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00:13:06 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7923] New: What about local files access? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0197.html>
00:43:12 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7924] New: xaXAafs <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0198.html>
01:13:21 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7918] prefetching: allow site to deny <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0199.html>
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05:48:32 <pimpbot> planet: If I use HTML 5's DocType what will happen? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1570418/if-i-use-html-5s-doctype-what-will-happen> 4** Questions/comments on http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html ? Ask them here: http://is.gd/4kfhx <11http://twitter.com/diveintomark/statuses/4881945363> 4** Video on the Web - Dive Into HTML5 <11http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html> 4** Damn, I wish this were simpler: http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html #h
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08:45:13 <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Fix markup error in example DOM tree. (whatwg r4143) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Oct/0064.html>
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09:15:18 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7926] New: Undefine insertion point if parser on call stack doing anything other than running script element <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0200.html>
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11:49:57 <pimpbot> planet: HTML5 Canvas FTW! <11http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/DasGtqF3A2o/html5-canvas-ftw> 4** export canvas data to json <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1571763/export-canvas-data-to-json>
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12:16:02 <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7927] New: widht/height says "map to the dimension properties" but the link goes to "maps to the pixel length property" <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Oct/0201.html>
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13:50:24 <pimpbot> planet: How can I use the HTML5 canvas element in IE? <11http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1332501/how-can-i-use-the-html5-canvas-element-in-ie>
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15:27:22 <plh> I wonder, do we have a comparison of microdata vs RDFa somewhere?
15:27:46 <mjs> like, a technical level comparison?
15:27:51 <plh> yes
15:28:03 <mjs> I think there have been comparisons in email, but we don't have that information collected in a single place
15:28:18 <mjs> also microdata has been significantly changed since the last time we had a lot of technical discussion
15:28:20 <jgraham> and blog posts
15:29:55 <jgraham> e.g (not these are all out of date wrt microdata)
15:30:01 <jgraham> *note
15:30:12 <jgraham> http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/103
15:30:13 <pimpbot> Title: What You Cant Do with HTML5 Microdata | Jeni's Musings (at www.jenitennison.com)
15:30:19 <mjs> a fresh technical-level comparison would be useful for reference
15:30:28 <jgraham> http://bnode.org/blog/2009/05/15/could-microdata-work-better-for-me-than-rdfa
15:30:29 <pimpbot> Title: Could Microdata work better for me than RDFa? - benjamin nowack's blog (at bnode.org)
15:30:43 <mjs> I'm not sure it would change anyone's mind, at least for people who already feel strongly
15:30:49 <mjs> but it might be useful for the silent majority
15:30:55 <jgraham> http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/124
15:30:56 <pimpbot> Title: HTML5/RDFa Arguments | Jeni's Musings (at www.jenitennison.com)
15:31:11 <plh> a lot of people are silent in this debate. do they actually care?
15:32:08 <jgraham> plh: Hard to tell. Maybe they just don't want to get dragged into such a polarised topic.
15:32:32 <jgraham> Maybe they have no interest in any form of tree annotation mechanism
15:32:57 <jgraham> Maybe the technologies are too complex to evaluate without a large time investment
15:34:34 <cardona507> for myself it is the later
15:35:04 <jgraham> http://blog.foolip.org/2009/08/23/microformats-vs-rdfa-vs-microdata/
15:35:05 <pimpbot> Title: Microformats vs RDFa vs Microdata « Philip Jägenstedt (at blog.foolip.org)
15:35:32 <Philip> It shouldn't really take a significant time investment for someone to consider a use case that they are interested in, and evaluate how well they can solve it with microdata and RDFa
15:36:17 <Philip> (If that does take a significant time investment, it indicates the solution is too complex and therefore fails the evaluation)
15:38:58 <mjs> Philip: I'm not sure I agree with that statement in general - it may be that the problem domain has intrinsic complexity
15:39:28 <mjs> for example, it's pretty hard to review <video>, but I would say that is due to the nature of timed media and what people want to do with it, not flaws in video element's design
15:39:55 <mjs> plh: I suspect a lot of people don't care strongly one way or the other
15:40:27 <jgraham> It's pretty hard to evaluate the details of <video> but it's not hard to evaluate it (at least somewhat) from an authouring perspective
15:41:01 <jgraham> (and many people did, noting the increased complexity caused by not having a single mandated codec)
15:41:15 <jgraham> s//baseline/
15:44:12 <plh> thanks for all the pointers. good stuff in them indeed.
