IRC log of ua on 2009-10-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:53:24 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #ua

16:53:24 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-irc

16:53:26 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

16:53:26 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #ua

16:53:28 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG

16:53:28 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 7 minutes

16:53:29 [trackbot]

Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

16:53:29 [trackbot]

Date: 15 October 2009

16:53:40 [sharper]

chair: Ford_Kelly

16:54:30 [sharper]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2009OctDec/0015.html

16:54:30 [sharper]

scribe: Harper_Simon

16:54:30 [sharper]

ScribeNick: sharper

16:55:07 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started

16:55:08 [sharper]

Agenda+ Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?

16:55:08 [sharper]

Agenda+ Continue meeting survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090930/

16:55:08 [sharper]

Agenda+ Face to face – sign up and book hotel or confirm telephone partisipation - http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/

16:55:08 [sharper]

Agenda+ Think about techniques in preparation for F2F.

16:55:09 [sharper]

Agenda+ Talk about Guideline 4.9 Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility.

16:55:09 [sharper]

Agenda+ review any new proposals sent to list

16:55:14 [Zakim]

+[Microsoft]

16:55:41 [sharper]

meeting: User Agent Working Group Telecon - 15 October 2009

16:55:52 [sharper]

zakim, save agenda

16:55:58 [Zakim]

ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-agenda.rdf

16:56:06 [sharper]

rrsagent, make logs public

16:56:15 [sharper]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:56:15 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-minutes.html sharper

16:56:29 [sharper]

zakim, take up item 1

16:56:29 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?" taken up [from sharper]

16:56:34 [kford]

kford has joined #ua

16:57:31 [kford]

zakim, agenda?

16:57:31 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:

16:57:32 [Zakim]

1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? [from sharper]

16:57:33 [jeanne]

jeanne has joined #ua

16:57:35 [Zakim]

2. Continue meeting survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090930/ [from sharper]

16:57:37 [Zakim]

3. Face to face – sign up and book hotel or confirm telephone partisipation - http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/ [from sharper]

16:57:41 [Zakim]

4. Think about techniques in preparation for F2F. [from sharper]

16:57:43 [Zakim]

5. Talk about Guideline 4.9 Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility. [from sharper]

16:57:45 [Zakim]

6. review any new proposals sent to list [from sharper]

16:57:50 [sharper]

Scribe schedule and scribing help: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/scribing.html

16:57:50 [sharper]

Attendance survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090922/

16:57:50 [sharper]

Open Action Items: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open

16:57:50 [sharper]

Open Issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open

16:57:50 [sharper]

Current editors draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/ED-UAAG20-20090722/

16:58:13 [sharper]

present: Harper_Simon_(SH-sharper), Spellman_Jeanne_(JS-jeanne), Ford_Kelly_(KF-KFord)

16:58:41 [sharper]

regrets: Allan_James_(JA-AllanJ), Richards_Jan_(JR)

16:58:43 [Greg]

Greg has joined #ua

16:58:57 [sharper]

present+ Lowney_Greg_(GL-Greg)

16:59:09 [sharper]

zakim, code?

16:59:09 [Zakim]

the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper

17:00:13 [Zakim]

+ +1.425.895.aaaa

17:00:18 [Zakim]

+??P4

17:00:20 [sharper]

zakim, ??P4 is sharper

17:00:20 [Zakim]

+sharper; got it

17:00:55 [Zakim]

+Jeanne

17:01:08 [sharper]

zakim, ??+1.425.895.aaaa is Greg

17:01:08 [Zakim]

sorry, sharper, I do not recognize a party named '??+1.425.895.aaaa'

17:01:33 [sharper]

zakim, ??1.425.895.aaaa is Greg

17:01:33 [Zakim]

sorry, sharper, I do not recognize a party named '??1.425.895.aaaa'

17:01:36 [Zakim]

+??P9

17:01:47 [jeanne]

zakim, aaaa is really Greg

17:01:47 [Zakim]

+Greg; got it

17:01:47 [sharper]

zakim, +1.425.895.aaaa is Greg

17:01:48 [Zakim]

sorry, sharper, I do not recognize a party named '+1.425.895.aaaa'

17:01:57 [sharper]

zakim, who is making noise?

