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16:45:02 <wbailer> Zakim, this is MAWG
16:45:02 <Zakim> sorry, wbailer, I do not see a conference named 'MAWG' in progress or scheduled at this time
16:46:02 <wbailer> Zakim, this will be MAWG
16:46:02 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, wbailer
16:46:02 <Daniel> Daniel has joined #mediaann
16:48:42 <wbailer> Meeting: MAWG F2F 2009-11-05
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17:00:00 <joakim> joakim has joined #mediaann
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17:09:01 <wbailer> scribe: wbailer
17:09:06 <wbailer> chair: joakim
17:09:39 <wbailer> present: daniel, wonsuk, chris, florian, veronique, wonsuk, werner
17:09:52 <wbailer> topic: agenda
17:10:10 <wbailer> joakim: reschedule to have important topics after parallel ac meeting ends
17:10:38 <wbailer> wonsuk: we should discuss update of uc and requirements document
17:11:10 <wbailer> agenda draft at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_F2F_5
17:13:18 <Daniel> self-introduction around the table
17:15:11 <wonsuk> Present+ wonsuk
17:17:56 <Daniel> Jaesung Han who is a new person from Samsung Electronics at this meeting
17:18:06 <wbailer> topic: ontology improvement
17:18:39 <wbailer> present+ jeasung
17:22:24 <wbailer> veronique: in the joint paper we had different propositions for the ontology
17:22:59 <wbailer> ... questions: which option to follow?
17:23:13 <wbailer> ... other proposition: represent as event
17:24:56 <wbailer> ... event models by raphael troncy et al and at vua
17:25:04 <wbailer> ... merged the two
17:25:19 <wbailer> ... formal way of describing metadata
17:25:27 <wbailer> chris: why use events?
17:25:37 <wbailer> ... why eg for technical properties?
17:25:59 <wbailer> veronique: link technical properties to event (e.g. creation)
17:26:13 <wbailer> ... annotation has time dimension, supports versioning
17:26:43 <wbailer> chris: this is metadata about properties and not about resource
17:26:59 <wbailer> veronique: resource is also represented as an event, can be linked
17:27:46 <wbailer> veronique: proposals in paper
17:28:02 <wbailer> ... link properties with skos (not desinged for that)
17:28:31 <wbailer> ... or more formal, owl equivalent
17:28:54 <wbailer> veronique: do we keep the bag of properties we have now
17:29:06 <wbailer> ... or organise in an ontology
17:29:44 <wbailer> joakim: we have a set of core attributes
17:29:58 <wbailer> chris: these attributes are properties
17:30:26 <wbailer> joakim: what do you call the relations between properties?
17:30:44 <wbailer> veronique: property mappings
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17:31:05 <wbailer> ... in wbailers and wonsuks proposal classes are used for modelling
17:31:19 <wbailer> ... alternative could be to represent them as events
17:31:40 <wbailer> veronique: do we go for one or all of these options?
17:31:51 <wbailer> ... what is supported in the current apis?
17:32:20 <wbailer> joakim: feedback from outside: where is the ontology? can it be applied to real time media
17:32:25 <wbailer> ... we need a primer document
17:32:53 <wbailer> veronique: we need to define the ontology in order to implement the api based 
17:33:06 <wbailer> ... maybe vote for the different options
17:33:17 <wbailer> ... or one api per ontology proposal
17:33:32 <wbailer> ... would the apis be still interoperable?
17:33:50 <wbailer> chris: api should be independent from how ontology is modelled
17:34:08 <wbailer> veronique: can it be independent (property vs class)
17:34:18 <wbailer> chris: api will access values of core properties
17:34:28 <wbailer> ... mapping is taken care of internally
17:34:36 <wbailer> ... for the clients the api should be the same
17:35:09 <wbailer> ... for the 4 propositions it's possible to create compatible apis
17:35:24 <wbailer> florian: what's the role of the api spec?
17:35:39 <wbailer> chris: it's a uniform way of accessing a specific set of properties
17:36:24 <wbailer> florian: not much information in api spec then
17:36:50 <wbailer> ... actual information is in ontology document
17:36:56 <wbailer> ... the two could be merged
17:37:06 <wbailer> chris: what do you expect that the api should do?