15:46:41 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #html-wg
15:52:45 <kliehm> kliehm has joined #html-wg
15:55:30 <dsinger> dsinger has joined #html-wg
15:55:56 <dsinger> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:56:24 <dsinger> Zakim, this is html
15:56:54 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-wg
15:57:14 <dsinger> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:57:14 <Zakim> sorry, dsinger, I don't know what conference this is
15:57:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see dsinger, kliehm, Lachy, cardona507, myakura, taf2, plh, tlr, manu, MikeSmith, ROBOd, tH, syp, mjs, gavin, Julian, drunknbass_work, Shunsuke, krijnh, karl, gavin_,
15:57:17 <plh> you're early David
15:57:20 <Zakim> ... anne2, hober, shepazu, Hixie, pimpbot, Yudai, Dashiva, jmb, gsnedders|work, ed_work_, hsivonen, deltab, johndrinkwater, jarib, drry, jgraham, RRSAgent, inimino, CIA-1,
15:57:22 <Zakim> ... takkaria, trackbot, Philip
15:57:28 <dsinger> Zakom, this is html
15:57:28 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-wg
15:57:29 <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
15:57:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:57:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
15:57:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
15:57:35 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
15:57:35 <trackbot> Date: 15 October 2009
15:57:41 <gsnedders> gsnedders has joined #html-wg
15:57:54 <cardona507> zakim, mute carlos
15:57:54 <Zakim> sorry, cardona507, I do not know which phone connection belongs to carlos
15:57:56 <dsinger> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:57:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.408.398.aaaa, +1.831.454.aabb
15:58:02 <paulc> Mike: Can you scribe?
15:58:18 <dsinger> Zakim, aaaa is dsinger
15:58:19 <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
15:58:27 <manu> zakim, code?
15:58:27 <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), manu
15:58:31 <dsinger> Zakim, mute me
15:58:31 <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
15:58:35 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:58:40 <Travis> Travis has joined #html-wg
15:58:43 <Eliot_Graff> Eliot_Graff has joined #html-wg
15:58:51 <Zakim> + +1.715.718.aacc
15:58:53 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer
15:58:55 <adrianba> adrianba has joined #html-wg
15:58:58 <cardona507> zakim, mute carlos
15:58:58 <Zakim> sorry, cardona507, I do not know which phone connection belongs to carlos
15:59:09 <Zakim> +Plh
15:59:11 <cardona507> how do I tell zakim my phone connection?
15:59:12 <manu> zakim, I am ??aacc
15:59:12 <Zakim> sorry, manu, I do not see a party named '??aacc'
15:59:25 <Zakim> + +49.251.280.aadd
15:59:25 <rubys> rubys has joined #html-wg
15:59:25 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
15:59:26 <manu> zakim I am ??1.715.718.aacc
15:59:38 <tross> tross has joined #html-wg
15:59:38 <Eliot_Graff> Zakim, Microsoft.a is me
15:59:40 <Julian> Zakim, +49.251.280.aadd is me
15:59:41 <Zakim> +Eliot_Graff; got it
15:59:43 <Zakim> + +0131208aaee
15:59:44 <manu> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:59:45 <Zakim> +Julian; got it
15:59:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), +1.831.454.aabb, [Microsoft], +1.715.718.aacc, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Plh (muted), Julian, Eliot_Graff, +0131208aaee
15:59:49 <plh> zakim, aacc is Manu
15:59:50 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
15:59:54 <Zakim> +Manu; got it
15:59:56 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
16:00:01 <MikeSmith> paulc: would rather not scribe -- I scribed two other telcons so far today, and some phone connection flakiness to boot
16:00:04 <Zakim> +Shepazu
16:00:16 <paulc> PaulC just joined.
