15:03:31 RRSAgent has joined #swxg 15:03:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-swxg-irc 15:03:33 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:03:35 zakim mute me 15:03:35 Zakim, this will be 7994 15:03:35 ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago 15:03:36 Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference 15:03:36 Date: 14 October 2009 15:03:42 Zakim, next agenda 15:03:42 agendum 1. "Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-10-14T15:00-17:00Z" taken up [from harry] 15:03:47 zakim, mute me 15:03:47 sorry, rreck, I don't know what conference this is 15:03:51 cperey has joined #swxg 15:03:56 chair: DKA 15:04:10 zakim, pick a scribe 15:04:10 sorry, harry, I don't know what conference this is 15:04:11 DKA has joined #swxg 15:04:19 Zakim, this is 994 15:04:19 sorry, harry, I do not see a conference named '994' in progress or scheduled at this time 15:04:19 Chair: DKA 15:04:24 Zakim, this is 7994 15:04:24 ok, harry; that matches INC_SWXG()11:00AM 15:04:28 zakim, mute me 15:04:28 rreck should now be muted 15:04:29 Zakim, pick a scribe 15:04:29 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Adam 15:04:32 zakim, who is here? 15:04:32 On the phone I see pchampin (muted), Adam, tinkster, harry, oshani, +44.131.208.aaee, MacTed (muted), mischat (muted), AlexPassant, rreck (muted), +0771785aahh, ??P34 15:04:35 On IRC I see DKA, cperey, RRSAgent, melvster, Adam, pchampin, Zakim, rreck, oshani, mischat, mattl, MacTed, harry, karl, tinkster, AlexPassant, trackbot 15:04:35 adam? 15:04:41 Zakim, pick a scribe 15:04:41 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rreck (muted) 15:04:47 + +1.617.848.aaii 15:04:50 i might have to leave to 15:04:53 zakim, who is here? 15:04:53 On the phone I see pchampin (muted), Adam, tinkster, harry, oshani, +44.131.208.aaee, MacTed (muted), mischat (muted), AlexPassant, rreck (muted), +0771785aahh, ??P34, 15:04:54 Zakim, pick a scribe 15:04:55 plus i suck at it 15:04:56 ... +1.617.848.aaii 15:04:58 On IRC I see DKA, cperey, RRSAgent, melvster, Adam, pchampin, Zakim, rreck, oshani, mischat, mattl, MacTed, harry, karl, tinkster, AlexPassant, trackbot 15:05:01 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +0771785aahh 15:05:10 scribe: adam 15:05:15 Zakim, who's here? 15:05:15 On the phone I see pchampin (muted), Adam, tinkster, harry, oshani, +44.131.208.aaee, MacTed (muted), mischat (muted), AlexPassant, rreck (muted), +0771785aahh, ??P34, 15:05:19 ... +1.617.848.aaii 15:05:20 On IRC I see DKA, cperey, RRSAgent, melvster, Adam, pchampin, Zakim, rreck, oshani, mischat, mattl, MacTed, harry, karl, tinkster, AlexPassant, trackbot 15:05:25 yes 15:05:29 yup 15:05:29 yes, I did 15:05:30 PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 7th October 2009 as a true record 15:05:39 +1 15:05:41 dka: everybody see the w3c website, the new one 15:05:50 http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html 15:05:54 zakim +1.617.848.aaii is me 15:05:56 Going once, going twice... 15:06:06 RESOLVED:SWXG WG Weekly -- 7th October 2009 is a true record 15:06:09 how do I do this? 15:06:18 Zakim, next agendum 15:06:18 agendum 2. "General Organization" taken up [from harry] 15:06:33 RESOLVED: to meet again Wed. Oct 21st. 15:07:07 Yeah! 15:07:14 dka: update with open web social day which is now the social camp 15:07:27 http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara 15:07:29 zakim, +1.617.848.aaii is me 15:07:29 +cperey; got it 15:07:30 ... going to do something thats for sure 15:07:45 dka: eventbrite registration has been opened up 15:07:49 maybe throw out the eventbrite URL so people can register! 