17:02:07 [Zakim]

sharper, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeanne (5%)

17:02:13 [kford]

Something sounds like a wind tunnel gone mad!

17:03:15 [sharper]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:03:15 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-minutes.html sharper

17:04:18 [kford]

zakim, agenda?

17:04:18 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:

17:04:19 [Zakim]

1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? [from sharper]

17:04:22 [Zakim]

2. Continue meeting survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090930/ [from sharper]

17:04:24 [Zakim]

3. Face to face – sign up and book hotel or confirm telephone partisipation - http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/ [from sharper]

17:04:27 [Zakim]

4. Think about techniques in preparation for F2F. [from sharper]

17:04:28 [Zakim]

5. Talk about Guideline 4.9 Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility. [from sharper]

17:04:31 [Zakim]

6. review any new proposals sent to list [from sharper]

17:04:39 [Zakim]

+Joseph_Scheuhammer

17:05:01 [sharper]

present+ Swan_Henny_(HS-Henny)

17:05:15 [sharper]

present+ Hakkinen_Mark_(MH-mth)

17:05:26 [KimPatch]

KimPatch has joined #ua

17:05:33 [sharper]

zakim, +Joseph_Scheuhammer is mth

17:05:33 [Zakim]

sorry, sharper, I do not recognize a party named '+Joseph_Scheuhammer'

17:05:45 [sharper]

zakim, Joseph_Scheuhammer is mth

17:05:45 [Zakim]

+mth; got it

17:06:02 [sharper]

present+ Patch_Kim_(KP-KimPatch)

17:06:48 [Zakim]

+ +1.617.325.aabb

17:07:30 [sharper]

KF: No logistical stuff to add

17:07:33 [sharper]

zakim, close item 1

17:07:33 [Zakim]

agendum 1, Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?, closed

17:07:34 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

17:07:35 [Zakim]

2. Continue meeting survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090930/ [from sharper]

17:07:41 [sharper]

zakim, next item

17:07:41 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Continue meeting survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090930/" taken up [from sharper]

17:09:02 [sharper]

topic: 4.9.6 Slow Multimedia http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090930/results#xq4

17:09:38 [sharper]

3 accepts / 1 change

17:10:05 [sharper]

GL It should not be if a __ track "is present" but if a ____ track "is being presented", as these restrictions should not apply if a track is present but disabled by a user option (e.g. audio muted, or the user chooses to turn off one or more tracks).

17:10:05 [sharper]

•Just out of curiosity, what behavior is expected when audio and video are not synchronized?

17:10:38 [sharper]

KF: Greg's Changes OK?

17:10:55 [sharper]

JR: Wording tweak:

17:10:56 [sharper]

as long as they are played at 75% of the original speed or higher.

17:10:56 [sharper]

=> down to 75% of the original speed.

17:10:56 [sharper]

WCAG,ATAG-style would put "; and" on each item for clarity

17:11:12 [sharper]

KF: What about Jan's Comments?

17:12:40 [sharper]

ALL: discussion re Jan's wording - clarity only.

17:12:57 [sharper]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:12:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-minutes.html sharper

17:14:27 [sharper]

KP: lets spell it all out using explicit from and to's

17:15:53 [Greg]

"when played at 75-100% of the original speed"

17:17:04 [Greg]

"when audio and video tracks are expected to be synchronized, synchronization is maintained when played at 75% through 100% of the original speed."?

17:18:12 [Greg]

"when audio and video tracks are expected to be synchronized, synchronization is maintained as long as they are played between 75% and 100% of the original speed."

17:19:07 [Greg]

"if a visual track is being presented, provide at least one setting between 40% and 60% of the original speed."

