IRC log of swxg on 2009-10-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:00:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:00:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-irc
15:00:36 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:38 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7994
15:00:38 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:39 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:00:39 [trackbot]
Date: 28 October 2009
15:00:46 [hhalpin]
Zakim, agenda?
15:00:46 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:00:48 [Zakim]
12. Invited Speaker: David Recordon and Luke Shepard from Facebook [from hhalpin]
15:01:24 [hhalpin]
Zakim, agenda- 12
15:01:25 [Zakim]
agendum 12, Invited Speaker: David Recordon and Luke Shepard from Facebook, dropped
15:01:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.510.931.aaaa
15:01:40 [hhalpin]
Zakim, agenda+ Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-10-28T14:00-16:00GMT
15:01:42 [Zakim]
agendum 13 added
15:01:50 [hhalpin]
Zakim, agenda+ General Organization
15:01:50 [Zakim]
agendum 14 added
15:01:55 [Zakim]
+DKA
15:02:00 [hhalpin]
Zakim, agenda+ Invited Guest Invitations
15:02:00 [Zakim]
agendum 15 added
15:02:06 [hhalpin]
Zakim, agenda+ User Stories
15:02:06 [Zakim]
agendum 16 added
15:02:13 [hhalpin]
Zakim, agenda+ Final Report
15:02:13 [Zakim]
agendum 17 added
15:02:21 [DKA]
DKA has joined #swxg
15:02:22 [hhalpin]
Zakim, agenda+ # Invited Speaker: Joseph Smarr from Plaxo and Portable Contacts
15:02:22 [Zakim]
agendum 18 added
15:02:22 [oshani]
oshani has joined #swxg
15:02:27 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
15:02:27 [Zakim]
agendum 13. "Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-10-28T14:00-16:00GMT" taken up [from hhalpin]
15:02:29 [DKA]
zakim, who's here?
15:02:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Carine, Henry, DKA
15:02:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see oshani, DKA, RRSAgent, melvster, mischat, hhalpin, MacTed, caribou, bblfish, tinkster1, AlexPassant, karl, Zakim, trackbot
15:02:55 [CaptSolo]
CaptSolo has joined #swxg
15:03:14 [Zakim]
+ +0162272aabb
15:03:16 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software
15:03:19 [bblfish]
Zakim, aaaa is bblfish
15:03:19 [Zakim]
sorry, bblfish, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
15:03:29 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily MacTed
15:03:29 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
15:03:31 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:03:31 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:03:32 [mischat]
zakim, +0162272aabb is me
15:03:58 [caribou]
zakim, aabb is mischat
15:03:58 [Zakim]
+mischat; got it
15:03:59 [Zakim]
+??P24
15:04:05 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
15:04:05 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
15:04:13 [hhalpin]
Zakim, ??P24 is hhalpin
15:04:13 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
15:04:27 [Zakim]
+tinkster
15:04:28 [tinkster1]
zakim, mute me
15:04:28 [Zakim]
tinkster should now be muted
15:04:29 [mischat]
i have done it 3 times :(
15:04:37 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:04:37 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
15:04:45 [DKA]
Scribe: Dan
15:04:48 [hhalpin]
chair: hhalpin
15:04:48 [DKA]
ScribeNick: DKA
15:04:59 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's here?
15:04:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Carine, Henry, DKA, mischat (muted), MacTed (muted), hhalpin, tinkster (muted)
15:05:02 [DKA]
Harry: any comments on the agenda?
15:05:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see CaptSolo, oshani, DKA, RRSAgent, melvster, mischat, hhalpin, MacTed, caribou, bblfish, tinkster1, AlexPassant, karl, Zakim, trackbot
15:05:08 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 21st October 2009 as a true record
15:05:13 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-swxg-minutes.html
15:05:20 [DKA]
+1
15:05:33 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: SWXG WG Weekly -- 21st October 2009 are a true record
15:05:45 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. November 11th (Note that we are skiping the meeting of Nov. 4th due to conflict with TPAC)
15:06:03 [DKA]
Harry: next meeting will be Nov 11 - since we will skip next week due to TPAC.
