06:31:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
06:31:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-svg-irc
06:31:23 <heycam> RRSAgent, make logs public
06:32:06 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
06:32:22 <heycam> Zakim, this will be SVG
06:32:22 <Zakim> ok, heycam, I see GA_SVGWG()2:30AM already started
06:32:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
06:32:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
06:32:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()2:30AM already started
06:32:28 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
06:32:28 <trackbot> Date: 14 October 2009
06:32:37 <Zakim> +Shepazu
06:32:44 <Zakim> +??P2
06:32:52 <ed> Zakim, ??P2 is me
06:32:52 <Zakim> +ed; got it
06:32:55 <Zakim> -??P1
06:32:59 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
06:32:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see wilhelm, Shepazu, ed
06:33:20 <Zakim> + +1.617.588.aabb - is perhaps wilhelm
06:33:31 <Zakim> -ed
06:33:44 <Zakim> +ChrisL
06:33:58 <Zakim> +??P2
06:34:03 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
06:34:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see wilhelm, Shepazu, wilhelm, ChrisL, ??P2
06:34:04 <ed> Zakim, ??p2 is me
06:34:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, RRSAgent, Zakim, ed, heycam, karl, anthony, shepazu, jwatt, ed_work_, trackbot
06:34:07 <Zakim> +ed; got it
06:34:59 <Zakim> -wilhelm
06:35:07 <Zakim> -wilhelm
06:35:23 <Zakim> +??P0
06:35:25 <heycam> Zakim, ??P0 is me
06:35:25 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
06:35:29 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
06:35:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shepazu, ChrisL, ed, heycam
06:35:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, RRSAgent, Zakim, ed, heycam, karl, anthony, shepazu, jwatt, ed_work_, trackbot
06:35:40 <Zakim> + +1.617.588.aacc - is perhaps wilhelm
06:35:55 <ChrisL> zakim, +1 is anthony
06:35:55 <Zakim> sorry, ChrisL, I do not recognize a party named '+1'
06:36:16 <anthony> zakim,  +1 is me
06:36:16 <Zakim> sorry, anthony, I do not recognize a party named '+1'
06:36:17 <ChrisL> zakim, 617  is anthony
06:36:17 <Zakim> sorry, ChrisL, I do not recognize a party named '617'
06:36:42 <ChrisL> zakim, aacc  is anthony
06:36:42 <Zakim> sorry, ChrisL, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
06:36:50 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
06:36:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shepazu, ChrisL, ed, heycam, wilhelm
06:36:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, RRSAgent, Zakim, ed, heycam, karl, anthony, shepazu, jwatt, ed_work_, trackbot
06:37:00 <anthony> zakim, wilhelm is anthony
06:37:00 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
06:38:30 <anthony> Scribe: anthony
06:38:34 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009OctDec/0007.html
06:38:35 <anthony> Chair: Erik
06:38:39 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2009OctDec/0005.html
06:39:02 <ed> Topic: SVG 1.1 second edition + assigning heycams actions
06:39:03 <ed> http://www.w3.org/mid/20091009033646.GC24133@wok.mcc.id.au
06:39:08 <anthony> CM: Put in the email
06:39:14 <anthony> ... all the things that I could think of
06:39:19 <anthony> ... that I had that were important
06:39:31 <anthony> ... went through open actions in tracker
06:39:38 <anthony> ... a few need to be done
06:39:45 <anthony> ... but some are not critical
06:39:50 <anthony> ... the ones that appear in the email
06:39:53 <anthony> ... should be done soon
06:40:04 <anthony> ... as well as in the email I listed the things that need to be done for 2nd edition
06:40:10 <anthony> CL: How long are you taking?