17:19:27 [Greg]

"f only an audio track is being presented, provide at least one setting between 75% and 80% of the original speed."

17:19:34 [Greg]

"if only an audio track is being presented, provide at least one setting between 75% and 80% of the original speed."

17:20:42 [sharper]

4.9.6 Slow Multimedia: The user can slow the presentation rate of recognized prerecorded audio and animation content, such that all of the following are true (Level A):
* if only an audio track is being presented, provide at least one setting between 75% and 80% of the original speed.
* if only a visual track is being presented, provide at least one setting between 40% and 60% of the original speed.
* when audio and video tracks are expected to be

17:20:42 [sharper]

synchronized, synchronization is maintained as long as they are played between 75% and 100% of the original speed.

17:21:09 [Greg]

Here's the complete revision:

17:21:15 [Greg]

4.9.6 Slow Multimedia: The user can slow the presentation rate of recognized prerecorded audio and animation content, such that all of the following are true (Level A):

17:21:16 [Greg]

* if only an audio track is being presented, provide at least one setting between 75% and 80% of the original speed.

17:21:18 [Greg]

* if a visual track is being presented, provide at least one setting between 40% and 60% of the original speed.

17:21:19 [Greg]

* when audio and video tracks are expected to be synchronized, synchronization is maintained as long as they are played between 75% and 100% of the original speed.

17:21:31 [mth]

mth has joined #ua

17:22:14 [sharper]

RESOLVED: 4.9.6 Slow Multimedia: The user can slow the presentation rate of recognized prerecorded audio and animation content, such that all of the following are true (Level A): * if only an audio track is being presented, provide at least one setting between 75% and 80% of the original speed. * if a visual track is being presented, provide at least one setting between 40% and 60% of the original speed. * when audio and video tracks are expected to be synchron

17:22:14 [sharper]

synchronization is maintained as long as they are played between 75% and 100% of the original speed.

17:22:22 [jeanne]

action: JS to update 4.6 with the text above.

17:22:22 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-236 - Update 4.6 with the text above. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-10-22].

17:22:37 [jeanne]

Resolution: Accept the recommended changes for 4.6

17:22:59 [sharper]

item: 4.9.X Increase Multimedia http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090930/results#xq5

17:23:38 [sharper]

Results: 2 accept / 1 changes / 1 more discussion

17:30:02 [sharper]

All: General discussion regarding wording of this point

17:31:42 [sharper]

all: suggested - if only an audio track is presented, support playback speeds of between 110% and 250% of the original speed

17:32:33 [sharper]

KF: discussion as to why there is a disparity between the two guidelines for increasing and slowing multimedia

17:39:44 [jeanne]

action: JS not to make changes to 4.6 until the issue of consistency of the number ranges between the related guidelines is resolved.

17:39:44 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-237 - Not to make changes to 4.6 until the issue of consistency of the number ranges between the related guidelines is resolved. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-10-22].

17:39:50 [sharper]

ALL: After further discussion 4.9.6 is called into question (the speeds, ranges, and sync types)

17:39:51 [sharper]

RESOLVED: RESIND this resolution 4.9.6 Slow Multimedia

17:40:21 [sharper]

RESOLVED: RESIND Action 236

17:43:08 [sharper]

KF: do we need both speed up and slow down as separate points? Seems Not.

17:45:41 [sharper]

Action: mth revise guidelines 4.9.6 to reflect that multimedia playback should represent the full spectrum of playback, synchronisation, and audio characteristics

17:45:41 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - mth

17:46:16 [sharper]

Action: mhakkine revise guidelines 4.9.6 to reflect that multimedia playback should represent the full spectrum of playback, synchronisation, and audio characteristics

17:46:16 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-238 - Revise guidelines 4.9.6 to reflect that multimedia playback should represent the full spectrum of playback, synchronisation, and audio characteristics [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2009-10-22].