15:06:06 [hhalpin]
RESOLVED: Wed. November 11th
15:06:07 [rreck]
rreck has joined #SWXG
15:06:28 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
15:06:28 [Zakim]
agendum 14. "General Organization" taken up [from hhalpin]
15:06:35 [DKA]
Dan: Should we have dial-in facilities at TPAC?
15:06:36 [Zakim]
+??P26
15:06:44 [DKA]
Harry: we need to reserve this now if we want it...
15:06:49 [rreck]
zakim, ??P26 is me
15:06:49 [tinkster1]
Probably not
15:06:50 [Zakim]
+rreck; got it
15:06:52 [DKA]
Harry: would anyone dial in if they are off-site?
15:07:00 [rreck]
zakim, mute me
15:07:00 [Zakim]
rreck should now be muted
15:07:04 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
15:07:04 [Zakim]
MacTed should no longer be muted
15:07:06 [hhalpin]
If anyone wants to, they can.
15:07:54 [DKA]
Harry: I will send an email out to the list - if we will get more than 3 people then I will request it.
15:08:08 [DKA]
Harry: I will include the agenda in the mail I send.
15:08:11 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:08:11 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:08:20 [DKA]
Harry: Any brief updates on TPAC or social web camp?
15:08:43 [bblfish]
http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara
15:08:53 [bblfish]
There are 68 people signed up
15:08:55 [DKA]
Dan: update on the camp - the last I saw there were 60 people singed up -
15:08:55 [lkagal]
lkagal has joined #swxg
15:08:57 [DKA]
Dan: http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara
15:09:34 [DKA]
Dan: Can people please send that around / facebook / twitter / identi.ca / whatever it... use sky-writing, etc...
15:09:40 [bblfish]
Sun is paying $10 for lunch
15:09:45 [hhalpin]
+1
15:09:52 [Zakim]
+ +1.858.442.aacc
15:10:10 [Zakim]
+ +03539149aadd
15:10:22 [CaptSolo]
Zakim: aadd is me
15:10:38 [hhalpin]
David Morin from Facebook.
15:10:47 [DKA]
Harry: Other good news on TPAC - we have a number of observers coming in...
15:10:49 [mischat]
there is an echo
15:11:08 [DKA]
Harry: Any updates on actions?
15:11:11 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: tinkster to summarize Evan's talk
15:11:17 [tinkster1]
I've posted that to the list already.
15:11:22 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members.
15:11:24 [rreck]
tinkster did you get my email?
15:11:25 [mischat]
hehe, i have another couple of actions
15:11:26 [DKA]
Harry: Giant congratulations to mischat for finishing his action.
15:11:31 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION:Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.
15:11:37 [tinkster1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Oct/0051.html
15:11:43 [tinkster1]
Yes.
15:11:51 [bblfish]
there is an echo
15:11:56 [rreck]
i think is almost done
15:11:59 [tinkster1]
I think it was changed to DONE last week.
15:11:59 [rreck]
mine
15:12:00 [mischat]
harry is echoing
15:12:02 [lkagal]
lkagal has joined #swxg
15:12:05 [DKA]
Zakim, who's talking?
15:12:07 [bblfish]
perhaps everyone is
15:12:16 [Zakim]
DKA, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DKA (9%), Henry (32%), +03539149aadd (23%), hhalpin (14%)
15:12:20 [rreck]
echo is based on noise canceling
15:12:22 [tinkster1]
everyone seems to be.
15:12:43 [mischat]
yay better
15:12:47 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Adam to write up Matt Lee's talk
15:12:58 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION:mtuffied to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies.
15:13:04 [hhalpin]
ACTION:oshani to write up David Recordon and Luke Shepart talk.
15:13:08 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
15:13:08 [Zakim]
agendum 15. "Invited Guest Invitations" taken up [from hhalpin]
15:13:10 [DKA]
Harry: Ted will be talking about applying social tech to w3.org...
