: We need more W3C members.

16:12:51 [manu]

Ivan: Currently in talks with a number of people offline - we seem to be in good shape.

16:13:50 [manu]

Ivan: If we have 2 large search companies and a number of other smaller companies (all W3C members) we're fine.

16:14:55 [manu]

rrsagent, drop action 4

16:15:32 [manu]

Ivan: We should expect questions that are raised regarding why RDFa is a separate group from Semantic Web.

16:16:02 [manu]

ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

16:16:19 [manu]

-- done

16:16:32 [manu]

Manu: Jeremy Carroll said that this is a bug in Jena/SPARQL.org

16:16:40 [manu]

Manu: Andy seemed to imply it was as well.

16:16:50 [manu]

ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

16:16:52 [manu]

-- continues

16:17:01 [manu]

ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

16:17:29 [manu]

-- continues

16:18:21 [manu]

Topic: RDFa WG Charter

16:18:31 [manu]

Ivan: I have one thing to mention re: the charter

16:18:53 [manu]

Ivan: I don't think we should include the Microsoft extensibility thing as a part of the RDFa charter.

16:19:23 [manu]

Ivan: What happens if the HTML5 group stops the extensibility mechanism? Our charter would be wrong.

16:19:46 [manu]

Manu: Fine to remove it - we were attempting to express that we'd like to work with HTML WG on distributed extensibility.

16:21:33 [manu]

Ivan: We need to remove names for W3C staff contact - wait until after a vote.

16:21:59 [manu]

Manu: ok, made both changes to the charter.

16:22:41 [manu]

Ivan: The other discussion we'll want to have is IG vs. WG

16:23:13 [manu]

Shane: We want to publish REC track documents, so we have to be a WG.

16:24:17 [manu]

Ivan: So, an open question is that RDFa 1.1 will probably apply to HTML5, so why the new WG?

16:25:13 [manu]

Shane: XHTML+RDFa module has to be updated, and is work that is done independently of the HTML5 spec. That's why we need a new WG.

16:25:27 [manu]

Manu: There is also an RDFa 1.1 Core spec

16:25:44 [manu]

Ivan: Right, the underlying RDFa 1.1 Core spec would be independent of any language.

16:26:02 [manu]

Ivan: There is MediaRSS - which is RDFa being used in a non-XML dialect.

16:26:14 [manu]

Ivan: That should be a REC, and must be done by a WG, not at IG.

16:26:43 [manu]

s/non-XML/non-XHTML/

16:27:05 [manu]

Shane: Sure - we should have some kind of language-agnostic RDFa 1.1 Core document.

16:27:15 [manu]

Shane: An evolution of the current spec could do that pretty easily.

16:27:23 [manu]

Shane: The XHTML logic is restricted to 1 chapter.

16:27:45 [manu]

Ivan: A little more than that - we refer to href and img, and some other HTML dependent things.

16:27:53 [ShaneM]

@src too

16:28:26 [manu]

Ivan: We could do a generic spec which may have an additional XHTML spec.

16:28:39 [manu]

Ivan: We have to be very specific about what the WG is producing.

16:30:27 [manu]

Topic: profile/vocab discussion

16:33:22 [manu]

Manu: @profile is perma-thread area on HTML WG and WHAT WG.

16:33:34 [manu]

Topic: RDFa DOM API

16:34:46 [manu]

Manu: Two approaches - generic RDF DOM API, and a specific RDFa DOM API.

16:35:04 [manu]

Ivan: We may not want to make this an HTML-specific thing.

16:35:41 [manu]

Shane: I don't think there is an HTML DOM - so, we may want to do something that is XML-specific.

16:35:58 [manu]

Shane: XHTML/HTML DOM was something we never wanted to do.

16:36:11 [manu]

Ivan: What might be faster and easier to define would be the RDFa-specific DOM API.

16:36:43 [manu]

Ivan: At ISWC2009, there was a paper on how one could extract triples from an element.

16:36:53 [manu]

Ivan: The point is that there is a slightly more general issue that is coming up.

16:37:18 [manu]

Ivan: How can we reconcile this: How do I get and manage RDF data from Javascript in general? Regardless of whether or not it comes from RDFa?

16:37:43 [manu]

Ivan: TimBL was done in Javascript, data was extracted from all places... RDFa is just one source.

16:37:51 [manu]

Ivan: it would be nice if these two things could be reconciled.

