IRC log of wam on 2009-10-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:00:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wam
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-wam-irc
13:00:41 [ArtB]
ScribeNick: ArtB
13:00:44 [ArtB]
Scribe: Art
13:00:46 [ArtB]
Chair: Art
13:00:52 [ArtB]
Meeting: Widgets Voice Conf
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Date: 15 October 2009
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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0172.html
13:01:32 [ArtB]
Regrets: Frederick, Josh
13:01:40 [Zakim]
+ +49.208.4.aaaa
13:01:53 [ArtB]
zakim, aaaa is Marcin
13:01:56 [Zakim]
+arve_
13:01:57 [Zakim]
+Marcin; got it
13:01:59 [marcin]
Present+ Marcin_Hanclik
13:02:02 [arve]
Zakim, who is here
13:02:07 [Marcos]
+marcos
13:02:24 [Zakim]
arve, you need to end that query with '?'
13:02:28 [arve]
Zakim, who is here?
13:02:28 [ArtB]
Present: Art, Marcin, Arve, Marcos
13:02:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Art_Barstow, Marcin, arve_
13:02:42 [arve]
marcos is physically present
13:02:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, marcin, MikeSmith, Zakim, arve, darobin, ArtB, Benoit, Marcos, tlr, anne2, shepazu, trackbot
13:02:52 [arve]
zakim, arve_ is marcos/arve
13:02:59 [Zakim]
+marcos/arve; got it
13:04:08 [ArtB]
Topic: Announcements
13:04:20 [ArtB]
AB: #1 reminder October 27 is the deadline to submit publication requests before the TPAC publication moratorium begins.
13:04:38 [ArtB]
AB: #2 yesterday I created a wiki to track implementations of the widgets specs ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/WidgetImplementation ). Everyone in the WG is welcome to edit and help maintain this document.
13:05:15 [ArtB]
AB: any other announcements?
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[ None ]
13:05:35 [Marcos]
http://samaxes.svn.beanstalkapp.com/widgets_compatibility_matrix/trunk/index.html
13:06:29 [ArtB]
MC: this work by Samuel and Daniel is part of our annoucements
13:06:37 [ArtB]
... they would like to join WebApps as Invited Experts
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... they are conducting some widget compatibility work
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... have an intern that run the tests
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... I think this data will be useful
13:07:21 [ArtB]
Arve: what does Present Techn do?
13:07:31 [ArtB]
MC: they are based in Portugal; do a lot of stuff
13:07:41 [ArtB]
... one thing is building mobile web sites
13:08:05 [ArtB]
... they want to understand who supports the W3C's widgets specs
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... they want to know exactly which features are implemented by the various vendors
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... they will help me with testing
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... but they will also do their own independent impl
13:09:15 [ArtB]
ACTION: barstow follow-up with Team about how to get Present Technologies participating in WebApps' Widgets work
13:09:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-419 - Follow-up with Team about how to get Present Technologies participating in WebApps' Widgets work [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-10-22].
13:09:23 [Marcos]
s/but they will also do their own independent impl/but they will NOT do their own independent impl
13:09:42 [ArtB]
AB: has this work been announced on the Public mail list?
13:09:45 [ArtB]
MC: no, not yet
13:09:51 [ArtB]
... I need to do some work first
13:10:04 [ArtB]
... I am haing massive probs with CVS on W3C server
13:10:12 [ArtB]
s/haing/having/
13:10:52 [ArtB]
Topic: Review and tweak agenda
13:10:59 [ArtB]
AB: I submitted a draft agenda on Oct 14 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0172.html ). Any change requests?
13:11:16 [ArtB]
[ None ]
13:11:24 [ArtB]
Topic: P&C spec: Issue #93 - deprecated, grandfathered, and redundant tags should be skipped
13:11:32 [ArtB]
AB: last week Marcos agreed to pursue Issue #93 ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/93 ); see also Action #413 ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/actions/413 ). Marcos, what's the status? This should be closed before we publish the next LCWD.
