14:50:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:50:11 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-irc
14:50:27 <manu> scribe: manu
14:50:31 <manu> Chair: Manu Sporny
14:50:37 <manu> Present: Manu_Sporny
14:50:43 <manu> zakim, this will be rdfa
14:50:43 <Zakim> ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:51:03 <manu> Meeting: RDF in XHTML Task Force
14:51:15 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0044.html
14:51:26 <manu> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html
14:51:59 <manu> Regrets: Steven Pemberton
14:52:08 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:52:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html manu
14:52:12 <manu> rrsagent, make log public
14:52:50 <manu> s/Regrets: Steven Pemberton/Regrets: Steven_Pemberton
14:52:53 <manu> s/Regrets: Steven Pemberton/Regrets: Steven_Pemberton/g
14:52:56 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:52:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html manu
14:56:41 <manu> Topic: Action Items
14:59:55 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:00:56 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
15:01:10 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
15:01:14 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started
15:01:21 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:01:24 <Zakim> +McCarron
15:01:33 <ShaneM> zakim, I am McCarron
15:01:44 <manu> Present+ Shane_McCarron
15:01:47 <markbirbeck> zakim, I am Spartacus
15:01:56 <Zakim> +??P12
15:01:59 <Zakim> ok, ShaneM, I now associate you with McCarron
15:01:59 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named 'Spartacus'
15:02:10 <Zakim> +??P29
15:02:12 <markbirbeck> zakim, I am ??
15:02:12 <Zakim> sorry, markbirbeck, I do not see a party named '??'
15:02:12 <manu> zakim, I am ??P12
15:02:13 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:02:13 <Zakim> +manu; got it
15:02:13 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:02:15 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:02:22 <markbirbeck> zakim, I am ??
15:02:26 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it
15:03:06 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
15:03:15 <benadida> benadida has joined #rdfa
15:05:41 <manu> ACTION: Manu change test suite to use Exclusive Canonical XMLLiteral tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action05]
15:05:43 <manu> -- continues
15:05:59 <manu> Ivan: I raised some questions on mailing list -- what's the view of future RDFa plans.
15:06:06 <manu> Ivan: What do we want to do/publish?
15:06:32 <manu> Ivan: I'd like to know the plan.
15:06:52 <manu> ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org implementation re: c14n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
15:07:15 <manu> -- continues
15:09:26 <ShaneM> harness at http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/
15:09:44 <ShaneM> oh.  no.  not that one!
15:09:44 <manu> Manu: bug with Jena, working with Andy Seaborne to figure out  what's wrong
15:09:52 <manu> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/
15:10:29 <manu> Manu: That's the new test harness with XHTML1, HTML4, HTML5
15:10:46 <manu> ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]
15:10:49 <manu> -- continues
15:10:57 <manu> ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors' guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]
15:11:15 <manu> -- continues
15:11:44 <manu> Topic: Next steps for RDFa
15:11:55 <manu> Mark: A couple of different things 
15:12:07 <manu> Mark: The basic question of prioritization... 
15:12:19 <manu> Mark: Javascript/DOM API, @profile, etc.
15:12:40 <manu> Mark: What are our motivations?
15:12:52 <manu> Mark: and where will this work be done?
15:13:19 <manu> Mark: A bit of frustration because we don't know where we're putting the work.
15:13:33 <manu> Mark: Hampering new ideas and innovation because we don't know where to put the work.
15:13:55 <manu> Mark: Could we put a couple of new things into the HTML+RDFa draft without damaging anything?
15:14:21 <manu> Mark: Should we try to address HTML+RDFa issues?
15:14:38 <ShaneM> q+ to discuss publication issues
15:14:47 <manu> ack ShaneM
15:15:06 <manu> Shane: Read through the thread - I think that there are some procedural issues...
15:15:25 <manu> Shane: From a publication perspective, we wanted existing REC to remain relevant as a base spec.
15:15:45 <manu> Shane: Possible to introduce things in HTML+RDFa level, we don't want XHTML+RDFa to get out of step with HTML version
15:15:58 <manu> Shane: Don't know if we can do radical changes to CURIE processing.
15:16:21 <manu> Ivan: Procedural issues - putting on my admin hat...
15:16:37 <manu> Ivan: WG charter stops at end of the year, for the time being we don't know what would replace it.
15:16:46 <manu> Ivan: We have discussed an IG or a WG for RDFa.
15:17:07 <manu> Ivan: There are two major stumbling blocks to address with RDFa WG..
15:17:34 <manu> Ivan: If the work this group would do is exclusively HTML... then there will be push-back to make this group as purely under HTML WG.
15:18:30 <manu> Ivan: Other stumbling block is that this TF is mostly Invited Experts... will be difficult for W3C management to accept a WG filled with mostly Invited Experts.
15:18:52 <manu> Ivan: We could issue edited REC of RDFa - where we try to fold in all the errata.
15:19:18 <manu> Ivan: I don't think that this group will have the time to do much more than that.
15:19:30 <manu> Ben: Who should we submit this feedback to?
15:20:14 <manu> Ben: A bit concerned about the difficulty in creating a WG for technology that has been clearly adopted by Google/Yahoo.
15:20:28 <manu> Ben: How do we ensure that W3C is reflecting actual usage.
15:20:53 <manu> Ivan: You should raise that point as an AC rep.
15:21:18 <manu> Ivan: We should try to see which W3C members would be interested in joining the RDFa WG.
15:21:55 <manu> Ivan: Yahoo! is back as a member now, so I would hope that Peter might want to join.
15:22:15 <manu> Ivan: Who else?
15:22:50 <manu> Ivan: I won't be at TPAC, unfortunately - Thomas Roessler will be there, so he will talk with Raman and Peter, maybe.