16:00:17 <manu> scribenick: manu
16:00:27 <gsnedders> Zakim, +0131208aaee is me
16:00:27 <Zakim> +gsnedders; got it
16:00:32 <adrianba> zakim, Microsoft.a has adrianba, travil, tross, krisk
16:00:32 <Zakim> +adrianba, travil, tross, krisk; got it
16:00:40 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
16:00:40 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:00:41 <Zakim> +Mike
16:00:48 <Zakim> +Sam
16:01:13 <Zakim> + +049699435aaff
16:01:21 <MikeSmith> Zakim, Mike has MikeSmith 
16:01:21 <Zakim> +MikeSmith; got it
16:01:34 <kliehm> zakim, mute me
16:01:34 <Zakim> kliehm should now be muted
16:01:59 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #html-wg
16:02:32 <Laura> Laura has joined #html-wg
16:02:37 <cardona507> zakim, +1.841.454.aabb is me
16:02:45 <manu> Paul: There is a version 2 of the agenda, sent to the WG list
16:02:50 <frankolivier> frankolivier has joined #html-wg
16:02:52 <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0476.html
16:02:53 <pimpbot> Title: [VER 2] {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-10-15: AIs, Task Forces, F2F meeting plans from Paul Cotton on 2009-10-15 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:02:54 <Zakim> sorry, cardona507, I do not recognize a party named '+1.841.454.aabb'
16:03:23 <manu> Paul: I've had some background discussions with people offline so we can speed the meeting up.
16:03:29 <plh> zakim, aabb is cardona507
16:03:29 <Zakim> +cardona507; got it
16:03:31 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
16:03:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), cardona507, [Microsoft], Manu, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Plh (muted), Julian, Eliot_Graff, gsnedders, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft.aa], Shepazu, Mike,
16:03:35 <Zakim> ... Sam, kliehm (muted)
16:03:36 <plh> zakim, you're a good bot
16:03:37 <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has adrianba, travil, tross, krisk
16:03:38 <Zakim> Mike has MikeSmith
16:03:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you're a good bot', plh
16:03:43 <cardona507> zakim, mute me
16:03:45 <manu> Topic: Action Items
16:03:50 <Zakim> cardona507 should now be muted
16:03:58 <Laura> zakim, aacc is me
16:04:03 <Zakim> sorry, Laura, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
16:04:16 <manu> Paul: Agenda Item 1a
16:04:25 <manu> Paul: Issue 07 ACTION 130
16:04:25 <dsinger> Zakim, unmute me
16:04:25 <Zakim> dsinger should no longer be muted
16:04:35 <rubys> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009OctDec/0004.html
16:04:36 <pimpbot> Title: Re: {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-10-15: AIs, Task Forces, F2F meeting plans from Dave Singer on 2009-10-14 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from October to December 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:04:49 <paulc> Status report on 1a: tp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009OctDec/0004.html 
16:04:54 <manu> Paul: David mentioned no progress and that we extend this 2 weeks.
16:05:08 <Laura> zakim, +1.715.718.aacc is me
16:05:08 <Zakim> sorry, Laura, I do not recognize a party named '+1.715.718.aacc'
16:05:10 <Zakim> + +1.415.595.aagg
16:05:11 <manu> David: haven't achieved anything reportable, but am spending alot of time on this
16:05:16 <paulc> David is making progress but does not have something to report yet.
16:05:24 <manu> David: Lots of meetings, talking with lots of people.
16:05:49 <cardona507> :)
16:05:51 <manu> Paul: Let's be more accurate with 2 weeks... 
16:06:01 <manu> David: Why dont' we defer this and discuss where we are with the F2F
16:06:07 <Zakim> +Radhika_Roy
16:06:09 <gsnedders> s/t'/'t/
16:06:10 <manu> Paul: that would be November 5th
16:06:20 <Laura> +Laura
16:06:49 <rubys> action-130 is due in 3 weeks
16:07:07 <MikeSmith> action-130 due 2009-11-05
16:07:07 <trackbot> ACTION-130 Review status of video codec positions due date now 2009-11-05
16:07:11 <dsinger> Zakim, mute me
16:07:11 <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
16:07:22 <manu> Paul: Moving on to agendum 1b
16:07:35 <manu> Paul: In v2 of the agenda, I pointed at Larry's update - there was a meeting
16:07:50 <manu> Paul: He is making some progress, he agreed that we could just extend this item.
16:07:51 <paulc> Larry's report: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0433.html 
16:07:52 <pimpbot> Title: Regrets for tomorrow; URL/IRI progress, ISSUE-56/ACTION-37 from Larry Masinter on 2009-10-14 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:08:08 <manu> Paul: Any objection to extending this by two weeks.
