IRC log of rdfa on 2009-10-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:50:11 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:50:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:50:27 [manu]
scribe: manu
14:50:31 [manu]
Chair: Manu Sporny
14:50:37 [manu]
Present: Manu_Sporny
14:50:43 [manu]
zakim, this will be rdfa
14:50:43 [Zakim]
ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:51:03 [manu]
Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force
14:51:15 [manu]
14:51:26 [manu]
14:51:59 [manu]
Regrets: Steven Pemberton
14:52:08 [manu]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:52:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate manu
14:52:12 [manu]
rrsagent, make log public
14:52:50 [manu]
s/Regrets: Steven Pemberton/Regrets: Steven_Pemberton
14:52:53 [manu]
s/Regrets: Steven Pemberton/Regrets: Steven_Pemberton/g
14:52:56 [manu]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:52:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate manu
14:56:41 [manu]
Topic: Action Items
14:59:55 [ShaneM]
ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:00:56 [markbirbeck]
markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
15:01:10 [markbirbeck]
zakim, code?
15:01:14 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:01:21 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:01:24 [Zakim]
15:01:33 [ShaneM]
zakim, I am McCarron
15:01:44 [manu]
Present+ Shane_McCarron
15:01:47 [markbirbeck]
zakim, I am Spartacus
15:01:56 [Zakim]
15:01:59 [Zakim]
ok, ShaneM, I now associate you with McCarron
15:01:59 [Zakim]
sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'Spartacus'
15:02:10 [Zakim]
15:02:12 [markbirbeck]
zakim, I am ??
15:02:12 [Zakim]
sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '??'
15:02:12 [manu]
zakim, I am ??P12
15:02:13 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:02:13 [Zakim]
+manu; got it
15:02:13 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:02:15 [Zakim]
15:02:22 [markbirbeck]
zakim, I am ??
15:02:26 [Zakim]
+markbirbeck; got it
15:03:06 [Zakim]
15:03:15 [benadida]
benadida has joined #rdfa
15:05:41 [manu]
ACTION: Manu change test suite to use Exclusive Canonical XMLLiteral tests [recorded in]
15:05:43 [manu]
-- continues
15:05:59 [manu]
Ivan: I raised some questions on mailing list -- what's the view of future RDFa plans.
15:06:06 [manu]
Ivan: What do we want to do/publish?
15:06:32 [manu]
Ivan: I'd like to know the plan.
15:06:52 [manu]
ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about implementation re: c14n [recorded in]
15:07:15 [manu]
-- continues
15:09:26 [ShaneM]
harness at
15:09:44 [ShaneM]
oh. no. not that one!
15:09:44 [manu]
Manu: bug with Jena, working with Andy Seaborne to figure out what's wrong
15:09:52 [manu]
15:10:29 [manu]
Manu: That's the new test harness with XHTML1, HTML4, HTML5
15:10:46 [manu]
ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded in]
15:10:49 [manu]
-- continues
15:10:57 [manu]
ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in]
15:11:15 [manu]
-- continues
15:11:44 [manu]
Topic: Next steps for RDFa
15:11:55 [manu]
Mark: A couple of different things
15:12:07 [manu]
Mark: The basic question of prioritization...
15:12:19 [manu]
Mark: Javascript/DOM API, @profile, etc.
15:12:40 [manu]
Mark: What are our motivations?
15:12:52 [manu]
Mark: and where will this work be done?
15:13:19 [manu]
Mark: A bit of frustration because we don't know where we're putting the work.
15:13:33 [manu]
Mark: Hampering new ideas and innovation because we don't know where to put the work.
15:13:55 [manu]
Mark: Could we put a couple of new things into the HTML+RDFa draft without damaging anything?
15:14:21 [manu]
Mark: Should we try to address HTML+RDFa issues?