17:37:26 <wbailer> florian: two documents should be merged
17:38:09 <wbailer> chris: api should define interface, implementation can be different
17:38:19 <wbailer> ... needs to conform to ontology definition
17:38:30 <wbailer> ... no matter how the mappings are implemented
17:38:42 <wbailer> florian: give guidelines for implementations
17:39:18 <wbailer> wbailer: our implementations will be available as example
17:39:35 <wbailer> florian: could be added to api doc
17:39:57 <wbailer> joakim: let's go through the four proposals
17:40:14 <wbailer> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:40:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer
17:40:59 <wbailer> chris: the different proposals could be implementation provided with rec
17:41:14 <wbailer> veronique: agree to go with multiple options
17:41:26 <wbailer> ... only worried that apis could not be compatible
17:42:14 <wbailer> chris: implementation approaches do not need to be described, thinks that felix shares that view
17:42:29 <wbailer> chris: not sure how to make ontology document then specific enough
17:43:19 <wbailer> ... implementations should be published, not sure where
17:43:34 <wbailer> veronique: implementations should be in the document
17:43:52 <wbailer> chris: in other recs, they add a list of possible recommendations, not in the rec
17:44:10 <wbailer> ... there needs to be sufficient documentation on the implementations
17:44:24 <wbailer> veronqiue: reader needs concrete examples
17:45:16 <florian> +1 @ Vero
17:45:24 <wbailer> joakim: charter says we have 2 recommendations
17:45:46 <wbailer> ... we could keep them separate, but publish them synchronously
17:46:16 <wbailer> veronique: there is also the issue of a separate document on implementations
17:46:35 <wbailer> joakim: as ontology is a rec, we need to discuss how to test it
17:46:44 <wbailer> ... to be discussed with team conteact
17:46:51 <wbailer> s/conteact/contact/
17:47:16 <wbailer> wonsuk: not clear how to do that for the ontology, look at how other groups handle similar issues
17:47:53 <wbailer> veronique: we have 5 different implementations of ontology
17:48:30 <wbailer> wonsuk: we have to decide if we just provide the core properties, or also design of ontology
17:48:40 <wbailer> ... not sure what is appropriate for recommendation
17:49:28 <wbailer> ... if we only provide core properties, mapping scheme is moved to implementation part
17:50:06 <wbailer> if we describe mapping more concretely, we need to elaborate ontology document to describe an approach that fits for many people
17:50:34 <wbailer> wonsuk: deciding for a certain scheme will raise discussions about approach
17:51:09 <wbailer> chris: wonsuk, do you mean a concrete serialisation by mapping scheme?
17:51:21 <wbailer> wonsuk: a concrete one
17:51:31 <wbailer> ... there could be additional formats not considered
17:51:39 <wbailer> ... people may want to add other formats
17:52:32 <wbailer> joakim: felix was in favour of having no formal mapping in the rec
17:52:54 <wbailer> ... the formal description could be to explain in make it clear, but not normative
17:53:07 <wbailer> ... as an additional layer of conformance
17:53:36 <wbailer> joakim: let's go through the approaches in the paper
17:53:53 <wbailer> veronique: we seem to agree that several ones are possible
17:54:19 <wbailer> veronique: approach based on skos
17:54:30 <wbailer> ... use skos for mapping between properties
17:54:43 <wbailer> ... issue for many people, should be discussed on skos list
17:54:54 <wbailer> joakim: does it define data types?
17:55:20 <wbailer> veronique: assumes what is mapped are skos concepts, so it's typed in a sense
17:55:34 <wbailer> ... less formal than owl equivalence
17:56:28 <wbailer> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:56:36 <wbailer> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
17:56:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer
17:57:07 <wbailer> joakim: do we need inference?
17:57:29 <wbailer> florian: eg map dimension to width/height
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17:58:01 <wbailer> veronique: why is spatial dimension in one property?