16:08:13 <paulc> action-137 is due in 2 weeks
16:08:17 <manu> s/weeks./weeks\?/
16:08:33 <paulc> action-137 due in 2 weeks
16:08:33 <trackbot> ACTION-137 Update IRI spec based on comments to Public-IRI (Including those from HTML-WG members), due date now in 2 weeks
16:08:51 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-wg
16:08:56 <manu> Paul: item C, Action-138
16:09:13 <manu> Paul: Steven says that we have an agreement to file bugs once the Accessibility Task Force is engaged.
16:09:22 <manu> Paul: I propose that we extend this action two weeks out
16:09:24 <Zakim> +Rich
16:09:33 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #html-wg
16:09:35 <manu> Paul: There is an agendum on the task force 
16:09:35 <paulc> action-138 due in 2 weeks
16:09:35 <trackbot> ACTION-138 Produce a matrix based on Henri's work due date now in 2 weeks
16:09:37 <richardschwerdtfe> agenda?
16:09:42 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
16:09:54 <Zakim> -Manu
16:10:14 <manu> Paul: Manu took the action to discuss this on the mailing list
16:10:24 <paulc> Manu's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0420.html 
16:10:25 <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-76: Need feedback on splitting Microdata into separate specification from Manu Sporny on 2009-10-14 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:10:48 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:11:47 <mjs> there's noise on the line
16:12:06 <Zakim> +Manu
16:12:27 <Laura> zakim, who is on the call?
16:12:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see dsinger (muted), cardona507 (muted), [Microsoft], Joseph_Scheuhammer, Plh, Julian, Eliot_Graff, gsnedders, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft.aa], Shepazu, Mike, Sam,
16:12:31 <Zakim> ... kliehm (muted), +1.415.595.aagg, Radhika_Roy, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly, Manu
16:12:32 <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has adrianba, travil, tross, krisk
16:12:33 <Zakim> Mike has MikeSmith
16:12:48 <paulc> action-139 due in 1 week
16:12:48 <trackbot> ACTION-139 Propose 3 separate HTML5 drafts and the external Microdata draft due date now in 1 week
16:12:50 <mjs> q+
16:12:57 <manu> Manu: Discussion is ongoing
16:12:59 <mjs> q-
16:13:10 <taf2> is Zakim a bot?
16:13:18 <rubys> taf2: yes
16:13:22 <manu> Topic: Agenda Item 2 
16:13:38 <manu> Paul: How do we generate official Working Draft responses
16:13:41 <Laura> zakim, aagg is me
16:13:41 <Zakim> +Laura; got it
16:13:55 <manu> Paul: Working on documents we might want to review... opened a call for volunteers to review MathML 3.0
16:14:09 <paulc> call for volunteers: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0475.html 
16:14:11 <pimpbot> Title: Call for Volunteers: Review of MathML 3.0 Last Call from Paul Cotton on 2009-10-15 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:14:16 <paulc> to review the MathML 3.0 spec
16:14:37 <manu> Paul: Last week, when we talked about this - we might want to create an issue to switch MathML from v2.0 to v3.0
16:15:13 <manu> Paul: Getting link to the bug 7848...
16:15:14 <pimpbot> 11http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7848 pcotton@microsoft.com, P2, NEW, 13MathML version used in HTML5
16:15:40 <paulc> action-127 due in 1 week
16:15:40 <trackbot> ACTION-127 establish process for "official WG response" to other WG's RFC on LC drafts due date now in 1 week
16:15:42 <manu> Paul: Making progress on this item, we can continue to extend it... looking for volunteers to address this bug
16:15:47 <annevk2> annevk2 has joined #html-wg
16:15:47 <krisk> krisk has joined #html-wg
16:16:18 <annevk2> Zakim, passcode?
16:16:18 <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), annevk2
16:16:20 <Zakim> +Cooper
16:16:33 <manu> Topic: Document Last Call process
16:16:40 <pimpbot> Title: Teleconference cheat sheet - Protocols and Formats Working Group Wiki (at www.w3.org)
16:16:40 <manu> Paul: Give us an update, Maciej
16:16:50 <manu> Maciej: The last call comment process 
16:17:05 <manu> ... we published a draft for discussion... there was good feedback... changes were made.