15:13:25 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: cperey to book global lockbox as an invited speaker
15:13:30 [mischat]
i have no joy with BBC persia
15:13:33 [jsmarr]
jsmarr has joined #swxg
15:13:37 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: mtiffiel to invite BBC Persia people to talk about their use of social media
15:13:41 [mischat]
nope will try calling them again
15:13:41 [mischat]
will hassle
15:13:47 [mischat]
for another week
15:13:49 [mischat]
:)
15:13:50 [jsmarr]
hi i'm on the call
15:13:59 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: petef to look into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris Messina
15:14:14 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
15:14:14 [Zakim]
agendum 16. "User Stories" taken up [from hhalpin]
15:14:26 [DKA]
Harry: we can talk user stories and final report next week [at TPAC].
15:14:27 [hhalpin]
Will talk about this next week at TPAC.
15:14:47 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: adam to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks
15:14:51 [Zakim]
+??P34
15:14:53 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION : rreck to flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple identies and null provenance
15:14:59 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION:oshani to reframe the geolocation/intent/portability
15:15:04 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: bblfish to relabel data protection use case to be about controlled access and takedown to data "about" you
15:15:06 [melvster]
Zakim, ??P34 is me
15:15:06 [Zakim]
+melvster; got it
15:15:07 [rreck]
mine is almost done
15:15:11 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: bblfish to merge Family and Group access usecases
15:15:11 [rreck]
i promise
15:15:18 [hhalpin]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: hhalpin explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases
15:15:22 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
15:15:22 [Zakim]
agendum 17. "Final Report" taken up [from hhalpin]
15:15:26 [hhalpin]
Zakim, agenda 18
15:15:26 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'agenda 18', hhalpin
15:15:30 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
15:15:30 [Zakim]
agendum 17 was just opened, hhalpin
15:15:55 [bblfish]
yes, I have not had a lot of time to do much, on my use cases as I have been quite busy organising http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara
15:15:59 [hhalpin]
Zakim, close this agendum
15:15:59 [Zakim]
agendum 17 closed
15:16:01 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:16:02 [Zakim]
18. # Invited Speaker: Joseph Smarr from Plaxo and Portable Contacts [from hhalpin]
15:16:03 [hhalpin]
Zakim, next agendum
15:16:03 [Zakim]
agendum 18. "# Invited Speaker: Joseph Smarr from Plaxo and Portable Contacts" taken up [from hhalpin]
15:16:24 [hhalpin]
http://josephsmarr.com/
15:16:36 [hhalpin]
http://www.plaxo.com/
15:16:44 [hhalpin]
http://portablecontacts.net/
15:16:45 [DKA]
Joseph Smarr: I'm CTO at Plaxo - Plaxo's about contact management, keeping together sources of contact data...
15:17:01 [hhalpin]
http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html
15:17:23 [DKA]
Joseph: Lately I've been involved with the so-called open stack. This is also strategic for Plaxo.
15:17:59 [DKA]
Joseph: A lot of these technologies are making progress - but everything on the Web wants to add a social component. In order to get that people data
15:18:20 [Zakim]
+Adam
15:18:25 [DKA]
... reconnecting to those people you know is daunting. Most sites are scraping your data using your username/password.
15:18:56 [DKA]
... until now the tools weren't available to do anything else. Every single site has built their own contacts protocol / db / etc...
15:19:26 [hhalpin]
good point re vendor-specific APIs over scraping
15:19:32 [Adam]
Adam has joined #swxg
15:19:37 [danbri]
danbri has joined #swxg
15:19:38 [DKA]
... genesis of portable contacts came out of [trying to solve this problem]. Because even APIs when they are proprietary are not solving the problem.
15:19:38 [rreck]
ha!
15:20:03 [DKA]
... someone else building contact API should be able to use them... With portable contacts there should be a network effect -
15:20:28 [DKA]
... so we get away from this vendor-by-vendor integration. This is more how the Web should work.