13:12:08 [ArtB]
MC: this has been implemented in the TSE
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... I'm not entirely comfortable with the text in the spec
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... should ignore propr tags
13:13:06 [ArtB]
AB: could you cite the text in a public mail list?
13:13:07 [ArtB]
MC: yes
13:13:19 [ArtB]
AB: then we can presumably come to consensus on the text
13:13:32 [ArtB]
MC: I'll do that today
13:13:44 [ArtB]
AB: anything else on Issue #93 for today?
13:14:01 [ArtB]
AB: let's err on the side of caution here
13:14:07 [Marcos]
the text is question is: "If this range begins with the subtag "i", "x", or the range is marked as "deprecated" in the IANA Language Subtag Registry, skip all the steps in this algorithm below, and move onto the next range. "
13:14:29 [ArtB]
AB: let's continue on the mail list
13:15:06 [ArtB]
MC: definitely check the TSE version
13:15:15 [ArtB]
Topic: P&C spec: ABNF changes for Valid Zip Relative Path
13:15:26 [ArtB]
AB: earlier this week Marcos proposed a revised ABNF for a valid Zip Relative Path ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0149.html ). What is the problem that requires this bug fix?
13:16:12 [ArtB]
MC: when paths are checked, the CR's BNF wasn't quite correct for lang tags
13:16:23 [ArtB]
AB: has anyone reviewed the changes?
13:16:51 [ArtB]
MH: I will review it
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... by tomorrow at the latest
13:17:06 [ArtB]
MC: I ran a bunch of tests
13:17:53 [ArtB]
AB: where is the lang-range rule copied from?
13:18:10 [ArtB]
MC: it is modified because we only support lower case
13:18:26 [Benoit_]
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13:18:27 [ArtB]
... CP437 allows upper case and we don't want that
13:18:42 [ArtB]
AB: "*-c*" is valid?
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MC: yes, that is valid
13:19:20 [ArtB]
AB: wanted to know if you were codifying a registry?
13:19:31 [Zakim]
+hhalpin
13:19:48 [darobin]
Zakim, hhalpin is me
13:19:48 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
13:20:27 [ArtB]
MC: the registry is constantly changing
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AB: these changes will eliminate some refs?
13:21:10 [ArtB]
MC: yes; additionally the prose and BNF match whereas in the CR they were not in sync
13:21:12 [marcin]
q+
13:21:26 [ArtB]
AB: can anyone else commit to a review?
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[ None ]
13:21:43 [ArtB]
AB: I did a quick review and didn't notice any issues
13:22:13 [ArtB]
MH: in case #4, what is "ext"?
13:22:27 [ArtB]
MC: the prose clarifies this
13:22:37 [ArtB]
... I did some tests on MacOS and Windows
13:23:04 [ArtB]
... but if have ".filename", need prose to handle that case
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... gets too messy to cover that case with BNF
13:23:57 [ArtB]
MH: is ".something.ext" a file or an extension?
13:23:59 [Marcos]
something.x
13:24:02 [ArtB]
... that is the main problem
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MH: the BNF I created addressed that case
13:24:20 [Marcos]
".something.ext" = extension
13:24:27 [ArtB]
Present+ Robin
13:24:40 [Marcos]
"something." is file name
13:24:49 [Marcos]
".something" is file name
13:25:11 [marcin]
filename.something.ext : what is extension here?
13:25:36 [ArtB]
MC: "ext" is the extension in that case MH
13:25:48 [ArtB]
... please read the prose as well as the new BNF
13:25:59 [ArtB]
MH: the ABNF is ambiguous
13:26:06 [ArtB]
... can't write a parser
13:26:20 [ArtB]
... only the "." is a problem
13:26:38 [ArtB]
MC: want to leave the BNF as is and clarify in prose the one case
13:27:01 [ArtB]
AB: is the proposal already in the TSE?
13:27:06 [ArtB]
MC: yes, that's correct
13:27:20 [Marcos]
9.1.10 Rule for Identifying the Media Type of a File
13:27:32 [ArtB]
AB: so the task then is to review this new section in the TSE version - DO NOT USE THE CR!
13:28:06 [ArtB]
AB: anything else on this topic for today?