15:23:07 <manu> Ivan: If we have enough momentum, we can come up with a charter for an RDFa WG.
15:24:43 <manu> Manu: Why don't we commit to going forward with an RDFa WG.
15:25:13 <manu> Ivan: We need at least one more member to be interested.
15:25:53 <manu> Ivan: We have to be careful in the charter - we are not doing this as HTML - work items must be included that are not HTML-specific.
15:26:06 <manu> Ivan: The RDFa attribute set can be used in non-HTML/XML dialects as well.
15:26:16 <manu> Ivan: Perhaps, RDFa Core 1.1 should be a charter item.
15:27:39 <manu> ACTION: Ben, Ivan and Manu to draft an RDFa WG and move that initiative forward.
15:27:56 <manu> ACTION: Ivan to talk with Peter Mika at ISWC2009 about RDFa WG.
15:28:14 <manu> ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter.
15:28:47 <manu> ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG.
15:29:04 <manu> Ivan: We should mark up the RDFa WG charter in HTML
15:30:05 <manu> Mark: quick suggestions for new members of RDFa WG - Linked Data community
15:30:12 <manu> Mark: OpenLink - Virtuoso
15:31:06 <manu> Mark: Gov2 stuff - maybe they would be interested in joining.
15:32:07 <manu> Topic: Discuss and approve Shane's errata text
15:32:20 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0010.html
15:33:13 <ivan> q+
15:34:23 <manu> Manu: Any objections to approving this erratum?
15:35:01 <manu> Ivan: What does the current XHTML spec say about attribute values?
15:35:11 <manu> Shane: It defers to HTM4, which is case insensitive.
15:35:15 <manu> Ivan: Ah, yes.
15:35:33 <manu> Manu: Any objections?
15:35:35 <manu> Ivan: +1
15:35:44 <ShaneM> +1
15:35:46 <markbirbeck> +1
15:35:47 <benadida> +1
15:36:18 <manu> RESOLUTION: Include erratum on case insensitivity for attribute values: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Oct/0010.html
15:37:28 <manu> Topic: Test Cases
15:37:30 <manu> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/
15:38:49 <manu> Manu: TC 134
15:39:21 <manu> Manu: This is affected by the resolution we just made... upper-case attribute values for things like rel="NEXT" should generate a triple.
15:39:25 <manu> Ivan: Looks okay to me
15:39:30 <manu> Manu: +1
15:39:57 <manu> Shane: +1
15:40:03 <benadida> +1
15:40:24 <manu> Mark: We might want to change the URL to something that makes more sense like, http://example.org/next
15:40:40 <ShaneM> Looks good to me
15:40:47 <manu> RESOLUTION: TC 134 approved
15:42:08 <manu> Manu: Moving on to TC 140
15:43:07 <manu> Manu: Do all of us agree that this markup shouldn't generate a triple
15:43:35 <manu> Manu: This should be a negative test and should have documentation stating that it is negative.
15:48:36 <manu> Mark: Should we make this use BOUND?
15:48:40 <manu> Mark: or NOT BOUND?
15:50:25 <manu> Manu: Rather not change the way we do negative tests right now, could change it in the future.
15:50:35 <ShaneM> +1
15:50:35 <ivan> +1
15:50:37 <manu> Manu: Any objections to passing TC 140?
15:50:40 <markbirbeck> +1
15:50:40 <manu> Manu: +1
15:50:43 <benadida> +1
15:50:50 <manu> RESOLUTION: TC 140 approved
15:51:58 <manu> Manu: TC 142
15:53:01 <manu> Shane: This is a bit pathological, but that's fine...
15:53:21 <manu> Mark: If you wanted to make statements about XML, this would be fine.
15:56:09 <manu> Mark: Can you have an element that has <xml:test>... in RDF/XML?
15:56:25 <markbirbeck> ?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
15:56:25 <markbirbeck> <rdf:RDF
15:56:26 <markbirbeck>   xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
15:56:26 <markbirbeck>   xmlns:rdfs="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"
15:56:26 <markbirbeck>   xmlns:xhv="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#"
15:56:27 <markbirbeck>   xmlns:xml="http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace"
15:56:27 <markbirbeck> >
15:56:29 <markbirbeck>   <rdf:Description rdf:about="http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/test-cases/xhtml1/0142.xhtml">
15:56:32 <markbirbeck>     <xml:test>Test</xml:test>
15:56:33 <markbirbeck>   </rdf:Description>
15:56:36 <markbirbeck> </rdf:RDF>
15:57:04 <manu> Ivan: Strictly speaking, this is illegal...
15:57:17 <manu> Shane: I think it's reserved, not illegal.
15:58:06 <manu> ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142
15:58:58 <manu> Ivan: regrets for next week
15:59:22 <Zakim> -McCarron
15:59:23 <Zakim> -markbirbeck
15:59:23 <Zakim> -manu
15:59:23 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
15:59:23 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:59:25 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended
15:59:26 <Zakim> Attendees were McCarron, manu, Ivan, markbirbeck, Ben_Adida
15:59:45 <manu> Ivan: I will be at ISWC - let me know if you guys have any ideas on who to talk with about RDFa.
15:59:53 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html manu
16:00:01 <manu> zakim, bye
16:00:01 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdfa
16:49:58 <manu> rrsagent, actions
16:49:58 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'actions', manu.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:50:01 <manu> rrsagent, actions?
16:50:01 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'actions'
16:50:12 <manu> rrsagent, stop logging
16:50:12 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', manu.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:50:31 <manu> rrsagent, silence
16:55:22 <manu> Present+ Ben_Adida, Mark_Birbeck, Ivan_Herman, Shane_McCarron
16:55:30 <manu> s/Include erratum/Include XHTML\+RDFa erratum/g
16:55:33 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:55:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html manu