15:14:38 [ShaneM]
q+ to discuss publication issues
15:14:47 [manu]
ack ShaneM
15:15:06 [manu]
Shane: Read through the thread - I think that there are some procedural issues...
15:15:25 [manu]
Shane: From a publication perspective, we wanted existing REC to remain relevant as a base spec.
15:15:45 [manu]
Shane: Possible to introduce things in HTML+RDFa level, we don't want XHTML+RDFa to get out of step with HTML version
15:15:58 [manu]
Shane: Don't know if we can do radical changes to CURIE processing.
15:16:21 [manu]
Ivan: Procedural issues - putting on my admin hat...
15:16:37 [manu]
Ivan: WG charter stops at end of the year, for the time being we don't know what would replace it.
15:16:46 [manu]
Ivan: We have discussed an IG or a WG for RDFa.
15:17:07 [manu]
Ivan: There are two major stumbling blocks to address with RDFa WG..
15:17:34 [manu]
Ivan: If the work this group would do is exclusively HTML... then there will be push-back to make this group as purely under HTML WG.
15:18:30 [manu]
Ivan: Other stumbling block is that this TF is mostly Invited Experts... will be difficult for W3C management to accept a WG filled with mostly Invited Experts.
15:18:52 [manu]
Ivan: We could issue edited REC of RDFa - where we try to fold in all the errata.
15:19:18 [manu]
Ivan: I don't think that this group will have the time to do much more than that.
15:19:30 [manu]
Ben: Who should we submit this feedback to?
15:20:14 [manu]
Ben: A bit concerned about the difficulty in creating a WG for technology that has been clearly adopted by Google/Yahoo.
15:20:28 [manu]
Ben: How do we ensure that W3C is reflecting actual usage.
15:20:53 [manu]
Ivan: You should raise that point as an AC rep.
15:21:18 [manu]
Ivan: We should try to see which W3C members would be interested in joining the RDFa WG.
15:21:55 [manu]
Ivan: Yahoo! is back as a member now, so I would hope that Peter might want to join.
15:22:15 [manu]
Ivan: Who else?
15:22:50 [manu]
Ivan: I won't be at TPAC, unfortunately - Thomas Roessler will be there, so he will talk with Raman and Peter, maybe.
15:23:07 [manu]
Ivan: If we have enough momentum, we can come up with a charter for an RDFa WG.
15:24:43 [manu]
Manu: Why don't we commit to going forward with an RDFa WG.
15:25:13 [manu]
Ivan: We need at least one more member to be interested.
15:25:53 [manu]
Ivan: We have to be careful in the charter - we are not doing this as HTML - work items must be included that are not HTML-specific.
15:26:06 [manu]
Ivan: The RDFa attribute set can be used in non-HTML/XML dialects as well.
15:26:16 [manu]
Ivan: Perhaps, RDFa Core 1.1 should be a charter item.
15:27:39 [manu]
ACTION: Ben, Ivan and Manu to draft an RDFa WG and move that initiative forward.
15:27:56 [manu]
ACTION: Ivan to talk with Peter Mika at ISWC2009 about RDFa WG.
15:28:14 [manu]
ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter.
15:28:47 [manu]
ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG.
15:29:04 [manu]
Ivan: We should mark up the RDFa WG charter in HTML
15:30:05 [manu]
Mark: quick suggestions for new members of RDFa WG - Linked Data community
15:30:12 [manu]
Mark: OpenLink - Virtuoso
15:31:06 [manu]
Mark: Gov2 stuff - maybe they would be interested in joining.
15:32:07 [manu]
Topic: Discuss and approve Shane's errata text
15:32:20 [manu]
15:33:13 [ivan]
15:34:23 [manu]
Manu: Any objections to approving this erratum?
15:35:01 [manu]
Ivan: What does the current XHTML spec say about attribute values?
15:35:11 [manu]
Shane: It defers to HTM4, which is case insensitive.
15:35:15 [manu]
Ivan: Ah, yes.