15:08:15 dka: take advantage of 2nd of november hosting provided by henry (sun) 15:08:37 ... took logo from other social web camp and re-used it and run this as a bar camp 15:08:52 ... want to have presentation and interactive sessions around different topics related to social web 15:09:07 ... review site for text on what, whom, how etc 15:09:58 ... have reached out to a number of people to help organize and do outreach 15:10:01 pchampin1 has joined #swxg 15:10:33 ... the quality of this really hinges on the quality of the attendees .... no judgment here .... need to bring in smart people to make the day interactive 15:11:05 .... primary role is not to be a w3c standard conversation but to have open topic discussions 15:11:20 .... hoping to get people from social web community, large and small 15:11:34 i'm on the phone as well :) 15:11:41 -pchampin 15:11:49 can we add an entry on the wiki to add what technologies people are working internally 15:11:55 q? 15:12:01 q+ 15:12:08 ack misch 15:12:09 zakim, unmute me 15:12:10 ack mischat 15:12:11 mischat was not muted, mischat 15:12:30 mischat: can we put something on the wiki to help people internally that can't be there 15:12:38 +1 15:12:47 We should have a section on wiki on technologies anywhere. 15:13:08 .... a list of social networks that are using specific technologies within their systems 15:13:14 2D-table. 15:13:27 Social networks along one axis; features along the other. 15:13:42 @mischat, like a page to let the community put the data in there themselves? 15:13:52 zakim, mute me 15:13:52 mischat should now be muted 15:13:59 ACTION: michat to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. 15:13:59 Sorry, couldn't find user - michat 15:14:01 mischat: accepted action item to create a wiki page 15:14:08 ACTION: mtuffied to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. 15:14:08 Sorry, couldn't find user - mtuffied 15:14:12 q? 15:14:14 mtiffiel 15:14:14 ACTION: mtuffield to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. 15:14:14 Sorry, couldn't find user - mtuffield 15:14:32 someone i know cant spell:) 15:14:51 dka: i would like to add more linkages from the barcamp page in to our wiki so people understand background and context 15:14:54 mtiffiel 15:14:58 caribou has joined #swxg 15:15:06 ACTION: mtiffiel to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. 15:15:08 +pchampin 15:15:16 Created ACTION-98 - Put up wiki page about social networks deploying these technologies. [on Mischa Tuffield - due 2009-10-21]. 15:15:34 .... somebody could talk people through one of the use cases on our wiki page 15:15:43 ack pc 15:16:21 dka: can we get a quick straw poll who is planning to be there? 15:16:21 +1 15:16:28 ... for both the camp and face to face 15:16:29 +! 15:16:31 maybe (one last attempt at funding!) 15:16:32 +1 15:16:51 -1 :-( 15:16:55 -1 15:16:56 dka: we're assuming you're going to be there harry :) 15:17:03 -1 15:17:05 -1 15:17:22 yup 15:17:23 -1 15:17:26 I get none. 15:17:32 -1, I will not attend 15:17:37 I think fabien and henry story. 15:17:49 i will be there for both 15:17:57 To go to Tuesday 15:18:00 Do we have an agenda? 15:18:08 -AlexPassant 15:18:12 dka: lets get an agenda for the tuesday face to face 15:18:24 Basically Dave Morin from Facebook and Joseph Smarr from Plaxo (editor PortableContacts) 15:18:37 harry: good news for face-to-face, joe smarr and ??? from facebook have agreed to be there 15:19:19 q+ 15:19:20 ack me 15:19:22 .... wondering what to focus the f2f on? maybe finish the use case doc and going over the final report .. brainstorming on the final report and getting feedback while facebook and plax is there to get feedback 15:19:58 dka: couldn't we focus the discussion on the gaps in the open social web standards 15:20:08 ... then it could be somethign we could recommend in our report 15:20:13 +??P48 15:20:17 Zakim, ??P48 is me 15:20:17 +AlexPassant; got it 15:20:49 tinkster: how do I tell Zakim that i'm on the phone? 