18:01:02 <wbailer> there are pros and cons for having it one or two properties
18:01:22 <wbailer> chris: mapping using owl and swrl
18:01:36 <wbailer> ... properties are modelled as classes
18:01:50 <wbailer> ... it's ontology engineering on metadata format
18:02:05 <wbailer> veronique: similar to proposal in event model
18:02:29 <wbailer> chris: modelling properties and schemes, but approach similar to event model
18:02:52 <wbailer> ... model as classes, use equivalentProperty, equivalentClass
18:03:06 <wbailer> ... rules need for data type conversion
18:05:54 <florian> werner: introduces his approach using a format independent ontology
18:07:51 <florian> ...this approach my have drawbacks with levels of media fragments (discovered while implementing, not part of the paper)
18:08:24 <wbailer> veronique: event model might be useful fot mapping fragments
18:08:40 <wbailer> wonsuk: approach: mapping with buil-in properties
18:08:46 <wbailer> s/buil/built/
18:09:06 <wbailer> ... describe properties in 2 standards to be ampped
18:09:19 <wbailer> s/ampped/mapped/
18:09:55 <wbailer> ... relation classes modelling type of relation, data types
18:10:22 <wbailer> ... general approach for mapping between media ontology and each format
18:10:45 <wbailer> ... target of mapping described by XPath for XML based formats
18:11:05 <wbailer> ... for EXIF or ID3, the mapping class contains identifier
18:11:57 <wbailer> ... when metadata property is encountered, application applies information in mapping class
18:12:25 <wbailer> ... can access information in input file
18:12:47 <wbailer> veronique: should be represented as ontology defining the mapping, and rules
18:13:08 <wbailer> ... representation is awkward now with too many blank notes
18:13:26 <wbailer> ... interesting idea, but implementation needs improvement
18:14:57 <wbailer> veronique: event based model seems to be generalisation of chris' approach
18:15:18 <wbailer> ... metadata is event, that has author, start/end date, place, ...
18:15:38 <wbailer> ... link to representation of content, can be linked to other metadata of the event
18:16:09 <wbailer> ... technical properties can be attached
18:16:31 <wbailer> ... people are working on spatial and technical reasoning on event models
18:16:44 <wbailer> ... beneficial to relate to generic concepts
18:17:27 <wbailer> chris: reason for representing properties as concepts
18:17:46 <wbailer> veronique: link properties to subclasses of event model
18:18:01 <wbailer> joakim: created movie ontology
18:18:11 <wbailer> ... ingested data from imdb, dbpedia
18:18:40 <wbailer> ... many advantages for querying, inference
18:18:49 <wbailer> ... could solve problems for us
18:19:02 <wbailer> ... concepts get natural grouping
18:19:26 <wbailer> veronique: eg person has natural mapping, no need to care about structure of names
18:19:45 <wbailer> ... no natural mapping for some properties, might need extensions
18:19:57 <wbailer> joakim: do we have a generic ontology?
18:20:11 <wbailer> veronique: different event models have been proposed
18:20:20 <wbailer> ... link between different models
18:20:55 <wbailer> joakim: would we define generic one and link our properties?
18:21:59 <florian> motools.sourceforge.net/event/event.html
18:23:20 <wbailer> [coffee break]
18:23:22 <wbailer> RRSAgent, make logs public 
18:23:30 <wbailer> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:23:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer
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18:55:33 <Daniel> http://www.w3.org/TR/dcontology/
19:02:21 <wbailer> topic: improvement of use case document
19:02:25 <wonsuk> http://www.w3.org/2009/06/26-mediaann-minutes.html
19:04:19 <joakim> scribe: Joakim
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19:04:54 <joakim> Veronique: we can send an email to the group if should define a generic ontology
19:08:18 <joakim> Chris: how should we define the mappings in the ontology document?
19:09:22 <Daniel> action: Veronique to send an email to the group to define an implementation approach of ontology with four suggested approaches
19:09:23 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Veronique
19:10:04 <joakim> Werner: also have to maintain the mappings
19:10:46 <Daniel> action: joakim to ask Veronique to send an email to the group to define an implementation approach of ontology with four suggested approaches
19:10:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-168 - Ask Veronique to send an email to the group to define an implementation approach of ontology with four suggested approaches [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2009-11-12].
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19:13:03 <joakim> Vernoniqu will try to update the mapping table with additional properties
19:14:45 <joakim> Chris: If we include generic concepts in the document we do more than we set out for
19:16:06 <joakim> we should have the mapping to generic concepts as a slice of the recommendation
19:16:17 <florian> s/Vernoniqu/Veronique
19:16:37 <Daniel> Joakim: why we should go generic concept ?
