18:52:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #core
18:52:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-core-irc
18:52:46 <aphillip> zakim, this will be I18N
18:52:46 <Zakim> ok, aphillip; I see I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
18:52:53 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
18:53:02 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization Teleconference
18:53:08 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
18:53:14 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
18:53:18 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
18:53:35 <aphillip> Meeting: W3C Internationalization Core WG Teleconference
18:53:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-core-minutes.html aphillip
18:55:37 <David> David has joined #core
18:58:47 <David> Hello Addison
18:59:56 <aphillip> hello david
19:00:31 <David> How did the unicode conf go?
19:00:41 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM has now started
19:00:45 <r12a> r12a has joined #core
19:00:47 <Zakim> + +1.408.790.aaaa
19:01:15 <Zakim> +??P7
19:03:51 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
19:03:51 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
19:03:53 <Zakim> +Richard
19:06:51 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda
19:07:13 <aphillip> note from michael kay
19:07:47 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
19:08:36 <aphillip> addison: working on the timing table
19:08:40 <aphillip> addison: ping martin about iri wg activity 
19:09:41 <aphillip> addison: set up an introductory call or meeting with DOM Events folks to discuss 
19:09:46 <aphillip> probably our next call
19:09:54 <aphillip> richard: ask Ian about errata correction of UTR#20 
19:10:02 <aphillip> done...
19:10:19 <David> http://www.w3.org/TR/unicode-xml/#Charlist
19:10:30 <dchiba> dchiba has joined #core
19:11:04 <aphillip> ACTION: richard: ask Ian about errata correction of UTR#20 http://www.w3.org/TR/unicode-xml/#Charlist
19:11:19 <Zakim> + +1.925.371.aabb
19:11:19 <aphillip> all: look at XForms 1.1 PR for internationalization issues, especially "input mode" at the back 
19:11:45 <aphillip> now moot
19:11:52 <aphillip> since it is now a REC
19:12:12 <aphillip> addison: reply to Hixie in support of text at end of thread 
19:12:27 <aphillip> all: review UAX#46 draft for review in two weeks 
19:12:38 <aphillip> richard: publish language tag articles for wide review 
19:12:43 <aphillip> done
19:12:50 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
19:13:13 <aphillip> richard: new web fonts charter
19:13:22 <aphillip> ... is this MO?
19:14:43 <aphillip> richard: xforms 1.1 is a REC
19:14:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-core-minutes.html aphillip
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19:17:47 <Zakim> +Shepazu
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19:18:52 <aphillip> Topic: DOM KeyEvents
19:18:55 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2009OctDec/0067.html
19:20:00 <aphillip> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html
19:20:16 <shepazu> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html#keyset
19:25:02 <aphillip> doug: how do i get the character I want when I press a (sequence) of buttons?
19:25:50 <aphillip> ... such as dead keys (Option-U + o == ö
19:28:05 <aphillip> ... or perhaps Shift-Q => Q
19:28:23 <aphillip> ... or third case, IME
19:28:48 <aphillip> ... (transformation, choose from lists and such)
19:28:56 <aphillip> doug: problem #2
19:29:15 <aphillip> ... you write a game, for example, and want 'a', 's','d', 'w' be arrow keys
19:29:24 <aphillip> ... or you want Ctrl-C to be your copy function
19:29:33 <aphillip> ... even if 'c' is remapped to 'h'
19:29:43 <aphillip> ... the physical layout is the same
19:29:53 <aphillip> ... this is not in the scope of dom3 events
19:30:32 <aphillip> addison: so problem 2 is detecting a physical key press on physical keyboard
19:31:24 <aphillip> richard: so access keys are not included?
19:31:28 <aphillip> doug: never been part of it
19:32:58 <aphillip> ... but for example XHTML2 Access... for accesskey
19:33:08 <aphillip> ... handwaves over the problem of keys
19:33:45 <aphillip> ... rewrote that document and hoping to get published in terms of key identifiers
19:34:21 <aphillip> doug: solved problem #1
19:34:30 <aphillip> ... broke it down 
19:34:36 <aphillip> ... want single token to id each key
19:34:50 <aphillip> ... don't believe that a single id can be had for each key
19:35:07 <aphillip> ... key id mechanism can produce similar results across operating systems
19:36:13 <aphillip> doug: if i have a US-QWERTY keyboard...
19:36:19 <aphillip> .. and press 'q'
19:36:25 <aphillip> ... when I get 'Q'
19:36:38 <aphillip> ... as keycode
19:37:54 <aphillip> doug: further level of abstraction from java/.net
19:38:01 <aphillip> ... if the key produces a character
19:38:07 <aphillip> ... then that's key id
19:39:16 <aphillip> ... some keys can have more than one identifier
19:42:05 <aphillip> doug: text input event might give you same value as key id
19:42:13 <aphillip> ... if you paste in text or are using IME
19:42:19 <aphillip> ... those come as text input events
19:43:05 <aphillip> doug: also something new...