15:20:51 Two mappings I think Facebook Connect/OpenSocial divide 15:20:52 dka: maybe an a mapping opportunity 15:21:01 And then the PortableContacts/FOAF mapping divide 15:21:08 harry: maybe a facebook connect and portable contacts and the mapping divide between them 15:21:14 Want to recommend for future standardization issue. 15:21:37 http://portablecontacts.net/ 15:21:43 DKA? 15:22:08 mattl, say "Zakim, (blah) is me" 15:22:17 tinkster: where blah is? 15:22:26 dka: would like to be more focused on open day but will to spend a few cycles on the f2f day 15:22:27 zakim, who is here? 15:22:27 On the phone I see Adam, tinkster, harry, oshani, +44.131.208.aaee, MacTed (muted), mischat (muted), rreck (muted), +0771785aahh, ??P34, cperey, pchampin (muted), AlexPassant 15:22:27 ACTION: hhalpin to make agenda for TPAC Tuesday 15:22:27 Created ACTION-99 - Make agenda for TPAC Tuesday [on Harry Halpin - due 2009-10-21]. 15:22:30 On IRC I see caribou, pchampin, DKA, cperey, RRSAgent, melvster, Adam, Zakim, rreck, oshani, mischat, mattl, MacTed, harry, karl, tinkster, AlexPassant, trackbot 15:22:48 (blah) is perhaps ??P34 15:22:56 + +46.1.08.01.aajj 15:22:56 David Recordon (Facebook/Open Web Foundation) plenary with Daniel Appelquist... 15:23:14 Zakim, ??P34 is me 15:23:14 +mattl; got it 15:23:18 Kevin Marks (Google) on Developer Day Thursday. 15:23:33 I can e-mail them, they both can't attend. 15:23:39 I can tell them to forward. 15:23:55 Internet Identity Workshop? 15:23:57 nope 15:23:57 -1 15:24:28 [CONTINUES] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members. 15:24:34 [CONTINUES] ACTION:Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG. 15:24:35 carry on, i'm still waking up. 15:24:43 [CONTINUES] ACTION: mischa to write up Peter's talk on XMPP 15:24:54 what about Use Cases? what has happened to those? 15:24:55 nope harry sorry not yet, but yes i will do it very soon 15:25:02 yes, I have an outstanding action. 15:25:10 yes will work on it 15:25:11 [CONTINUE] ACTION: tinkster to write up Evan's talk on Open Microblogging 15:25:20 Zakim, next agendum 15:25:20 agendum 3. "Invited Guest Invitations" taken up [from harry] 15:25:28 [CONTINUES] ACTION: danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets 15:25:34 [CONTINUES] ACTION: cperey to book global lockbox as an invited speaker 15:25:35 yes 15:25:39 there's interest 15:25:41 any day they want in particular? 15:25:44 Just add it on the wiki. 15:25:45 but we haven't come up with a date 15:25:46 OK. 15:25:49 Yep 15:26:06 [DONE] ACTION: Harry to invite Ben Laurie from OAuth/Google to W3C Social Web talk 15:26:22 I'm not sure ideas on how OAuth could/should/does interact with current standards? 15:26:31 WebApps WG? 15:26:48 Sounds perfect. 15:26:53 dka: on how oAuth could be used in the context of a widget 15:26:53 http://www.w3.org/2009/policy-ws/cfp.html 15:27:02 the Access Control Applications Scenarios 15:27:07 W3C Workshop 15:27:45 these people look like they are up OAuth's street W3C Workshop on Access Control Application Scenarios 15:28:16 hajons has joined #swxg 15:28:25 ACTION: DKA to ping hhalpin names for OAuth talk from Webapps 15:28:30 Created ACTION-100 - Ping hhalpin names for OAuth talk from Webapps [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-10-21]. 15:28:32 i dont know about it 15:28:35 i just saw it now 15:28:38 google side wiki : http://www.google.com/sidewiki/intl/en/index.html 15:28:47 zakim, unmute me 15:28:47 mischat should no longer be muted 15:28:58 [CONTINUES] ACTION: mtiffiel to invite BBC Persia people to talk about their use of social media 15:29:00 Zakim, mute me 15:29:00 mattl should now be muted 15:29:09 I'll definitely point Ben towards that. 15:29:19 mischat: oauth is usually dished out for access control so maybe point towards that group 15:29:27 zakim, mute me 15:29:27 mischat should now be muted 15:29:29 [CONTINUES] ACTION: petef to look into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris Messina 15:29:37 Zakim, next agendum 15:29:37 agendum 4. "User Stories" taken up [from harry] 15:29:39 -AlexPassant 15:30:20 [CONTINUES] ACTION: adam to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks 15:30:28 [CONTINUES] ACTION : rreck to flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple identies and null provenance 15:30:37 [CONTINUES] ACTION:oshani to reframe the geolocation/intent/portability 15:30:43 [CONTINUES] ACTION: bblfish to relabel data protection use case to be about controlled access and takedown to data "about" you 15:30:49 [CONTINUES] ACTION: bblfish to merge Family and Group access usecases 15:30:52 [CONTINUES] ACTION:caribou to flesh out Data Protection use-case specifying user vs. purpose, cite their work in PrimeLife 15:31:04 [CONTINUES] ACTION: hhalpin explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases 15:31:10 Higgh-level categories Christine? 15:31:20 Zakim, next agendum 15:31:20 agendum 5. "Final Report" taken up [from harry] 15:32:08 harry: do people have any thoughts about what to be in the final report, would be good to have some discussion before tpac. due in march so should probably have an outline prior to tpac. maybe take that up next week 15:32:09 what should be in final report? 15:32:15 Zakim, unmute me 15:32:15 mattl should no longer be muted 15:32:18 Next steps for standardization, or continue as XG or IG, or stop activity? 15:32:23 Any structural changes to make W3C more friendly to the Social Web? 15:32:52 Zakim, next agendum 15:32:52 agendum 6. "Speaker: Matt Lee on GNU Social/Daisycha.in" taken up [from harry] 15:33:19 Sometimes XGs continue for another year, although it's rare. 15:33:45 +??P48 15:33:47 Zakim, ??P48 is me 15:33:47 +AlexPassant; got it 15:34:02 dka: point on action, our default should not be to continue the XG ... not that i don't think its valuable, just think its more valuable if we separately go off and think about what do we do with this .... this is how i think XGs are intended to work 15:34:19 me 15:34:20 harry: just putting some ideas out there and keep it in the background 15:34:23 http://libre.fm/ 15:34:32 http://matt.lee.name/ 15:34:32 i have had a play libre.fm 15:34:43 http://daisycha.in/ 15:35:07 agreed 15:35:34 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Oct/0027.html 15:35:36 harry: if roll your own social network is great from a w3c stand point need to have some example out there 15:35:54 mattl: found of libre.fm and chosen to do daisychan.in 15:36:26 harry: what sort of codes and other standards are you building daisychain on and how do they interoperate with one anohter 15:36:26 So what pieces of software are you planning on using? 15:36:46 zakim, who is here? 15:36:46 On the phone I see Adam, tinkster, harry, oshani, +44.131.208.aaee, MacTed (muted), mischat (muted), rreck (muted), +0771785aahh, mattl, cperey, pchampin (muted), +46.1.08.01.aajj, 15:36:50 ... AlexPassant 15:36:51 On IRC I see hajons, caribou, pchampin, DKA, cperey, RRSAgent, melvster, Adam, Zakim, rreck, oshani, mischat, mattl, MacTed, harry, karl, tinkster, AlexPassant, trackbot 15:37:08 mattl: taking people that are not programmers and building them up on php knowledge .... looking at a forming a legal working cooperative to encourage people to develop 15:37:16 ... and then sharing any money that would come in 15:37:53 .... daisychain goal is to be build a social network, could take our version or run it themselves ... can you run it on a dreamhost account, on a $5 hosting account .. reason why we're using php 15:38:06 ... everyday get to explain why we chose php 15:38:50 ... with libre.fm don't support openid, want to support but last.fm doesn't support them either so we would have to figure out how to still be able to work with last.fm plugins 15:39:17 harry: what have you already chosen, or