17:47:20 [sharper]

Resolved: with action-238 on MH

17:47:43 [sharper]

topic: 3.5.x Container overflow options. http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090930/results#xq8

17:47:54 [sharper]

rrsagent, draft minutes

17:47:54 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-minutes.html sharper

17:48:55 [sharper]

1 accept / 2 more discussion / 1 neutral

17:49:55 [sharper]

Proposed

17:49:55 [sharper]

3.5.x Container overflow options. When text resized by the user overflows the containing element the user has the option to either: (a) expand the size of the containing element to display the text or (b) to override any author setting preventing scrollbars in order to display all of the text

17:58:22 [sharper]

ALL: general discussion as to how this is implemented Greg, gives us a breakdown of this in HTML 4.01

18:04:30 [sharper]

ALL: GL: accept this as a good goal - now on to wording

18:07:37 [sharper]

'3.5.x Container overflow options.When content overflows the containing element the user has the option to either: (a) expand the size of the containing element to display the content or (b) to override any author setting preventing scrolling in order to display all of the content'

18:09:40 [Greg]

Revised draft: 3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to either: (a) expand the size of the containing element to display the content, or (b) to override any author setting that prevent scrolling, in order to make all of the content available.

18:11:25 [Greg]

Revised draft #2: 3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to either: (a) expand the size of the containing element to display the content, or (b) to enable scrolling in order to make all of the content available.

18:14:33 [Greg]

Revised draft #3: 3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to override author settings to display the entire content by either: (a) expanding the sizes of containing elements to display their content, or (b) enable scrolling.

18:18:00 [Greg]

Revised draft 4: 3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to display the entire content by either: (a) expanding the sizes of containing elements, or (b) enable scrolling. This would override any author-specified settings.

18:18:48 [Greg]

Revised draft 5: 3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to display the entire content by either: (a) expanding the sizes of containing elements, or (b) enabling scrolling. This would override any author-specified settings.

18:19:58 [sharper]

3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to override any author-specified settings and display the entire content by either: (a) expanding the sizes of containing elements, or (b) enabling scrolling.

18:21:31 [sharper]

3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to override any author-specified settings so as to display the entire content by either: (a) expanding the sizes of containing elements, or (b) enabling scrolling.

18:23:49 [Greg]

I think we're trying to get UA to make this a global option, rather than a per-container option; do we want to make that explicit? That actually is an issue for a large number of SC in the guidelines.

18:25:04 [sharper]

Action: Jeanne on updating the draft to incorporate 3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to override any author-specified settings so as to display the entire content by either: (a) expanding the sizes of containing elements, or (b) enabling scrolling.

18:25:04 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-239 - On updating the draft to incorporate 3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to override any author-specified settings so as to display the entire content by either: (a) expanding the sizes of containing elements, or (b) enabling scrolling. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-10-22].

18:25:10 [sharper]

RESOLVED: 3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to override any author-specified settings so as to display the entire content by either: (a) expanding the sizes of containing elements, or (b) enabling scrolling.

18:25:21 [sharper]

zakim, close item

18:25:21 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'close item', sharper

18:25:29 [sharper]

zakim, close item 2

18:25:29 [Zakim]

agendum 2, Continue meeting survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20090930/, closed

18:25:31 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

18:25:33 [Zakim]

3. Face to face – sign up and book hotel or confirm telephone partisipation - http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/ [from sharper]

18:25:42 [sharper]

zakim, agenda

18:25:42 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'agenda', sharper

18:25:44 [jeanne]

action: JS to add 3.5.x with the updated text above

18:25:44 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-240 - Add 3.5.x with the updated text above [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2009-10-22].

18:25:50 [sharper]

zakim, close item?

18:25:50 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, sharper.

18:26:33 [sharper]

zakim, agenda?