13:28:09 [ArtB]
[ None ]
13:28:21 [ArtB]
Topic: P&C spec: what's blocking LC#3 publication?
13:28:30 [ArtB]
AB: it would be good to publish LC#3 before the TPAC publication moratorium.
13:29:07 [ArtB]
... besides Issue #93 and BNF, anthing else?
13:29:14 [ArtB]
MC: yes, I found a couple of bugs
13:29:25 [ArtB]
... Rule for finding a file within a widget
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... but I fixed that
13:29:36 [ArtB]
... the prose had a bug
13:30:07 [ArtB]
AB: that is an important part of the proc model
13:30:07 [Marcos]
9.1.3 Rule for Finding a File Within a Widget Package
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is buggy
13:30:19 [ArtB]
... would you please send an email that summarizes the bug and the fix?
13:30:22 [ArtB]
MC: yes
13:30:54 [ArtB]
MC: I am feeling quite comfortable about republishing
13:31:38 [ArtB]
AB: what about the "Fail encrypted archive" thread?
13:32:08 [ArtB]
... my gut feel is that we should just leave the text as is given how late in the process we are
13:32:25 [ArtB]
AB: what do people think about leaviing it as is?
13:32:33 [ArtB]
RB: I can live with either option
13:32:52 [ArtB]
MH: I think this is a big topic
13:33:09 [ArtB]
... If we want to go quickly, we should leave it as is
13:33:18 [ArtB]
MC: I can live with leaving it as is
13:33:52 [ArtB]
AB: I propose we record an agreement to leave the spec as is re encryption fail
13:33:57 [ArtB]
AB: any objections?
13:33:59 [ArtB]
[ None ]
13:34:12 [ArtB]
RESOLUTION: leave the widget encryption fail text as is
13:34:39 [ArtB]
AB: when do expect it to be ready to publish?
13:34:56 [ArtB]
MC: as soon as MH completes his review of the BNF, it will be ready
13:36:21 [Zakim]
+??P4
13:36:29 [ArtB]
Present+ David
13:37:02 [ArtB]
AB: it seems like the earliest we will be able to record agreement on publishin LC#3 is Oct 22
13:37:29 [ArtB]
AB: any comments on that?
13:37:52 [ArtB]
... that would mean LC#3 of the P+C will be published Oct 27
13:38:09 [ArtB]
Topic: TWI spec: Action 411 - need a definition of Widget Instance
13:38:19 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos, what is the status of Action #411 ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/actions/411 ) - "Submit a proposal for the definition of Widget Instance"?
13:38:28 [ArtB]
AB: who is willing to help ( http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/ )?
13:38:39 [ArtB]
AB: can you work with Scott Wilson on this?
13:38:49 [ArtB]
MC: yes, I can
13:39:15 [ArtB]
AB: what's the priority?
13:39:27 [ArtB]
MC: I can take on TWI tasks after P+C is done
13:40:31 [arve]
ArtB: apparently, you are making noise :D
13:40:55 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make log Public
13:40:59 [marcin]
I put myslef on mute usually
13:41:03 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
13:41:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-wam-minutes.html ArtB
13:41:10 [arve]
Zakim, mute Art_Barstow
13:41:10 [Zakim]
Art_Barstow should now be muted
13:41:12 [marcin]
ohh
13:41:26 [ArtB]
MC: I need to complete P+C tests
13:41:47 [ArtB]
... I can work with Scott
13:42:06 [ArtB]
... not sure I can meet the pub deadline of Oct 27 for the TWI spec
13:42:32 [ArtB]
MC: if Robin can help, that would be good
13:42:43 [ArtB]
RB: most of time is now dedicated to DAP
13:43:00 [ArtB]
AB: other than the Instance definition, what else needs to be done?