16:17:19 <adrianba> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Oct/0341.html
16:17:20 <manu> ... fixed a few issues... one significant comment still outstanding.
16:17:20 <pimpbot> Title: RE: [minutes] 20091008 HTML Working Group call from Adrian Bateman on 2009-10-12 (public-html@w3.org from October 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
16:17:29 <manu> ... from Adrian bateman.
16:17:40 <manu> ... I'd like to continue the action until next week.
16:17:45 <paulc> action-141 due in 1 week
16:17:45 <trackbot> ACTION-141 Document Last Call comment process due date now in 1 week
16:17:59 <manu> Paul: Once we get a revised version, we should get a call for consensus.
16:18:03 <Zakim> +Amit
16:18:16 <annevk2> Zakim, Amit is me
16:18:16 <Zakim> +annevk2; got it
16:18:40 <manu> Manu: I was asked to do a Change Proposal, what should I do?
16:18:52 <rubys> q+
16:18:58 <manu> Maciej: You can volunteer to do a CP before the document has a call for consensus.
16:19:08 <paulc> ack rubys
16:19:17 <manu> Manu: I'll write up a change proposal.
16:21:06 <Zakim> -Shepazu
16:21:33 <manu> Maciej: The contents of Manu's proposal doesn't have everything that we'd ask to have in a Change Proposal.
16:22:00 <mjs> http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html#change-proposal
16:22:02 <pimpbot> Title: HTML Working Group Decision Policy (at dev.w3.org)
16:22:04 <dsinger> dsinger has joined #html-wg
16:22:15 <manu> Maciej: There are 4 things that we ask to be in a CP
16:22:26 <Zakim> -dsinger
16:22:30 <Zakim> +[apple]
16:22:40 <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
16:22:40 <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
16:22:49 <manu> Maciej: Indication on how baseline spec was changed.
16:23:00 <gsnedders> Zakim, q?
16:23:00 <Zakim> I see Cynthia_Shelly on the speaker queue
16:23:13 <manu> Maciej: Rationale... and impact statement.
16:23:26 <paulc> ack cyn
16:23:40 <manu> Cynthia: Is there any place to host a change request at this point?
16:23:48 <manu> Cynthia: How should be submit change proposals?
16:24:21 <manu> Maciej: I'll try to set this up... a wiki... to make this process easier.
16:24:40 <manu> Cynthia: Comments about process itself.... on PF call, question came up about the one month deadline.
16:24:53 <manu> Cynthia: how does this work with a backlog of issues?
16:25:26 <manu> Maciej: We are not sending a call for volunteers for backlog of issues to ensure that the list doesn't get swamped
16:25:42 <manu> Paul: So, the 30-day date only starts once somebody volunteers to do the task.
16:26:13 <manu> Cynthia: Once an issue has been escalated and had a WG decision.
16:26:29 <manu> Cynthia: Once there is consensus, is there a deadline for the editor to make the change?
16:26:37 <manu> Paul: Don't think so, Maciej?
16:27:13 <manu> Maciej: We can't exit last call until all comments are addressed... so it behooves the editor to address all LC comments.
16:27:51 <manu> Paul: If the editorial team can't keep up, that's a problem.
16:27:58 <manu> Maciej: It depends on the nature of the change proposal.
16:28:48 <manu> Cynthia: I'm concerned that editorial changes may get preference based on the editor's preferences.
16:28:59 <manu> Paul: If that becomes an issue, you should approach the chairs.
16:29:24 <manu> Paul: There are ways the chairs could mitigate the issue.
16:29:31 <manu> Maciej: I agree.
16:30:01 <manu> Paul: Adrians issue is still outstanding, we'll leave the e-mail discussion open until next week
16:30:09 <manu> Paul: Item C - Action-150 create bugzilla entry
16:30:16 <manu> Topic: Item C - Action-150 create bugzilla entry
16:30:24 <manu> Paul: manu created this bug as requested.
16:30:41 <manu> Paul: Maciej asked that the bug become split into separate issues.
16:31:10 <manu> Paul: The discussion could continue on the HTML WG.
16:31:18 <manu> Maciej: It's better to file issues as separate bug reports.
16:31:34 <manu> Maciej: My comments are just a suggestion... 