18:26:33 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

18:26:35 [Zakim]

3. Face to face – sign up and book hotel or confirm telephone partisipation - http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/ [from sharper]

18:26:38 [Zakim]

4. Think about techniques in preparation for F2F. [from sharper]

18:26:39 [Zakim]

5. Talk about Guideline 4.9 Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility. [from sharper]

18:26:41 [Zakim]

6. review any new proposals sent to list [from sharper]

18:26:53 [sharper]

KF: trying to find out who will be attending

18:27:03 [sharper]

ALL: giving availability and status

18:31:47 [Zakim]

-??P9

18:31:48 [Zakim]

- +1.617.325.aabb

18:31:50 [Zakim]

-mth

18:31:52 [Zakim]

-sharper

18:31:53 [mth]

mth has left #ua

18:32:00 [sharper]

zakim, close item 3

18:32:00 [Zakim]

agendum 3, Face to face – sign up and book hotel or confirm telephone partisipation - http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/, closed

18:32:00 [sharper]

zakim, take up item 4

18:32:00 [sharper]

RESOLVED: Deferred to next weeks meeting 22 October 2009

18:32:00 [sharper]

zakim, close item 4

18:32:02 [Zakim]

I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

18:32:05 [Zakim]

4. Think about techniques in preparation for F2F. [from sharper]

18:32:07 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Think about techniques in preparation for F2F." taken up [from sharper]

18:32:09 [Zakim]

agendum 4, Think about techniques in preparation for F2F., closed

18:32:11 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

18:32:13 [Zakim]

5. Talk about Guideline 4.9 Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility. [from sharper]

18:32:16 [sharper]

zakim, take up item 5

18:32:16 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Talk about Guideline 4.9 Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility." taken up [from sharper]

18:32:16 [sharper]

RESOLVED: Deferred to next weeks meeting 22 October 2009

18:32:25 [sharper]

zakim, close item 5

18:32:25 [Zakim]

agendum 5, Talk about Guideline 4.9 Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility., closed

18:32:25 [sharper]

zakim, take up item 6

18:32:25 [sharper]

RESOLVED: Non this week.

18:32:25 [sharper]

zakim, close item 6

18:32:27 [Zakim]

I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:

18:32:28 [Zakim]

6. review any new proposals sent to list [from sharper]

18:32:29 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "review any new proposals sent to list" taken up [from sharper]

18:32:31 [Zakim]

agendum 6, review any new proposals sent to list, closed

18:32:32 [Zakim]

I see nothing remaining on the agenda

18:32:41 [sharper]

rrsagent, draft minutes

18:32:41 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-minutes.html sharper

18:33:26 [sharper]

rrsagent, draft minutes

18:33:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-minutes.html sharper

18:33:32 [sharper]

zakim, please part

18:33:32 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were [Microsoft], +1.425.895.aaaa, sharper, Jeanne, Greg, mth, +1.617.325.aabb

18:33:32 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #ua

18:33:37 [sharper]

rrsagent, draft minutes

18:33:37 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-minutes.html sharper

18:34:10 [sharper]

rrsagent, please part

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-actions.rdf :

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JS to update 4.6 with the text above. [1]

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-irc#T17-22-22

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JS not to make changes to 4.6 until the issue of consistency of the number ranges between the related guidelines is resolved. [2]

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-irc#T17-39-44

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: mth revise guidelines 4.9.6 to reflect that multimedia playback should represent the full spectrum of playback, synchronisation, and audio characteristics [3]

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-irc#T17-45-41

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: mhakkine revise guidelines 4.9.6 to reflect that multimedia playback should represent the full spectrum of playback, synchronisation, and audio characteristics [4]

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-irc#T17-46-16

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeanne on updating the draft to incorporate 3.5.x Container overflow options. When content overflows its containing element the user has the option to override any author-specified settings so as to display the entire content by either: (a) expanding the sizes of containing elements, or (b) enabling scrolling. [5]

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-irc#T18-25-04

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JS to add 3.5.x with the updated text above [6]

18:34:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-ua-irc#T18-25-44