most likely will choose to implement 15:39:55 mattl: one obvious is openid, people don't like to have to register for an account, people have actually filed bugs with us and said they won't use the software due to lack of openid 15:40:15 ... and FOAF support ... many of the users are also identica users 15:40:28 ... those people are hardcore users and provided a lot of bugs and feedback 15:40:42 maybe ;-) 15:40:43 ... unaware of anything else we should be supporting 15:40:54 +q 15:41:19 -AlexPassant 15:41:49 ack mischat 15:41:58 mattl: initially thoughts where to sit down for 2 weeks and hammer out facebook ... but maybe just doing something very basic would be a good basis for a starting point 15:42:25 mischat: if you envision your type of vision, how will the need for a server play in to that 15:42:45 mattl: i don't see a centralized model coming about 15:43:13 ... we want to get away from the idea of having any kind of centralized server 15:43:35 ... maybe if we get a bunch of different people running their own, maybe could have people use URIs 15:44:05 yes, i want to know who is talking about me 15:44:10 I've lost my connection but SIOC would be also interesting to investigate to make content interoperable 15:44:11 mattl: do you want to know who is talkign about you if you don't know who they are 15:44:19 mischat: yeah probably 15:44:48 mattl: i think what will happen is, like libre.fm, is there will be a service that we will operate and people will just start using that 15:44:53 +??P13 15:44:58 Zakim, ??P13 is me 15:44:58 +AlexPassant; got it 15:45:07 Alex - Mattl may not be aware of SIOC 15:45:13 perhaps send him a link or speak? 15:45:15 - +44.131.208.aaee 15:45:43 mischat: we've been building something kind of similar ... and we index profiles if they're there and allow people to link up the data 15:45:51 mattl: you may also consider the use of SIOC - http://sioc-project.org - to expose your content(posts, etc.) in RDF and make them interoperable 15:46:02 harry: got a poor connection today, lots of disconnect :/ 15:46:03 ... without having point-to-point ... we don't see how that might work without a central index 15:46:07 +Michael 15:46:14 :) 15:46:37 Alex - there are some Zakim/bridge problems today...folks are working on this I think. 15:46:41 mattl: if you know the email address you could import those 15:47:03 zakim, mute me 15:47:03 mischat should now be muted 15:47:23 on #social channel. 15:47:38 mattl: we are in IRC in the social channel on freenode .. have weekly hacking session in the boston area 15:47:43 q+ 15:47:57 ack pchampin 15:48:14 mattl, when are where are the hacking sessions? :) 15:48:14 ... if anyone has the basic amount of php knowledge to do the work, very low threshold to getting involved .. ideas etc, just join us in IRC or hit up on the web site 15:48:23 daisycha.in 15:48:23 :) 15:48:39 pchampin: have you looked at FOAF +SSL as an authentication mechanism 15:48:45 http://esw.w3.org/topic/foaf+ssl 15:48:50 mattl: not aware of that but would be happy to look in to that 15:49:11 q+ 15:49:15 pchampin: its an identification protocol with a user experience very similar to openid but no need for a 3rd party 15:49:23 http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/foaf_ssl_creating_a_global 15:49:27 mattl: thats interesting, that seems to be more inline with our philosophy 15:49:39 foaf+ssl uses client side certs to do auth 15:49:41 pchampin: foaf+ssl already works in php 15:49:47 http://riseuplabs.org/crabgrass/ 15:49:54 http://esw.w3.org/topic/foaf+ssl 15:49:58 code-base that's been brough... 