06:40:15 <anthony> CM: A few months
06:40:28 <anthony> CL: Just wanted to know how long you were talking about
06:40:41 <anthony> CM: For those ones where it's write a test
06:40:44 <anthony> ... they can wait
06:40:50 <anthony> ED: If there are any time critical
06:40:56 <anthony> ... we should reassign them
06:41:07 <anthony> CM: Ok lets go through 1 by 1
06:41:20 <anthony> ... ACTION-2514 is not that important
06:41:31 <anthony> ... bunch of old issues in the old tracker
06:41:36 <anthony> ... that hadn't been discussed
06:41:42 <anthony> ... started to go through them
06:41:50 <anthony> ... and raised issues at one point
06:41:54 <anthony> ... but most haven't been done
06:42:06 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Old_Issues
06:42:08 <anthony> ... I made a wiki page to keep a track of which ones haven't been dealt with
06:42:13 <anthony> ... see link above
06:42:38 <anthony> ... we've survived without having resolved these so far
06:42:43 <anthony> ... so when we go to do 2.0
06:42:46 <anthony> ... we look up these
06:42:51 <anthony> ... and take that into account at the time
06:43:06 <anthony> ... I don't think it needs to be reassigned
06:43:18 <anthony> ... ACTION-3291
06:43:25 <anthony> ... this is the action to look into list syntax
06:43:31 <anthony> ... so in the end I didn't get time to solve this one
06:43:39 <anthony> ... for the general case for 2nd edition
06:43:53 <anthony> ... I solved it for specific case of stroke-array
06:44:08 <anthony> s/stroke-array/stroke-dasharry/
06:44:15 <anthony> ... another one that can be worked on in SVG 2.0
06:44:25 <anthony> ... ACTION-2503
06:44:34 <ChrisL> ACTION-2503?
06:45:08 <anthony> ... this was an action to add the notes about which things we didn't have consensus on 
06:45:12 <anthony> ... regarding SVG in HTML
06:45:18 <anthony> ... but there is a newer action
06:45:26 <ChrisL> zakim, who is noisy?
06:45:37 <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: heycam (52%), anthony (66%), ChrisL (14%)
06:46:18 <ChrisL> close ACTION-2503
06:46:20 <anthony> ... which is newer than this one
06:46:40 <anthony> ACTION-2537?
06:47:16 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2537
06:47:17 <ChrisL> trackbot seems to be on the blink
06:47:43 <trackbot> ACTION-2503 -- Cameron McCormack to add ednotes to the svg-in-html spec noting points where agreement is still lacking -- due 2009-03-30 -- OPEN
06:47:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2503
06:47:48 <anthony> CM: Related to a thread a while ago on parsing script and style elements in HTML
06:48:04 <anthony> ... this action was to reply on that thread
06:48:10 <anthony> ... get current status and revise it
06:48:43 <anthony> ... but Jonas said he was going to send a proposal on changing the way HTML currently says to parse these elements
06:48:49 <anthony> ... so we should wait for the proposal
06:48:52 <anthony> ... and reply to that
06:49:08 <anthony> ... he was going to propose making those elements like CDATA elements
06:49:25 <anthony> ... but have some special step that removes pre-processing markers
06:49:32 <anthony> ... currently not what HTML says to do
06:50:12 <anthony> ... that action can be closed
06:50:31 <anthony> ACTION-2642
06:50:40 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2642
06:50:45 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2643
06:50:52 <trackbot> ACTION-2503 Add ednotes to the svg-in-html spec noting points where agreement is still lacking closed
06:50:54 <anthony> CM: This one and the next one are reminders to myself
06:50:59 <anthony> ... to do edits in the spec
06:51:07 <anthony> ... when it's ready for publication of the REC
06:51:27 <anthony> ... the first one says when it's ready for a REC, someone will have to create a blank errata page
06:51:29 <anthony> ... and link to it
06:51:48 <anthony> ... given that's only something team people can only do
06:51:55 <anthony> ... maybe Doug could have this action
06:52:00 <anthony> DS: Makes sense
06:52:42 <anthony> CM: ACTION-2643 was to make a single page version for both HTML and PDF
06:52:51 <anthony> ... the HTML one is automatically generated
06:52:58 <anthony> ... The PDF might need a bit of work
06:53:06 <anthony> ... change the styles around
06:53:10 <anthony> ... to make it look nice
06:53:53 <anthony> AG: Could just print to a PDF generator
06:54:01 <trackbot> ACTION-2537 -- Cameron McCormack to reply to the style/script thread -- due 2009-05-06 -- OPEN
06:54:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2537
06:54:18 <anthony> CM: Probably not that critical
06:54:37 <anthony> ... if you do a print to PDF it shouldn't be too hard
06:54:52 <anthony> ... this one could be reassigned to someone then
06:55:02 <anthony> AG: I can probably take the action
06:55:15 <anthony> CM: Still doesn't need to be done until we got the final REC version
06:55:35 <anthony> ... there's just some place in the index to HTML that links to the PDF version
06:56:49 <anthony> ACTION-2644?