16:37:57 [manu]

Ivan: Unless it becomes overcomplicated.

16:38:15 [ShaneM]

s/TimBL/Tabulator/

16:41:31 [manu]

Manu: So, we could use the jQuery approach - specific API for RDFa

16:41:41 [manu]

Manu: Then jQuery provides the RDF query mechanism.

16:42:18 [manu]

Shane: I think this could conflict with the way the HTML5 group does things.

16:47:19 [manu]

Manu: If we do the jQuery approach - we could tie in a unified RDF query mechanism, regardless of the underlying data expression mechanism - Microdata, RDFa, Microformats, etc.

16:47:53 [manu]

Ivan: So, are we interested in a generic API to extract data out of triple stores, regardless of where it comes from.

16:49:01 [manu]

Ivan: Is that a something that the RDFa WG would like to solve?

16:50:30 [manu]

Ivan: There is a clear pressure from a number of people that we need something at the triple store level... a specific RDFa API won't solve the real problem.

16:50:41 [manu]

Shane: So, RDFa API is necessary, but not sufficient.

16:51:20 [manu]

Ivan: Is another WG needed to provide this? Or can this be solved in the RDFa WG?

16:52:14 [manu]

Ivan: What I'm interested in is the integrated triple store.

16:52:31 [manu]

Ivan: From a SemWeb programmers point of view, this is what I'd want.

16:53:05 [manu]

Shane: I see a couple of different things here, one of them is having triple-store access available. Via the DOM or otherwise.

16:53:13 [manu]

Shane: This is an API for extracting triples from a URI.

16:53:55 [manu]

Ivan: In rdflib, there is no provenance.

16:54:06 [manu]

Ivan: Everything gets merged into the same bin.

16:54:42 [manu]

Manu: So is it fair to say that we're talking about a TripleStore API?

16:54:50 [manu]

Ivan: Yes... but these two should meet somewhere.

16:54:59 [manu]

Ivan: Maybe only at an implementation level.

16:55:36 [manu]

Ivan: Some have said you don't need a TripleStore API - you only need a SPARQL API.

16:55:54 [manu]

Ivan: Just like you don't have an API to get SQL data, you just issue SQL commands.

16:59:16 [manu]

Ivan: I think charter text should make these points very clearly.

16:59:33 [manu]

ACTION: Manu to update the charter to talk about RDFa API

17:00:01 [manu]

Manu: We could do TripleStore API in jquery?

17:00:27 [manu]

Ivan: Maybe we want to put conditional item in there about TripleStore API

17:00:38 [manu]

Ivan: Maybe we plan to have a Note on a generic TripleStore API.

17:01:10 [manu]

Ivan: We would not be obligated to do TripleStore API, but we will look into the issue.

17:01:35 [Zakim]

-ShaneM

17:01:37 [Zakim]

-manu

17:01:39 [Zakim]

-Ivan

17:01:39 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

17:01:41 [Zakim]

Attendees were manu, ShaneM, Ivan

17:04:05 [ivan]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:04:05 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html ivan

17:04:24 [manu]

s/--continue/--continues/

17:04:28 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:04:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu

17:05:03 [manu]

Present- Mark_Birbeck

17:05:16 [manu]

Present- Ben_Adida

17:05:35 [manu]

Regrets: Ben_Adida, Mark_Birbeck

17:05:39 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:05:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu

17:06:04 [manu]

Regrets+ Steven_Pemberton

17:06:06 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:06:06 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu

17:06:25 [manu]

Chair: Manu_Sporny

17:06:27 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:06:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu

17:07:25 [manu]

s/\-\-continue/\-\-continues/

17:07:27 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:07:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu

17:07:44 [manu]

s/Chair: Ben_Adida/Chair: Manu Sporny/

17:07:47 [manu]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:07:47 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-minutes.html manu

17:08:41 [manu]

turns out, HTML WG call is replaced by F2F TPAC meeting.

17:48:29 [manu]

rrsagent, bye

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-actions.rdf :

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [1]

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-06-36

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [2]

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-08-09

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [3]

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-08-51-1

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5]

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-16-02

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [6]

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-16-50

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04] [7]

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-17-01

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Manu to update the charter to talk about RDFa API [8]

17:48:29 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-rdfa-irc#T16-59-33

17:48:32 [manu]

zakim, bye

17:48:32 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rdfa