19:17:38 <Daniel> a separated implementation document seems good to us by several participants
19:20:06 <Daniel> Primer docs would be good place for having the illustration of generic concept and something like those texts if allowed
19:22:55 <Daniel> ext in Ontology docs Abstract needs to be elaborated
19:24:07 <Daniel> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Improvements_/_Enhancement_for_a_revision_of_the_%22Ontology_for_Media_Resource_1.0%22_document
19:25:00 <Daniel> briefly going through the link above
19:26:46 <wbailer> ACTION: vmalaise to update text on in scope formats in ontology doc (formats not in mapping table)
19:26:46 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - vmalaise
19:27:13 <wbailer> ACTION: veronique to update text on in scope formats in ontology doc (formats not in mapping table)
19:27:13 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - veronique
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19:32:33 <wbailer> action: wonsuk to update 4.1.1 of ontology doc (put text on voring etc there)
19:32:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-170 - Update 4.1.1 of ontology doc (put text on voring etc there) [on WonSuk Lee - due 2009-11-12].
19:33:20 <wbailer> action: dave to improve description of properties (together with veronique)
19:33:20 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - dave
19:33:34 <wbailer> action: dsinger to improve description of properties (together with veronique)
19:33:34 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - dsinger
19:40:36 <wbailer> action: veroniqueM to rewrite intro to be clear on what we mean by ontology
19:40:36 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - veroniqueM
19:43:51 <Daniel> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/mapping_table.html
19:44:43 <Chris> topic nr 10 can be removed
19:45:26 <Daniel> new types are added in http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/drafts/ontology10/WD/mapping_table.html
19:48:54 <Daniel> thierry added new types into the link according to stockholm meeting, but mapping table is not updated yet. Editors should review mapping table again
19:50:52 <wbailer> action: daniel to chase mapping table editors to restructure (following summary table) and update their tables
19:50:52 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - daniel
19:50:56 <wonsuk> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Format_mapping_review
19:51:34 <Chris> this is related to topic nr 12 of the Ontology improvements
19:52:33 <Daniel> Daniel will contact each corresponding editor (due is 1st Dec) http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Format_mapping_review
19:58:06 <Daniel> Data type in summary of mapping table as well as ontology docs will be elaborated later on
20:01:03 <Daniel> topic: loss of semantics: action item to Veronique to address that
20:06:41 <Daniel> Topic: Missing: Syntactic and semantic mapping, needs to be elaborated. Action Item to Felix
20:07:18 <wbailer> action: felix to define data type mappings as soon as the data types for the formats are defined
20:07:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-175 - Define data type mappings as soon as the data types for the formats are defined [on Felix Sasaki - due 2009-11-12].
20:07:29 <Daniel> Topic: Datatypes of properties is dropped and be part of #13
20:10:11 <Chris> item nr 19 is related to role types
20:10:14 <Chris> see wiki: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Sub_Types
20:10:31 <Daniel> Topic: Defining types for properties, http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Sub_Types
20:18:52 <Daniel> elements that contain type/value pairs, such as contributor, title (album, song, etc), location (recording, depicted, etc), date (create, publishing, etc) and more
20:20:43 <Daniel> dentifier: UMID, EASN, rating: review rating, MPAA, personal rating, collection: album, personal, my favorites, 
20:21:01 <Daniel>  e.g., Identifier: UMID, EASN, ating: review rating, MPAA, personal rating, collection: album, personal, my favorites, 
20:23:14 <Daniel> targetAudience: Age group, geographical
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21:00:50 <Daniel> rrsagent, draft minutes
21:00:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-mediaann-minutes.html Daniel
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21:13:22 <vmalais> joakim: wrap up of the previous discussions
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21:14:35 <vmalais> werner: we could make a separate page to describe the sub-properties for the core properties of the media ontology
21:15:11 <vmalais> ... we could think of a wiki approach to define the relevant subproperties
21:15:59 <vmalais> joakim: we started with the roles and relations, checked from EBU schemas
21:16:47 <vmalais> joakim: should be hierarchical, we culd have subproperties per media type
21:18:37 <vmalais> joakim: the list was elaborated from EBU and all media guide