15:20:49 [DKA]
... portablecontacts.net
15:21:01 [Zakim]
+cperey
15:21:14 [rreck]
simple sounds like a good idea
15:21:19 [DKA]
... getting adoption is the hardest thing - the best way to get adoption is to make the protocol simple ... minimal tool-chain complexity...
15:21:49 [DKA]
... it's not just having a standard schema for contacts, but specifying how you authenticate, etc... end-to-end. But each piece is "not invented" as possible.
15:21:58 [DKA]
... Schema is taken from v-card, etc...
15:22:02 [cperey]
cperey has joined #swxg
15:22:04 [Adam]
q+
15:22:26 [Zakim]
+??P37
15:22:31 [danbri]
zakim, ??P37 is danbri
15:22:31 [Zakim]
+danbri; got it
15:22:32 [DKA]
... the discovery protocol is XRD. The auth protocols are http basic or oauth. Simple REST-style [API].
15:22:55 [Zakim]
-melvster
15:23:02 [hhalpin]
:) pausing for breath!
15:23:06 [DKA]
... that's basically where things are at. It's a draft spec for a year. Plaxo, Google, MS, [others?] have implemented...
15:23:17 [hhalpin]
Myspace has implemented, and part of OpenSocial.
15:24:09 [DKA]
... have also got together with the open social folks - they have specfified REST-ful protocols for contacts. They did something similar. We worked with them to make open social a subset of portable contacts.
15:24:36 [hhalpin]
ack Adam
15:24:46 [lkagal]
lkagal has joined #swxg
15:24:59 [DKA]
Adam: have you given thought how it might have value to the enterprise?
15:25:00 [hhalpin]
Enterprise deployment of PortableContacts...
15:25:48 [DKA]
Joseph: portable contacts useful as itself as a useful protocol - so if you're building applications that share contact info [even within the enterprise] then I suggest using portable contacts format.
15:25:57 [Zakim]
+??P34
15:26:05 [danbri]
q+ to ask how far schema extensions can be supported in the protocol
15:26:08 [melvster]
Zakim, ??P34 is me
15:26:08 [Zakim]
+melvster; got it
15:26:25 [DKA]
... if you can use portable contacts then you only have to build it once if you want to integrate with other social networks, etc...
15:26:29 [DKA]
q?
15:26:35 [DKA]
q+
15:26:39 [hhalpin]
q+
15:27:02 [hhalpin]
ack danbri
15:27:02 [Zakim]
danbri, you wanted to ask how far schema extensions can be supported in the protocol
15:27:04 [DKA]
joseph: the other thing we do is helping to educate market...
15:27:13 [rreck]
louder please
15:27:42 [lkagal]
lkagal has joined #swxg
15:27:45 [DKA]
Danbri: How far can the schema be extended without [breaking things]?
15:27:55 [danbri]
q: how far can schema be extended beforeyou go beyond what protocol can understand? what's the plan for navigating that tension?
15:28:07 [mischat]
:)
15:28:16 [DKA]
Joseph: we like the html model of extensibility - if you want to extend then you can and we'll ignore it if we don't understand it.
15:28:59 [rreck]
+q
15:29:10 [DKA]
Joseph: within each field there is a type value and each in each type values there are canonically specified values but you can use your own as well... the auth protocols are also extensible.
15:29:50 [hhalpin]
So we have examples of those extra fields.
15:29:59 [hhalpin]
Wondering if there's a wiki where these can be listed...
15:30:23 [DKA]
Joseph: it's intentionally quiet around namespacing, extension mechanisms, etc... entire spec is intended to be extensible.
15:30:23 [hhalpin]
ack DKA
15:30:24 [danbri]
q?
15:30:59 [DKA]
Joseph: Also - there's already been a lot of talk of using the schema in other contexts - e.g. webfinger.
15:31:27 [DKA]
Joseph: some work on an XML namespace is beginning. We could use some help and guidance on that.