16:33:07 <manu> Maciej: We should close the action... up to Manu how he should proceed.
16:33:08 <paulc> close action-150
16:33:08 <trackbot> ACTION-150 Create a bugzilla entry on head/@profile closed
16:33:23 <manu> Manu: I'm concerned with how we deal with as a FPWD.
16:33:37 <manu> Topic: Call for VOlunteers for Test and Accessibility TF
16:33:54 <manu> Paul: We're trying to find volunteers right now
16:34:16 <manu> Topic: Plans for F2F meeting
16:34:30 <manu> Paul: Web poll has said that we might have 25 people + observers in the room
16:34:48 <manu> Paul: We originally reserved the room for 15... how do we have a large enough room?
16:35:00 <manu> Paul: Chairs should take an action to address this issue, if it is an issue
16:35:07 <gsnedders> q+
16:35:14 <manu> Paul: don't know how many people have registered as potential observers?
16:35:20 <kliehm> I regret I can't attend TPAC.  :-(
16:35:46 <manu> Snedders: We had as many observers last year - 25 observers, 25 members.
16:35:48 <MichaelC> Registrants for HTML: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC09/registrants#html
16:36:14 <manu> Paul: We might encourage some to attend through Thurs/Friday - we should make sure we get the right size of room.
16:36:22 <manu> Cynthia: Room last year worked pretty well last year.
16:36:45 <manu> Cynthia: 4-5 rows of seats
16:37:04 <gsnedders> ack me
16:37:12 <manu> Michael: We have 40-60 people... should work with Mike and Susan to make sure the room is big enough.
16:37:29 <manu> Paul: I'll make sure that I and ???? will take care of this...
16:37:37 <manu> Topic: Joint Meetings
16:37:41 <manu> Paul: Two joint meetings planned
16:37:47 <manu> Paul: First is with TC-39
16:38:01 <manu> Paul: Common topics are more interesting to WebApps than us.
16:38:04 <manu> Paul: That's on Friday
16:38:23 <manu> Paul: TAG has approached the co-chairs about scheduling joint meeting between TAG and HTML WG
16:38:32 <aroben> aroben has joined #html-wg
16:38:32 <manu> Paul: They have a slot after lunch on Thursday
16:38:54 <manu> Maciej: The format of the meeting itself...
16:39:01 <manu> Maciej: We haven't decided on a format yet... 
16:39:23 <manu> ... we're trying to use the 'unconference' style for the meeting - BarCamp style
16:39:30 <manu> ... short statement introducing the meeting
16:39:44 <manu> ... short 5-10 minute lightning presentation or presenting a breakout session
16:39:55 <manu> ... straw poll of attendees, schedule sessions on the fly
16:40:11 <manu> ... this will work well because people can focus on the areas that they are interested in.
16:40:25 <manu> ... it will help more people attend things they are more interested in.
16:40:37 <manu> ... smaller groups will be more successful at discussing items.
16:40:47 <manu> ... video element came out of last years TPAC using this approach.
16:41:12 <paulc> ACTION: Maciej to outline unconference format for F2F meeting - 1 week
16:41:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-153 - Outline unconference format for F2F meeting - 1 week [on Maciej Stachowiak - due 2009-10-22].
16:41:18 <manu> Paul: We need to give you an action to get this format out in from of the working group.
16:41:30 <manu> Paul: Next week we anticipate a call for topics.
16:41:31 <annevk2> unconference++
16:41:34 <gsnedders> (Mini-sessions basically didn't happen last year, FWIW)
16:41:35 <mjs> this was at TPAC 2 years ago, for the record
16:41:42 <mjs> that we did the unconference style
16:42:00 <paulc> ACTION: paulc (or Mike smith) to check on room size and number - 1 week
16:42:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - (or Mike smith) to check on room size and number - 1 week [on Paul Cotton - due 2009-10-22].
16:42:14 <manu> Someone: We may want to have multiple groups of 10 people be in separate rooms.
16:42:56 <manu> Paul: We'll see if we can get a large room that we can divide.
16:43:12 <manu> Paul: Mike and I will look into that... any other comments on F2F meeting.
16:43:16 <annevk2> ACTION-154?