06:56:56 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2644
06:57:10 <anthony> CM: Was thinking Chris might be good to do this one
06:57:19 <anthony> ... this is to make sure the DTD on w3.org is updated
06:57:24 <anthony> ... when the spec is published
06:57:44 <anthony> ACTION-2675
06:57:49 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2675
06:58:00 <anthony> CM: This is the one to send to the HMTL WG
06:58:09 <anthony> s/HMTL/HTML/
06:58:25 <anthony> CM: And this is to send the email about what we decided at the F2F
06:58:33 <anthony> ... to the HTML WG
06:58:44 <anthony> ... and in the action there is a link to the day 3 minutes
06:58:50 <anthony> ... with all the points that we were working through
06:59:19 <anthony> ED: I can probably take that action
06:59:36 <anthony> ... I will probably summarise that and get comments
06:59:39 <anthony> ... before sending that out
06:59:55 <ed> http://www.w3.org/2009/09/28-svg-minutes.html#item01
06:59:55 <anthony> CL: I don't see an action for this
06:59:58 <trackbot> ACTION-2644 -- Chris Lilley to update the 1.1 DTD under /Graphics/SVG when publishing 1.1SE -- due 2009-08-12 -- OPEN
06:59:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2644
07:00:08 <anthony> ... but you had that spread sheet with the test results for 1.1
07:00:20 <anthony> ... we should put in an action to say where it is
07:00:35 <anthony> CM: I will remind myself to find that email it to the list
07:00:57 <anthony> ... is there some action you want to come out of that?
07:01:04 <anthony> CL: Makes it easier to track
07:01:52 <anthony> ACTION: Chris to Take over spreadsheet implementation report for the errata tests
07:03:49 <anthony> ACTION-2680
07:03:56 <ChrisL> ACTION-2682
07:03:56 <ChrisL> Take over spreadsheet implementation report for the 1.1 SE errata tests
07:03:57 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2680
07:04:25 <anthony> CM: At the f2f we were discussing the issue in the HTML WG about foreign name space data being in SVG files
07:04:34 <anthony> ... and when that is pasted into document
07:04:44 <anthony> ... it causes the SVG part to be invalid
07:05:00 <anthony> ... due to issues with the ":"
07:05:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2683 - Take over spreadsheet implementation report for the errata tests [on Chris Lilley - due 2009-10-21].
07:05:26 <anthony> ... we were playing on the board with mapping prefixes to fixed name spaces
07:05:42 <anthony> ... and actually I noticed that MS sent their own proposal
07:05:44 <anthony> ... to the HTML WG
07:05:53 <anthony> ... which was very similar
07:05:56 <anthony> ... parts of it were
07:06:16 <anthony> ... some of the options you could choose was close to full blown name spaces
07:06:30 <anthony> ... and restricted version that was fixed prefixes
07:06:46 <anthony> ... I think that proposal will result in a lot of discussion at TPAC
07:06:58 <anthony> ... it will not really add anything if we sent in this proposal
07:06:59 <ChrisL> also at the AC meeting
07:07:05 <anthony> CL: Well it shows support\
07:07:15 <anthony> ED: Just looking through the minutes
07:07:27 <anthony> ... there is some discussion
07:07:33 <anthony> ... I could make it as part of the other action I have
07:07:43 <anthony> CM: Do you remember what the actual proposal was?
07:07:48 <anthony> ED: It's not clear from the minutes
07:07:54 <anthony> CL: One thing we could say
07:07:59 <anthony> ... is we discussed these things
07:08:03 <anthony> ... and you could do this or that
07:08:09 <anthony> ... and comment on the MS proposal
07:08:15 <anthony> ... if it meets our requirements
07:08:20 <anthony> ... we should push for it
07:08:22 <ChrisL> basically if the MS proposal meets our needs we should say so
07:08:53 <anthony> CM: What we were discussing in the F2F was getting the parser to get a set of predefined prefix mapping
07:09:03 <anthony> ... the parser will know about certain prefixes
07:09:10 <anthony> ... and would be able to split the colon
07:09:21 <anthony> ... put the element in the correct name space
07:09:26 <anthony> DS: Our proposal was simpler than MS
07:09:42 <anthony> ... and met more of the HTML needs
07:09:53 <anthony> CL: we could position ourselves in the middle ground
07:10:04 <anthony> DS: We could also point to the minutes
07:10:12 <anthony> ... to say we decided this before the MS proposal
07:10:25 <anthony> CM: The other point about our proposal if the implementation didn't know about the prefix
07:11:04 <anthony> ... it would put it in an "unknown" name space URI
07:11:16 <anthony> DS: It would be a specific name space
07:11:22 <anthony> ... to say I don't know the name space
07:11:33 <anthony> CL: Better idea than putting it into the HTML name space
07:11:40 <anthony> DS: In some ways it would be easier to debug
07:11:52 <anthony> ... because they'd see it be in the 'what ever' name space
07:11:58 <anthony> ... it would be an easy way to check
07:12:05 <anthony> ... and that goes towards extensibility
07:12:15 <anthony> CM: One thing that our proposal didn't handle
07:12:25 <anthony> ... is it doesn't do anything about non-prefixed elements
07:12:45 <anthony> ... un-prefixed elements would go into the HTML name space
07:12:57 <anthony> ... and the type of output you get from Inkscape
07:13:03 <anthony> ... tends to be all prefixed anyway
07:13:08 <anthony> ED: I think so
07:13:28 <anthony> CM: Maybe it would be a good idea
07:13:32 <anthony> ... to go through the MS proposal
07:13:38 <anthony> ... and compare it to this one
07:14:17 <anthony> ... so ED you can do this as well?