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13:43:08 [ArtB]
MC: I'm not sure
13:43:26 [ArtB]
AB: if there is anything that I can or others can do to help, please let us know
13:43:35 [ArtB]
MC: best thing to do is to review what's there
13:44:09 [ArtB]
... if we are going to make another LC, then I guess we don't need to work on the DoC document
13:44:12 [MoZ]
MoZ has joined #wam
13:44:40 [ArtB]
AB: the precedence is to skip the DoC doc if we know we are going to publish a new LC
13:44:53 [ArtB]
... but I agree it would be ideal to create the DoC
13:45:06 [ArtB]
AB: anything else on TWI for today?
13:45:09 [ArtB]
[ No ]
13:45:22 [ArtB]
Topic: VMMF spec: Comments from Marcin:
13:45:30 [ArtB]
AB: Marcin submitted some comments re the VMMF spec ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009OctDec/0047.html ). We won't discuss those comments here but please follow-up on the Public mail list
13:45:54 [ArtB]
AB: this is an important document
13:46:20 [ArtB]
... I wonder if BONDI has any input on the VMMF spec?
13:46:23 [ArtB]
DR: I'll check
13:46:25 [ArtB]
AB: thanks
13:46:39 [ArtB]
Topic: Continue technical discussions on WARP, URI, Updates, VM-I, etc. on public-webapps
13:46:49 [ArtB]
AB: we've skipped several specs today.
13:47:01 [ArtB]
AB: sorry to put Robin on the spot, but what's the status and plans for WARP?
13:47:22 [ArtB]
RB: I have made some changes
13:47:28 [ArtB]
... I haven't checked them in yet
13:47:36 [ArtB]
... think a new LCWD will be needed
13:47:52 [ArtB]
... two classes of comments: 1) scope; 2) what are the limits
13:48:11 [ArtB]
... need to clarify what a URI needs to do; may want to match what CORS does
13:48:36 [ArtB]
... need to reflect Marcin's and Dom's comments as well as some stuff from Marcos
13:48:54 [ArtB]
... Hopefully, will have something to review by next week
13:49:16 [ArtB]
RB: not sure about the BBC comment re local network
13:49:37 [darobin]
http://www.w3.org/mid/4AC4BA41.3070702@rd.bbc.co.uk
13:49:56 [ArtB]
RB: what is described seems useful but not sure what we should do about it
13:50:15 [ArtB]
... really want others to submit feedback for that use case
13:50:48 [ArtB]
AB: so everyone, please review this other use case and provide feedback
13:51:09 [ArtB]
AB: sorry to put Marcin on the spot, but what's the status and plans for VM-I?
13:51:22 [marcin]
Zakim, unmute me
13:51:22 [Zakim]
Marcin should no longer be muted
13:51:50 [ArtB]
MH: I have been focusing on Media Feature
13:51:57 [ArtB]
... will start on the Interfaces spec
13:52:04 [ArtB]
... there are bugs that need to be fixed
13:52:17 [ArtB]
... think MF is higher priority
13:52:29 [ArtB]
AB: any comments for Marcin?
13:52:49 [ArtB]
... I tend to agree MF is higher priority
13:52:58 [ArtB]
Topic: AOB
13:53:16 [ArtB]
AB: does any AOB for today?
13:53:18 [ArtB]
[ None ]
13:53:31 [ArtB]
AB: Meeting adjourned; next call will be Oct 22
13:53:39 [Zakim]
-drogersuk
13:53:40 [Zakim]
-Art_Barstow
13:53:44 [Zakim]
-darobin
13:53:45 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
13:53:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-wam-minutes.html ArtB
13:53:45 [Zakim]
-Marcin
13:56:06 [Marcos]
A crap, a big issue we still have is to do with the MIME reg
13:56:15 [Marcos]
I totally forgot
13:56:23 [Marcos]
and just saw the big red block
13:56:39 [Marcos]
That's our little elephant :)
14:03:59 [ArtB]
zakim, bye
14:03:59 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Art_Barstow, +49.208.4.aaaa, Marcin, marcos/arve, darobin, drogersuk
14:03:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wam
14:04:05 [ArtB]
rrsagent, bye
14:04:05 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-wam-actions.rdf :
14:04:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: barstow follow-up with Team about how to get Present Technologies participating in WebApps' Widgets work [1]
14:04:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-wam-irc#T13-09-15