16:43:16 <trackbot> ACTION-154 -- Paul Cotton to (or Mike smith) to check on room size and number - 1 week -- due 2009-10-22 -- OPEN
16:43:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/154
16:43:17 <paulc> Scribe for next week?
16:43:17 <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-154 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
16:43:24 <manu> Paul: Any scribe for next week?
16:43:24 <taf2_> taf2_ has joined #html-wg
16:43:33 <manu> Paul: Maciej is up for chairing next week.
16:43:51 <manu> Paul: Any objection to adjourning.
16:43:53 <Zakim> -Rich
16:43:59 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
16:44:19 <Zakim> -Cooper
16:44:21 <Zakim> -kliehm
16:44:47 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:44:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html manu
16:44:52 <manu> rrsagent, make log public
16:44:56 <Zakim> -cardona507
16:44:58 <Zakim> -Plh
16:45:00 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aa]
16:45:01 <Zakim> -annevk2
16:45:01 <Zakim> -Julian
16:45:02 <Zakim> -[apple]
16:45:02 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:45:04 <Zakim> -Radhika_Roy
16:45:04 <Zakim> -gsnedders
16:45:06 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
16:45:07 <Zakim> -Laura
16:45:09 <Zakim> -Mike
16:45:14 <Zakim> -Manu
16:45:27 <Zakim> -Sam
16:45:33 <Zakim> -Eliot_Graff
16:48:40 <Travis> Travis has left #html-wg
16:48:50 <krisk> krisk has left #html-wg
16:50:58 <MichaelC> MichaelC has left #html-wg
16:59:57 <drry> drry has joined #HTML-WG
17:05:05 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
17:05:07 <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
17:05:08 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.398.aaaa, +1.831.454.aabb, dsinger, [Microsoft], +1.715.718.aacc, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Plh, Eliot_Graff, Julian, Manu, Shepazu, gsnedders, adrianba, travil,
17:05:12 <Zakim> ... tross, krisk, Sam, +049699435aaff, MikeSmith, kliehm, cardona507, +1.415.595.aagg, Radhika_Roy, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly, Laura, Cooper, annevk2
17:05:20 <plh> zakim, bye
17:05:20 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-wg
17:05:30 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:05:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html manu
17:05:31 <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 15 Oct 2009 (at www.w3.org)
17:23:41 <aroben> aroben has joined #html-wg
17:32:57 <gsnedders> s/discuss where we are with the F2F/discuss where we are at the F2F?/
17:33:25 <gsnedders> s/weeks\?/weeks?/
17:34:45 <gsnedders> s/Manu took the action/item D, Action-139, Manu took the action/
17:35:23 <gsnedders> s/bateman/Bateman/
17:36:01 <gsnedders> s/How should be submit/How should we submit/
17:38:09 <gsnedders> s/I'll try to set this up... a wiki... to make this process easier./I'll try and set up a namespace on the HTML WG wiki for this, to make the process easier... But you can also send it as an email or an attachment./
17:38:49 <gsnedders> s/for backlog of issues to/for the entire backlog of issues to/
17:39:12 <Philip> (A namespace? Heretic!)
17:39:26 <gsnedders> s/Adrians/Adrian's/
17:39:44 <gsnedders> s/manu created/Manu created/
17:41:03 <gsnedders> s/deal with as/deal with the issues as/
17:42:29 <gsnedders> s/We had as many observers last year - 25 observers, 25 members./We had as many observers as working group members last years - around 25 members, 25 observers./
17:43:18 <annevk2> annevk2 has joined #html-wg
17:43:20 <gsnedders> s/4-5 rows of seats/a rectangle of tables, and 4-5 rows of seats at the back/
17:43:50 <gsnedders> s/I and ???? will/I and the other chairs/
17:44:44 <gsnedders> s/years/year's/
17:45:15 <gsnedders> s/Someone:/Anne:/
17:45:34 <gsnedders> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:45:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html gsnedders
17:45:36 <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 15 Oct 2009 (at www.w3.org)
17:47:02 <gsnedders> Chair: Paul Cotton
17:47:07 <gsnedders> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:47:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-html-wg-minutes.html gsnedders
17:47:08 <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 15 Oct 2009 (at www.w3.org)
17:47:14 <sbublava> sbublava has joined #html-wg
17:50:14 <gsnedders> rrsagent, stop