07:14:21 <anthony> ED: What's the time frame?
07:14:29 <anthony> DS: I'd say before TPAC
07:14:35 <anthony> CM: By the end of the month would be good
07:14:43 <anthony> ... not sure if they're going to stick to their schedule
07:14:53 <anthony> ... I did say I'd give comments soon after our F2F
07:16:33 <anthony> ED: Assign the action to me anyway
07:17:17 <anthony> CM: That's all the actions I listed
07:17:21 <anthony> ... in my email
07:17:37 <anthony> ... the other actions that are open on me are not as important
07:17:46 <shepazu> html wg process: http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html
07:17:55 <anthony> ED: You listed a few things regarding the 2nd edition spec
07:18:06 <anthony> CM: I listed all the things we need to get done for 2nd edition
07:18:13 <anthony> ... some of those are related to the actions
07:18:18 <anthony> ... some them are other things
07:19:17 <anthony> ED: For the one I didn't know anything about the Java bindings
07:19:21 <anthony> ... do we need to have them
07:19:24 <anthony> ... to publish the spec
07:19:28 <anthony> ... or is that nice to have thing?
07:19:45 <anthony> CL: What would they use? seems odd to publish
07:19:53 <anthony> ... then say use the old ones
07:19:56 <ChrisL> seems odd to make people look at 1.1FE for the Java bindings
07:20:21 <anthony> ... problem is we don't have a method to convert IDL to Java
07:20:31 <anthony> ... and that's a non trivial problem?
07:20:36 <anthony> CM: Don't have a method
07:20:45 <anthony> ... might be non trivial
07:20:54 <anthony> CL: Did someone have a compiler?
07:20:59 <anthony> CM: I thought someone did
07:21:05 <ChrisL> http://www.omg.org/technology/documents/formal/omg_idl_to_java_language_mapping.htm
07:21:12 <anthony> ... is that part of the XML spec? I don't know
07:21:32 <anthony> CL: That's the spec
07:21:34 <anthony> ... it's not a tool
07:21:47 <ChrisL> http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/idl/mapping/jidlMapping.html
07:21:56 <anthony> CL: However that's the too;
07:22:05 <anthony> s/too;/tool/
07:22:28 <anthony> CL: As to whether it would resemble anything that's similar to the old one I don't know
07:23:05 <anthony> ED: Someone should take an action to investigate how to do this
07:23:12 <anthony> ... or if it was a tool
07:23:21 <anthony> ... that we used to use
07:23:39 <anthony> CM: From the description of the table the types are mapping as I'd expect them too
07:23:50 <anthony> ... the main problem is making sure the output gets put in the right package
07:23:56 <anthony> ... that sort of thing can be manually fixed up
07:23:59 <anthony> ... if that doesn't work
07:25:10 <anthony> ... if the output of the IDLJ doesn't look appropriate then we should ask Jon how he did it
07:26:51 <anthony> DS: You will not be joining the next telcon correct?
07:26:53 <anthony> CM: Yes
07:30:48 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/TR/WD-SVGReq
07:31:34 <anthony> DS: Cameron thank you for all the help, you've been one of the main drivers of the standard
07:32:13 <Zakim> -heycam
07:33:28 <anthony> ... and we'll see you when you get back
07:36:12 <anthony> CL: Doug what's the latest status on the one you had publication denied for?
07:36:22 <anthony> DS: It was all Anthony
07:36:28 <anthony> AG: It was all me
07:36:34 <anthony> ... it's all fixed now
07:36:58 <anthony> DS: I had had an embed element for there for completeness sake
07:37:19 <anthony> ... but I was told to take it out because it wasn't valid
07:37:25 <anthony> ... what do you guys think about this?
07:37:31 <anthony> CL: Why does it have an embed in there?