15:32:05 [danbri]
http://groups.google.com/group/portablecontacts/browse_thread/thread/6954a050d65485bf/ced1b56aaa246a85?lnk=gst&q=brickley#ced1b56aaa246a85
15:32:08 [danbri]
some discussion of xml ns there
15:32:11 [danbri]
grddl etc
15:32:15 [DKA]
Harry: On that topic - it' would be interesting to see more alignment - between FOAF and portable contacts.
15:32:27 [danbri]
q?
15:33:03 [DKA]
Dan: What's the IPR policy of portable contacts, etc...
15:33:55 [DKA]
Joseph: We are looking at open web foundation or something... We're not going to make a separate foundation. Most of the people who have contributed to the spec understand that it will go in that direction.
15:33:59 [hhalpin]
ack hhalpin
15:34:00 [DKA]
q?
15:34:31 [rreck]
zakim, unmute me
15:34:31 [Zakim]
rreck should no longer be muted
15:34:39 [DKA]
Harry: [relating the vcard schema effort...]
15:34:50 [tinkster1]
http://microformats.org/wiki/jcard
15:35:11 [DKA]
Harry: [circular statements that have broken my fingers]
15:35:13 [rreck]
woman's voice cross talk
15:36:15 [DKA]
Joseph: Apple is spearheading a card-dav effort - which is not using the XML schema.
15:36:37 [danbri]
in http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html#schema i'd love to see a distinction between PC core, and the opensocial stuff which seems less firm
15:36:44 [DKA]
Joseph: there wasn't much in there [vcard xml schema] that was controversial.
15:37:02 [DKA]
Joseph: it would be good [to align these]
15:37:47 [DKA]
Joseph: if you are interested then please say so on the [ietf?] mailing list.
15:38:13 [hhalpin]
IETF VCard 4.0 list.
15:38:25 [danbri]
q+ to ask about a PC core (that FOAF might adopt for base addressbook; then diverge on favourite-movie or trust vocab / group descriptions detail)
15:38:34 [DKA]
Joseph: Needs to be linked up to JSON format. JSON can be serializable in modern languages like PHP, etc... so no need for parsing.
15:38:54 [DKA]
Harry: it appears that portable contacts is a proper superset of vcard3.
15:38:56 [danbri]
(also re I18N of names ...)
15:39:01 [hhalpin]
1-to-1 mapping above vCard 3.0 and modernized some spellings
15:39:03 [hhalpin]
:)
15:39:23 [DKA]
Joseph: we modernized some of the spellings - adr to address. Didn't need to be as terse as older standards...
15:39:29 [danbri]
http://wiki.portablecontacts.net/
15:39:53 [hhalpin]
ACTION: hhalpin to check out FOAF and PortableContacts mapping.
15:39:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-102 - Check out FOAF and PortableContacts mapping. [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-11-04].
15:40:03 [DKA]
Joseph: there is a converted between portable contacts and vcard...
15:40:12 [danbri]
http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100 re names
15:40:44 [DKA]
Harry: re additions to vcard 3 spec like tags and photos - this was taken from empirical data about what people were using, right?
15:40:47 [DKA]
Joseph: Yes.
15:41:05 [DKA]
Harry: does Plaxo keep a record of what sites support tagging, etc...
15:41:55 [danbri]
+1 on both full field or broken out field or both
15:42:13 [danbri]
if both, there is assumption that one is derrived from the other
15:42:20 [DKA]
Joseph: We used 2 sources for info - all the address book APIs. We used a "composite" field (for e.g. address) where you can store both a composite and broken down version.
15:42:38 [hhalpin]
chris messina has a blog post has a big spreadsheet on contacts APIs.
15:43:10 [hhalpin]
referred to OpenSocial (i.e. Kevin Marks) did the field study on social networking data (top 50)
15:43:25 [hhalpin]
I remember looking for a URI for that spreadsheet!!
15:43:31 [hhalpin]
Anyone have it to ping into IRC
15:43:56 [hhalpin]
I saw it once..thought it was a Google Doc.
15:43:59 [caribou]
q+ to ask about policies attached to data
15:44:04 [hhalpin]
q+
15:44:07 [hhalpin]
ack rreck
15:44:16 [DKA1]
DKA1 has joined #swxg
15:44:34 [DKA1]
ScribeNick: DKA1
15:44:51 [DKA1]
Ron: it would be useful to have uni-directional relationships.