15:50:04 foaf+ssl php code : http://github.com/melvincarvalho/foafssl 15:50:12 e.g. with arc2 - http://apassant.net/blog/2009/08/26/foaf-ssl-303-redirect-and-rdfa 15:50:19 http://foaf.me uses foaf+ssl 15:50:21 harry: trying to make a list of codebases that are interesting in open standards 15:50:30 ok, so it's a coding language distinction 15:50:49 mattl: grabgrass is written on ruby on rails so it breaks one of our principles of being easily available 15:51:02 I know about foaf+ssl and php, the goal is to build things on top of that :) 15:51:11 ok pchampin - there is also a drupal module for it 15:51:24 that could be integating it with daisychain :) 15:51:24 http://elgg.org/ 15:51:27 yay! 15:51:48 mattl: thinking is working with wordpress 15:52:17 IP in this area... 15:52:34 harry: are there any components of the social web architecture that are missing? things covered by proprietary solutions 15:53:16 mattl: need to make the whole experience of creating your own social network much easier 15:53:24 very exciting vision 15:53:24 ... maybe a package to download and install 15:53:46 ... this is his own project not associated with the FSF 15:54:10 ... libre.fm is the brand name i apply to my website ... the software is called Gnu.fm and Gnu.social 15:54:17 - +46.1.08.01.aajj 15:54:32 Use of SSL may not be compatible with mattl's wish to work on $5 hosts though. :-( 15:55:27 http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/w3c-patent.html 15:56:43 W3C provide basics to get a social network up and running. 15:56:52 mattl: to me it would be great if you could go to the social xg page and get some working code thats easy to run etc 15:56:52 Free implementations of W3C recs would be good. 15:57:09 dka: trying to get the idea that the social web is a platform that applications can be on top of 15:57:14 (Generally, not just in Social Web related stuff.) 15:57:55 mattl: i don't want to see a social web where i have to install proprietary software like flash 15:58:08 ... we use a license ???? to help that 15:58:25 .... to prevent daisychain and librefm from becoming these silos 15:58:28 AGPL license 15:58:31 GNU AGPL v3 http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html 15:58:40 copyright, trademarks, patents. 15:59:04 Always, eolas! 15:59:30 GNU Affero General Public License 16:00:00 StatusNet uses the same licence. 16:00:17 mattl: have application for the android phone 16:00:37 ... a lot of possibility and want to make sure we keep focused on the free software direction 16:01:30 +1 16:01:52 just downloaded libre droid :) 16:02:01 Ted is a Cambridge... 16:02:05 harry: w3c is talking about deploying their own features to help out with the w3c process 16:02:26 http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/14/1219215/Tim-Berners-Lee-Is-Sorry-About-the-Slashes 16:02:38 http://blip.tv/file/2707910 16:03:13 mattl: i don't think the social web should be different then the web, the web is naturally social 16:04:41 i can't hear you either 16:04:43 harry: shall we end the call 16:04:49 thanks 16:04:50 -cperey 16:04:53 Any one want to write this up? 16:04:58 not me 16:05:00 :) 16:05:01 harry: who wants to write this up? 16:05:04 I'm already doing last weeks'. 16:05:22 going once... 16:05:23 okay, i'm out :) 16:05:25 going twice... 16:05:30 i could sure try 16:05:33 Isn't mattl a member of the SWXG? 16:05:37 Can't he? 16:05:37 i am 16:05:40 -harry 16:05:42 -oshani 16:05:57 i happy to go over what you write up, as i know the tech, Adam ? 16:06:02 s/i/i am/g 16:06:03 ACTION: Adam to write up Matt Lee's talk 16:06:03 Created ACTION-101 - Write up Matt Lee's talk [on Adam Boyet - due 2009-10-21]. 16:06:03 - +0771785aahh 16:06:04 -MacTed 16:06:06 -tinkster 16:06:06 -AlexPassant 16:06:08 -mattl 16:06:10 thanks mischat, i'd appreciate that 16:06:10 -pchampin 16:06:10 Meeting adjourned 16:06:14 cool 16:06:28 -Adam 16:06:32 please join #social on irc.freenode.net :) or see http://daisycha.in 16:06:36 thanks - very cool to hear about daisycha.in 16:06:50 mattl - my coding time frees up in Dec, will join in then 16:07:02 -rreck 16:07:16 trackbot, end meeting 16:07:16