15:35:33 [manu]
Manu: Any objections?
15:35:35 [manu]
Ivan: +1
15:35:44 [ShaneM]
15:35:46 [markbirbeck]
15:35:47 [benadida]
15:36:18 [manu]
RESOLUTION: Include erratum on case insensitivity for attribute values:
15:37:28 [manu]
Topic: Test Cases
15:37:30 [manu]
15:38:49 [manu]
Manu: TC 134
15:39:21 [manu]
Manu: This is affected by the resolution we just made... upper-case attribute values for things like rel="NEXT" should generate a triple.
15:39:25 [manu]
Ivan: Looks okay to me
15:39:30 [manu]
Manu: +1
15:39:57 [manu]
Shane: +1
15:40:03 [benadida]
15:40:24 [manu]
Mark: We might want to change the URL to something that makes more sense like,
15:40:40 [ShaneM]
Looks good to me
15:40:47 [manu]
RESOLUTION: TC 134 approved
15:42:08 [manu]
Manu: Moving on to TC 140
15:43:07 [manu]
Manu: Do all of us agree that this markup shouldn't generate a triple
15:43:35 [manu]
Manu: This should be a negative test and should have documentation stating that it is negative.
15:48:36 [manu]
Mark: Should we make this use BOUND?
15:48:40 [manu]
Mark: or NOT BOUND?
15:50:25 [manu]
Manu: Rather not change the way we do negative tests right now, could change it in the future.
15:50:35 [ShaneM]
15:50:35 [ivan]
15:50:37 [manu]
Manu: Any objections to passing TC 140?
15:50:40 [markbirbeck]
15:50:40 [manu]
Manu: +1
15:50:43 [benadida]
15:50:50 [manu]
RESOLUTION: TC 140 approved
15:51:58 [manu]
Manu: TC 142
15:53:01 [manu]
Shane: This is a bit pathological, but that's fine...
15:53:21 [manu]
Mark: If you wanted to make statements about XML, this would be fine.
15:56:09 [manu]
Mark: Can you have an element that has <xml:test>... in RDF/XML?
15:56:25 [markbirbeck]
?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
15:56:25 [markbirbeck]
15:56:26 [markbirbeck]
15:56:26 [markbirbeck]
15:56:26 [markbirbeck]
15:56:27 [markbirbeck]
15:56:27 [markbirbeck]
15:56:29 [markbirbeck]
<rdf:Description rdf:about="">
15:56:32 [markbirbeck]
15:56:33 [markbirbeck]
15:56:36 [markbirbeck]
15:57:04 [manu]
Ivan: Strictly speaking, this is illegal...
15:57:17 [manu]
Shane: I think it's reserved, not illegal.
15:58:06 [manu]
ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142
15:58:58 [manu]
Ivan: regrets for next week
15:59:22 [Zakim]
15:59:23 [Zakim]
15:59:23 [Zakim]
15:59:23 [Zakim]
15:59:23 [Zakim]
15:59:25 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
15:59:26 [Zakim]
Attendees were McCarron, manu, Ivan, markbirbeck, Ben_Adida
15:59:45 [manu]
Ivan: I will be at ISWC - let me know if you guys have any ideas on who to talk with about RDFa.
15:59:53 [manu]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate manu
16:00:01 [manu]
zakim, bye
16:00:01 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rdfa
16:49:58 [manu]
rrsagent, actions
16:49:58 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'actions', manu. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:50:01 [manu]
rrsagent, actions?
16:50:01 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'actions'
16:50:12 [manu]
rrsagent, stop logging
16:50:12 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', manu. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:50:31 [manu]
rrsagent, silence
16:55:22 [manu]
Present+ Ben_Adida, Mark_Birbeck, Ivan_Herman, Shane_McCarron
16:55:30 [manu]
s/Include erratum/Include XHTML\+RDFa erratum/g
16:55:33 [manu]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:55:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate manu