15:45:03 [danbri]
"but relationships MUST have been bi-directionally confirmed" is interesting
15:45:06 [danbri]
assumes a b/g db
15:45:24 [DKA1]
Joseph: our goal was not to model the social graph, but we wanted to express uni- and bi-directional relathionships.
15:46:01 [DKA1]
... we have tags and relationships. That's meant to be used for uni-directional relationships. In Plaxo when you connect to someone you can connect as family, friends or business.
15:46:04 [lkagal]
lkagal has joined #swxg
15:46:24 [rreck]
i totally get what you are saying thanks
15:46:26 [DKA1]
... when you have bi-directional relationship then you have a special relationship.
15:46:29 [hhalpin]
ack danbri
15:46:29 [Zakim]
danbri, you wanted to ask about a PC core (that FOAF might adopt for base addressbook; then diverge on favourite-movie or trust vocab / group descriptions detail)
15:46:40 [rreck]
zakim, mute me
15:46:40 [Zakim]
rreck should now be muted
15:46:59 [DKA1]
Danbri: on bi-directional confirmation. Does this means there is an assumption of a backing database?
15:47:17 [hhalpin]
hmmm...just starting thinking of XFN/hCard mappings as well....
15:47:37 [DKA1]
Joseph: the idea is that the semantics are relative to the provider of the contacts information. If you want to infer things like connection or relationship then you are trusting the site...
15:47:50 [rreck]
great observation
15:48:00 [danbri]
q?
15:48:09 [DKA1]
Joseph: it doesn't [formalize] the provenance.
15:48:17 [bblfish]
q?
15:48:22 [bblfish]
q+
15:48:38 [DKA1]
... if you think there's a compelling use then go build it and jump on the mailing list...
15:48:40 [DKA1]
q?
15:49:22 [DKA1]
Danbri: do you plan to make any distinction of the core of portable contacts and the stuff that's coming in from opensocial?
15:50:02 [DKA1]
... your schema has some things like "looking for" and some wooly things from opensocial.
15:50:32 [DKA1]
Joseph: they're not formally separated but they are called out distinctly. I think the world is changing pretty rapidly [as regards what is "core" contact data].
15:50:40 [hhalpin]
My guess is we are going to run over 10-15 minutes.
15:50:43 [hhalpin]
Is this OK with people?
15:51:09 [DKA1]
... on Facebook you care about a phone number but you also care about IM addresses another social information that people have put on [their profiles].
15:51:26 [hhalpin]
ack caribou
15:51:26 [Zakim]
caribou, you wanted to ask about policies attached to data
15:52:26 [rreck]
+1 run over
15:53:04 [DKA1]
Danbri: how much naming stuff do you want to do? Describing family names properly for every culture / country....
15:53:23 [DKA1]
Danbri: nobody's done it yet - is portable contacts going to do this?
15:54:34 [DKA1]
Joseph: We try to be internationally savvy. If you have feedback about what else we could do please input it [on our mailing list]. In some cultures people have multiple names. But adding that complexity for everyone...
15:55:24 [danbri]
when we write our final report - maybe we should suggest some joint pc/w3c effort to evaluate the i18n aspects of naming and come up with a 'good enough for everyone' strategy?
15:55:36 [hhalpin]
+1 danbri
15:55:43 [DKA1]
Caribou: I understand it's nice to transfer data from one service to another - but if I fine-tune my privacy data in one site and then the data is transferred to another site then the policies are not transferred withthe data.
15:56:10 [danbri]
harry, can you bring that up, you've got better audio....
15:56:12 [DKA1]
Joseph: Yes - the protocol is designed to only transfer the data, not the privacy metadata.
15:56:20 [hhalpin]
ok...will bring this up.
15:56:34 [hhalpin]
That's a place where the W3C is doing some work I think
15:56:36 [DKA1]
Joseph: in a fully-interoperable soclai web this would be handled. Needs to be explored further...