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21:26:14 <vmalais> jean-pierre evain: EBU has made mappings between lots of schemas, we can benefit from these mappings
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21:26:58 <vmalais> joakim: we need a method to select the relevant subproperties, the group we benefit from your experience to choose the most relevant ones
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21:28:24 <vmalais> doug: I wrote a metadata schema, I am interested in yur selection of properties
21:29:40 <vmalais> joakim: we need sub-properties for our core properties, I made a short list for roles, relations, Jean-Pierre Evain is from EBU, he worked on the same topic, we would like to benefit from his experience
21:31:12 <vmalais> Jean-Pierre Evain: in the schemas I made the mappings for, it is not really necessary to have sub-properties
21:34:52 <vmalais> Jean-Pierre Evain: a possibility is to add the type information to the property name
21:35:16 <vmalais> ... property is title for example and "album" is the type
21:35:33 <vmalais> ... instead of making long lists of subproperties, because this will not be exhaustive
21:36:03 <vmalais> Werner: agreed that we will not be exhaustive, but we would like to define a set of relevant subproperties
21:41:26 <vmalais> Doug: let's try to clarify a terminological problem
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21:48:37 <vmalais> Jean-Pierre Evain: "type" is a common practice to define a list of subproperties
21:50:15 <vmalais> ... if the ontology would be in RDF I would go for subproperties, but as it is not, the notion of type is more relevant
21:52:07 <vmalais> ... now it is more a list of properties and mappings, like Dublin Core, you run into the same problems: the more subproperties you make, the harder it will be for other people to map to
21:52:34 <vmalais> chris: my probem is that if we don't do the subproperties, we can't define mappings between them
21:54:20 <vmalais> Jean-Pierre Evain: I can accept the selection of the core properties, at the high level where they are, but it is much less acceptable at a greater level of specificity in the properties
21:54:42 <vmalais> i.e. ok on the "title" level, but not on the "album title" level
21:55:59 <vmalais> doug: I made maxim, a simple specification, for a webapp author the extract information from a metadata file for video
21:56:19 <vmalais> ... the case I was interested in was to extract metadata
21:56:57 <vmalais> Jean-Pierre: if you want to extract as many information as possible, then the level of "title" is more relevant, isnt't it
21:57:15 <vmalais> ... you can make filetrs later if you get different types of titles
21:58:55 <florian> Veronique: we are not closing doors with defining subproperties
21:59:11 <florian> Jean-Pierre: ...but you are loosing semantics
21:59:44 <florian> Veronique: want to give the possibility to specialyse th search by subproperties
22:02:11 <florian> Jean-Pierre: information will be lost, only with the mapping the information will be saved
22:02:26 <florian> ...it depends what you are mapping
22:02:55 <florian> Werner: filtering would require a unique identifier
22:03:10 <florian> ... that?s way we try to define a small set
22:04:04 <florian> Doug: a user should be able to use this set everywhere
22:07:24 <florian> ...a certain functional core set with a mechanism for extension is what it should be
22:10:07 <florian> Daniel: please discuss further topics offline Doug and Jean-Pierre
22:10:24 <florian> Topic: Milstones of the MAWG
22:10:40 <florian> Daniel: we are a little bit delayed
22:11:19 <florian> ...use case and requirements doc needs no further work
22:11:45 <florian> ...ontology and api document should be LC in March 2010
22:11:55 <florian> ...also next F2F will be in March 2010
22:12:35 <florian> ...call for implementation should be May 2010 in order to move to PR and Rec
22:13:46 <florian> Doug: this timeline is still in time
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22:14:50 <florian> ...the documents must be precisely
22:15:20 <florian> ...the tests should only reflect the recommendation, so tests should be build as far as possible
22:15:49 <florian> ...avoid should and may
22:16:30 <florian> Doug: open issues are the test suites
22:16:46 <florian> s/Doug: open/Daniel: open
22:17:09 <florian> Doug: you need to have 2 implementations
22:18:03 <florian> Doug: one test could be "this five formats can be mapped to the ontology"
22:19:35 <florian> Daniel: do we need to publish the Primer?
22:20:03 <florian> Phillippe: it would be nice to have...not a req
22:20:22 <florian> ...it would be only a note
22:21:09 <florian> Doug: if the rec should be used, a primer is very important
22:21:21 <florian> ...you can get the primer perhaps by the help of the community
22:22:07 <florian> Joakim: how to concretize our work?
22:22:36 <florian> Doug: you should avoid optional things
22:23:05 <florian> Joakim: is there an example fot this?