19:43:10 <aphillip> ... composition events
19:43:17 <aphillip> ... start, stop, end
19:43:39 <aphillip> s/stop/update/
19:44:23 <aphillip> ... implemented in FF
19:44:44 <aphillip> ... to enable on-the-spot editing
19:50:02 <aphillip> richard: once you get key id then you do someting with it
19:50:16 <aphillip> ... so that's where an access key or accelerator might come in
19:50:23 <aphillip> ... so when typing in japanese
19:50:42 <aphillip> ... the ime captures qwerty keys and converts to hiragana for example
19:50:57 <aphillip> ... but when you have an accelerator key, like, say 'k'
19:51:09 <aphillip> ... you don't want to interpret as hiragana first
19:53:35 <r12a> http://rishida.net/utils/keyevents/
19:53:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-core-minutes.html aphillip
19:56:18 <aphillip> doug: some things to watch out for
19:58:07 <aphillip> ... list of key ids
19:58:12 <aphillip> ... will change in next draft
19:58:18 <aphillip> ... some have one value, some have 2, or 3
19:58:22 <aphillip> ... some different colors
19:58:32 <aphillip> ... for whatever reason, syntax is U+####
19:58:39 <aphillip> (U+20AC"
19:58:47 <r12a> 'j'
19:58:47 <r12a> 'U+006A'
19:58:47 <r12a>     The Latin Miniscule Letter j key.
19:59:12 <aphillip> doug: problem I wish to solve
19:59:20 <aphillip> ... see if character typed was in a certain range
19:59:27 <aphillip> ... meaning block, script, etc.
19:59:47 <aphillip> ... such as \p{Telegu}
20:00:00 <aphillip> s/Telegu/Greek/
20:00:17 <aphillip> ... want to say regex "is this in a range I want"
20:00:50 <aphillip> ... rather than U+
20:01:05 <aphillip> addison: problem supplementary
20:01:05 <shepazu> \u006A
20:01:33 <aphillip> U+10000
20:01:56 <aphillip> \ud800\udc00
20:01:57 <r12a> http://rishida.net/tools/conversion/
20:03:36 <r12a> \U00010398
20:04:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-core-minutes.html aphillip
20:04:33 <aphillip> doug: added util method to DOM3 events
20:04:39 <aphillip> ... converts to some format
20:05:20 <aphillip> ... entity, name, or U+ representation, or a character
20:05:33 <aphillip> ... for some characters, for example 'j'
20:05:48 <aphillip> ... or its Unicode code point string
20:06:40 <r12a> j   U+006A:   LATIN SMALL LETTER J
20:06:41 <aphillip> addison: use Unicode names for characters
20:07:26 <aphillip> doug: so some people "hey, do we need conversion"?
20:07:53 <aphillip> ... propose instead of U+
20:07:57 <aphillip> ... use \u string
20:08:34 <aphillip> supplementary planes
20:10:22 <aphillip> addison: the characters on those planes are real and keyable
20:10:43 <aphillip> ... example: emoji
20:11:02 <aphillip> ... or Chinese characters on plane 2
20:11:24 <aphillip> doug: we need to hear this feedback
20:11:30 <aphillip> ... need even one specific example
20:11:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-core-minutes.html aphillip
20:12:48 <aphillip> doug: please send in a comment saying "this is a real world use case"
20:13:00 <aphillip> ... will point to thread
20:13:11 <aphillip> doug: is there utility in tranformational utility
20:13:55 <aphillip> addison: could see use for normalizer of char names
20:13:58 <aphillip> ... and key ids
20:14:49 <aphillip> doug: so now: key ids can be 'j' or 'U+006A'
20:14:58 <aphillip> ... but plan to collapse to '\u006a'
20:15:03 <r12a> 𐎄
20:15:20 <r12a> U+10384
20:15:21 <aphillip> (see cuneiform character)
20:15:29 <r12a> \uD800\uDF84
20:16:34 <r12a> \U00010384
20:17:02 <aphillip> C version has fixed length
20:17:08 <r12a> &#x10384;
20:17:23 <aphillip> vs. &#x6a;
20:20:39 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
20:20:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see aphillip, David, Richard, +1.925.371.aabb, Shepazu
20:20:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see dchiba, shepazu, r12a, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, aphillip
20:21:02 <r12a> zakim, +1.9 is Dan
20:21:02 <Zakim> +Dan; got it
20:21:26 <r12a> shepazu requests:
20:21:50 <r12a> explain why it would be better not to use the javascript escapes for supplementary characters
20:22:01 <aphillip> \u{10384}
20:22:06 <aphillip> \u{10384 6a}
20:23:14 <aphillip> doug: make blog post or summary or something to point to
20:23:49 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod/#sec-Escaping
20:25:00 <aphillip> doug: another spec, WebIDL
20:25:15 <aphillip> ... TC39 at ECMA
20:25:39 <aphillip> ... lot of Ecmascript folks looking at deliverables
20:25:43 <aphillip> ... so maybe fix JS
20:26:19 <aphillip> ... possible that if we prosecute our case correctly, might get JS unified with other escape syntaxes
20:27:25 <aphillip> doug: so... please provide an explicit comment about supplementary support
20:27:43 <aphillip> ... and also discuss escapes
20:31:01 <Zakim> -David
20:31:53 <aphillip> doug: also: please put energy into reviewing this spec please
20:32:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-core-minutes.html aphillip
20:34:22 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
20:34:31 <Zakim> -Shepazu
20:35:56 <Zakim> -aphillip
20:35:57 <Zakim> -Richard
20:36:01 <Zakim> -Dan
20:36:02 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()3:00PM has ended
20:36:03 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.790.aaaa, aphillip, David, Richard, +1.925.371.aabb, Shepazu, Dan
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20:39:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-core-minutes.html aphillip
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