15:56:44 [hhalpin]
Carine - do you have a URI?
15:56:49 [hhalpin]
for policy language stuff?
15:56:53 [hhalpin]
ack bblfish
15:56:54 [DKA1]
... There's a portable contacts google group - open to everyone.
15:56:57 [rreck]
privacy seems against social networking business models
15:57:32 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2009/policy-ws/cfp.html
15:57:40 [hhalpin]
that's the w3c workshop on access.
15:57:49 [hhalpin]
OpenID uses URIs.
15:57:51 [danbri]
well, back to final report? i'd like us to agree that this base core (names stuff, addresses ... but not turnOns/turnOffs) deserves to be done once, well, in a way that works worldwide
15:58:01 [DKA1]
Henry: [the open stack] always seems a little more complicated then it should be. Seems to be "increasing the powers of silos". Seems like the simple way to identify people would be by URL.
15:58:16 [caribou]
hhalpin, the W3C PLING is looking at sticky policies
15:58:37 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/Policy/pling/wiki/Main_Page
15:58:38 [danbri]
... and PortableContacts imho is the most credible recent effort to bring together addressbook and social network field sets; I hope w3c can add an 18n perspective and assist in getting input from rest of planet
15:58:41 [DKA1]
Henry: if you look at open social - the way people are identified the first four characters are split off - forcing all URLs to be URNs... It seems to force complexity.
15:58:48 [hhalpin]
Carine - would it be worthwhile to have PLING do a presentation after the Nov. workshop?
15:59:02 [hhalpin]
We are booked most of Nov, but Dec. is free for invited speakers.
15:59:12 [hhalpin]
I'd like to finish up with Invited speakers by Jan so we can move to final report mode...
15:59:28 [DKA1]
Joseph: to clarify - there is a unique identifier ID field for each contact. It's been a URN by convention but it's meant to be a local stable identifier. But in addition the contacts can have emails URLs, etc...
15:59:38 [Zakim]
-Carine
15:59:41 [hhalpin]
I was not clear how mature the policy language work was.
15:59:52 [DKA1]
Joseph: rather than it just being a URL you can explicitly break out the domain, username, etc...
16:00:28 [DKA1]
Joseph: so flickr, twitter, etc... can be broken out.... to strongly identify a user across silos.
16:00:52 [hhalpin]
q?
16:00:57 [DKA1]
Joseph: and the fact that there is a format to use to export the data should be helping to move away from silos and towards interop.
16:01:00 [hhalpin]
ack hhalpin
16:02:24 [DKA1]
Harry: The task fo the SWXG - we're interested in seeing what areas the W3C could play a role [or not] in the wider social web ecosystem. You could imagine something very light-weight... For example, reviewing internationalization (Richard Ishida).
16:02:51 [DKA1]
... having some sort of relationship between W3C and OpenWeb Foundation.
16:03:28 [DKA1]
... we could recommend that the W3C look into standardizing things. Things like portable contacts, they are already standards, but could W3C have a role here?
16:03:33 [DKA1]
... any opinions?
16:03:46 [hhalpin]
we'll have eran on I think in 2 weeks.
16:03:49 [hhalpin]
or 3
16:04:09 [Zakim]
-cperey
16:04:25 [hhalpin]
expertise around internationalization and with others standards
16:04:38 [DKA1]
Joseph: I'm a big believer in standards and communities. Both as a structure for collaboration and to add gravitas. I think those are valuable suggestions. Last thing we want is a set of competing standards bodies.
16:05:36 [DKA1]
Joseph: diversity is good.
16:06:03 [DKA1]
Joseph: all parties should feel like their voices are heard...
16:06:50 [DKA1]
Harry: One issue facing w3c is the membership structure. This incubator group is open - more or less anyone can join - but that's not normal for w3c. Is that a barrier [to participation
16:07:01 [DKA1]
....] in w3c?
16:07:34 [DKA1]
... we have OWF on the phone in 2 or three weeks and we are trying to figure out what they are doing with process...