22:23:11 <florian> Doug: Perhaps in SVG
22:24:30 <florian> s/fot this/for this
22:25:13 <joakim> test
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22:25:42 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#dom-events-conformance
22:26:56 <florian> Phillippe: you can also look at the security documents
22:28:02 <florian> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-qaframe-spec-20050817/
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22:29:26 <florian> Veronique: if we have several serialisations of the ontology, we could put it in the ontology document
22:31:02 <florian> Doug&Phillippe: go to CR before the group charter ends
22:33:36 <florian> ...then the time will be extended
22:33:50 <florian> ...but you will get last call comments
22:34:23 <florian> RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:34:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-mediaann-minutes.html florian
22:35:10 <florian> Joakim: major argument will be "why not use Dublin Core"
22:35:12 <dsinger> dsinger has joined #mediaann
22:35:18 <florian> ...but we have a answer to that
22:39:08 <florian> Doug: you have to get more precise in the API, give examples
22:39:44 <florian> Chris: it?s up to the implementation, how it accesses the metadata
22:40:44 <florian> Doug: there are common ways to get e.g. the MIME type
22:41:06 <florian> ... implementation may also query more sources
22:41:20 <florian> ...it should not be seen as a restriction
22:41:51 <florian> Chris: not in scope, where the metadata is stored
22:42:59 <florian> Doug: the format and location of the metadata should not be restricted
22:43:08 <florian> ...should be defined in a own section
22:45:05 <florian> ...should look at formats like RDFa and JSON
22:46:43 <florian> ...one reason not to put it in RDF is just one more semantic web technologie
22:47:15 <florian> ...Primers are good, because they are concentrated examples
22:48:52 <florian> Veronique: we have different ideas how to implement this ontology
22:48:53 <Daniel> updated milestone @ TPAC2009: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/images/a/aa/MAWG%E2%80%99s_deliverables_status.ppt
22:49:07 <florian> ...we want to add examples but don?t know where to put
22:49:31 <florian> Joakim: (show mapping table) would this "example" column be appropriate?
22:49:43 <florian> Jean-Pierre: makes not much sense to put this table into RDF
22:50:09 <florian> Werner: would help if you want to embbed it
22:50:26 <florian> s/embbed/embed
22:51:05 <florian> Doug: what are you defining in the API? get property xy (by perhaps filtering)?
22:51:21 <florian> Chris: API should allow mapping between metadata formats
22:51:30 <florian> ...mappings stored in the ontology
22:53:31 <florian> Doug: use one interface ala getMetadata(string propertyName)
22:53:44 <florian> Chris: we also thought about that
22:54:22 <florian> Werner: this version would be easier for developer
22:54:56 <florian> Doug: let us assume the ontology is a failure, but the API is a success
22:55:07 <florian> ...make the API general, so it is decoupled
22:59:08 <florian> (some discussion about pros and cons about the two implementation approaches)
23:02:47 <florian> Doug: talk to browser vendors, what implementation they would prefer
23:04:21 <florian> ...browser vendors like things like javascript prototyping
23:07:01 <florian> ...can provide the contact to such people
23:07:58 <florian> ...return types should be an array
23:08:20 <florian> ...each object in it should be dynamicly typed
23:11:50 <florian> ...you should be able to filter on e.g. date
23:14:27 <florian> Doug will formulate some important aspects via email
23:16:08 <florian> Jean-Pierre: please inform us about the context how people would use/implement the API
23:17:40 <florian> RRSAgent, draft minutes
23:17:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-mediaann-minutes.html florian
23:18:10 <florian> scribe florian
23:18:13 <florian> RRSAgent, draft minutes
23:18:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-mediaann-minutes.html florian
23:18:44 <florian> scribe: florian
23:18:46 <florian> RRSAgent, draft minutes
23:18:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-mediaann-minutes.html florian
23:43:52 <florian> florian has joined #mediaann
23:52:21 <Chris> scribe: Chris
23:52:30 <florian> florian has joined #mediaann
23:53:01 <Chris> Joakim: where is the API located?
23:53:19 <Chris> Joakim: 1. in the Web browser
23:53:43 <Chris> Joakim: 2. at the web server (backend)
23:54:00 <Chris> Joakim: 3. Other?
23:54:36 <Chris> Werner: different possibilities
23:54:59 <Chris> Werner: metadata is not necesarily at same location as api
23:55:53 <Chris> Werner: metadata could be separate or included in the media resource
23:56:19 <florian> scribe: Chris
23:56:20 <Chris> ... it shouldn't matter where the metadata is
23:58:42 <Chris> Joakim: should we redesign the API based on Doug's comments?
23:58:58 <Chris> Florian: we should ask feedback from the browser implementors