07:37:42 <anthony> DS: It's like a test sort of
07:37:54 <anthony> ... having an example in the spec that shows them how to do it
07:38:02 <anthony> ... is a good help for implementing
07:38:13 <anthony> CL: It's more important to get it published
07:38:23 <anthony> ... you could make HTML and not XHTML
07:38:26 <anthony> ... that would be another option
07:38:52 <anthony> ... I think this can only be done for non-Rec specs
07:39:22 <anthony> DS: Don't think that is possible
07:39:30 <anthony> ... HTML 5 couldn't be published as HTML 5
07:39:46 <anthony> ... ok you'll have do the other option
07:40:12 <anthony> s/... ok you'll have to do the other option/CL: you'll have to do the other option/
07:40:25 <anthony> Topic: Publication
07:40:33 <anthony> ED: Filters spec we resolved to published
07:40:40 <anthony> ... the only one I've touched is the language one
07:40:53 <anthony> ... which include all the IDLs
07:40:58 <anthony> ... which has a lot of good fixes
07:41:25 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/publish/SVGFilter.html
07:41:41 <anthony> ED: The only thing left to do 
07:41:46 <anthony> ... is get the date link fixed
07:41:51 <anthony> ... and that's it
07:41:57 <anthony> ... wasn't sure what to put there
07:42:08 <anthony> ... because I wasn't sure date it would go out
07:42:18 <anthony> DS: Do we have everything else that we need?
07:42:27 <anthony> ED: All the links in the spec have been fixed as far as I know
07:42:44 <anthony> ... haven't check it for pub rules
07:43:32 <anthony> RESOLUTION: We will publish the Filters specification
07:46:48 <anthony> Topic: Using SVG Color in XSL
07:47:14 <anthony> CL: Anthony you replied to my email but thought I was proposing something for SVG
07:47:33 <anthony> ... but I was proposing something for XSL
07:47:55 <anthony> AG: Yes, I got that from your reply
07:48:22 <anthony> CL: The proposal for device-n channel has two functions
07:48:26 <anthony> ... one with an RGB fall back
07:48:34 <anthony> ... and another with a CYMK fallback
07:48:44 <anthony> s/CYMK/CMYK/
07:49:07 <anthony> ... the CMYK fallback is not in any known name space
07:49:12 <anthony> ... so it doesn't make sense
07:49:22 <anthony> ... nesting color spaces is one way to get around that
07:49:26 <anthony> ... and I plan to propose that
07:49:58 <anthony> ... At SVG Open I did a quick lighting talk on Vector Effects
07:50:03 <anthony> ... I think there was some interest
07:50:12 <anthony> DS: I think there was definitely interest
07:50:24 <anthony> ... the map people are particularly interested
07:51:48 <anthony> ... I look forward to seeing vector effects published but knowing it doesn't solve the problem of variable stroke width
07:51:57 <anthony> ... I know how to move forward on that
07:52:39 <anthony> ... I was thinking it would be a separate element
07:52:42 <anthony> ... I got that far
07:52:48 <anthony> CL: It should be something like gradients
07:53:03 <anthony> DS: Should be something more like a pattern essentially
07:54:04 <anthony> Topic: Issue tracking for comments
07:54:12 <anthony> ED: Is anyone assigned to this?
07:54:31 <anthony> CL: The issue is knowing if someone has taken it
07:54:48 <anthony> ... if someone sends a quick email saying I've spotted this and raised it
07:54:55 <anthony> ... or I've spotted this but it's not a problem
07:55:07 <anthony> DS: This would be good if it were easy to import stuff into tracker
07:55:43 <anthony> ... rather than manually copying stuff
07:55:56 <anthony> ... if we do this to tracker it will be more useful in the long term
07:56:11 <anthony> ... now that I have a bit of breathing room I will give it another try
08:03:34 <Zakim> -ChrisL
08:03:35 <Zakim> -ed
08:03:36 <Zakim> -anthony
08:03:44 <Zakim> -Shepazu
08:03:45 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()2:30AM has ended
08:03:47 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.588.aaaa, Shepazu, ed, +1.617.588.aabb, ChrisL, heycam, +1.617.588.aacc, anthony
08:04:01 <anthony> Topic: Test Suite generation update
08:04:17 <anthony> AG: Can generate manifest, and ref images
08:04:31 <anthony> ... harness script needs to have a few minor bugs fixed
08:04:40 <anthony> ... batik needs to be rechecked in as binary
08:04:54 <anthony> Zakim, bye
08:04:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
08:05:01 <anthony> RRSAgent, make minutes
08:05:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/10/14-svg-minutes.html anthony