16:09:10 [DKA1]
Joseph: Portable contacts has happened very organically. Mix of big companies, small companies, independents, etc... I understand why some of these bodies have rules about charter and IPR upfront, but nature of some of these efforts is light and bottom-up...
16:09:58 [Zakim]
- +03539149aadd
16:10:17 [DKA1]
Joseph: [path to standardization] could move from light-weight process to more formalized standards body...
16:10:37 [DKA1]
Joseph: to the extent that more process is necessary then absolutely.
16:11:00 [danbri]
ok here's a quick braindump re FOAF and Portable Contacts - http://wiki.foaf-project.org/w/DanBri/PortableContactsAndFOAFLinkage
16:11:11 [danbri]
... can take that to the list for discussion cc Joseph
16:12:18 [hhalpin]
1 year and a half, pretty stable around 2009...
16:12:45 [DKA1]
q+ to ask whether Joseph can join us for socialwebcamp...?
16:13:01 [Zakim]
-DKA
16:13:50 [hhalpin]
have had as updates.
16:14:41 [hhalpin]
or on the mailing list.
16:15:02 [hhalpin]
ACTION: hhalpin to ping issue richard ishida to join portable contacts list
16:15:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-103 - Ping issue richard ishida to join portable contacts list [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-11-04].
16:15:27 [danbri]
q - jsmarr, are you happy with x-posted threads, if we cc public-xg-socialweb@w3.org and pc list?
16:17:01 [hhalpin]
yes
16:17:10 [mischat]
bye all
16:17:11 [Adam]
thanks joseph1
16:17:14 [Zakim]
-mischat
16:17:56 [bblfish]
thanks joseph1
16:18:06 [danbri]
If designing a form or database that will accept names from people with a variety of backgrounds, you should ask yourself whether you really need to have separate fields for given name and family name.
16:18:07 [danbri]
This will depend on what you need to do with the data, but obviously it will be simpler to just use the full name as the user provides it, where possible.""""
16:18:11 [danbri]
from http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100
16:18:22 [hhalpin]
thanks alot jsmarr!
16:18:28 [Zakim]
-tinkster
16:18:28 [hhalpin]
Meeting adjourned
16:18:29 [Zakim]
- +1.858.442.aacc
16:18:31 [Zakim]
-Henry
16:18:37 [jsmarr]
thanks guys
16:18:37 [Zakim]
-Adam
16:18:39 [Zakim]
-melvster
16:18:47 [jsmarr]
btw, is this irc transcript available/archived on the web at all/
16:18:47 [danbri]
jsmarr, when we do a call on widget apis for social i'll bug you to join us again ... interesting links with mobile web there...
16:18:47 [hhalpin]
We'll ping Ted Guild over looking at PortableContacts for w3.org when his time frees up.
16:18:47 [jsmarr]
?
16:18:54 [danbri]
rrsagent, pointer?
16:18:54 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-irc#T16-18-54
16:18:57 [jsmarr]
e.g. that i could link to for others to see the transcript
16:19:01 [danbri]
rrsagent, please make the logs public
16:19:01 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'please make the logs public', danbri. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:19:02 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/
16:19:15 [hhalpin]
trackbot, end meeting
16:19:15 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
16:19:15 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been DKA, Carine, +1.510.931.aaaa, Henry, +0162272aabb, MacTed, mischat, hhalpin, tinkster, rreck, +1.858.442.aacc, +03539149aadd, melvster,
16:19:16 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:19:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html trackbot
16:19:16 [jsmarr]
perfect, thanks
16:19:17 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
16:19:17 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-actions.rdf :
16:19:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: oshani to write up David Recordon and Luke Shepart talk. [1]
16:19:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-irc#T15-13-04
16:19:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: hhalpin to check out FOAF and PortableContacts mapping. [2]
16:19:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-irc#T15-39-53
16:19:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: hhalpin to ping issue richard ishida to join portable contacts list [3]
16:19:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-irc#T16-15-02
16:19:20 [Zakim]
... Adam, cperey, danbri